Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Black Agnes (Any feedback would be great)

This is topic Black Agnes (Any feedback would be great) in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by didee (Member # 8055) on :

"The womans mad!How can she think to defend her husbands castle and lands with him away and only a few men and a handful of quarrelsome hand maidens to aid her?” William Montague, first Earl of Salisbury, drew an indignant breath and continued his tirade. “Unless she thinks to send out the scullery maids with their blades.”
The men laughed, they too had been amazed at the effrontery of the mistress of Dunbar.
“Here we are, the best King Edward has to offer. We’ve experience, supplies, weaponry! How does she think to hold out against our force?”
Montague paced back and forth, continually berating the name of the woman who had dared to challenge him.

[This message has been edited by didee (edited June 25, 2008).]

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Not bad, but didn't really hook me, possibly because I confused by the formatting, originally I thought it must have been a narrator telling us she was mad because there was no opening quotation marks for two paragraphs, but then there was closing quotation marks and I realised a character was speaking. Should have looked more like this:

"The woman's mad!
"How can she think to defend her husband's castle and lands with him away and only a few men and a handful of quarrelsome hand maidens to aid her?" William...

PS Also fixed up some apostrophes.

I suggest a quick redo for readability.

Grant John

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

You have an interesting setting. I could like this story. There is a bit of info dumping, or maybe not a real info dump but something very akin to it. There are a few "mistakes" that are easy to fix on editing.

There is no reason, that I can see, for the Earl of Salisbury would be ranting this way. You're trying to give us dialog to give us back history and it's falling flat as unnatural. A tweak and this could work for me.

The tweak - presumably the Earl has sent a demand for surrender to the Lady and she's refused. Show me that. Or show me the messanger reporting her refusal to him and THEN his explosion makes sense. Give me a few lead in lines to set the scene and this man's temperment and I'd be hooked.

My take:

Italics are things I think you could safely cut without changing context.

quote:
The womans mad! How can she think to defend her husband's castle and lands with him away and <-- don't need this. The fact he's referred to it as her husband's castle tells me he's not there and a bunch about the Earl only a few men and a handful of quarrelsome hand maidens to aid her ?” William Montague, first really the First or would he just be the Earl Earl of Salisbury, drew a n indignant breath and continued his tirade . “Unless she thinks to send out the scullery maids with their blades wouldn't frying pans be funnier?.”
The men laughed, they too had been amazed at the effrontery of the mistress of Dunbar POV issue - who knows this/who's telling me? If it's the Earl he won't know this unless they've told him.
“Here we are, the best King Edward has to offer. We’ve experience, supplies, weaponry! this seems info dummpy How does she think to hold out against our force?”
Montague paced back and forth, continually berating the name of the woman who had dared to challenge him.

A lot of the italics are things we'll assume or are already in the dialog. If you do a bit of clean up, this could be a really good scene.

[This message has been edited by kings_falcon (edited June 25, 2008).]

Posted by didee (Member # 8055) on :

Thanks for your feedback. I love the character I am writing about, she was a real woman who did defend the castle back in 1337 and I am enjoying writing her story, but as you can see I struggle a lot, still i have written one chapter and am in to the second, however I know it needs major work and the input you have given on just 13 lines, is incredibly helpful.

Didee

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

This seems like an interesting premise. I like the idea of the woman defying these men. That it's based in history makes it tht much cooler. I would read on hoping that I'd get to be in the woman's POV at some point, or at least closer to her than this, because that is what would interest me more.

Also, I understand this is a tirade, but it feels a bit like "As you know, Bob," a situation in which characters tell each other what they all already know, strictly for the benefit of the reader.

Posted by didee (Member # 8055) on :

Hi,

Would anybody be willing to read the first chapter for me? It is 3116 word count and far from perfect, but I would like to send it raw because it tells me what direction, not only this piece but also my other writing, needs to go in order to be enjoyable.

Thanks so Much for your help.

Didee

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

This is my last day before mid-year holidays so I have some time if you want to send it to me,

Grant John

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

I'd be happy to read. I'm just about to go on vacation for a week, though, without internet access, so I won't be able to get anything back to you until after next week, probably. If that's okay with you send away!

Posted by marchpane (Member # 8021) on :

I'm really interested in this - I'm a Joan of Arc fangirl so I'm a bit of a sucker for medieval Amazons! I've heard Black Agnes' story and am surprised that so little has been made of it in terms of literature. Mind you Elizabeth Chadwick or someone of her ilk is probably on the case

It's a good start. The punctuation needs a bit of cleaning up and I think some of the sentences could be worded better. What strikes me as the bigger issue is that, although you've thrown us straight into the action, it doesn't feel as though you're starting in the right place (this is similar to what kings falcon has said). We need more build-up - why are they attacking her husband's castle? Where is her husband? A preceding scene might also help alleviate the sense that the dialogue is being used to infodump.

I'd be more than happy to read this, although I must warn you that I'm going to be busy for a while and may not get round to it until Saturday. If you are still looking for readers, and don't mind a short delay, feel free to send.

[This message has been edited by marchpane (edited July 01, 2008).]