Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Out of the Deep

This is topic Out of the Deep in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Jesse D (Member # 3241) on :

This is a new novel i just started, and I haven't gotten very far at all. I am posting the first thirteen line of chapter one, as it stands now, although there is a prologue as well which gives more background. My main question is: without further background, does the following make sense, and does it make you want to know more?

Granor came to us from Buce, the closest land in Overworld to the Misty Deep. In the Temple, it was a land of controversy and contention. Many of its leaders had risen up against the Temple, attempting to take it by force, to turn it to their own will. A deep and heated debate had raged among the Wordpriests for centuries over whether to allow the Misty Deep to take Buce, to write it out of existence, to remove the Wordholds that kept the Deep back. So far such suggestions had been labeled as heresy undermining the First Tenet: “The Misty Deep is sacred; mankind cannot encroach upon it to diminish its holiness, nor shall they permit it to be stained by human lands.”
That Granor came from such a land seemed no trick of fate, nor

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited May 26, 2007).]

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

in the temple, it was a land of controversy and disension.

I am thinking that this does not sync up quite right, it should be something like: In the temple, this land was a topic of much controversy and disension. Because otherwise, read literally, you would be saying the land is inside the temple. You know?

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

My take:

quote:

Granor[<--What is this? A Who? A what? There's no indication] came to us from Buce, the closest land in Overworld to the Misty Deep. In the Temple[of What? I ask because it's capitalized like it is a proper name.], it was a [land<--"realm" might be a better word.] of controversy and contention. Many of its[<--[Not quite clear on this. Do you mean Granor? The temple? Another?] leaders had risen up against the Temple, attempting to take it by force, to turn it to their own will. A deep and heated debate had raged among the Wordpriests for centuries over whether to allow the Misty Deep to take Buce, to write it out of existence, to remove the Wordholds that kept the Deep back. So far such suggestions had been labeled as heresy undermining the First Tenet[Of what?]: “The Misty Deep is sacred; mankind cannot encroach upon it to diminish its holiness, nor shall they permit it to be stained by human lands.”
That Granor came from such a land seemed no trick of fate, nor did it seem any more a coincidence that he could read the Script before being taught.

Who is narrarating? Whose PoV?
It is a lot of interesting concepts, but it is like a nice summary than a hook.

This is fifteen lines, it should've stopped with"...no trick of fate, nor"<--this.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

in the Temple, the question of this land was a topic of much . . . Honorable Inarticulate one, do you see what I mean?

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

There's a prologue too? can this just be added to it? Seems like a lot of info for a first 13. I know every book doesn't *need* to start with action, but some type of action is helpful in getting people started, involved, curious what will happen next, invested in the characters. Too much backstory and the sound the adults make on Peanuts cartoons is running through my head.

I think I agree with the other poster aout the "In the temple line." I guess my comment is that I got lost there. Too many new terms in the first sentence, I don't yet have a frame of reference for them, so in the second line when you switch to the "it" pronoun, I've lost track of which new word "it" is referring to. Does that make sense? You could introduce fewer new words in the first line (trailing out the details more slowly over the course of the first chapter) or you could repeat the noun that you're going to use the pronoun "it" to refer to in that second sentence. "In the Temple, Buce was a land of ..."

Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :

I agree, this is more summary of backstory. It's not a good idea to start with backstory.

Especially when I have no information to ground me into this world (like POV) so I have a hard time caring.

Posted by Lianne (Member # 5491) on :

Yes, too much information for me too. I want someone to like or care about to get me interested in your story. I would cut this out stick it at the prologue bit of the book so that the people who need a super abundance of info can read it but the rest of it can get to the juicy bits. There are juicy bits?
lianne

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

Why does this story need a prologue? I'm a prologue hater - I go on tirads about them when I am reading books. 'Why can't you just go into the story?' that's what I say. And background story? Is it necasaary? This actually tells us nothing but about the place its set in.

Is there not a better place you can start this story, with some action and something to make us want to read more?

Posted by Lolo (Member # 5361) on :

I agree that this is too much info to start with. I started skimming after about the first line. I personally need a character to sympathize with before I care about what kind of world he's living in. In other words, once I care about the character, then I'm interested in what matters to him. We need some information about setting, of course, but this reads more like a history as it is. There are a lot of interesting ideas in there--I'm intrigued by the magic of wordpriests and wordholds--I just would care more about them in relation to your character(s).

Posted by Jesse D (Member # 3241) on :

The narrator is a priest named Tubias - he's kind of an archivist, and that's the voice I'm trying to use. Yes, I know it's a lot of information, but given the fact that the narrator is relating a story with details that are somewhat familiar to his audience, I felt that it was necessary to do so. Maybe I should start with the first thirteen lines of the prologue (which explains what the Wordpriests do). If this violates some rule, moderator(s), please delete the following:

Let’s begin with ink. Like blood, ink is the life-giver, the life-sustainer, of words, of stories, of poetry. Here, in Logogeas, in the Temple, it gives life to so much more: it gives life to the universe.
The ink must be crafted by our masters, brewed from the finest leaves of the taralabias trees, tainted by lamb’s blood, colored by the juice of an amberfern, then heated and cooled thrice. Heartink, it’s called: used by the Wordpriests in their craft.
The pen is the father, taking ink, bringing it to the paper, the womb, the mother. Pen penetrates the paper, spills its ink, and in the union new life is created. We, the Wordpriests, the Keepers of the Eight Worlds, commit ourselves daily to the

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited May 30, 2007).]

Posted by Wolfe_boy (Member # 5456) on :

The prologue is nice, but I think we should remain focused on the first 13 of your first chapter - prologues are usually and should ideally be unnecessary to understand the main bulk of a story, but they can at times provide interesting foreshadowing or world building information.

Okay, so you're saying this is a priest speaking this information to a gathered group of his peers? Students? Regardless, the way it is written now is that he is relating this information to the reader, not to his in-book audience. If he is speaking to the reader then there needs to relate it as if to an outsider. If he is speaking to an assembly of people in-book (the way I think you intended it to read), it would be helpful to have some narration as to his thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. Is he nervous to be speaking before a crowd? Is he a wise elder who can speak with authority? Is there debate about what he is saying? Using first person past seems like it would fit this situation.

Now, other than all of the stuff I've just mentioned, which should help increase the clarity and readability of your first 13, there still isn't a hook here yet. Maybe Tubais is attempting to persuade his nations leaders to go to war against Granor? Or maybe he is recounting the adventures of two of his students who overthrew Granor, and this is a scene from when he first met them?

Long story short - this requires a little work. I rather enjoy the idea of there being a sacred and powerful place in society for writers of history. If you can clear up the significant technical issues, I'll come along for the ride, at least for a little bit.

Jayson Merryfield