Hatrack River Writers Workshop: 2nd attempt at Black Agnes

This is topic 2nd attempt at Black Agnes in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000412

Posted by didee (Member # 8055) on :

I thought I would try a complete change of first 13 and see if anyone one likes it any better than my first attempt. Thanks for all the help I have received so far.
----------------------------------------------------------
“You’re a fool Patrick Dunbar and I’m a bigger fool for thinking that our life will ever be any different. What need is there for you to be chasing after every Englishmen’s tail. Why is it you think that no skirmish can be won without you to aid it?”
Agnes’ black eyes demanded an answer. If her impassioned speech and hands on hips left any room for doubt, her flashing black eyes left none.
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar, master of Castle Dunbar, fierce defender of Scotland and champion in battle, stood before his wife deliberating the wisdom of platitudes. His wife had seen the battlefield and knew her way with a sword, he’d be a fool to take her lightly in her present state of righteous indignation.

Posted by tommose (Member # 8058) on :

quote:
“You’re a fool Patrick Dunbar and I’m a bigger fool for thinking that our life will ever be any different.Needs a comma or two (or maybe 2 sentences?) to provide a more natural cadence. What need is there for you to be chasing after every Englishmen’s s/b Englishman's tail You mean sexually?. Why is it you think that no skirmish can be won without you to aid it?”
Agnes’ black eyes demanded an answer. If her impassioned speech and hands on hips left any room for doubt, her flashing black eyes left none.
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar, master of Castle Dunbar, fierce defender of Scotland and champion in battle, stood before his wife deliberating the wisdom of platitudes. His wife had seen the battlefield and knew her way with a sword, and he’d be a fool to take her lightly in her present state of righteous indignation.

My only other criticism is that the dialog in the first paragraph feels a little forced. I can't explain it, but it's just my opinion. The use of the phrase "chasing after every Englishmen's (sic) tail" is uncomfortable, as "tail" in the current jargon implies a sexual pursuit. With that in mind, it seems like Patrick, in addition to having many other titles, is homosexual. I'm pretty certain this isn't your intent.

In all, though, it's nice. A few punctuation and grammatical notes, but it's nicely readable.

Tom

Posted by hinton (Member # 8053) on :

I sort of agree. I like it, and it is interesting, but starting with that conversation, or at that point in the conversation is a little too high on the scale for reading comfort. The word "Englishman" also seems out of place. I would suggest re-working the dialogue at the beginning. The body description in the second part is good, but also feels a bit forced. I think the effort is there, and the image you paint is solid, but it just seems so bold that it is too much too soon.

Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :

I was taught a while back that a scene should not begin with a character quote.

I, of course, disagree with this belief, but I'm nevertheless mindful about not overusing that practice. In particular, I do not like to make such opening quotes longer than one quick-hitting sentence.

Agnes' opening sentence was a fairly good poke in the eye, but she unfortunately kept talking, which dilluted the impact; I had to read through three sentences before I could confirm she wasn't talking to herself in a mirror.

Since you've built this scene around verbal communication, my suggestion would be to alternate between quotes and narriative...one sentence at a time, I'm thinking.

Other than that, Agnes sounds like someone one should not mess with...which was plenty to catch my attention.

Success with this story!

S!
S!...C!

Posted by Jericho (Member # 8073) on :

I liked it. I might have a quibble with a word or two, but it felt like it was supposed to feel that way.

I took the "tail" line to mean he was a homosexual and had a wife and lived in a bit over dramatic world and all of that really kind of intrigued me.

Posted by didee (Member # 8055) on :

thanks everyone, I really didn't have my brain in gear. I had no homosexual tendancies in mind at all when writing this, I meant chasing battles. They are Scots in 1337 who are frequently battling the English and Patrick is off to do battle once again leaving his wife to hold the fort quite literally. I had a different beginning in another thread and am not sure I am any happier with this one. I am loving writing their story but am struggling with an opening that will hook the reader, even though I have the rest of the chapter written(though it too needs reworking) I cannot get the opening lines to work for me

Posted by hinton (Member # 8053) on :

Hey, I would be happy to read the chapter for you if you would like any advice...

Posted by tommose (Member # 8058) on :

Didee,

As I said earlier, I really like what you have, and would read on regardless.

That said, this is just a suggestion, an example of what I was trying to say, and how I would change it. As a free opinion, it's worth what was paid (nothing), so please feel free to disregard it, or to tell me to mind my own beeswax.

I split Agnes' rant into two paragraphs, introducing her in the first. Additionally, you noted her "black eyes" in subsequent sentences, so I changed one to just her "glare." I also took a few liberties with the dialog.

Other than that, I just split some sentences and took out a few unnecessary words.

Tom
--------
"You're a fool, Patrick Dunbar! D'ya think that you're the only man who can kill the English? D'ya need to be in every skirmish for it to be won?" Agnes' black eyes demanded an answer.

"Or am I the bigger fool, believing that our life will be any different?" If her impassioned speech and hands on hips left any room for doubt, her glare left none.

Patrick, Earl of Dunbar, master of Castle Dunbar, fierce defender of Scotland and champion in battle, stood before his wife deliberating the wisdom of platitudes. His wife had also seen the battlefield and knew her way with a sword. He truly would have to be a fool to take her lightly in her present state.