Hello. Following are 13 lines from the opening of my book Town of Crows. It's about a serial killer in a small Irish town.
He who follows the crow will be led to the corpses of dogs: Moroccan saying.
She cursed herself for having agreed to meet him in the forest. Even if here was where it had all started, properly started that is, fumbling about in the inky black of night, the sudden jolt as he pulled on the seat lever, the way the seat shot back, and how he was above her, his hot peppermint breath blowing all over her face. She tugged on the collar of her pink polo neck jumper, bringing it up over her mouth, creating a warm cocoon of air inside. He had a nice car, big leather seats, but he preferred it in amongst the trees, always worried that someone might come along and catch them. She didn’t care. Not anymore. She just wanted him. She wanted him more than ever.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
If this is a book, it should be in the Fragments and Feedback for Books area.
Do you want me to move it for you, Mountaintop?
Posted by Mountaintop (Member # 10916) on :
Oops, sorry about that. Please. Thank-you.
Posted by Jay Greenstein (Member # 10615) on :
quote:She cursed herself for having agreed to meet him in the forest.
If she’s important enough to deserve our interest she’s important enough to save a name.
quote: Even if here was where it had all started, properly started that is, fumbling about in the inky black of night, the sudden jolt as he pulled on the seat lever, the way the seat shot back, and how he was above her, his hot peppermint breath blowing all over her face.
Did you even edit this before posting? Forgetting everything else, it makes no sense.
Compounding that, how can you say “if here was…” when the reader has no clue of where “here” is in time and space?
Bottom line: You, a voice whose tone and delivery can’t be heard, are talking to the reader as if they know who they are, where they are, and what’s going on. So while this may make perfect sense to you, who already know the situation and the characters, the reader has not a trace of context. And it matters not at all if you clarify it later, the reader will not tolerate confusion, for a line.
Forgetting everything but the approach—which is to record the words you would use telling the story aloud— it cannot work in a medium like ours, where the reader can’t see or hear your performance.
Aside from more time spent editing, I strongly suggest some time in the local library’s fiction writing section, digging out the tricks of the trade. Little we learned about writing technique in school applies to writing fiction because they were teaching us a general skill we’ll find useful on the job, not the professional tricks of the working fiction writer.
Posted by Mountaintop (Member # 10916) on :
Whoa, whoa, Jay Greenstein. Hold the horses. This has been edited three times and done the rounds of a couple of readers already. You are right, there is no clue as to the location because in isolation thirteen lines doesn't reveal it. By the way, a London literary agent has asked to see the complete manuscript, and suggested I change the opening to what you just read. And I did. You just read it. You might be correct in your views, but you could also be wrong.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Perhaps it would be best if you were to post the first 13 lines of a chapter that you feel needs help?
You can also post the complete synopsis so we as critiquers have context for feedback on an internal chapter.
Posted by Mountaintop (Member # 10916) on :
The character is referred to as 'she' because her identity is not revealed until chapter four. She is the first victim. The story is about the hunt for a serial killer in the small Irish town of Cross Beg. The main character is Detective Sergeant Ignatius Bones, a flawed character demoted from inspector and banished to Cross Beg as punishment for a number of indiscretions while at Pearse Street garda station in Dublin. As a backdrop I use small town Irish provincialism for what I hope is an interesting read.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
An individual ruminates about a romantic encounter.
Narrative point of view: Third-person limited omniscient, close narrative distance, anonymous narrator Past tense Indicative mood Complication; overt, agonist want for an intimate rendezvous, outdoors a problem; covert, intimations of ominous menace problem, and the man's true want unstated though intimated Conflict; overt, acceptance and rejection; covert, life and death Tone: quiet anxiousness underpinned by the agonist's unwary exposure to ominous menace (the latter a challenge of the highest order to achieve)
The fragment's duality of overt and covert complication and conflict facets and the limitations of a close narrative distance's event, setting, and persona sparse developments intimates this agonist is relevant for the overall drama yet soon to be intimately victimized. A challenge of which is a precarious balance among engage readers, develop likeableness and sympathy or empathy for the agonist, and not so much reader-agonist rapport connection that the agonist's brief dramatic span within the narrative annoys readers. A heady challenge.
Challenge met? Maybe. Yes, thirteen lines allows little dramatic development. Perhaps that few of the fragment's features utterly alienate readers, this reader anyway, is a challenge met. Perhaps on the quiet side and other challenges unmet.
For example, the specificity of a "pink polo neck jumper" is an excruciating, exquisite description, the sort of detailed thought a young, fashion-conscious British woman would think about herself, that develops a mite of dramatic characterization and artfully, incidentally, and says more than its superficial incidental description.
"polo neck" and "jumper" are patently British Commonwealth dialect. Instead, U.S. dialect uses terms turtleneck, also a U.S. slang word for a circumcised male, and blouse, maybe, or pullover or bland shirt. Such dialect details intimate a mite of setting and milieu development, as well as characterization. This reader would soon want more, further, clearer, and stronger diction signals that this is, indeed, in, from, and about Ireland.
Color specificity and specific garment descriptions are part of women's language, per Robin Lakoff's Language and Women's Place, 1975, the signal work that fostered Western gender studies curricula. So a young, fashion-conscious British Commonwealth woman, possibly vein. And "pink's" gender symbolism and expression more than meets the eye.
If only similar word economy described the forest, the car, and the event itself. The man's actions with the car seat, etc., and "his hot peppermint breath" do somewhat characterize the man and his intents, perhaps enough for the moment.
Reference to intimate physical interactions, the fragment's overt event setup, as "it," twice, though a common, everyday idiom and apt for a young woman's modest sensibilities in congruent opposition to her actual intent -- ironic, that -- is otherwise a syntax epithet. Yes, readers in the know would know what "it" refers to, also, a dramatic irony appeal potential; otherwise, pronoun "it" has no given subject antecedent or proximal subject referent.
This reader is of two minds about it. Works for me and doesn't work for me, greater weight of doesn't work for me even though I know the word's imports. A missed opportunity for a stream-of-consciousness expression that further characterizes the young woman and the event from an excruciatingly intimate detail, like, say, a "pet," personal, modest nonetheless, word for "it." Word economy regardless.
Echo repetition between his hot breath and her "warm cocoon inside" intimates each's enthusiasm degree for it, and covert intimacy innuendoes here. Inexperienced writers and readers easily and often overlook such unifying details and, likewise, their degree of emotional expression, as covert as the latter is. "inside" is an especially artful ambiguity, refers to both her physical bosom beneath the jumper and the nether, and as well her physical passion, again, through artful intimation.
Not sure if the Moroccan proverb epigraph works. The meaning is vague for Western sensibilities; the North African origin of the proverb confuses that the setting place of the novel is Ireland. Apt enough otherwise, though, surely, some similar Irish proverb would be available, do more setup work, and be less confused.
"Even if here was where it had all started, properly started[,] that is, fumbling about in the inky black of night, the sudden jolt as he pulled on the seat lever, the way the seat shot back, and how he was above her, his hot peppermint breath blowing all over her face."
Comma missed above. Conjunctive adverb phrase "that is" takes punctuation separation at both ends if nested within a sentence, clause, or phrase. More available in grammar handbooks about conjunctive adverb punctuation: when and where a semicolon is wanted, if at a sentence start, if a transition to a next complete clause, etc.
The sentence, as is, is a fragment, grammatically incomplete. Sentence fragments are best practice brief for prose, express an emotional state; otherwise, are proscribed for formal composition. Other apt sentence fragment uses center around stream of consciousness, here, the jumbled and rambled thoughts of a young woman in the heat of an intimate moment. Again, this reader is of two minds about that sentence fragment.
Punctuation, an italics format, maybe, diction, and syntax adjustments would ease the sentence's readability and comprehensibility difficulties. For illustration:
//Even if here was where it had all started -- properly started, that is -- fumbling about in the inky black of night, the sudden jolt when he pulled the seat lever, the way the seat shot back, how he was above her. And hot peppermint breath from his pursed lips blew all over her face.//
He "pulled _on_ the seat lever", a smart subconscious plant, a phallus intimation? He's a tugger? [sic] Gave me pause in a good way.
Who italicizes single words for emphasis? Young people do, anymore, in their thoughts and writing, as emulations of their vocal intonation speech. Besides, that italicized word centers around the whole novel's topic, right?
Whose thought, the above instance? The writer's? The narrator's? The agonist's, who thinks this thought that the narrator-writer reflects. And young people do start sentences with conjunction words anymore, especially "and" and but. Best prose practice, though, is timely and judicious, sparse uses of sentence fragments, italics, and unconventional grammar for particular, apt emphases.
Note "Even if" is a subordination conjunction idiom and transitional expression, an intensifier, too, though otherwise nonessential, and that makes its clause dependent. As is, the sentence contains no main clause. The main idea, though, is patent: "it."
"She tugged on the collar of her pink polo neck jumper, _bringing_ _it_ up over her mouth, _creating_ a warm cocoon of air inside."
"it" confused with the two intimacy references. Two unnecessary progressive-present verbs, the first an inapt tense shift and clumsy, the second somewhat passable. "tugged" and //pulled// both together created the warm cocoon. //She tugged on the collar of her pink polo neck jumper, pulled the fold up over her mouth, created a warm cocoon of air inside.// The idea emphasized and apt is the warmth created inside, therefore, the main idea -- echoes his hot breath. Hence, sequential, coordinated, parallel simple-past tense clauses are wanted.
One other consideration from and for this reader: what is the novel actually about? Is this a history report drama about a serial killer's activities? A true crime drama fictionalization? Or is the novel really and truly about another congruent opposite topic? That is, is the novel really a story, a satire about the human condition? By happenstance or design? If a satire, and the title, the epigraph, and the first thirteen lines intimated such, I would be a hopelessly engaged reader from the first word.
Like what? A model short story exemplifies such a satire and a similar narrative point of view start: Joyce Carol Oates' "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been," 1966, (Hosted at Community Unit School District 200, PDF). See the Book of Judges 19:17, too. ("Whither goest thou? And from whence comest thou?" King James.) The short story is overtly about a serial killer-sexual predator's prey victim, covertly about human sexuality's pushmi-pullya every-which-a-way wants and problems, and perils and delights, that is, sexuality's complications and conflicts. This somewhat dated short-story satire has yet to be outdone about sexual-serial killers, victims, and human sexuality. The times are ripe.
Title Town of Crows is especially exquisite for the symbolisms of crows, that the intimations of menace and mayhem are implied, an intimation of the setting's place, a small town, and without the novel's dramatic movement -- the plot pivots, incitement start, middle action, and end outcomes -- telegraphed. So somewhat about the novel's events, settings, and personas, and complications and conflicts, artfully expressed.
At this time, I might could read further, not as fully engaged a reader as I favor at the start, with hope that I will be hopelessly engaged within a few more pages. Stronger, clearer intimations therein of a central satire would engage me so.
[ April 26, 2018, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]
Posted by walexander (Member # 9151) on :
Okay, I'm confused, if you have run it through your beta-readers, it's been edited {Are we talking professional edit? Or second drafts?) three times, and have a literary agent telling you to revamp the first what-ever, and have already changed it to what they want, which means I assume they have interest in you as a client. Why are you running it on the forum?
You have already achieved the end goal, accept to have your lit agent find a home for it. No one in their right mind would go against what the lit. agent wants. This makes no sense.
I would never have a fragment adjusted by the forum if a professional has already done the work, especially an lit. agent and/or an editor. Not unless you have decided their completely wrong and want no chance of being published by them.
How do you know it's what the Lit. agent wanted unless they have read it, and said, "Yes, that's perfect. Exactly what I wanted."?
There are grammatical errors, run on sentence, choppy flow, and a weak hook line; it's hard to believe a professional has signed off on this yet.
I would have no clue of the story without your synop. first.
I am currently in a contest where novel entry's had to be anonymous, with no synop.
Holding the reader's attention is a foundation to first thirteen, but that's only my opinion, everyone is different.
Oh, I made the semi-finals on that entry, awaiting the final verdict in May. (fingers crossed.) Will let the forum know where I placed after I know. Til then trying not to jinx myself.
But M.T. if you need help that's what the forums here for, but if you already are sending/have sent in a full man. to the lit. agent. I wouldn't change anything until you hear back from them.
W.
Posted by Mountaintop (Member # 10916) on :
First off, thanks for the feedback. Secondly, I don't have a beta reader or readers, just a couple of people I know. Thirdly, I sent three chapters to the literary agent, he liked it, suggested I change the first paragraph. Yes, I've sent off the entire manuscript now, but that doesn't mean I have to wait around for him to get back to me. He might never do. But more than anything else, I'm confused about the sheer conjecture that my 13 lines has generated. I can't think of many book's first 13 lines that could get through such a firestorm. What about relaxing into a story? Doesn't that count?
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Hatrack's responders generally project general readers' craft sensibilities. The overall preference is for robust, lively, vivid, action-packed drama, from start to end, from a single agonist's inside-looks outward and inward viewpoint, short or long fiction.
The narrative point of view for that viewpoint is third-person limited-omniscient anonymous narrator, close narrative distance, past tense, indicative mood. And little, if any, narrator presence otherwise. High-brow readers, though, favor some or more narrator presence through strong and clear expressed tone at least; literature scholars, for instance, like Henry James' works' ample narrator presence and strong tone.
The fragment, to me, spans both narrative point of view preferences. Third-person limited is the most flexible narrative point of view, after all, and most apt for contemporary novels' long fiction and general readers' sensibilities.
For an example, the fragment patently is danger close to the viewpoint agonist's thoughts, is the agonist's internal and external perception sensations. Though third-person personal pronouns, she, he, him, her, critical readers know those as de re references: of the thing, not of the word, also, metaphoric de se: of the self. Those third-person pronouns are metaphors for otherwise first-person pronouns and third-person limited substitution, likewise metaphoric, for first person. Yet first person limits selective omniscience and omnipresence to a first-person narrator-agonist's in-person experiences. Third-person limited substitutes for first person and flexibly transcends first person's event, place, time, situation, and persona limitations.
So thoughts and descriptions given in third person yet metaphorically as if first person? An incongruency that wants reconciliation or taken at the face value of the words? For me, the incongruency persuades an easy cognitive code shift to, oh, this is the verbatim narrator-received reflections of the viewpoint agonist's experiences, expressed direct from agonist to reader without either writer or narrator filters. This is an agonist persona's intimate thoughts and perceptions, not the narrator's or writer's.
Taken at the words' face value, de dicto: of the word, only the narrator shines forth from an outside-the-narrative viewpoint and, thus, appears a narrator summary and explanation, a told report from a lectern of a lackluster drama, recounted as if a family vacation video narrated from in front of and blocks the screen's view.
After all, too many books and short stories to read as it is, and many other entertainment channel competitors, why this one over all others?
Yeah, I somewhat relaxed into the fragment, willing suspension of disbelief and all that stuff and junk. I detailed features above that distracted me from that dramatically lively relaxation ease.
Joyce Carol Oates' larger body of fiction meets literary scholar expectations, several meet general reader expectations, a few meet both, notably, Carthage, 2014, Oates' career finale, and Foxfire: Confessions of a Girl Gang, 1996, the latter first person, though, both with lively, vivid, dramatic starts to relax into and hopelessly engage.
Few novelists manage both audience niche appeal mischiefs and more as well.
Fragments offered for criticism here, narratives submitted to writing workshops overall, are subjected to and expected to receive both what works and what doesn't work responses for a given reader-writer and, by extension, screeners, agents, publishers, and eventually, hopefully, consumer readers.
And Hatrack's and many writing workshops' subtext principle is self-selection, the self's choice to post, to comment, to praise, to note strengths that work and shortfalls that don't work for the given reader, to question and challenge, to refuse, to decline, to reject, and take or leave what's given. Besides, workshop's truest benefit is what accrues to a critiquer-writer's writing craft growth. Hence, blunt, incisive responses to fragments and workshopped narratives overall are common place.
[ April 25, 2018, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]
Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :
Okay. So, what you're saying is that this fragment is essentially from a prologue. As in, this character is not only one the reader is going to follow into the story--she's going to be dead.
That can work. And might even be expected in some genres, I suppose.
Maybe it would be more beneficial to post--in a new post--the first thirteen lines of the chapter in which the story actually begins.
Posted by walexander (Member # 9151) on :
This is hardly a firestorm Mt. If you read back on other submissions you will find as E. has pointed out, everyone here gives you a straight honest opinion. If you are looking for sugar coating very few here offer that.
My above reply was based on your post reaction to Jay's comments. You made it seem you had already gotten all the feedback you needed. You said it had been edited three times, done the rounds with readers, and had been adjusted to suit the wants of a lit. agent. You told him to whoa his comments because of these things, so I just took you at your word, that this list had weight to it.
There is nothing wrong with a slow build, but overall there are a lot of mistakes in your first thirteen. Usually, E. does the breakdown line by line.
I'm happy for you that you have gotten the attention of a lit. agent. Most writers would take that as a very good sign they are on the right path, so kudos to you.
Now back to your post--I'm just going to do the line I like the most-
quote: She tugged on the collar of her pink polo neck jumper, bringing it up over her mouth, creating a warm cocoon of air inside.
Do we need to know it's a pink polo? It drags the sentence. Do you want the focus of this sentence to be on the jumper's color or her action with it? If you cut 'pink polo' it brings the focus to the next line of, "up over her mouth," Which has a nice subliminal arc to it. She is in a sense placing her own gag over her mouth.
Remember with mysteries you don't need to give too much away. She's wearing a neck jumper. In chapter seven the detective finds a pink neck jumper, the reader goes ah-ha, and wonders is this her jumper? I don't know, the same shirt, but we didn't get a color for it. What other clues are there?
Just a thought, and good luck with the agent,
W.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
The fragment reads to me more of a prelude than a prologue. Preludes are far less deprecated than prologues. Scene mode emphasis distinguishes preludes; narrator's backstory report distinguishes prologues. Preludes are a convention and common occasion of crime mysteries and thrillers. Similar-featured interludes, also a mystery and thriller convention, are distinguished from preludes by nonlinear timelines.