1. Write a 13 line hooky intro. Explanation here of how to ensure yours is 13 lines. If it is longer it will get cut by KDW.
2. Write to the prompt. We are flexible, but it should be there...somewhere!
3. Post your intro using the format identified in this
thread. Please don't post anything but entries on that thread.
4. All entries posted by midnight of Friday 8th April(GMT). Voting opens on Saturday 9th April.
5. If you wish your entry to anonymous (until the reveal at the end) then email me with your Hatrack name and your story FORMATTED exactly as it needs to be to posted. By that I mean if want italics then use the code, and make sure I can just cut and paste it into a post without any more fiddling...Be aware, if you send it to me and I post it and then you want to change something you won't be able to.
6. Guidance for voting: when voting is open you will be asked to vote for your top 3 stories. Please take into account smoothness of prose, desire to read more, adherence to the prompt.
You are not allowed to vote for your own.
You may post comments about the intros (encouraged) but this isn't obligatory.
If you fail to vote you will be disqualified and your votes will trickle down (if someone voted you first then your 5 points goes to whoever they voted for second).
When voting opens, vote before looking how others have voted. It is fairer and stops you from being influenced one way or the other(i.e. everyone votes for a particular story...)
Don't play if you don't plan to vote...
PROMPT:
THE HUNTER AND THE HUNTED.
and/or
ICE AND FIRE
and/or
NIGHT AND DAY
(You only need use a single set of prompts. You don't get more points for using all the prompts...)
DISCUSSION/QUESTIONS ON THIS THREAD ONLY--ENTRIES ONLY ON THE OTHER THREAD
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 31, 2011).]
[This message has been edited by alliedfive (edited March 31, 2011).]
If you used unique pairs, perhaps you might combine the prompt with the title of the first 13.
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited March 31, 2011).]
PROMPTS:
1. NIGHT AND DAY
2. THE HUNTER AND THE HUNTED
3. FIRE AND ICE.
You can choose any or all of the three prompts but your entry must be based on one of the pairs.
You may use any of the above three pairs anyway you like in your intro but it is a judging criteria (and designed to make it a little harder) so it should be evident.
In light of that I have asked Snapper to manage things in my absence and he's agreed.
He will close the competition at midnight (ish) on Friday 8th April and will issue the voting instructions.
SO SNAPPER WILL TAKE OVER ON FRIDAY. Okay?
Hopefully I won't have trouble voting in France, but I may email Snapper my votes prior to going, on the basis that no-one posts an entry in the final eight hours or so.
Voting will close either when all have voted or latest Sunday 17th.
Have fun.
He will post that it is closed on the entries thread.
lol
Glad I didn't post it yet, but . . . wondering if I misunderstood the timeline.
Obviously too late now but I was wondering if we could have done two of them? I didn't see anything in the rules even though I read them twice, but that doesn't mean much. I keep missing misspelled words even though there shouldn't be a lot of them but there sometimes are.
Yesterday I got an idea for a second 13 lines. But it was just as I laid down in bed so didn't have the time to type it out and post it.
I'm also appalled that someone found one of my sentences to be contradictory and someone else found the sentences to be odd.
Well, there's always the next time.I'll try harder then.
quote:
Hasn't anyone here heard of Third Person, omniscient narration?
Speaking for myself, it has been a while which might be one reason it sounded odd. But at the same time even with omniscient it reads a bit- I hate to use the term- immature, like you need practice or was written for a younger audience.
As if I'm the one that should be saying that, with the way I have been writing lately-talk about needing practice.
I have to started to see now, though, why it didn't work in the first place.
P.S.: Some of you are very kind. 
[This message has been edited by mc1ate1mad1cow (edited April 10, 2011).]
Most of the opinions about your entry dealt with whether your piece drew them in. One reason why Hatrack has a limit of 13 lines is because 13 lines represents the first page of a manuscript (if formatted correctly). It is said most manuscripts are rejected based on the first page, so hooking an editor is top priority. That's why you see comments like I'd keep reading and I'm hooked.
So please don't take our opinions as an inditement of your writing. We're just comparing it to 20 others and judging it on whether it hooks or not.
Anyway, I was reading this blog:
http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006_12_24_misssnark_archive.html#116732392671074681
and the blogger(who is a well known lit. agent/editor-idk) clearly states 'the hook' and the 'first page' to be very different.
Now I'm confused. Is the hook some sort of a prologue/synopsis rolled into one? Or is it like how we do it here- the first actual page of a novel?
Thanks.
quote:
Hasn't anyone here heard of Third Person, omniscient narration?
Yes of course -- anyone who has read something older than 50 years old has heard of it (whether they know it or not, but I think most people here are familiar -- it's a good group). I think the main problem is the number of entries. I am tapped out at 15 max. It becomes counterproductive pretty quickly after that.
These contests really are just for fun (unless you're Charlie Sheen). Don't weigh too heavily on specific feedback, because if someone spent 5 minutes on yours, that means they put in over 1.5 hours providing feedback.
I spent my whole morning writing session critiquing these -- and they were halfassed at best.
quote:
Now I'm confused. Is the hook some sort of a prologue/synopsis rolled into one? Or is it like how we do it here- the first actual page of a novel?
Hooks apply to movies, short stories, novels -- really any media for telling a story. For novels, the hook can be longer than a page, but for short stories, this group tries to emphasize the first 13 lines, because it may be the only opportunity the author gets to make a favorable impression with the editor.
Think how long it took to critique just the few 13 lines in this contest. I can't imagine being a slush editor. I would tend to make up my mind pretty quick if it's gonna grab me or not.
[This message has been edited by Wordcaster (edited April 10, 2011).]
Anyway, can you not open in an omniscient third voice-just to get the reader settled- for only a few lines and then latch onto a character after that?
Also, I know I'll probably get shot for saying this, but: Harry Potter's first chapter was in omniscient third voice. I personally feel it helps to avoid all the cliched expressions with which the protagonists start, from the very first line. But I now see that I need to open my mind a bit.
Edit: my post was meant for wordcaster.
And no, I didn't intend to offend you(utahute) or anyone. This is getting kind of ridiculous and making me look like a bitter person. I'm sorry to bring it up and in fact, thank everyone for their comments.
[This message has been edited by mc1ate1mad1cow (edited April 10, 2011).]
I fear I am an old dog, and you cant teach me new tricks.
As far as third person omni, I dont know, it has hard time drawing me in.
But yes, I heard in novels especially you can take the time for an omni start then draw in to a deeper pov.
Don't feel you need to alter your style for us. You write the way that feels best for you. I know I've changed my approach since joining my first critique group but that doesn't mean you should.
The real point to these challenges (since we had to use the money we compiled for winning these challenges to bail a member out of jail) is to see how your style and ideas are received. "Winning" only gets you a pat on the back.
So take these challenges as little exersizes to build your muse muscles.
I've always considered the hook as being the first one to three sentences. I was a little confused about the opening but from what is said here, that seems to be the first 13 lines.
Wordcaster has a point about how much time we have spent on these crits.
From what I understand from listening to pro editors, an experienced slush reader can tell just by the opening-first 13 lines-if the story is worth reading or not. After the first two to three pages for sure.
Actually Mc1 I don't think it made you look bitter, a little frustrated maybe but not bitter.
When I first started writing seriously my default POV was TP Omni, unless I tried to change it, I always write in it, probably because when I was a young whippersnapper that is what I read. My favorite writers wrote in it. . At the moment my default seems to be First Person especially with Urban Fantasy which seems to be one of two default genera at the moment.
quote:
Hi,
I have a question. Did everyone think of the Brooker hen in first Kill as a chicken? I used the term to mean an adult female bird.
It's good to know what doesn't come across the way you meant it to, or what doesn't travel well across the pond.
I didn't think it was a chicken even though most of time we only describe chickens as hens, I know that other female birds are called hens.
I was wondering if you made it up because of the size and intelligence but not a chicken.
Is there somewhere we could have a list of names to go with Users names?
If everyone is willing to list their names of course.
Dune was a really good novel; it could have been great if it was written in limited third.
I like lots of books in omni third (i.e. the classics), but limited creates added tension because you don't know what the antagonist is thinking.
@Twiggy
I thought the Brooker hen was a chicken.
Louis, I started compiling my own list soon after I joined these workshop forums. There are several ways to learn a Hatracker's name: in an introductory post (like mc1's/Ranjit's), from a blog or Website (like mine), from an e-mailed critique, or within discussions. However, most of us chose not to use our real names as our user names for a reason. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my name in a published list quite yet.
Josephine Kait
philocinemas
alliedfive
and
aspirit...if she chooses to that is.
I'd forgotten that initial sense of horror when you realize that not everybody out there loves this finely crafted piece of awesomeness that is your writing.
And then, as is my standard rule, I left it alone, steadfastly refused to 'explain' to people what they missed, then went back and looked at it a week later and said to myself:
"Aw, hell . . . . they're right."
*chuckle*
This process is so damn fun, I can't believe I keep getting frustrated and leaving. I definitely don't agree with a lot of the votes, but it's so cool to remember there's other people out there!
You guys rock!
It's been SOOOO long, but it's good to be back.
-Falken224 (posing as Corin)
P.S. Next challenge soon! I'm TOTALLY in!
Thanks to all who make these things happen.
Those of us who've been here a while have grown a tougher skin--believe me, it took me a WHILE. As for omniscient: I like omniscient. I read it in new books from Bernard Cornwell, Robert Low, Conn Iggulden, Robyn Young, Kevin J. Anderson, etc. David Gemmell was one of my absolute favorite writers (and one of the only ones who I have read every single book he's written), and he ONLY used 3rd Person Omniscient. If used well, it can make for a quick, informative read.
AS for Dune: it's the best selling science fiction epic of all time. I think it's fine the way it is. Those who didn't enjoy it, wouldn't have with any changes.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 12, 2011).]
quote:
Those of us who've been here a while had grown a tougher skin
Even if I don't agree with what's being said, it is, after all, the opinion of someone I'm attempting to win over as a reader. I have no delusions about winning over absolutely everyone who can read, but every outside thought gives me insight as to how others perceive my writing, and such insights are valuable to me. As far as my realization goes, the only thing my thick skin and honest approach has not really defended me against is when a reviewer decides to rewrite portions of my story for me; others might find that valuable feedback, but that tends to annoy me.
S!
S!
For me, the most valuable thing I picked up from OSC was that there's only really 3 comments your readers should give, that you absolutely may not argue with. I don't remember exactly, but it's something along the lines of:
Huh? - Translation: I don't understand this part of your story.
Yeah right. - Translation: I don't believe this part of your story.
Who cares? - Translation: I don't care about this part of your story.
Anything beyond that may or may not be useful, but if your reader is confused, disbelieving, or bored, you don't get to argue with them about it, and they ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Feel free to second guess their reasons for WHY they are confused, bored or disbelieving, and you're also free to NOT CARE! Sometimes you're just not trying to get certain people to like your story; They're not your audience.
Good readers are the ones who remember it's their PERSPECTIVE that's valuable, not necessarily their advice.
For me, the valuable part of this is not the "why" people are telling me, though it CAN be valuable. For example, the "the whole intro felt rushed" . . . that may be, but if I'm TRYING to do that, I'm doing things perfectly. The real message under that is "who cares?". Rushed or not, somehow, I didn't make that reader care about my into. PERHAPS they're right about it being rushed, but maybe not. (in this case, I think they are) Either way, it's my job to be a good enough writer to fix the problem.
At least for me, this is the part of the process I've gotten rusty at, and it's good to get back into practice. And honestly, it's an awful lot of fun.
Is that a congrats to skadder?!
It's pretty close between him and sjsampson!
Let's see if any of you'll even come close to winning the next one.
Ha!
Just kiddddding people.
Very well deserved is all I'll say.
There were some excellent openings, and a lot of interest in the challenge.
Also congratulations to Crank for that winning title. It really added to the implied promise of the story.
Thanks skadder for running this. And to snapper, for keeping us entertained. Next time skadder will be a little reticent to let you take over, I suspect, because you keep forgetting to delete his paragraphs.
[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited April 12, 2011).]
Thanks skadder/snapper
As for my part, I'm very happy with the feedback. I knew getting dark would have a cost, and those who were repulsed were even so because I'd achieved what I had set out to.
I did think it strange how many were drawn to write the Hunter/Hunted instead of Day and Night or Fire and Ice. I'd like to see a challenge like this where the genre is determined, and each writer would have to step out of his or her comfort zone. And I'd like to see hooks to actual short stories. I'd also like to see those stories submitted. Then the contest winners would be obvious...
Hmmm. I think I might have to put one of these together...
[This message has been edited by snapper (edited April 14, 2011).]
Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time to finish that story and send it out to another type of contest...!
S!
S!
We just need to push a particularly compliant person...
(Hoping that the particularly compliant person hasn't read the above lines)So who's willing to give some odd 10 hours of their time? Come on, come forward.
Thanks everyone.