Hatrack River Writers Workshop: World Domination 101--opening

This is topic World Domination 101--opening in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

Go Fish at Compass Heights High School was like anything else for the students there: necessarily complicated. Living in an enclave of superpowered people was just like that.
Altair wasn't just fidgeting because the linoleum was uncomfortable, or because he was nervous--it was a really good way to cheat. He had gotten much better at being an undetected cheat since Aloysius had started on this Go Fish kick. He generally didn't see any more than he used to--unlike the mind powers, he had to cheat the normal way.
"Orion, do you have a six?"
"Go fish."
Only Orion could have managed to make that an insult to his intelligence, musculature, and guardian angel all at once, in the mere tone of his voice.

--
My summary (posted earlier) is still a disaster area, but I think it's time to a plunge and ask for some critical feedback on the first few chapters of this manuscript. If you're not interested in this, skip following ramblings. You're welcome to just look at the fragment.

The story is weakest in the first few chapters, I think. A problem stemming from the fact that the humor of high-school boys playing Go Fish, because they can super-cheat was what started me on it, and it morphed into much more. I need someone to help me deconstruct the opening for making the actual plot enter more quickly, or at least pick up the tension in the beginning.

I have revised it quite heavily already, so readers who can assess its overall flaws are what I'm looking for. I can send a synopsis along with the chapters for anyone who's interested.
This novel is completed at 70,000 words. It's been heavily edited toward the front for pacing, but is in second draft (cleaned up line by line) throughout.

Someone who can dialog a bit about what they notice, and discuss fixes would be really welcome.

[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited May 30, 2007).]

Posted by Mauvemuse (Member # 5488) on :

I actually understood your 13 lines better than the writing after that *blinks.* I know you were'nt really asking this but I found it interesting and would definatly read on.
I don't think I would be much help with actually critiquing though.
Also, do you mean that the rest is written but the begining is the problem?

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

Superpower high school? Fun concept (just be careful w/several recent tv-series and hollywood films on the idea. Make sure you've got a unique angle or story to tell.)

As for specific crits on this fragment -

quote:

Go Fish at Compass Heights High School was like anything else for the students there: necessarily <remove> complicated. Living in an enclave of superpowered people was just <remove, lazy word doesn't add much> like that.
Altair wasn't just fidgeting because the linoleum was uncomfortable, or because he was nervous--it was a really good way to cheat. He had gotten much better <at cheating? at Go Fish? at Fidgeting? I lost the reference> since Aloysius had started on this Go Fish kick. At being an undetected cheater. <oh, is this what he got better at? This should probably go up with the other sentence...> He generally didn't see any more than he used to. <does he have super vision?> Unlike the mind powers <lost me. Does MC have super-vision, which is not in the category of "mind powers"?>, he had to cheat the normal way.
"Orion, do <missing you, or was this done for dialect effect?>have a six?"
"Go fish."
Only Orion could have managed to make that <what? lost the reference again> an insult to his intelligence, musculature, and guardian angel <early in spec fiction stories, I'll take everything you say seriously - so does Orion's guardian angel sit next to him while playing Go Fish, or is he somewhere else? wink, be warned, spec fiction readers are like this - they take you LITERALLY!> all at once, in the mere tone of his voice.

[This message has been edited by KayTi (edited May 29, 2007).]

Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :

I don't read the explanations so, this is my reaction just from the writing.

quote:
Go Fish at Compass Heights High School was like anything else for the students there: necessarily complicated I really don't see any high schooler playing Go Fish, so this sentance throws me out of the story before I even get there. Living in an enclave of superpowered people was just like that. what's your POV. I see this sentance as having a 1st person flavor, but in the next line I'm made to think it's 3rd.
Altair wasn't just fidgeting because the linoleum was uncomfortable, or because he was nervous--it was a really good way to cheat. what's the point of cheeting at Go Fish? What's at stake here? He had gotten much better since Aloysius This name is very difficult to read. It makes the eyes stop, you don't want that had started on this Go Fish kick. At being an undetected cheater. He generally didn't see any more than he used to. Unlike the mind powers, he had to cheat the normal way. I have no idea what you mean by this. Is he trying to say he has mind powers?
"Orion, do have youa six?"
"Go fish."
Only Orion could have managed to make that an insult to his intelligence, musculature, and guardian angel are you being literal here? What guardian angel. I thought these were a sort of superhero class of people. Plue there's too many adjectives here to soak in. It's kind of distracting cause I don't know what to latch on to all at once, in the mere tone of his voice.

Hope this helps...

Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

Aaaack.
That missing "you" seems to always get corrected in the wrong draft. I know I've fixed it more than once before! Apologies. It should now be no longer proliferating uncorrected.

...Blasted literalists.
No, I understand. ^_^ v
It seemed funny at the time...that's pretty much the story behind this whole manuscript. "It seemed funny at the time."
And my family (with whom I share my dubious sense of humor) all enjoyed it in its current state. I guess it's time to overhaul it for more general audiences?

Aloysius is a real name, btw, and he's only a minor (though pivotal[foreshadow]) character. And part of the fun and games was giving these guys whack names because the supers have their own subculture.
Of course, I'll keep everyone's opinions in mind. Of course.
And I don't mean to imply none of this will get fixed immediately, either. Some of it will. Once I've wrapped my brain about how in the world it could go differently.

Now off to edit my feed-back request. (Be it hooks or bios or critique guidelines, I'm really just no good at non-fiction!)

[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited May 30, 2007).]

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

There's humor here, and plenty of humorous opportunities in a story about super heroes. I definitely chuckled about the idea of Go Fish being a contact sport for supers. Or wherever you're going with it, but that's what I assumed the direction was.

I presume aloysius is pronounced like this: al-oh-wish-ess. Sort of. But yeah, it is a mouthful. Can you do one with fewer soft vowels? Still a ridiculous name (because, after all, isn't that part of the fun of being a writer? Being able to name all these "babies"?) but maybe something with a few more consonants?

But yeah, spec fiction readers do take you literally. I think OSC says this in Writing SF and Fantasy, and gives some great examples. Once I read that, I realized how true it was - as I tend to read EVERYTHING this way even stuff that isn't supposed to be spec fiction. Then I find myself having to go back and consciously remember "Oh, this isn't a spec fiction piece, I should assume they're speaking allegorically here." Amusing, if nothing else. But all this to say, there's stil plenty of leeway and humor opportunities with literal interpretations. Frankly, a guardian angel who is corporeal and sits next to a super is a really funny idea. Make it a sidekick. Smallish, fairy-like, and ill-tempered because the darn super keeps getting himself into trouble. Maybe a narcoleptic guardian angel, lack of sleep and all. Always dozing on his shoulder. Tons of room for fun is my point.

I'm no expert at humor writing, but I know there's an art. No matter what, when you write humor, you have to expect that it just won't work for some people. I think there are a few great humorists who can make everyone laugh, but the rest of us have to hope we make the people we intended to laugh (that is, the primary audience for our work.) If I recall correctly, this is teen-oriented. Make teens laugh, and you're in like flynn. That may mean some of us will say "Huh? I didn't get it" often. Finding some good teen pre-readers is helpful. Any sci-fi clubs at local high schools? Robotics clubs? English teachers who would be willing to let you present in class one day, give out your email addy if anyone's interested in giving you feedback? Teen reading groups at local bookstores, libraries, or churches?

Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

Thank you, KayTi. That was encouraging. You begin to pick out the people who don't get your style (and I don't mean obnoxious grammar-wrecking or subtlety, but references, word-choice, things that in conversation you would find in common or not). And then you have to pick out when it just isn't working.
It's really the best if I can sit in the room, and hear if there's any laughter, but that's an option open only with my family, right now. I am looking for some people a few years younger than me who will look at it. But I hate to be pushy. I'm trying to build up the friendships, currently. And am waiting on one friend who's got the ms.
I really don't know what to do about Aloysius. (You nailed it with the pronunciation and I had no clue until my mother started referring to him!) We shall see.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

I'd be glad to read whatever you have. I have been learning "How to place editorial comments in the margins" from Inarticulate Babbler, and it would be fun to practice on YOU! Probably couldn't get it back to you before this weekend, but I would be sincerely delighted, and I liked your premise. I checked with my kids, and they say "Speed" is the game at HS (also very popular in jails across the country, I hear. Go figure!) if you can't find someone who plays, and you are interested, i can get one of the kids to explain it to me, and let you know. But it involved slapping a lot of cards down very fast, and may provide even more opportunities for super-powered cheating than Go Fish

Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

Okay!

I do know Speed. I play it with my siblings. The point is that it's < eyeroll > *Go Fish*. Later on we feature rummy; but without cheating, and without forfeits.

Thanks.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

Name him Machiavelli, or something else ridiculous with more consonants.

Or something greek - Aristophanes...Oedipus (ha ha ha!)

What age is your teen target? I have a (mature) 10-11 year old reader in my reader bank. I might be able to get her attention (she likes sci-fi), however she is not prolific with feedback. Mostly just "liked/didn't like" kinds of feedback.

Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

Like/Dislike would be nice.
I think I've actually overshot my audience a little...I'm guessing middle school is probably it. And precocious readers. (That's me and most of my friends, anyway!) Go ahead and ask if she wants to, let me know.

[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited May 31, 2007).]

Posted by tigertinite (Member # 4803) on :

Humorous writing is difficult, it's all in the timing and sometimes that's difficult to get when you're writing something. Despite your insistance to the contrary I think that your story could be for any age group from the first 13, ever heard of Terry Pratchett? Or Patricia Wrede? Douglas Adams ring a bell? Humor is appreciated by all age groups.

Bytheway, I'll read it if you want me to.

Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

I'll choose to take that as a compliment, not an implication about my literary naivete (^_^).

Sorry. That whole post was worded funny. I'm torn between interpreting that last "by the way, I'll read this if I have to" or "if you're still looking readers I might serve". Which is it? ?_?

Sure, I'd like to have your opinion.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

Anytime someone offers to read, assume that's because they WANT to. Most of us don't have time enough to torture ourselves with things we don't WANT to read.

And even though I like your concept and think it's going places, I'm not offering to read because I just don't have time right now.

So, point is - when someone offers to read, the most appropriate answer is usually "Oh thank you!"

Posted by ArachneWeave (Member # 5469) on :

I did thank, in the e-mail.

Serves 'em right for offering if they didn't mean it, right? When crime is it's own punishment, the innocent can rest easy.

I guess I'm enjoying the lighter tone of the thread here. Most critique threads (anywhere!) are fraught with seriousness.

Posted by tigertinite (Member # 4803) on :

Wasn't attempting to say you were unaware of these authors, I was just reminding you of them. . .mainly because I tend to live under a rock, and sometimes I forget minor details, like say the name of my favorite author and such. . .I hate it when that happens, I'll remember the name of the book, the plot, the characters, but not the author. Sorry if I offended you.