posted
I just got this letter, with the header: "Don't read this if you're already feeling depressed." So obviously the writer's intention was to sadden me.
Here's the letter:
"This is what I see, for good or ill.
"No doubt you get fan mail from people who think your books are the greatest, best written, most interesting, etc. Songmaster was the best book I've ever read, but after careful consideration and reading most of your material, I see that your writing only follows one style, and is degenerative to the reader as a person. While providing a great deal of food for thought on the human mind or other topics, this food is of a negative nature, and has a negative effect on the reader.
"Your writing style in itself is good, but it is repetitive. After several books one realizes the style doesn't change, simply the story does. Don't feel alone in this category, as most authors are with you. You're writing would be immensely mproved if you read other authors and genres that you traditionally wouldn't, and then tried not to copy, but to experiment with variations that you normally don't use. Also, whenever writing a novel, bear in mind the effect it will have on the reader, and whether it will be positive or egative. "The pen is mightier than the sword", and very few people realize just how mighty it is. After finishng a manuscript, read it over, and you will find patterns in the language, and manner.
"Whether you accept or reject what I've written, and whether you respond or not, please do think it over."
I think it's so kind of him to seek to relieve me of the burden of unrelenting praise that he thinks I bear - obviously he has never visited Hatrack or Ornery.
And I'm surprised to learn that I write repetitively. I guess Sarah, Ender's Game, Saints, Pastwatch, Lost Boys, Magic Street, and Hart's Hope sound just alike. Who knew?
Oddly enough, nobody thinks it's a flaw that all John Irving books sound like they're written by John Irving, just as all Anne Tyler books sound as if she is their author. But I'm curious - if I don't write in my voice, whose voice should I write in?
Of course there's no merit in his complaint; what always baffled me about letters like this is: What in the world went through his mind before sending this letter? Whom did he think it would help? What did he think I would do (besides becoming depressed)? What does he think the relationship between writer and reader is?
And what in the world does my STYLE have to do with the pen being mightier than the sword?
I actually do listen to rational, fact-based criticism and learn from it. But this letter is a sad demonstration that you really ought not to venture into intellectual combat completely unarmed.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
What a crazy person. After reading your earlier works and your more recent books I can see a huge change in style. What I mean is look at the raw vivid violence in Wyrms and then look at the most recent Bean novels, they are much tamer, your writing has evolved into something different. I dont know which I like more, but they are different, this guy doesnt know what he is talking about.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
He probably teaches literature at a University. If not then he should. Sounds like he'd be a perfect fit. Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: Also, whenever writing a novel, bear in mind the effect it will have on the reader, and whether it will be positive or egative.
Well, I'll say, for one, that your books have always had an egative effect on me, Uncle O.
Also, I think when you die and get to heaven, they'll have a special room reserved for you with an electric fence specially brain-wave calibrated to keep out whining idiots.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Did you respond to the letter? If not, maybe you should find out what he meant by it, before you criticize it publicly on the forums.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
There are huge differences in the style and even the 'voice' of Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead and they are sequels!!! I have no idea how someone would think that any of your books are "degenerative to the reader as a person". If anything your writing is very inspiring as to what ordinary (or smarter than ordinary in a few cases) people can do.
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Illidan: Did you respond to the letter? If not, maybe you should find out what he meant by it, before you criticize it publicly on the forums.
I think the writer's intent was pretty clear, and I would probably react the same way OSC did. If some random stranger had the nerve to criticize me like that, I'd have no qualms about posting the letter online and mocking it.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Illidan: Did you respond to the letter? If not, maybe you should find out what he meant by it, before you criticize it publicly on the forums.
Yes and no. It would be like me going up to Tom Cruise and saying can't you play anything but a Tom Cruise charater. Me being an untrained actor with no movies under my belt has no place to say something like that. Either you like Mr. Card's style and you read his books or you don't and you don't read them!
Posts: 224 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
That's true, but I don't think it's a bad thing for an inexperienced person to criticize. At least he was polite about it, and it seems like he enjoyed the books anyway.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Did you respond to the letter? If not, maybe you should find out what he meant by it ...
How many chances should someone have to re-explain themselves before their audience is allowed to react, Illidan? Isn't it appropriate to take someone's correspondence at face value, if they went to all the trouble of writing and sending it to you? What hidden meanings are you expecting someone to find?
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I think that perhaps exposure to the internet has dulled some people's sense for what is "polite". Sure, this reader didn't curse or rant, but he was condescending and insulting, and went out of his way to say something that could only hurt. I don't see how that is polite, or how the world is brightened by this person's actions.
There are a lot of writers whose work I do not enjoy, but none of them have received letters from me saying so. Obviously, someone loves their work, or they wouldn't be making a living as a writer. Why should I step in and break up their feelings of success and praise just because their work didn't appeal to ME? I think they'd be just as happy pretending that I didn't exist, and that's FINE with me.
This reader is not OSC's employer. OSC is under no obligation to please him. Therefore, to go out of his way to make OSC feel like he has failed is pointlessly cruel.
posted
As odd as the letter might seem, it's actually an intersting experiment to see how established authors would read impresinating other established writers' styles.
OSC: Ender wasn't very hungry during breakfast.
OSC as William Gibson: Breakfast. Ender didn't eat.
posted
No need to be bothered by this, the guy sounds just plain weird.
Maybe he was shocked at some of your political views and set out to depress you.
I've NEVER read two books by the same author in which I didn't notice the similarity in style.
Just for laughs you should write him back thanking him for the advice, apoligise, and promise to try to do better in the future. It'd be funny to see his reaction. You might want to ask how many books he's gotten published first of course.
Posts: 94 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I'm surprised that the letter-writer listed Songmaster as his favorite OSC book. I would have expected someone with such a superficial attitude to pick one of the more popular ones, or maybe Pastwatch.
I wonder if the writer will ever know about this?
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
*ponders whether he should point out that posting the letter here potentially violates the writer's copyright in the letter, although a colorable argument might be made that fair use would apply*
quote:I see that your writing only follows one style, and is degenerative to the reader as a person.
I can't tell if this guy thinks the writing is "degenerative to the reader" because of the style or for some other reason he just didn't feel the need to discuss.
Either way, I'm betting OSC has received more than a few letters over the years asking why he doesn't write books the way he used to.
Just goes to show , no matter what tune you play, someone will ask you to change the station.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Oh, great, Omega. Now I have to wonder what it is about Pastwatch or my "more popular ones" that would make them appeal to people with a superficial attitude.
The depression gets worse and worse.
My point, by the way, was that writing such a letter at all was ill-mannered - especially when he openly declared that he expected the letter to depress me.
I HAVE tried replying to people like this with irony, but they only get more condescending and never realize I'm mocking them. The sport quickly wears thin.
It's not his lack of credentials by the way, or his age, or anything else. It's the sheer rudeness of it that bothers me. If he were a ten-year-old but had something intelligent and useful to say, I'd listen; and if he had a Ph.D. and had only empty twaddle like this to offer, I'd be just as bemused.
Like Puppy, I'm confused as to what I should have waited for before posting the letter here. I didn't identify him. No one will know who he is unless he chooses to claim credit himself. So I haven't embarrassed him publicly.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
You know, I think writers in general, and certainly myself in particular, are more hungry for approval than we like to admit. I mean, otherwise why try to get published? I want people to like my stuff. Since it is a product of myself, by extension people will like me. At least that is the hope. My other interests are catering/cake decorating, acting, and teaching. All of those things are only as successful as the audience allows. If I gain approval from people, I will succeed. If not, I fail.
I know that anytime one's personal creations are out in the open they are open to attack and the creator has to be on guard for that. The sad paradox here is that people who create and display their creations are vulnerable and easy to wound almost by definition. If we did not need the approval or support of the people who see our work, why would we put it on display? So it is those of us who most need positive feedback who are also most vulnerable to negative feedback. Sigh.
(I am not necessarily implying that OSC is vulnerable or lacks self-esteem. If that is how this post comes across I apologize. I am just talking about creative people in general; he is the only one who knows if it applies equally to him as much as to me.)
Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
If you send an email to someone, you must expect the possibility that it may become public. I think it's the same way with letters. It is to OSC, and he has every right to reproduce it if he wants. If that's not what the law says, then the law is stupid.
As for the letter itself... he bored me about halfway through so I started skimming. *looks at it again* It looks to me like he's a bitter reader... he had one world view, and your books caused him to have to THINK of a totally new viewpoint... and it's really stressed him out. It was obviously a negative experience for him. Thinking outside of the box is a little too much for him, so he writes you a letter urging you to put him back in his familiar space. (Now I'm thinking about that Taco Bell commercial, thinking outside the bun... I would love a soft taco... anyway...)
You shook him up!! Good for you.
And to counter his insanity... your books have had a positive effect on me. They have literally changed me for the better and helped prevent me from making wrong choices.
quote:But I'm curious - if I don't write in my voice, whose voice should I write in?
How about King? The next Ender book could find him handcuffed to the bed in an off-season hotel after bedroom games with Valentine (Oh wait--that's VC Andrews isn't it?) who is suddenly murdered by a clown with a very contagious flu-like virus and is later buried in the pet cemetary in hopes that she will return from the dead and drive them both to the prom in a car that has a (murderous) mind of its own.
After reading a few books by a particular author, if I don't like the style of writing, I just stop reading them. I can't imagine writing to the author to give advice on how to improve!
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
R. Ann Dryden, that was a terrific statement. Your post was a perfect example of that, and you certainly got MY approval for it.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
The critiscism that this man offers has no other objective, as stated by him, but to cause lamentation. So why then would he bother to offer his opinion. He shouldn't expect his letter to change the way you think or do anything, yet he offers advice. Through his blouviating he has proved nothing more than his own inadequacy to provide such 'advice'.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
R. Ann Dryden (may your tribe increase), you're right, of course - we writers do seek, not so much approval, as READERS. We want others to share the memories we've created.
And when we put it out for public view, we are wide open for criticism. If he had written this as a review, I wouldn't have said a thing about it. It's the personalness of it - the fact that he sent it to me directly, as if we had some kind of confidential relationship and he expected me to be deeply disappointed; and the condescending tone of it ... if he had written it in a published review (e.g., a blog) then his review, too, would be open for public criticism. In other words, he would be on the same playing field as me, with people who will like his writing and people who'll hate it.
And presumably with published criticism, you never admit to having the intention of HURTING the author, merely of informing the public.
But when it's a letter, there's no effort to inform the public. Only hurting the author remains as a goal.
The fact is, of course, this is very common in the sci-fi community. I with I had a buck for every eager fan at a sci-fi convention who runs up to me all excited to meet me, and says, "I loved everything of yours! Except Book X, of course," whereupon he or she wants to spend the next half hour explaining to me what was wrong with that one book.
Nowadays I just laugh. But for a long time, I thought: What do they expect me to do? Recall all the copies as defective and issue new pages to replace the bad ones?
But the fact is they don't expect me to do anything. They're just talking, saying whatever comes into their heads. It doesn't occur to them that I would take this PERSONALLY.
But this guy MEANT me to take it personally. That's why HIS letter got posted, and the others I get that are similarly negative don't.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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quote:If you send an email to someone, you must expect the possibility that it may become public. I think it's the same way with letters. It is to OSC, and he has every right to reproduce it if he wants. If that's not what the law says, then the law is stupid.
It may be stupid, but that's never affected the impact the law has.
The following are pretty much inpdisutable: 1.) The person who wrote the letter has a copyright in it, unless they copied all or most of it from another work or were writing this letter as part of their employment. Unless they wrote it as part of their employment for the U.S. government, someone owns the copyright.
2.) The person who owns the copyright has exclusive rights to control reproduction of, display of, creation of derivative works from, performance of, and distribution of the letter.
3.) People who do any of the above without either permission or protection of fair use exceptions are in violation of U.S. copyright law.
What's unclear is whether this person gave implicit permission (unlikely) or if posting for criticism in this manner is acceptable under the fair use doctrine (possible). Fair use is a fluid test based on four factors:
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
I could make compelling arguments either way on all 4 factors, I think.
But the real point of my mentioning it was to poke gentle fun at the seeming disconnect between copyright rules as they are enforced on the site, various statements about copyright that OSC has made, and posting this letter.
Edit: That being said, anyone who sends a letter or email that they don't wish to be made public is acting foolishly.
posted
I think this letter is kind of indicative of a cultural trend, though.
I notice it most in my generation, and thought it was just a young punk thing at first, but we've grown up a bit and we're still doing it. I think maybe it's a product of postmodernism in utero. You see, we really don't acknowledge any sort of authority; not the sort designated by rank and position and not the sort that is earned by expertise and experience. I saw this a lot in my art school cohort; the reaction to a bad critique isn't to examine the faults in your own work, but to attack the credibility of the professor. "He doesn't know anything anyway. I like my pots really thick on the bottom.... he just wants me to do it his way." You know, nevermind that he's been doing this for 35 years and has a doctorate. It's just his personal problems and character flaws that cause him to disagree with your naïve work.
It's kind of troubling to me. It's one thing when it's a legitimate doubt of shaky authority, but it's another when that incredulity spreads to how you perceive your elders. I think it may have a lot to do with the overwhelming mediocrity of the arts in the younger generations.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
You know, I can't honestly think of a book I don't like by OSC. But, I usually love books I read. All of them. EXCEPT the ones I'm forced to read. I didn't enjoy Herman Melville, for instance. I got stuck in a semester long class just on Melville once. That was horrendous. But since it's not the type of book I'd pick up on my own, I don't think it should count.
I finish and I like the books I choose to read. So I guess that means my opinion means nothing--you have to hate something to be a critic, right? I do suppose there have been books I haven't finished because I didn't like them, but often I'm just not in the right mood for them and I'll go back. Or not.
Gee, a post with no point. Blather on, Katarain.
Oh, I just remembered... There are plenty of short stories I don't like... But generally that's because I don't like short stories. I find them unsatisfying. Lazy writers not wanting to FINISH the story! In my creative writing class we had lots of people write stories with no ending, trying to be "artsy." I hate that.
posted
OSC as Tolkien: It was in quite a queer way that Ender blew up the buggers, but he blew them up just the same.
Posts: 340 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Whenever someone writes something like this you should post their name so we can trash them for you Mr. Card. I have a good ability to flame the weak, which this person obviously is.
I find these letters to be rude and pointless. Rude, because there is no reason to tell a person their faults unless you have been with them for so long you have seen the nature of their faults.
Pointless, because you are one of the most accomplished Science Fiction genre writers (not sure your place in all of writing so I cannot comment) and this person doesn't have any credentials to give you a proper review. This person isn't even trying to give you a review but to make you feel low to help them feel better about themselves. It shows lack of character.
However, if you ever need a boosting just let us know. This is a group of people who come to your site to discuss your works and your thoughts. That has to be fairly pleasing to you.
Posts: 10 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: But I'm curious - if I don't write in my voice, whose voice should I write in?
Write in the voice of the count from sesame street. That would be funny. "Ender woke up one morning- One, one morning bwahaha-"
Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I think the style he's referring to is a complete absence of literary pretense. One of the things I've always loved about OSC's prose is that it's clean, and fairly simple. Not a lot of long and complicated unnecessary passages about what the grass smelled like, or stuff like that.
I have a vague memory of hearing him, or someone, say that this type of writing allows the story to shine through. If the story is powerful, and true, there's no need to have a bunch of pretty, but extraneous, words obfuscating it.
I've noticed that OSC's stories require very little skimming. I can't tell you how many novels I read before I realized that I skim the long descriptive passages that clearly don't move the story along. It's nice when that's not necessary.
Oh yeah, the letter writer isn't very smart, as most of his criticisms reflect more on him than on OSC.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
That letter just cracked me up! Thanks for sharing it. It sounds like the writer reads quite a lot of literary criticism -- most likely of his own efforts -- and thought to try his hand at it.
That said, I have found that William Shakespeare's work is of a disturbingly distinctive Shakespearian style, which is degenerative to me. I mean, all that iambic pentameter! How hacky can you get!
Thanks for the laugh, good luck at kicking that depression thing.
posted
I like your books, OSC. And I'm fairly picky. I'm amenable to reading everything (fortunately enjoying it all), but fully approve of very little. I approve of yours.
Added: And I love Xenocide.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
aren't the words obfuscatory sesquipedalianism just the most wonderful example of irony in two words.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:I have a vague memory of hearing him, or someone, say that this type of writing allows the story to shine through. If the story is powerful, and true, there's no need to have a bunch of pretty, but extraneous, words obfuscating it.
I'm pretty sure that was Asimov, in his memoirs. He compared literature to windows. A stained glass window may be lovely and impressive, but it is hard to see through. Perfectly made clear glass that presents no distortions at all is very difficult to craft.
Or so says Asimov. I've never made glass, stained or otherwise. He was implying that his style was perfectly clear prose, with no distortions, which represents the pinacle of the writer's craft. After reading his memoir, I was also struck by Asimov's remarkable lack of humility. But there you have it.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: Oh, great, Omega. Now I have to wonder what it is about Pastwatch or my "more popular ones" that would make them appeal to people with a superficial attitude.
The depression gets worse and worse.
With all due respect, you seem to care too much about what others think of you.
Even given the natural human desire for visibility, this guy is one out of... how many people who've read your books?
You can't please everyone. You can hurt yourself trying to.
Personally, I've noticed your books getting more and more cerebral over time. There are exceptions, but that's what it seems like to me, generally speaking. Personally, I prefer books where the emotions come out and hit me. Songmaster. Homebody. The stories in Unaccompanied Sonata. It's why I like the original Ender's Game better than the novel (though I love the novel).
But I would never dare try and tell you how you should write. I'm amazed at the chutzpah of the person who sent you that letter.
You know what they say about opinions. Everyone has one, etc. Why not just chalk it up to one person who doesn't get your writing? You know he can't be the only one, and you still have us. Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Could have been Asimov, I just read one of his short story collection, which contained a fairly long foreword.
I agree that Asimov thought fairly highly of himself, but I disagree with him on his prose. I've had to skim some passages of his stuff.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: That letter just cracked me up! Thanks for sharing it. It sounds like the writer reads quite a lot of literary criticism -- most likely of his own efforts -- and thought to try his hand at it.
That said, I have found that William Shakespeare's work is of a disturbingly distinctive Shakespearian style, which is degenerative to me. I mean, all that iambic pentameter! How hacky can you get!
Thanks for the laugh, good luck at kicking that depression thing.
quote: "...You're writing would be immensely mproved..."
1. I think the fact that this person did not bother to even spell-check their letter is offending. If they truly intended to supply positive criticism, it would help to communicate it in a mature way.
2. How improved can you get? I think Mr. Card's style has been working superbly for him so far, considering his books still make it to the bestseller lists. But I suppose some people want all books they read to sound as if they are by a favorite author. I'll call Stephen King right up and tell him to read Ender's Game.
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: I would have expected someone with such a superficial attitude to pick one of the more popular ones, or maybe Pastwatch.
quote: Oh, great, Omega. Now I have to wonder what it is about Pastwatch or my "more popular ones" that would make them appeal to people with a superficial attitude.
That was my first reaction as well... since Pastwatch in nearly my favorite book of OSC's, I was thinking "so what does this say about me?"
OSC - I think it is wonderful that you are handling all these comments with such a great sense of humor. You never cease to make me with your posts..
Farmgirl
(p.s. - did you happen to sign a book for me today that someone else brought to you on my behalf? Oh wait -- maybe that's later tonight... *goes to check signing tour schedule*.... I'm so anxious to get it)
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Yeah, Lisa. It really is me. And I think we discussed OCS and his "Women of Genesis" series on our other listserv. Too bad you can't meet up with the rest of us on Sunday. Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: Yeah, Lisa. It really is me. And I think we discussed OCS and his "Women of Genesis" series on our other listserv. Too bad you can't meet up with the rest of us on Sunday.
I think it'd take me too long to get there. <grin>
Pity there's no one else in Chicago...
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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*looks at it again* It looks to me like he's a bitter reader... he had one world view, and your books caused him to have to THINK of a totally new viewpoint... and it's really stressed him out. It was obviously a negative experience for him. Thinking outside of the box is a little too much for him, so he writes you a letter urging you to put him back in his familiar space. (Now I'm thinking about that Taco Bell commercial, thinking outside the bun... I would love a soft taco... anyway...)
