Hatrack River Writers Workshop: The Vessel

This is topic The Vessel in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

This is a complete science fiction novel of 118,800 words. The usual questions. Is there a hook, what's wrong/right about it. Is the POV clear. Be as harsh as you like. Would anyone be willing to read some? Thanks in advance. I'm not giving background - I've said more than enough on the Discussion about Writing board. Here's the first thirteen.

Please see a re-post below with hopefully a better start.

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Liam woke to see Colonel Fisk peer down at him. If he was there, something had changed. He was on Earth.

“Up,” Fisk said.

He sat, stretched his legs then stood. He was cautious, like a child that walked for the first time. His muscles ached after many days of lying on that bed.

“Follow me,” Fisk said. At the door, two of Vale’s soldiers stood guard. One handcuffed him; the other pressed a hand into his back and pushed him forward. He stumbled toward Fisk then put his head down and followed him. His head hurt, and his stomach ached with hunger.

He remembered eating last on the Soul Searcher – it must have been almost five days.

[edited because the moment I hit submit, I spotted a HUGE mistake. I can't stop editing.]

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited June 24, 2007).]

Posted by nitewriter (Member # 3214) on :

The first sentence is very confusing - if he (who?) was there...
He (who?) was on Earth. What is it that has changed? Was he on Earth or supposed to be on Earth? Is he there in person or seen through a monitor - this is not clear at first.

[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited June 24, 2007).]

Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :

I agree. The first sentence is confusing. First, using “peer” makes it sound like Liam woke and then Fisk looked down rather than Liam woke up to see Fisk “peering” down on him – Fisk had been peering before Liam awoke, while he awoke and is still peering down now. You see the difference?

Then the “he” in “If he was there” is ambiguous a bit. I have to stop and think about whether the he refers to Liam or to Fisk. And the “there” itself is confusing since I don’t know here from there or where either of them are. The next “He” is also confusing. Is it the same “he” or a different one and which one, Liam or Fisk” does it refer to.

[This message has been edited by arriki (edited June 24, 2007).]

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

Can't you tell I wrote that first sentance five minutes before posting. It is a but of a turkey. Ok. here's another go hopefully better:

See further down for alterations to clear up any confusion.

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Liam woke to the sound of Colonel Fisk's voice. He assumed Fisk's presence heradled their arrival on Earth.

“Up,” Fisk said.

He sat, stretched his legs then stood. He was cautious, like a child that walked for the first time. His muscles ached after many days of lying on the bed.

He remembered eating last on the Soul Searcher – it must have been almost five days.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited June 25, 2007).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

My take:

quote:

Liam woke to the sound of Colonel Fisk's voice. He assumed [that] Fisk's presence[<--Without the word "that", this seems like he took over Fisk's presence.] heradled their arrival on Earth.
“Up,” Fisk said.
He[He who? Fisk? Liam?] sat, stretched his legs then stood. He was cautious, like a child that walked for the first time. His muscles ached after many days of lying on the bed.
“Follow me,” Fisk said. At the door, two of Vale’s soldiers stood guard. One handcuffed him[Fisk? or Liam?]; the other pressed a hand into his back and pushed him forward. He stumbled toward Fisk then put his head down and followed him. His head hurt, and his stomach ached with hunger.
He remembered eating last on the Soul Searcher – it must have been almost five days [ago].

If you are not in a rush to get it back, I'll look over a chapter or two.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited June 24, 2007).]

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

I'm thinking that the fact that fisk says "up" and that liam gets up makes it implicit that he is fisk. Why add padding?

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

Thanks IB, I'll send the first two chapters over to you (about 5000 words).

Posted by DebbieKW (Member # 5058) on :

I agree with InarticulateBabbler that 'he' should be identified in "He sat, stretched his legs then stood" because he did not immediately stand up at the command. (i.e. "He stood." would have worked okay, but I was a bit confused by who 'he' was in 'He sat..." because either person could be doing the sitting at that point.) Why not identify him since it's causing a clarity issue?

I also had a pause at "One handcuffed him..." Handcuffed who? I guessed correctly, but the way things are worded, Fisk could actually be another prisoner (though it didn't seem likely).

My 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by DebbieKW (edited June 25, 2007).]

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

I will clarify the who's doing what issue by adding the name in both cases. I've also put the second piece of dialogue and the following action in seperate paragraphs. See below: This should clear up any confusion. Thanks.

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Liam woke to the sound of Colonel Fisk's voice. He assumed that Fisk's presence heradled their arrival on Earth.

“Up,” Fisk said.

Liam sat, stretched his legs then stood. He was cautious, like a child that walked for the first time. His muscles ached after many days of lying on the bed.

“Follow me,” Fisk said.

At the door, two of Vale’s soldiers stood guard. One handcuffed Liam; the other pressed a hand into his back and pushed him forward. He stumbled toward Fisk then put his head down and followed him. His head hurt, and his stomach ached with hunger.

He remembered eating last on the Soul Searcher – it must have been almost five days.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited June 25, 2007).]

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

darklight, i hate to chime in so late, but i have been following the posts. When you say "two of Vale's soldiers, is that the planet/government? are they Fisk's soldiers? it seemed a little bit of a nonsequeitor to have soldiers who do not belong to Fisk, without anything that mentions what or who Vale is.

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

deb - regards that point, Vale (a very important character in this story) is introduced within the next few paragraphs.

Its that whole I know but the reader doesn't thing again isn't it. As its from Liam's POV, and he knows Vale I thought it would be ok to put his name in, as they are Vale's soldiers, and Fisk works for him. Would it be better to say: Two soldier stood guard at the door then introduce Vale when I get to him by the end of page one?

I'm not sure.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

what if you called them "two of the general's, president's, colonel's soldiers, giving a more descriptive hint? and this really is just a nit. If nobody else was hung up on this, don't change it on my account. Sometimes I point things out not because they need to be changed, but to remind the writer that there should be an answer for this somewhere. Sometimes it's fun to be teased with info.

Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :

I agree that it needs to be clarified more that Vale is a person. just adding his rank would do that job. but it's no big issue. That said I'm hooked.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

I disagree. If you make the guards ambiguous, you violate PoV. The protagonist knows whose guards they are, and to hide that fact would be to intentionally withhold.

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

I want to thank everyone for all their input with this. IB, thanks for reading and the suggestions. I've made changes taking them into consideration and some others due to those changes.

Here's a slightly altered first thirteen. Hopefully the last. Thanks again.

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Liam woke to the sound of Colonel Fisk’s voice. He assumed that Fisk’s presence heralded their arrival on Earth.

“Get up, Freedman,” Fisk said.

Liam sat, stretched his legs then stood. He was cautious, like a child that walked for the first time. His muscles ached after many days of lying on that bed.

“Follow me,” Fisk said.

Two soldiers stood at the door, Liam suspected they were on Vale’s payroll. One of them handcuffed him; the other gave him a heavy push. Liam stumbled forward and came face to face with Fisk then looked down and followed him. His head hurt and his stomach ached with hunger.

He remembered eating last on the Soul Searcher – it must have been almost five days.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

Better.

My take:

quote:

Liam woke to the sound of Colonel Fisk’s voice. He assumed that Fisk’s presence heralded their arrival on Earth.
“Get up, Freedman,” Fisk said.[Much better. this is far clearer on what's happening.]
[Liam sat, stretched his legs then stood. He was cautious, like a child that walked for the first time. His muscles ached after many days of lying on that bed.<--Too much about his legs. Condense these two and get on with the story: Liam felt like a newborn about to take his first steps, as got up for the first time in four-and-a-half days.]
“Follow me,” Fisk said.
Two soldiers stood at the door, Liam suspected they were on Vale’s payroll, after all, Fisk was his stooge]. One of [the soldiers] handcuffed him; the other gave him a heavy push. Liam [almost collided with] Fisk [,][ then hung his head in submission and followed him.] His head hurt and his stomach [burned with hunger. [It had been five days since he'd last eaten -- and that had been aboard the Soul Searcher.]

IMO.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited July 03, 2007).]

Posted by DebbieKW (Member # 5058) on :

darklight, I like your latest revised version just fine. I'm sure people will have suggestions on how to make it even better, but these first 13 were clear and interesting to me.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

Again, thanks to all. I'm quite happy with the first couple of chapters now.

I have a question. Can I post first thirteen of chapter 4 of this novel. I ask because chapter 4 is the first change of POV and I'd like to get some feedback on my First Person POV.

Posted by WouldBe (Member # 5682) on :

Just a quibble: I've read several times that 'said' is invisible and non-distracting to the reader in tags, compaired to other choices. But reversing the conventional word order seems to make it more jarring, making it the last word in the sentence, as in "Get up," Fisk said. Maybe that's the effect you wanted, though.... Good luck.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

quote:
Can I post first thirteen of chapter 4 of this novel. I ask because chapter 4 is the first change of POV and I'd like to get some feedback on my First Person POV.

Go ahead, darklight. It's okay to post the first 13 lines of more than one chapter of a novel here (as long as the chapters are a lot longer than 13 lines each, of course).