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Why do we have a God(s)? Is he a person living amongst us? OR is he a celestial being who lives within the stars? Are we God's arms and legs, eyes,nose,mouth,ears etc,etc? If we are, why is there so much violence and blood shed? Why can't people get along with one another? Would God want it this way? How may God's are there? Has God been around forever? If he created the human race as a perfect image of himself, why are people continuously dying, and people killing one another, why are people hungry and sick? If we were all made in the image of him, does that mean is not as perfect as he seems? Do we only believe in God, do only have something to believe in? Could someone suply me with answers?
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Why don't we just agree that we don't have enough information today to answer these questions without disputing. We can't answer these questions today because we have no proof of it either way. Only assumptions. Then we draw religion into this...
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These are my personal answers, in abreviated form.
We have a God, because, without some sort of creator, universal plan, destination, or goal, life would not exist, nor have a porpose.
God is not confined to anything that can trully be descibed by mankind. Is he living amoung us? Yes, in the way that the air is amoung us, in that God is everywhere.
Does he live in the stars? It is not as simple of that, for God exists in all the universe, heaven as we would call it, and all other places as well.
In this physical plane we have freedom of choice. Sometimes, mankind chooses poorly. There are also great tests for evey individual, some of us must suceed despite a flood, a tornado, a birth defect, but the overcoming such tests will be rewarded in the life to come.
God has existed before existence itself. For him, there is no begining, no end.
He created man in his spiratial image, but not with perfection.
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quote:overcoming such tests will be rewarded in the life to come.
I'm going to assume that you are Mormon (Adi), because a third of the poeple here are ( ). <grin> Actually I'm assuming you are since what you said sounds ... Mormon <grin>. Anyways I don't agree with the above quote. I don't think that it's so much that we are rewarded at a future date but that we are rewarded with our intelectual/emotion/spirtual growth. Just a thought.
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I have trouble believing in God. The concept of a personal God makes no sense to me in light of how the world is. But if there is no God then there does not mean there is no purpose to life. What if God was the connections people make to each other? Or the feeling behind music? Or what makes language makes sense? Who knows what I believe? I just can't reconsile... cannot cope... Cannot believe that God can be omnipotent and just let things be like this.... So I don't believe in God in some religious sense... it's difficult to explain.
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Lee, I personally wouldn't bring that much religion into a forum like this because everyone has different opinions and there is no real answer. its one of those threads where nothing gets accomplished except for heated disputes over it
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Well that's true Salaam, when the topic of the thread is Questions about GOD then you pretty much have to bring in your personal beliefs (i.e. religion). At Hatrack we tend to be much more tolerant than the rest of the world.
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I agree with the jedi who posted above, (adi Galiia) There is a god because there's no other way for ppl to be. If you consider evolution, go look up the human genome project, they've disproved evolution on a racial basis. We'll never grow another thumb or gills or any other such science-fiction, as fun as that could be.
Same thing goes for the big bang, it's absurd, are we just waiting for a gib gnab? so the universe will start over.
I'm not going to proselyte, i just wanted the facts stated. If you're wondering about god, ask him but do it with a heart willing to listen for the answer or you're going to hear nothing.
And i know someone's thinking it so i'll just point out that god lets bad things happen because we probably caused them and what would we learn if he fixed everything for us? (Bruce almighty's a good movie, go see it)
Brock ~around the survivors, a perimeter create.
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Sorry, Brock, but I'm afraid your "facts" aren't exactly accurate. The Human Genome Project has not, in fact, disproven evolution. *laugh*
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Belief in something is actually a basic human need. There is a specific order; like food, clothing, shelter, belief, and a social construct of some sort. Religion happens to fill the need of belief very well for many people. Others believe in different Gods, or the belief that there is no God, or even just simply Science. The point is not so much what you believe in, but that you have faith in something. People blasted the movie Dogma for its supposed anti-Catholic views, which are harbored by many who are raised Catholic as the writer / director Kevin Smith was. However, he hit this idea of faith above belief on the head, and expressed it openly in the movie.
Religion happens to be the largest business in the World. It runs like a business, which is one of the problems I have with it. I do not know if God exists. When I was younger, I was quite avid in my belief of God. But, I lost faith regardless of my belief in God, and have found other beliefs with a more promising faith for myself. The point is, that one needs to find their own faith in something, whether it is God or not.
Galiia did have things right, however I am not so sure about you Brock. Do not take offense to my comments on your post please, but I believe you have some things out of place. As far as the Human Genome process, we all did come from what is known as the Mitochondrial Eve, the first evolution from a certain form of Being into Human Beings. All races diverged from this one being as they spread through the World, adapting to their habitats as they settled. The thought that all races come from different species of being, was one of the reasons rascism evolved.
In fact, the differences in technology have more to do with the ability of some areas to cultivate various foods, moving from gathering and hunting to settling down and farming. This allowed more time for thinking and innovation, thus allowing the more technologically advanced societies to take over what they deemed as "Savages."
As for thumbs, people are born with two sets of thumbs far more often than you would think. The second set of thumbs is removed and generally forms toward the inside of the wrist, on the same plane as the other fingers, in between the wrist and more common thumb. I even know someone who has two very subtle stumps from this procedure. I am not sure whether the thumbs are function, but I do not think they are since any bone in them is probably not connected to the skeletal structure.
As for the Big Bang, it has been theorized to some fragment of a second, and Science can not determine what happened prior. I believe the Catholic Church has adopted the view of the Big Bang, as Science has, by putting God as the creator of the Big Bang and thus everything to follow.
Asking God whether he is real may be an ideal solution to finding faith. If there is a need for faith in God in you, he will answer you. Whether it is a God, the God, or just the need for faith answering, it is a good thing. However, do not disregard things like evolution and the Big Bang simply because you found faith in something that is different or even says that the faith of such things is wrong. Learn all you can, about everything you can, regardless of your faith.
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Hobbes, you're right. To present life and the spirit as simply as I did was wrong. I agree that spiritual, and even intellectual growth is a Huge reward in this life, and no doubt there is much more in regards to rewards than I can think of at the moment. By the way, I'm not Mormon, and my knowledge of the Mormon religion is limited to interaction with this site, and a former Mormon boyfriend.
Another thing, I believe Science and Religion are in harmony. As for evellution, well, if, and only if it does aply to humans, we must remember that the chances of a bipedal, intelligent, lifeforms with a bility's to learn, create, and recognize a higher being could have spontaneously been born is low... Unless some sort of greater planner was involved. Same can be said for the universe. Big bang theory or not, there had to be some sort of Catalist in order for the universe to exist. Matter does not spring from empty space. Perhaps, in the future, there wil be more answers, and less of this dangerous fighting amoungst religious and scientific groups. Science and Religion are in harmony, we just don't understand either well enough to see truth.
As for the question, why doesn't God just fix everything for us? two things come to mind, 1 what would we strive for if life was already perfect, what would be the purpose of life after death if no one died? 2. For the most part, we have made our own messes, and there is much to gain by cleaning up after ourselves. Just thoughts...
Oh, and out of curiosity a P.S., Where do Koialas come from?
[ June 09, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Adi Gallia ]
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Gnome, I didn't see youre post before I responded, you made some excellent points. I'd like to hear more details on this "Mitochondrial Eve" I liked also what was said about the big bang " As for the Big Bang, it has been theorized to some fragment of a second, and Science can not determine what happened prior " I don't know about the chatholic church, but I certainly see God as the creator of the big bangs. as for asking God, hasn;t he given us enough proof already? That so many billions of people have worshipped a higher being, even if their beliefs can be counted as basic needs, isn't it possible that they are on to something? Can you trully explain the presence of life, plant, animal, the paterns of existance? The golden Mean? The Color Purple? Without including God, or by God's other names, Allah, Lord, the higher being, greater porpuse?
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"That so many billions of people have worshipped a higher being, even if their beliefs can be counted as basic needs, isn't it possible that they are on to something?"
Not really. Many billions of people have worshipped DIFFERENT, often mutually exclusive, higher beings. This means that the majority of those billions have been wrong. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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To answer the 'why is there pain and death and violence etc' question I'll use two words...Free Will.
Without it we are only puppets.
As to losing faith for those that have... No matter what... God still has faith in you. Everyone must find their path however and use their free will.
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Many Billions have made one, often fatal error. They have compared thier diffrences, and come to believe that since a religion works diffrently than thier own they must be worshiping a diffrent God. This denies a fundamental principle that has been part of religion as a whole since the ancient time of the Zoriastrians.
There is only one God. God has spoken to mankind again and again through contless diffrent Phophets. Jesus, Moses, Muhamad.... Each time, a new message was delivered, an inportant teaching that helped humanity proceed spiritually. And each time, men leapt at the oportunity to twist, bend, and add superstitions onto those teachings. Each time men found ways to create power for themselves, falsely using the name of God.
Some religions appear exclusive, but that is only because man has added so many false supperstitions and beliefs onto the word of God.
Think of it as a lamp. Out of this lamp pours an amazing amount of light, light wich can reveal the truth about a room to it's ocupants. However, the people in the room feel a need to decorate the lamp. They adorn it with material, lampshades, jewles, soon disagreement arises between the peoples on how to decorate the lamp. They forget how important the light was, and add on what they think is important untill the light itself is obscured.
..... And by the way, Thank you Sachant, I'll have to remember youre puppet example next time I have a face to face conversation on this topic.
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Tom Davidson, You were once a Bahai? Well, what Happened? Please, I'd really like to know. If you prefer not to share the story here, please email me.
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The "Mitochondrial Eve" is the woman from which all Homo Sapiens spawned from. A Mitochondrion is a part within the cells in our body, but once existed as a separate organism. They are believed to be descendants of bacteria that lived in single-celled organisms over a billion years ago. When mapping the history of humans through the genome, it was DNA from the Mitochondria that was used. This is different from the DNA taken from the chromosomes of cells. There are many Mitochondria in a cell, and these hundreds in each cell act as batteries for the cell. The Mitochondria in all of our bodies comes from our mothers. Because of this, all of the Mitochondrial DNA in everyone's body on Earth comes from one woman, termed the "Mitochondrial Eve." However, she was not the only living woman at the time, so to speak. There were other species of what we would see more as Humans than Apes. However, none of these evolved into what we are today. They all died out, either through lack of evolution and mutation, or killed off by what we are today.
It is believed we originated in eastern Africa. Through the Mitochondrial DNA, scientists have traced the spread of humans through the World. I am not sure exactly how it is done, but everyone has at least slightly different Mitochondrial DNA. I believe people were organized into what is termed as "haplotypes." From Africa we spread into the fertile crescent, then along the water into southeast asia and so on. Realize that this is not a few thousand years ago, this is a long time ago. As we spread, some people settled down and others moved on. Over this long period of time, people developed different traits to fit them to their enviornments. I forget the name of the extra flap of skin that is generally attributed to Asians above their eyes, but it is believed that it evolved out of a need to protect the eyes from the reflecting sunlight off the snow all around them on the ground at the time.
Anyway, I am just going on and on, not sure when I should stop. If you are interested, all this information is from a book I read entitled "Mapping Human History," by the author Steve Olson. Another interesting book on human history is "Gun, Germs, and Steel," by Jared Diamond, which won the Pulitzer Prize. The latter of the books focuses more on the differences between various peoples and civilizations and like the title implies, how Guns, Germs, and Steel enabled civilizations to conquer others. It all stems from a divergance from hunting and gathering, to farming!
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Read the Worthing Saga. It's a beautiful creation story and poses a very realistic philosophy about the origin and importance of God. But maybe I read into it too much.
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Basically, I went on pilgrimage to Haifa at a time when my faith was already at a low ebb, due to some personal misfortune. While there, I had the pleasure of experiencing the Wailing Wall massacre in Jerusalem, the first Gulf War, and so on -- and, to be perfectly honest, was not impressed by the somewhat millennialist, doomsday nature of what the Hands of the Cause I visited there had to say. I asked God for a sign, didn't get one, and have been looking ever since.
I'm also not a big fan of the increasingly dictatorial nature of the Spiritual Assembly nowadays, either; it's unlikely that I'd return to the fold while the Faith is being managed so poorly.
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Thanks Gnome, I'll be sure to look those books up when I get back to school I am already slightly familiar with mitochondrian, thanks to childhood readings of Madeline Le'engle.( I'll also try to find the worthing saga.) Currently, I'm about to start The Universe in A Nutshell by Stephan Hawking. Have you read anything by him?
And Tom, two things, what are you now? and who was it who said, "Sometimes we must remain Bahais despite the Bahais" ( I may be misquoting) Though Social interactions are important to our emotional well being, I think such interaction is outweighed by the importance of Spiritual growth. I've heard many stories like yours, and understand it must be a overly common occurence, but I am still curious......
-Hobbes, I hope you pick answer E. Although answer D. may be part of the solution.
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Yes, I have. Hawking is a wonderful read for any mind curious about the universe. I have read both "A Brief History of Time" and "The Universe in a Nutshell." I would recommmend both books to anyone, even though there is a small occurance of overlap between the two books.
I am also in the middle of the book "The Elegant Universe," by Brian Greene. His novel breaks down String Theory and M-Theory, in a manner similar to Hawking and the universe in his novels. If you enjoy the Nutshell, I would recommend reading this as well. It probes deeper into the universe and our understanding of it.
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You know i hate to say this but Tom's right my facts aren't completely adequate. Tom do you suppose you could point me to articles on evolution as published by the human genome project?
I was just on their site seeking documentation. I'd heard that they'd disproved Evolution on TV on a news channel in passing. I assumed they were right because i as an amateur geneticist didn't think it was possible.
doesn't change my belief that it isn't possible.
~Brock ~What am I? A Frog?
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I'm an agnostic. I didn't just stop believing in the Baha'i Faith; I pretty much stopped believing in God. The way I see it nowadays, the ball's in His court. I tried with every ounce of my being to hear His voice, and didn't -- so I figure that it's now HIS turn to put out some effort, if He really cares (or exists.)
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Brock, to which news station were you listening when you heard that evolution had been "disproved" by the Human Genome Project? *laugh* I can't find ANY claims of that sort -- not least because the Human Genome Project isn't ABOUT evolution, and doesn't publish articles on the subject.
quote:God is not confined to anything that can trully be descibed by mankind.
I just want to mention one thing to Hobbes. Adi G. doesn't sound like a Mormon because they would never describe God in such generalized, universal terms. At least, not without including a word such as "influence," that would seperate God's location and description from God's power. To a Mormon, God has a definate description and even a probable location. {I only mention this information because Hobbes has been interested in the LDS religion for a while.}
As to the actual question: I would suggest asking God first, and then studying individual religious systems that interest you. Then, asking God again.
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Hobbes: What about there is a god and SHE is deistic? or It is deistic?
Also, there is the Hindu Brahma, in which God is everything, yet god is not intelligent, and god is beyond intelligent, and god is unknown, and unknowable. Brahma gives rise to everything, and everything is illusion (maya). Not a concept that can be easily grasped in one post. According to hinduism, Jesus is an avatar of Brahma, which fits quite nicely with Christianity.
Tom: I've been through this in another thread (Atheism) on the other side. A-theism, means "without belief in God." I personally describe myself as an atheist, but in discussion I usually also point out that I am agnostic, in that I recognize that knowledge of god (either way) is impossible, unless proof is provided. It sounds to me like you are in the same position, yet you describe yourself as agnostic, and yet you still beleive in the Baha'i Faith. This is the first time I have noticed your having been Baha'i and I don't understand what "beleiving in the Baha'i Faith" means if you don't beleive in God.
Brock: (also in another thread, I think the one about the pledge of allegiance) The Human Genome project is completely in accordance with evolutionary theory. In fact, the genome can be used to show where evolutionary changes took place, such as the (I think) 23 "evolutionary Eves" that all mankind descended from, as well as the carrier of the (male) mutation from which all native americans descended. (the native american Adam?) Likewise, we are shown to be related to mice, etc. All of biological science is based on evolutionary theory. It works.
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Let me repeat that sentence, this time with emphasis added: "I didn't just stop believing in the Baha'i Faith...."
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Woah, for some reason I skipped over that sentance. *looks sheepish and ducks head*
Glenn, I don't think it makes much of a difference what Gender God is, but if it matters to you you can put another binary bit in their to describe the possibility.
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For those that keep looking for signs of God. I see them everyday. My daughter is one. I lost twins before her, but I didn't blame God. Their loss led me to the gain of my beautiful girl.
We're poor as hell, yet we always manage to just pay the bills and keep food on the table.
My father was told he had at most four years to live. He is now on year five and gauranteed to live the year.
I don't know how many times I was at the lowest of lows and something happened to lift me out of it.
My daughter could have been born with pneumonia had I not had the help of a woman that switched me to a good hospital and a good doctor and staff that knew what needed to be done so she DIDN't have pneumonia and die. She had meconium (the first poop) in her bag of water and they had to have a respiratory team on hand. If I had stayed at the prior hospital, I would have only had a nurse midwife and they were the same people that told me I had twins AFTER they had already passed away. They also were the ones that didn't tell me what was wrong until two sonograms and 2 hours later. The new doctor and hospital actually cared and took every precaution to ensure her safety and my own.
My Great-Grandmother was a woman of great faith and she lived until 101. She just passed away a few months ago.
I've had a lot of losses in the family over the past few years and yet, it brings comfort that they are not lost but home.
I recently just found a church too after searching for years and not finding one for me. This one does not ask for money and instead talks about the free will of the individual and a personal relationship between the God, Jesus and themself.
There is a show about Miracles on PAX tv. It talks about things that would make your skin prickle because the coincidences are too much to be just coincidence.
God doesn't have to do big things to make you see a miracle. Birth of babies are a complete miracle. A flower blooming in the middle of winter is a miracle and on and on. Simple things are miracles too.
Just so there isn't a fight between myself and evolutionists, I am a creationist evolutionist. God set the wheels in motion for evolution in my opinion. Seven days to God can be any period of time and man is not able to comprehend the span of time it could have truely taken. That's just my opinion and may be completely wrong but I'm satisfied to talk to God about it when I see Him/Her.
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The color purple is a miracle. If you don't know what I mean, you might want to read the book, although I'll admit it's a bit rough with a person's emotions.
But seriously,what sort of comunication are agnostics expecting???? Theres so much already That we exist, is amazing, miraculas, phenominal in itself...
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I've only seen the Color Purple but it's the one movie that just floors me and brings me to tears.
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Heck, why not ANY communication? That'd be good.
I look around at the world and, while amazed by its beauty, see nothing that indicates a sense of coherent design. There's no obvious master plan, and no moral rules being applied consistently.
Now, God may BE inconsistent. But if so, He's going to need to tell me why.
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Free will. God has a plan for everyone even if some of the answers are 'no'.
I may be experiencing a miracle tonight if all goes well. It's interesting how it's come about and it will mean a little more money for food and bills.
Also, it's important to listen and not demand answers or expect God to act like some magician on a stage. He does not have to prove anything to anyone and yet He has performed so many miracles for so many people. It's not up to Him/Her to open your ears and make you hear. It's not up to Him/Her to open your eyes and make you see. You first need to open your heart and have true faith.
Believe me, I'm not one to prosylitize (sp?). I've always held to the point in the scripture where it says to talk to those you know. The idea is they are the only ones that are going to be more willing to listen to what you have to say without you jamming something they don't want to hear down their throat.
I'm just saying that those that demand proof need to start realizing proof is there, but it's not God's fault if we are blind to it. I could pull out the bible and quote things to you, but I have a feeling that many that question God aren't going to find their answers here.
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I think its interesting that we, as a collectively faithless people, expect it from G-d to show us the "light." We have tried many times to 'talk' G-d and yet we say it hasn't worked. Yet we have no proof whether or not there is or is not a Supreme Being. Why is it G-d's job to guide us from all evils? Isn't that the basis of free will? If we are so certain that we all have the free chioce to choose our own future, then how can we possibly believe that G-d must prevent all evils from harming us. I think we have all lost some part of religion in general because death seems so far away and because it isn't general accepted as 'popular'. Now I am sure there are some devoutly religious people out there that would disagree, but we as a people are losing our faith. We only need or feel a need for G-d when something has gone wrong, or it is forseeable that something might go wrong. Or perhaps when we want something to happen. World Peace. Whatever. I believe that there is a reason why we are here. I believe that we can decide what that reason is. Some say that to believe in free will means to disbelieve in G-d. I say the true G-d is giver of free will, the giver of choice. But I think religion is just a tradition and that is the only reason we say we follow one.
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"He does not have to prove anything to anyone and yet He has performed so many miracles for so many people."
If it's impossible to tell a miracle from a lucky break or the result of hard work, if God is so inconsistent and unpredictable as to be IMPOSSIBLE to predict or even identify, then what's the point?
We've had this discussion in much greater depth on the other side of this forum, but I'll sum it up: basically, given the state of the world, God cannot be omnipotent, omniscient, AND benevolent -- much less permit Free Will, assuming He does in fact grant miracles. (Note that Free Will is often used to justify the continued existence of Evil, but we see several instances of God intervening against the exercise of Free Will -- miraculously -- to defeat Evil. Why were the walls of Jericho more "evil" than the 9/11 attacks?)
The traditional answer when trying to deal with these contradictions is to demand of someone that he or she somehow ASK God. Read the Book of Mormon, you're told. Meditate. Read the Bible. Go to a church. Try to FEEL the truth.
And while some people do, indeed, convince themselves that they've FELT this truth -- although, since so many of them "feel" things that drive them to join mutually incompatible religions, at least some of these people are deluding themselves -- many others don't. I'm not so egotistical as to assume that I can speak for those people who, despite their efforts, do NOT hear the voice of God, or see His hand.
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First, it seems strange that some of you think you are wiser than God. The walls of Jericho fell for a specific reason, not just because of the evil deeds of the people inside the walls. Maybe the Towers fell for a specific reason also. Afterwards, millions of Americans united in prayer. Prayers were raised as they had not been in years. Maybe this is what God wanted. Or maybe it was a reminder that the rest of the world is not as lacking in turmoil as the United States was. We can only speculate as to what some parts of God’s plan are but rest assured that he has one. God is not kind and merciful, but many people often forget that he is also just… and justice rarely seems just to the convict. Plus, death is not quite the same from God’s point of view. People who doubt Him say that death, murder, and war in the world prove that there is no God. These people forget, or choose to ignore the occasions (including Christ’s resurrection) in which God conquered death. To God, death is nothing. If someone dies, God can grant that someone eternal life.
Quick Note: The mathematical probability of atoms ever arranging themselves into something as simple as hemoglobin (a chemical necessary for us to live) without some sort of divine motivation is approximately 1 in 1x10^74,000. I’ll look up the physicist who calculated that and get back to ya’ll as soon as I can.
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*Laugh* It doesn't matter what the human genome project's goals are, discoveries about science are rarely what we expect, just because you're looking for subject A doesn't mean you'll always find it, often you find subject L which could strike you as entirely out of left field, till you understand and then it makes sense, i believe it was because the genes which controlled human skeletal structures weren't variable, there was only one structure, gene B could determine length of bone, and gene c could mean your bones are brittle and will brake often, but there was no variable on how many fingers you will have. Which is why mutations aren't dominant traits and xplains why no race of humans has an xtra nostril.
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If it is true that, to God, death is nothing, why do so many people claim that God miraculously cured their cancer? You ask me to "rest assured" that God DOES have a plan -- but where's the evidence of that? What proof do YOU have? (And if this is going to come back to some personal experience you've had with the voice of God, please see my earlier posts on this thread.)
If God's plan is so unknowable as to be absolutely inscrutable and unjustifiable, how can we say there's a plan at all?
After all, if you can't COUNT on God -- to knock down a wall, or save a plane, or destroy a plane, or cure a cancer, or kill a cancer patient -- how can you possibly rely on Him? And if you can't rely on Him, what's the point?
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Brock, I'm still not understanding why that would "disprove" evolution...?
Everyone's proof only means something to them. It would never mean anything to you because God is very personal.
What God or Jesus has done for me, wouldn't mean diddly squat to you. I listed some of the things and you still think they are diddly squat. That's ok though, because those miracles weren't for you and weren't meant to convince you. I'm sure God speaks to you too, but you just aren't listening because you want proof. Proof will never come in the way you expect.
I had another one occur yesterday after something that I tried as a suggestion from the last sermon by the minister. Let's just say, I sold something because I needed the money and the person I sold it to offered to pay more than what the final bid for his own conscious, his own well being and his own desire to help if he could. I had given up when the bid had an hour and 16 minutes to go after a week of sitting with no bids. You can call it coincidence if you want. I'm sure you will.
As for Adeimantus' question, have I heard the voice of God? If I told you yes, would you call me a liar? Would you tell me I must have been deluded? Of course you would. Because I don't believe you think it's a possible scenario. *shrug* My faith is strong though it has it's weak times. It has it's times it's shaken to it's very core. The thing is, without it, what is left? The belief that life has no meaning? lol...
I've heard that it's harder to be an atheist than anything. It's the total belief that your entire life and those of everyone around you is a complete and total accident with no purpose. That's utterly hollow and sad and dark and empty don't you think?
Agnostic I can understand. They don't know what to believe and are waiting. But, I have to tell you, you can't wait forever. You never know when you'll run into 'too late'.
My only wish is that atheist, agnostic, relgious, everyone finds what makes them happy as long as it does not harm or infringe on others happiness. Like I've said before, I resent when people try to shake MY foundation of faith because they want to prove something or test me. I'm tested all my life, no need to get in there and push yourself I assure you. Posts: 103 | Registered: May 2003
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Is there a God? In order to answer that question a person needs a basis from which to start. The first and most simple basis is, what do you feel? Does it feel to you that there is a higher being.... a creator?
The next area to search is your friends and family. What do they think? These are the people that you trust more than anyone else in the world, their opinion must be important to you.
The next area to search is where others have searched before you. Man as we know him has existed for around seven thousand years. We are no more intelligent than those that came before us. Sure we are more advanced, but that is just because we have built upon the work of our predecessors. People have asked the same questions that you are asking for seven millennia now, some of them have had some brilliant break-throughs. Look to their studies. Look at what answers they have come to and what brought them there. People like Locke, Plato, Socrates, Thomas Aquinas, Bennings, Augustus...... and many many more.
The next area to study is religion itself. I will make no deceptive statements, I am a devout Christian and consider myself a disciple of Christ our savior, this doesn't mean that if you don't agree with me I must automatically be a fool. It took me forever to come to this conclusion and the Bible helped more than I can put into words. But don't just fall on Christianity as the answer. If you are anything like me you will need to explore the other possibilities before coming to a conclusion. Research Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, the Jewish beliefs, and the atheistic views before coming to a faith. They are all ancient works and there is so much information to study, but it is worth it.
Next, if you are like me, you will need to back up your findings with secular historical evidence. For me Christ is the path to God, and his teachings and sacrifices are the only way for me to achieve salvation. But in order to make this decision a huge historical study needed to take place. Did Christ really exist? Did he do the things that the Bible says he did? Why is he the messiah that the old testament prophases? What gives the old testament any validity? These questions and many more needed to be answered.
The biggest thing, and the thing that I eluded to first is what feels right to you? Faith is the basis for any religion. First you must answer that, and no one can answer it for you.
Finally to answer some of your questions, as the bible tells us. We die because we are not perfect. God's original creation - Adam and Eve - were perfect, but they fell because of the original sin. Sin by definition is something that is separate from God, therefore if sin becomes part of our life we become separate from God. God is perfection, but we are only perfect if sin is not part of us. We die because sin is part of all of us. people used to live longer because they were closer to god's original creations, but since that time man has become further tainted and we will die sooner. At least this is the Biblical answer.
Many of our other questions can be answered by small derivations of the above answer.
As for how many Gods there are – only you can figure that out through studying. I can tell you but others will dispute me. You asked does he live among us, again I could answer but you would find better answers yourself. Are we his arms, legs, ears … etc? Sort of – but read and study to find out.
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I'd like to point out that THIS is part of what I find so frustrating. Sachant's telling me that people have to come to an unknowable God through faith and emotion; Mickey's telling Lee that feelings aren't enough, and one must establish proof of God through historical and textual research.
They both clearly believe that they've found God; they both insist that their way worked. They don't agree on the god in question, and don't agree on the method of finding Him.
That's extremely annoying to those of us who're still looking for a roadmap. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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). <grin> Actually I'm assuming you are since what you said sounds ... Mormon <grin>. Anyways I don't agree with the above quote. I don't think that it's so much that we are rewarded at a future date but that we are rewarded with our intelectual/emotion/spirtual growth. Just a thought.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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*looks sheepish and ducks head* 
