Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Suggestion for a new challenge

This is topic Suggestion for a new challenge in forum Writing Challenges at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Void (Member # 2567) on :

This would need Kathleen's approval, but I would like to suggest something a bit different. This would not be a replacement for the mighty First 13, just an additional challenge.

The moderator would describe a character in a few words. For instance: A forty-seven year old man, with a bad back, a mysterious past, a weakness for baked goods, who is grouchy, arrogant and currently has a cold.

The challenge is to convey all this to the reader without using any of the words in the description or obvious synonyms. You can place the character in any setting and, of course, the character may interact with others.

An example of the above could be:

quote:
Jacob stepped on to the scale an sneezed. "Dag blast it!" he swore, wiping his red nose. Could he be allergic to the scale, he wondered? If so, it was an allergy that had developed in the last ten years, about the time he began to make a religious habit of worshipping at the alter of Krispy Kreme. Looking down at the scale's digital read out he let out a stream of expletives. Two pounds up in as many days! This had to stop. If only he could exercise like he used to, but that sciatica burst into flame when he tried. He sneezed again and backed off the scale. Now if only he could get on his pants, he could commence with the day.
He caught a glimpse of himself in the mirror. Still handsome, despite the extra, he thought. Nearing the half century mark,

Well, okay, that is terrible writing, but serves to illustrate what I'm talking about.

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Void (edited May 20, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited May 20, 2008).]

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Sounds okay to me.

Please remember the 13 line rule, though.

Edited to add: sorry about the monkeys and the secret, Void.

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited May 20, 2008).]

Posted by Void (Member # 2567) on :

Whoops! Yes the 13 lines. Sorry about that. No harm done with your editing, though, I think the example still works.

I hardly think there's an agent scouring Hatrack in search of new talent lamenting,"That was a good piece of writing, now if only there had been something about a secret and some monkeys, it could have really been great!"

Posted by Wolfe_boy (Member # 5456) on :

Why not just incorporate this into the existing challenge - instead of a story outline, propose this. I've been toying with the idea of requiring a specific technique, tool, or type of writing - must be in first person/third person, must be from a specific alien POV, must be strictly dialogue, things of that ilk.

A little variety in the 13 line challenge would be welcomed, I would think.

Jayson Merryfield

Posted by illiterate (Member # 7997) on :

Agree with Wolfe_boy... although I plan on starting the writing challenge this week cause I'm a newbie. I like the idea of just adding this into your synopsis for one of the weekly challenges.
There's a list floating out there somewhere.

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

This sounds good. I liked your blip of a stoy, Void, it made me laugh and I would read further.

But seriously, what's all this nonsense about the First 13 about anyway? I've always wondered that. I think (vaguely) isn't it something about protecting your rights to publish your work online, or something?

Well suppose you had absolutely no interest (whatsoever) [on any level!] in publishing this bit of writing. You'd just like to toy around with say 19 line (which you fully intend to send to the garbage), getting crits for longer passages would be incredibly useful.

Why can't there be some kind of board, or special forum, where the rule is not in place and part of the user's contract is something like... he/she/it "agrees to give up the publishing rights" or something. I mean, realistically, has anyone ever published something they put into the fragments and feedbacks? Or rather, of those published did they ever resemble what they posted? My guess would be that through various edits it might end up 80% different, or something. Which is a credit to the thorough reviews people give here.

Anyway, I realize it's policy. So I guess, if nothing else, I'd like a complete explanation.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

quote:
I'd like a complete explanation.

Zero, have you ever bothered to read the topics in the Please Read Here First area?

The explanation is there:

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum6/HTML/000001.html

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

quote:
Zero, have you ever bothered to read the topics in the Please Read Here First area?

Honestly? No.

But I have now. Thanks for the link. Your explanation is a good one for why posting only 13 might be a good option, but it fails to explain why it should be the only option, except to say this:

quote:
Even though most publishers are not likely to make use of the electronic rights to a story, for several years now, they have insisted on controlling an author's electronic rights and have included "deal-breaker" clauses about those rights in every contract.

But, what if a writer is so novice that the public feedback he would otherwise receive is far more valuable than his "publishability" (of that particular manuscript) ?

I'm being strictly hypothetical here, but suppose someone didn't care (in fact didn't want) to publish a piece of writing, but would like to share it with others, at greater length than 13 lines, why is that never permitted?

That's the part I wanted the complete explanation for.

[This message has been edited by Zero (edited May 21, 2008).]

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Then where would you suggest I put a complete explanation, Zero?

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

(Don't say that)

*Scamper away*

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

I'm not bragging about never visiting that board, my comment was more of a red-faced, sheepish, admission. Think young George Wshington with his hand caught in the cookie jar, kind of expression.

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

(I forgot I was going to post)

*Scamper back*

So, I've been watching all the ideas about the 13 line challenge (its funny what happens when it is down for a week), and I like all of them. It got me to thinking...What if the moderator gave a 13 line challenge, as simple as that.

If, for say, he wanted to do something like Void was talking about, he presents THAT 13 line challenge. If he wishes to do a synopsis, he presents THAT 13 line challenge.

This would allow the moderator to have a little more room in making the challenge. It would also increase the difference between each week.

Just thoughts

Justin Armstrong

*Scampers away*

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

*pogo sticks back*

I just wanted to say that I kind of like the idea of using exposition tags in our posts that convey what we want to be thought of as doing.

*pogo sticks away*

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

*Scurries forward, unsure if scurrying is sensible with a pogo-stick around*

If you want to post longer passages for critting you could try critters.org. Write a flash story and put it for critiquing.

*Scuttles back--yes, scuttling is far safer than scurrying*

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

*pogo sticks in*

That's a good idea, thanks. Also, by leaving a different way than you came, skadder, you are violating tradition. I hope you realize the profound implications.

*pole vaults away*

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

*Sneaks in*

But they both began with the same letter! I kept that tradition. Anyway I'm a rebel. *shakes a fist at the rules*

*Saunters away*

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 21, 2008).]

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

*Laughs from far away*

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

quote:
I'm being strictly hypothetical here, but suppose someone didn't care (in fact didn't want) to publish a piece of writing, but would like to share it with others, at greater length than 13 lines, why is that never permitted?
That's the part I wanted the complete explanation for.

Okay, how about this?

I think the 13 line process allows for as much help as we need.

I don't want to fill up the forum with more than 13 lines of a story.

I don't want to have to hassle with any kind of hierarchy of exceptions to the 13 line rule.

I like to keep things as simple as possible, and I like to try to keep them fair.

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

I can accept the rule exists for the sake of easiness and simplicity, because those are two things I understand. And because I had privately guessed that was the case.

Posted by MrsBrown (Member # 5195) on :

* Creeps in, poking head around corner *

I've been thinking about trying a Challenge, and you guys are making it a little more intimidating! Of course I have to ask, if I think of myself as a writer (or even an apprentice writer), then why am I worried? All I can do is try. The stakes are not high.

* Crawls away *

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

I think writers (in general) need a greater self-esteem. I'm amazed at how many writers I meet who appear to lack confidence. Which is sad because some of the best writing is born of confidence.

An artist who doesn't let the world around him restrict his vision will make the truest art. And art is about truth after all.

Posted by Wolfe_boy (Member # 5456) on :

MrsBrown, there really is nothing to be intimidated by in the First 13 Challenge. Chances are good that you'll lose, just like almost all of the others, so at least you'll be in good company. The critiques you'll get are less detailed than a typical short story, but you'll get more of them, and they'll be on more of a base level, gut instincts and direct impressions rather than dissections.

Good stuff all around. I hope to see your name in my email inbox this next time, since I'm the next moderator.

Jayson Merryfield

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

Heh! No, the stakes aren't high at all. What do you win? A virtual captain's hat. And acclaim, of course.

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

I like how OSC put it (I am pretty sure it was him any way).

A writer must hold two opposite thoughts in his mind at the same time (if you read 1984: Double Think). They are the best writer, and they are the worst writer.