posted
Ender spent a good number years wandering around the universe, so more likely bean will show up when ender is like 25ish, bean being similar aged...wait nevermind isn't bean like 19?
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posted
Bean I believe was around 16 years old in Giant (or at least that's what wikipedia says). I haven't read Giant recently so I don't really know for certain.
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quote:Originally posted by cuckooover: Bean I believe was around 16 years old in Giant (or at least that's what wikipedia says). I haven't read Giant recently so I don't really know for certain.
Bean wasn't quite sure of his age (no record of his birth), but he puts it at around 16 in Giant.
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quote:Originally posted by cuckooover: I understand that this new book is going to include both Ender AND Bean, but I don't really see how.
Actually, there's supposed to be one book about Ender and Bean's lost baby, and one about Bean's offspring still on the ship eventually appearing post-CotM after Ender is dead. So far, there's no evidence the two of them will be physically meeting again in either of the planned books.
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posted
I would be very surprised if Bean appeared at all. Unless Card decides to use my "giant, pulsating brain filling the interior of the spaceship, over which his freaky mutant children crawl and frolic" idea. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by cuckooover: I understand that this new book is going to include both Ender AND Bean, but I don't really see how. I mean, is Bean just going to show up 3000 years later in the future and say "Hey Ender old buddy, let's go on an adventure like the good old times! Oh, and I brought my genetically freaky children with me also." I'd hate to say it but this whole scenario seems kinda... far-fetched or at least stretching the story thin for stretchings sake.
It's actually quite concevable that they would both meet in the future. Remember that Card's Speaker For The Dead takes place 3000 years after Ender's Game, but this book is not going to be during that era. This is going to take place around the time Ender begins to travel after writing The Hive Queen and the Hegemon. Sense Randi and Bean both go in to space around the same time, they could both stay within the same time. I'd say that the only coincidence would be that all three of them end up on the same planet, or that Bean ends up on a planet at all. Especially sense Ender does spend a conciderable amount of time on his own planet. Unless that is, they all end up on Ender's planet.
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posted
Is it possible for Petra to leave earth after Peter dies to meet up with an aged bean and their babies all grown up? It never stated that she died on earth and I think the tragedy of her leaving Bean and moving on to Peter could be not the final end. Her love and devotion for Bean could last into her old age where they meet on the colony after she takes a FTL trip and he grows old (of course there's a cure for his growth. just remove the petuitary gland or something easier than recoding his DNA)
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posted
Keep in mind that in the new books, it is the Ender story line that meets up with the Bean story line, and not Ender meeting Bean. If you had read the whole thread, or at least the first part of it, you would know that Bean will be dead when the Ender characters (but not Ender) meet Bean's children.
I suspect Bean's kids will meet new Peter, keeping in mind that new Peter is carrying the soul of old Ender. I further suspect that Peter will bring them all back to Lusitania where they will prefect the means of correcting the flaws in Anton's Key. Keep in mind that Bean's kids, while the first signs of gigantism will be showing, are still young enough to be saved.
As for old Petra meeting old Bean, that is not going to happen; wonderful thought though it is. Bean at best only had a few years to live even in space. I give him 5 to 7 years at the absolute most; and that is being extremely optimistic; 3 to 4 years is probably pushing it. But that would have been enough time for him to educate his own kids and teach them how to run the ship, and to further grant them access to his, by then, substantial fortune.
That is the story I'm most interested in, but I'm not sure a full novel could be found there. But a short story of Bean and his kid in flight, and how Bean and his kid developed, and finally, how Bean met his end as he most surely did. That is a story that I am desperate to hear.
Still Bean's kids meeting New Peter will be interesting too. I also suspect the Driscolata's will play a role in that story.
Just a thought. Steve/bluewizard
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posted
Note: I am .:{121}:.Scooter[SGT] with another name.
quote:Originally posted by BlueWizard: Keep in mind that in the new books, it is the Ender story line that meets up with the Bean story line, and not Ender meeting Bean. If you had read the whole thread, or at least the first part of it, you would know that Bean will be dead when the Ender characters (but not Ender) meet Bean's children.
That is quite funny because I actually did read Card's post and just now reread it. The story of which you speak will be Shadows in Flight. This thread is NOT about the book that will tie together the Ender story line and the Bean story line. If you had read the first part of it, you would know that this thread is about people's opinion on the name of the new novel Card has decided to write. It takes place "before he met Jane, and WAY before Speaker for the Dead" according to Card, and is about Ender meeting Bean's child, raised by Randi. So therefore it is quite possible that Bean and his children could tie in with this story because he in fact NOT dead, as he leaves Earth around the same time that Randi does.
In the future read what the thread is about before you accuse others of not doing so.
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posted
Correct me if im wrong, but isn't Bean supposed to be making an indefinite space flight while waiting for a cure. I don't see how he could meet with young Ender in this book; Bean is not making random, unscheduled stops at colony worlds. I think any encounter with Bean or his children(excluding the one with Randi) will have to wait for the other book. As for when Bean's children do meet up with the Ender characters such as new Peter, it seems that curing them would be a simple part of the story. The scientists on Lusitania are already good at modifying virus's, so couldn't they do the same thing they did with the Descolada? Just go outside and get a cure. Or Something... Hopefully we will also get a conclusion to the Descoladores problem. Actually I'm sure OSC will continue on that subject, after all, it's pretty important. Maybe Bean's children will join forces with the Ender characters and find a way to communicate with the descoladores. They are surely going to be Genius's after all.
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posted
There are actually two books being discussed. Though the original topic was a name for the 'young Ender meets the one obscure Beanie Baby thought to be the son of Achilles'( likely 'Ender in Exile'). It has morphed into a discussion of the names and themes for both the above book and the book tentatively called 'Shadows in Flight' in which, as I said, the Bean and Ender story lines cross in the very distant future.
Though, admittedly, with +1300 posts in 27 pages, you might not know that.
And, I was responding to recent assertions that Petra would meet Bean or the Beanie Babies. Plus if you read the most recent pages, there was speculation of the Bean and Ender story lines connecting. I was merely trying to put those recent speculations into perspective.
But in earlier discussion of "Shadows in Flight" in this same thread, it has been established that when the Ender and Bean story lines cross again, Bean will be gone. Which I will find very sad indeed if no accounting of Bean's death is given.
Confusing to have the two separate stories discussed in the same thread.
Though I am pretty sure the book titles have been decided on long ago. I think 'Ender in Exile' and 'Shadows in Flight' have a nice symmetry to them; both are 'something' IN 'something', and both reflect the theme of the stories nicely.
quote:Originally posted by mooseontheloose: Correct me if im wrong, but isn't Bean supposed to be making an indefinite space flight while waiting for a cure. I don't see how he could meet with young Ender in this book; Bean is not making random, unscheduled stops at colony worlds. I think any encounter with Bean or his children(excluding the one with Randi) will have to wait for the other book.
An author can change any story to be what he or she wants. Since it is possible that they can meet given the ending of Shadow of the Giant, Card can write it so that Bean, Ender, and Randi all come together.
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posted
Yes, but I think more likely the confusion is coming from the fact that two separate books are being discussed.
In one book, young Ender meet on of Bean's children in the form of the boy who is thought to be the son of Achilles.
In the other books MANY years in the distant future, the children of Bean meet the characters for the end of the Ender Sage. In other words, the Beanie Babies meet New Peter.
There is a 'Bean' connection in both stories, though his children, but Bean himself appears in neither. Likely in the first books, Bean and his other kids are on their space voyage.
In the second book, the first book is long over, and Bean is dead. Only his children remain, and then only because of prolonged Near Lightspeed Space Travel.
Still, as Bean and the Beanie Babies travel through space, they can't continue on for infinity. At some point they may need to stop here and there for various reasons, but two or three days in orbit around a planet is not going to kill Bean, and it allows them to take on supplies, update their libraries, and make repairs and upgrades.
Keep in mind that the Time Dilation is massive. I think Ender lives approximately 12 year in apparent time, while planet-side time spans 3,000 years. In 3,000 years, technology advances tremendously. At some point, Bean's most advanced ship is going to look like a quaint old antique. So, Bean and his kids might be able to go several years without resupplying food, but when they did stop for supplies, planet-side technology would have made astronomical advances. Some of those advances may have been helpful to the ship. And, they would certainly want to update their bank of technological information to see what advances there had been in genetics as well as general technology. In short, I don't think they were quite as isolated and many people speculate they were.
I'm assuming that Jane is managing Bean's wealth, and that in MANY years of earth-time, his fortune grows substantially. It likely grows very much in proportion to how much Ender's wealth grows. So, at each stop Bean would discover that his fortune had grown, and at some point, he may have traded his outdated ship for a more modern one just as (to some extent) Ender did.
My point is, there are necessary reasons for Bean and the Babies to stop now and then. I think those stops have the potential for exciting stories in themselves, and would love to hear them.
So, in one story Ender meets the one Beanie Baby they never found.
Many centuries later, in the other books, New Peter meet the remaining Beanie Babies. Which also seems like an exciting story as long as it contains a fair and reasonable account of Bean's life and death.
posted
i've a question. why do authors tend to go back beyond their first book in the series? too many 'prequals' over-crowd the complex stories they've already told - which is why i've not gone back to read more about the enderverse beyond 'children of the mind' and why i've not bothered with the 'shinara' books past the 'scions of shinara'. do authors really lack new story ideas that they have to go back? i've always thought that a good author wouldn't rehash their serials with over-crowding. i could be wrong, however, since i've not read any of the 'prequals'.
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quote:Originally posted by Constipatron: i've a question. why do authors tend to go back beyond their first book in the series? too many 'prequals' over-crowd the complex stories they've already told
cause they can. and plus they get more money, which is a plesent side effect
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quote:Still, as Bean and the Beanie Babies travel through space, they can't continue on for infinity. At some point they may need to stop here and there for various reasons, but two or three days in orbit around a planet is not going to kill Bean, and it allows them to take on supplies, update their libraries, and make repairs and upgrades.
Keep in mind that the Time Dilation is massive. I think Ender lives approximately 12 year in apparent time, while planet-side time spans 3,000 years. In 3,000 years, technology advances tremendously. At some point, Bean's most advanced ship is going to look like a quaint old antique. So, Bean and his kids might be able to go several years without resupplying food, but when they did stop for supplies, planet-side technology would have made astronomical advances. Some of those advances may have been helpful to the ship. And, they would certainly want to update their bank of technological information to see what advances there had been in genetics as well as general technology. In short, I don't think they were quite as isolated and many people speculate they were.
I'm assuming that Jane is managing Bean's wealth, and that in MANY years of earth-time, his fortune grows substantially. It likely grows very much in proportion to how much Ender's wealth grows. So, at each stop Bean would discover that his fortune had grown, and at some point, he may have traded his outdated ship for a more modern one just as (to some extent) Ender did.
My point is, there are necessary reasons for Bean and the Babies to stop now and then. I think those stops have the potential for exciting stories in themselves, and would love to hear them. [/QB]
So you say that they must make stops. I agree, in order to meet up with Ribeiras during their lifetime, the "beanie babies" as you so call them, would have to make several stops. In fact, it would be quite difficult for them to meet up with the Riberias so close to Ender's arrival without almost following Ender's trail. Just one jump from one planet to another could be 100 years which would easily put the Ribeiras in their grave before he arrived. This is just one of those thing authors have to do to make a story. You have to do something that's against all the odds and say This is what happened. What I ask is if they must make stops to set up their story to fit in time, why couldn't their first stop be that of Ender's world? In fact, if the word were to reach Bean that his last child was on that planet, wouldn't he most certianly go to that planet?
quote:Originally posted by Constipatron: i've a question. why do authors tend to go back beyond their first book in the series? too many 'prequals' over-crowd the complex stories they've already told - which is why i've not gone back to read more about the enderverse beyond 'children of the mind' and why i've not bothered with the 'shinara' books past the 'scions of shinara'. do authors really lack new story ideas that they have to go back? i've always thought that a good author wouldn't rehash their serials with over-crowding. i could be wrong, however, since i've not read any of the 'prequals'.
I think it is you who is a minority. Authors don't write prequals because they lack imagination. They do it because many people, including the author, fall in love with the story and want to hear more. I myself don't care if it's a sequal or a prequal, I love to read stories from the Enderverse. Prequals and sequals are just ways to add stories. They both have their perks as well. Sequals tell you what happens next, but Prequals tell you how it got to be that way.
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posted
lol!!! this thread is too funny... those titles put one after another sound like porn series... too funny.
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Still, as Bean and the Beanie Babies travel through space, they can't continue on for infinity. At some point they may need to stop here and there for various reasons, but two or three days in orbit around a planet is not going to kill Bean, and it allows them to take on supplies, update their libraries, and make repairs and upgrades.
Josh Cooper:
So you say that they must make stops. I agree, in order to meet up with Ribeiras during their lifetime, the "beanie babies" as you so call them, would have to make several stops. In fact, it would be quite difficult for them to meet up with the Riberias so close to Ender's arrival without almost following Ender's trail.
I see your points, but it's not necessarily true. Keep in mind that Ender and Valentine stop for months at a time on various planets. They don't just stop for Ender to do a Speaking, they also stop so Valentine can research her new book. Those month or months planet sided add up to tremendous amounts of space travel by Bean and his kids.
Bean and his kids on the other hand, would only stop briefly for necessary resupplies, and likely by the time of the first stop, Bean would be unable to go planet side because he couldn't handle the gravity. That would mean the 'Beanie Babies' would have to go planet side and negotiate for upgrades and resupplies. I think it would be wonderfully interesting stories to hear how the 'Beanie Babies' handled the planet side jaunts.
Now, as to bringing together New Peter and Bean's kids, they (Bean's kids) don't necessarily have to follow Ender through space and time, and the age of planet side people really means nothing. Keep in mind that the Ribeiras were countless generations unborn when Bean and the Beanie Babies set off on their travels.
Now back to New Peter and Bean's kids coming together, New Peter has faster than light speed travel at his finger tips. He is not bound by Time Dilation in his travels. It's possible that they may stubble across each other on another planet by accident. It's possible the news of the genetic engineering on the planet Lusitania might reach their ears. It's possible Jane will recall a distant memory of Bean and realize that their discoveries may be the key to curing the Beanie Babies if they can be found. It is possible that the Beanie Babies will visit the planet Path, and discover the existence of Jane and New Peter and thereby discover their base of operation is Lusitania. There are any number of ways that these characters can come together.
Even if the Beanie Babies travels mirror the realtime of Ender, they will still only be 12 or 13 years old when they finally meet New Peter. Still plenty of time to save them.
Also, keep in mind that they are not wandering the entire universe, there are 100 known planets in the 'federation' and a few unincorporated planets that have not been made members yet. So, rather than wander aimlessly through space, it would seem logical for Bean and his kids to contain their travels to the known 100 worlds and a few outlying territories.
I think this (Shadow in Flight) will be an incredibly fascinating book. I've always wondered about the aftermath of the Ender Sage and the Fate of Bean in flight with his kids.
In the Adventures of New Peter, I wonder if Peter will run afoul of Star Congress. Suddenly a new and powerful weapon appears on the horizon. Peter having and controlling Faster than Light travel would be viewed as a politically dangerous thing by Congress. Peter did after all single handedly defeat a large fleet of Starcraft.
What of Jane, will Star Congress try to control her? Will the continue to threaten her? How will they react to the knowledge that the Buggers are not only alive, but are flourishing and expanding? Will they feel that New Peter with faster than light travel AND in league with the Buggers are a massive threat to Star Congress?
Will Jane have sufficient power to expand Faster Than Light Travel (FTLT) into a commercial enterprise, and who will control that commercial enterprise? Or, will FtLT be limited to a few elite members of society, and will Congress and Business fight to see who controls and managers that process? So, many unanswered questions.
As to Bean and his kids in their travels; I think Bean having to deal with a group of extremely intelligent, precocious and mischief-making kids as extremely funny. And I think Bean's later life is extremely and painfully heartbreaking.
And I think of the sadness when their father finally dies and the Beanie Babies have to make it on their own. How much of their fate will their father have told them? Will it matter after so many many centuries? Though I also think that anyone foolish enough to think they can pull one over on the Beanie Babies is in for a very rude (but hilarious) awakening. I see tremendous story potential in The Flight of the Beanie Babies, and ache to hear the story of Bean's final demise. Even as I type this I am overwhelmed with sadness at the thought of Bean's life and his ultimate untimely end.
As interesting as it will be for Ender to meet the presumed son of Achilles, it is really the meeting of New Peter and Bean's kids that interests me.
But I also long for the story of Bean in flight, I see so much potential for both humor and pathos in that story.
posted
I will add one addition to Josh Cooper's comment, which I think addresses his central point.
Because Time Dilation is so massive, the odds of 'Ender Time' and 'Bean Time' being synchronized at the end is extremely thin. It is certainly possible, but the odd against that exact synchronization of time are astronomical. That is a point I will concede.
But, if Bean stopped periodically to allow his kids planet access and access to something approximating a normal life, and those planet side times were roughly equal to Ender's planet side times, it might be possible for Bean's kids and New Peter to meet at some point in time.
posted
Well... It is Beans' baby... So why dont you call it... Enders' Giant or something... That would tie everything together right? Posts: 93 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Having found the light of Card at the age of 10 in 1993. I am so exited to have even this late oportunity to coment on the most definging liturature of my life. I have not taken the time to read all of the posts .
I have just finished reading enders game and all shadow books again. just starting speaker for the dead i have been thinking hard about Randy and bean's missing son:
Achilles Shadow : An Ender Cronical
Ender Or Achilles
highlighing the decsion that randys baby bean will have to make about what randy is brain washing him into compaired to what he will read and find out, being as smart and observent as he is.
The above is mainly an announcement for the new Ender's Game & Ender's Shadow comics, but near the end of the article it mentions the new Ender novel!!!
Yes! I'm looking forward to this a ton! I know what I want for Christmas!
posted
Holy Crap! That just made my day! Still, I can't help but be a bit sorry that it's not "Shadows in Flight" coming out this year instead. We've been waiting for that one longer, and I'm much more interested in a post-CotM story, and this probably means that we'll have to wait another 3-4 years for it. Still, this really makes me happy. Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I've never posted here before, and I know this topic is way in the past for some of you, but I'm excited about a new Ender novel. I wanted to add my suggestion of Ender: At Shadows Edge.
I was kinda excited about the lost child meeting up with Bean and his children in the future.
However, Mr. Card, I wouldn't mind to see Bean and his children come running to a certain planet inhabitting a 4th gene manipulating species in order to possibly find a cure, or battle a very intelligent enemy.
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quote:Originally posted by All4Nothing: I've never posted here before, and I know this topic is way in the past for some of you, but I'm excited about a new Ender novel. I wanted to add my suggestion of Ender: At Shadows Edge.
That's not bad.
Welcome to Hatrack, by the way.
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posted
New member, just read the beginning and end of the thread. My brother and I have been speculating about a new story ever since Shadow of the Giant came out. I have some ideas about Shadows in Flight.
Our old theory now has at least one hole from what has been revealed here, but I think it bears watching. Volescu is sent out on a colony ship and Graff makes some offhand comment to the effect of "What harm can he do there?" I think Volescu is somehow the origin of the Descoladores.
Think about it. A totally amoral and brilliant scientist arrives on a backwater world decades after most of those who hate him have died, and they're lightyears away anyhow. Out of sight, out of mind, certain powerful interests provide Volescu with resources to continue his genetic study. Centuries later, the fruit of this research in the hands of the government eventually ends up in a world of people suspiciously like Bean--geniuses hobbled by a genetic defect. In the interim, either Volescu himself or some later evil scientist sharing his (non-)ideals devises new experiments and eventually a way off planet. That individual certainly would have appropriated substantial resources, and possibly a group of like-minded people. They disappear into uncharted space, "off-the-grid" if you will. Give that unrepentant and amoral philosophy, coupled with scientific genius, thousands of years to flourish, totally cutoff and unknown from the rest of human society, and voila...descoladores who use entire planets and ecosysytems for their experiments.
I used to think it was also related to Bean's lost kid, son of Randi. They would hook up somehow and warped genius child would direct the larger scheme behind settling a new planet to escape the evil government powers his mother told him about, using Volescu for his own ends. That possibly extends to a plan to eventually use the viruses to overthrow the rest of humanity. Maybe that is incorrect if the Ender in Exile storyline fully resolves evil Bean child, but there could easily be at least an indirect connection millenia later.
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Except that the descolada existed on Lusitania for many thousands of years before Volescu was born.
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other people have suggested that idea- that Volescu was responsible for the Descaladores. But that would mean that after x amount of time they release the descolada onto Lusitania. And we know that the descolada took a long time to bring about that much change in Lusitania- their best bet for recent is within the past 100,000 years. The descaladores are their own species.
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And Maybe, that was a very interesting idea even with Volescu not being a possible candidate. It does bring up a question for me:
If Bean's child escapes that first colony before Ender leaves isn't it possible for him to be the very evil genius that creates the descoladores? He is being raised to believe he is Achilles heir and told a nice little lie about how Achille was. Couldn't it be possible that he also has access to all of Volescu's genetic research/findings?
Oh yea, and is it just me or do I remember that first colony being named "Shakespeare"?
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quote:Originally posted by All4Nothing: Noemon, thank you for the welcome! If Bean's child escapes that first colony before Ender leaves isn't it possible for him to be the very evil genius that creates the descoladores? ...Oh yea, and is it just me or do I remember that first colony being named "Shakespeare"?
Shawshank's response explains why that is not a viable theory. And yes, the first colony was named "Shakespeare," but I'm pretty sure the planet was called a different name at some point in the series.
quote:Originally posted by T:man: bean shouldnt die please some one save him
Alas, man is mortal. We all must die eventually. Welcome to Hatrack, T:man and All4Nothing!
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quote:Originally posted by All4Nothing: Noemon, thank you for the welcome! If Bean's child escapes that first colony before Ender leaves isn't it possible for him to be the very evil genius that creates the descoladores? ...Oh yea, and is it just me or do I remember that first colony being named "Shakespeare"?
Shawshank's response explains why that is not a viable theory. And yes, the first colony was named "Shakespeare," but I'm pretty sure the planet was called a different name at some point in the series.
quote:Originally posted by T:man: bean shouldnt die please some one save him
Alas, man is mortal. We all must die eventually. Welcome to Hatrack, T:man and All4Nothing!
Good point Shawshank! The amount of time it would take a planet to make a change like that would offset the time dialation of even Bean's children.....I think....I'm not good with this stuff.
I think the planet was called another name to CRash.....the most recent book I read was "Shadow of the Giant" and that's where I saw "Shakespeare" as the name....I believe there may be a contradiction and that's why I mentioned it. A more detail oriented person than I may know.
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I believe the first colony world was referred to as "Rov". I don't think it's a contradiction though. The planet is "Rov" and the settlement is "Shakespeare".
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Ah yes, that sounds right. Thanks neo, I believe that was just what my mind was bugging me about.
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thx for welcome i thought that bean was sent to space so he could live without the effects of gravity therfore he could live in space indefinetely
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Gravity wouldn't be what killed him, it would be his sheer mass. His heart not being able to provide for his body would kill him, that's blood pressure, not gravity.
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Right Nick, Bean was already a giant when he left. He was already feeling the effects of being so large, though he was certainly still able to function.
So, my impression is that space flight and the corresponding lack of gravity, only bought him a few extra years at best. I'm guessing on earth, he had maybe two to three years at the most. In space fight, he would have had perhaps 5 to 6 years at the most.
What that 5 to 6 years translates to in subjective earth time depends on how close to light speed he was traveling. It seems his ship was one of the most advanced of it's time. Though, I'm sure earth and colony technology would rapidly surpass it.
While not constantly in space flight, in 'The Investment councilor', Ender is subjectively age 20 and Valentine is roughly age 25, yet, it is about 500 years in the future. When we see Ender again, it is 3,000 years in the future, and I'm guessing Ender is about 30.
Just as a guess, in the moment, I would say that 5 years of Bean's space flight might have bought him a few hundred years of earth's advancement. The question is, after a few hundred years, would anyone left on earth remember who Bean was, and more importantly, where he was and why?
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your heart creates more blood every second so the only reason he would die is if his heart diddnt have the strength to pump all the blood around his body your heart wouldnt need to be strong in space because of the null-g he might die while excersizing so his bones dont melt by the way he only had 6 months to live in gravity
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