Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Should I Start?

This is topic Should I Start? in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

I wrote this an hour ago, and because not much time has been invested don't worry about picking it apart. Just looking for general feedback, anything from the story itself (which is surely hard to know at this point) to grammar. Also, wondering if there is something better to use than "bad-boy".

First Draft (7 lines):
Her 11-year old legs carried her quickly through the streets of the village. Her feet were bare, yet calloused, and so she felt no discomfort carving her way through these familiar streets. Finally she entered the market place, the sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them, and besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight.

Current Draft (13 lines? Does putting a return count?):
Sarai's 11-year old legs carried her quickly through the muddy streets of the old village. The air was humid and large rain clouds loomed overhead slowly gathering together; but that did not distract her.
Sarai had calloused, bare feet, and so she felt no discomfort carving her way through these familiar streets. Finally she entered the market place. There was a flurry of motion, somewhat different than the typical day at the market. The sound of Muloki, her older brother, and Rameum made it easy to know exactly where to find them long before she saw them at the other end of the market. It wasn’t as if this was their first fight; but this time something was noticably different different.

[This message has been edited by rahmuss (edited June 03, 2010).]

[This message has been edited by rahmuss (edited June 17, 2010).]

Posted by WouldBe (Member # 5682) on :

The opening posted was so short that it probably isn't enough for very useful crit. The limit is 13 lines; most have difficulty trimming their opening to that length. That said, here are a few comments:

Her feet were bare, yet calloused, and so...

The 'yet' suggests that it would be unusual to have calloused feet if you go around barefooted, so perhaps: Her feet were bare and calloused, so...

"market place": marketplace

"bad-boy": I guess it depends on the sort of character this is. "Bad-boy" ranges from mild badness to somewhat serious badness (I think) and sometimes has a playful feel. Some other words I can think of are thug, hood and tough. The last one is probably dated.

"Finally she entered the market place, the sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them, and besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight."

The first two clauses are a sentence run-on. The last clause sounds like it would make a strong stand-alone closing sentence for a paragraph or the opening, if it is expanded to 13 lines.

Update: I see that you're a new member. Welcome aboard. The "13-line" bit is important because that is the length of the text on the first page of a properly formatted manuscript. If the first 13 lines are weak, the legend goes, the editor or agent will read no further. That's why Hatrackers stress over the 'first 13'.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by WouldBe (edited June 01, 2010).]

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

quote:
The 'yet' suggests that it would be unusual to have calloused feet if you go around barefooted, so perhaps: Her feet were bare and calloused, so...

Good point. Thanks for the insight.

quote:
"bad-boy": I guess it depends on the sort of character this is. "Bad-boy" ranges from mild badness to somewhat serious badness (I think) and sometimes has a playful feel. Some other words I can think of are thug, hood and tough. The last one is probably dated.

This "bad-boy" is a second protagonist (two major protagonists, the brother and this bad-boy). So I don't want him to sound evil; but I don't want him to sound like the kind of guy that all the girls fall for because he's got that bad-boy attitude.

quote:
The first two clauses are a sentence run-on. The last clause sounds like it would make a strong stand-alone closing sentence for a paragraph or the opening, if it is expanded to 13 lines.

So, something more like:
"Finally she entered the marketplace, the sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them. And besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight."

quote:
The "13-line" bit is important because that is the length of the text on the first page of a properly formatted manuscript.

Good to know. Thanks again.

[This message has been edited by rahmuss (edited June 01, 2010).]

Posted by WouldBe (Member # 5682) on :

Finally she entered the market place,<<this is the run on>> the sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them, and besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight.

Finally, she entered the marketplace. The sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them. Besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight.

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

Ok, so this is what I will stick with for now then:

Her 11-year old legs carried her quickly through the streets of the village. Her feet were bare and calloused, and so she felt no discomfort carving her way through these familiar streets. Finally she entered the market place. The sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them. And besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight.

Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :

What is she seeing? It reads to me like the character is blind it is so bereft of descriptions.

What does the place look like, what does it smell like, and more importantly what is her attitude about the fight.

Slow down, deepen the writing, and watch out for adverbs.

Good luck with it,
~Sheena

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

quote:
What is she seeing? It reads to me like the character is blind it is so bereft of descriptions.

Wow, you're right. She could be blind as far as the reader knows. It describes how she knows things and none of it involves her vision. I'll definitely have to incorporate that.

quote:
What does the place look like, what does it smell like, and more importantly what is her attitude about the fight.

I just wanted to make sure I involved the protagonists in conflict as soon as possible, so I didn't want to get too descriptive; but I'll give it a try. Thanks for the insight.

How about this?:

Sarai's 11-year old legs carried her quickly through the muddy streets of the old village. The air was humid and large rain clouds loomed overhead slowly gathering together; but that did not distract her. Sarai had calloused, bare feet, and so she felt no discomfort carving her way through these familiar streets. Finally she entered the market place. There was a flurry of motion, somewhat different than the typical day at the market. The sound of Muloki, her brother, and Rameum, the village bad-boy, made it easy to know exactly where to find them. And besides, it wasn’t as if this was their first fight.

[This message has been edited by rahmuss (edited June 02, 2010).]

Posted by XD3V0NX on :

This is a rather short opening...It would probably help if you did include a little bit more.

Also, since it's so short, for me anyway, it's a little hard to give you a very good critique. Although, I see people before me have helped you, so I won't feel as bad in this one. But it's still something, right?

One of the things that caught my eye immediately when reading this was the run on sentence, which someone has already addressed. It can probably be broken down to two sentences, if not three.

I'm not entirely sure what "calloused" means, so I don't really find that word effective, either. It seems kind of redundant. I usually don't include huge words that are hard to find the meaning to in my writing. Maybe that's not a big word to you or some people, but I don't have a big vocabulary (and I've learned there is nothing wrong with that; if you've ever read a Stephen King novel, you'll notice he doesn't usually have hard to find words). If I don't know what that word means, there's bound to be a few others who won't, especially younger readers. Judging from the "11 year old girl" I would guess this book might be for young adults. And since I don't know what that word means, it makes the following phrase redundant, too. I don't really know what "she felt no discomfort carving her way through these familiar streets" has to do with her feet being bare, and "calloused"

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

XD3V0NX, thanks for your reply. You're right, it is for younger people (early teens) and though I myself do not have a large vocabulary either, I will definitely try to remember not to use words which might be too big. On the other hand I want them to feel that the readers are reading something intelligent. A tricky balance to reach I'm sure. By calloused feet I just mean that she has feet that have been hardened by continually walking on bare feet. They have become hardened to the point that the light gravel and small twigs she runs on are not a bother to her. Thanks again for the advice.

Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the word calloused. I think sometimes using one word, even perhaps an unfamiliar word, is better than using seven words to explain what the one word means.

Don't worry about simplifying for your audience, write the word that comes to you whether it have eight syllables or one, and allow the audience to rise to meet you. After all, reading new words is how you develop a vocabulary in the first place.

Good luck,
~Sheena

[This message has been edited by shimiqua (edited June 04, 2010).]

Posted by XD3V0NX on :

I get what you're saying, and I think I should have explained myself a little better. I really just meant don't look for huge words if you can't think of any. The first word that comes to mind is usually the best thing to do. But if you sit at your computer for like ten minutes, thinking of a word that would sound really intelligent and big...yea, I wouldn't recommend that.

And I get what you mean by increases your vocabulary, but if a reader is reading a book, especially a younger one, and he or she runs across a word he or she doesn't know, odds are he or she won't get a dictionary to look up that word (sorry, so many "he" and "she's"). It would be smart to have a dictionary while reading a book, but most people don't do that...at least, I've never done that. And I've never really seen others do that, either. But that's just me.

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

Sheena, Thanks for the encouragement. I think it definitely is a good idea to write down what first comes to your mind, at least for the first draft.

XD3V0NX, You're right, I don't think you should sit down and try and think of large words to sound more intelligent. I also think it's a good idea to write what comes to mind. And then doing your other drafts going back through you may think of other words which are larger; but which feel better to use.

Posted by macmicool on :

First of all I'd like to say, yes you should start. It sounds like something I might read.

You asked if there were a better word for bad-boy. What about the term rascal? I think it would fit you time frame better.

Rascal
n.
1. One that is playfully mischievous.

2. An unscrupulous, dishonest person; a scoundrel.

Would that fit? I hope that helps.

[This message has been edited by macmicool (edited June 10, 2010).]

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

macmicool,
Hey thanks. I think I will start. I'm prepping right now so that I can start in July. Learning about the characters, planning my plotline and major events. It should be fun and a learning experience if nothing else.

Rascal may work as well; but it also makes him seem a bit too mean maybe. I wish there was a better word to use because I really don't want to have to use a full paragraph just to let people know that he's not all that bad. Anyway, wish me luck.

Posted by Jesse D (Member # 3241) on :

First off:

Dumbing down your vocabulary is ridiculous. All people learn the definitions of word through context usage far more than they learn them through dictionaries, so reading an unfamiliar word is no problem typically. Even if the definition isn't picked up through the context, doesn't matter. Usually it's not so essential to the plot that the reader will lose all interest in the story because they don't recognize the meaning of a few words.

Second: "village bad-boy." This is a longer work of fiction, right? There's no reason to even characterize this guy yet. Just mention his name and move on. Later you'll have time to establish what kind of a character he is. No need to force it in right here. It slows down the pace of the chase scene here by inserting so artificially, and has no bearing on the fact that these three characters are running. Does he run somehow differently because he's a "bad-boy?" No. So put that in later.

Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :

Slow down, yes that's probably the best action you can take here. Don't even mention 'bad-boy' yet, I concure.

This is something I know I have to remember in my novel, slow down, don't try to give eveything at first. Excellent advise.

Posted by rahmuss (Member # 9124) on :

Jesse D & MikeL,
Thanks for the advice. I can see your point about not dumbing down the vocabulary, although I have read some books which used extremely intelligent vocabulary, and they were always difficult to read and not as enjoyable because of it. This first story is for younger teens though, so really I don't think I'll have a problem sounding too intelligent, even if I pull out all of the words for my 50-word vocabulary.

Also, good advice on skipping "bad-boy". I think it would be better to show the reader what he is rather than try to describe what he is this early on. Labels may mean one thing to someone, and something completely different to another person.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that they were all running together though. She is the only one running, going to find her brother to stop the fight. I added a quick change to imply that they were at the other end of the market; but any other suggestions would be nice.