quote:
A tiny bundle of brown, wrinkled flesh, the baby screamed as the nurse held it beneath its arms.[<--This sentence is clunky, at best. Suggest: Nurse (name?) carefully cradled the newborn baby. She had cleared his nostrils, gently cleaned him off, and had just clamped his navel off.]
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
The last line was what finally caught my attention but because I had some of the issues with the other 12, I probably wouldn't read further.
I don't have a sense of POV and it comes across a bit too cinematic for me. It seemed like you were striving for a full omni voice but didn't quite get there.
Calling the baby "it" really bothered me. Even in full omni or 3rd limited, the narrator knows what gender the baby is. If Corrine is supposed to be the POV, she wouldn't think of her baby as "it." She'd be asking what the baby's gender is.
The language is a bit stiff and formal i.e. "Corrine Bain need not hear the words."
Having had two kids, this doesn't ring true as a delivery room scene.
If the scene is the birth of a savior or child of prophecy watch out for the cliche police. Based on the 13, I assume that's where you are headed.
Posted by jenniferhb (Member # 5409) on :
I think a scene about a restrained woman giving birth is an interesting, compelling beginning--I do want to know who she is and why she is there. I know from recent experience that newborns these days are often plopped right on the mother immediately after birth, covered in goop and all (and without the blanket). But this is for the benefit of the mother (and for bonding, etc). Would a restrained woman be allowed the priviledge of holding her newborn? I also had a difficult time envisioning how she could hold her newborn with her arms restrained--wouldn't her arms be restrained at her sides? It seems odd that they would restrain her arms in a way that would allow free range of motion. Wondering about this sort of took me away from the story.
Corrine = great name; I always have a hard time with names.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
IB did the medical fact check I was going to.
The white goo that newborns are covered with is I believe called vernix. Calling it white grease is similar, but we're spec fiction readers - when you say "white grease" particularly in the opening, we think "hmm, that baby is covered in white grease, what kind of alien is it???!" 
Watch out for us spec fic readers, we take it all literally. By the same token, his skin spotted with blood...well, the streaked with blood is more accurate from my personal experience. Spotted with blood makes it sound like he's got polka-dot blood spatters, which would tell me he's BLEEDING. I think you're just conveying the overall birth/delivery type of thing, in which case his skin being streaked with a little blood would be accurate. More than a little blood and the mom ain't saying much while the surgeons go to town, so you may wish to specify a small quantity of blood in some way. Again, if this is set on an alternate planet or an alien birth, this info may be wildly inappropriate. You be the judge, take what works, leave the rest.I think I get from your first 13 that you want to have the nurse treating the baby really no-nonsense, so she wouldn't go babbler's direction w/carefully cradling and all that. I suggest sticking the "it's a boy" the nurse said (in a monotone...or with no emotion) as the first line. Try it out. The descriptions of the boy can wait until after we hear mom give him a name.
The "she held him. The restraints." could be two sentences. It would be helpful to have more understanding of these restraints, and why her skin was red and raw (thrashing labor?)
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
AHKKK I love the title!!! Perhaps I will steal it. Apologies.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Thanks for the feedback.
I started out calling teh baby HIM, changed it to IT and will possibily change it back.
Kayti - yes I could have said vernix but I didn't want the reader to be thinking 'what's that?' instead of reading. I agree though that streaked is a better word than spotted.
nitewriter - I understand that you would want to know about the mother, but it's the baby who is important in this scene and I didn't want to go into depth about her at this stage. I counted 13 when I posted it - don't know how it ended up as 8?
IB - All the major clean-up work is done as we enter this scene- perhaps I need to alter it to make that clear. I played around with that first sentance, couldn't really get it right.
'standard procedure to clean out the baby's nostrils, and clean off the baby before handing it over to the mother.' and scrub its head with a nail brush to remove the white grease - as they did with my son!
Jennifer - (and kay-ti) wouldn't saying more about the restraints be using valuable words explaining things that don't really matter hugely to the story? would to say; '...restraints that allowed her to move her arms to hold her baby to her chest...' for example (or something along those lines) be too much (when I use far too many words anyhow!) or would that clear up the confusion?
I thought of the name at last minute - I didn't like the original one I had for her.
kings_falcon - no, it's not the usual delivery room scene - no one particularly wants to be near mother or child. She already knows what gender the baby is, something I need to make clearer along the way perhaps.
'If the scene is the birth of a savior or child of prophecy...' Its quite the opposite actually. Both his parents are quite criminally insane and, chances are, he will be too - and very powerful (they have certain abilities of the mind) so he is presumed dangerous.
zero - don't have to apologise - there's no copyright on titles!
With the previous point in mind - as this was written number three of six, do I need to fully explain what this particular world of people can do re: their mind; or is a quick (two or three sentances max) explanation OK?
I'm trying for omni for this scene. The mother's POV comes into it, but the scene is being watched from outside the room by a man who's from their equivilent of Social Services, who has to find a new home (off-world) for the child.
I'll re-write with suggestions in mind.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:
I counted 13 when I posted it - don't know how it ended up as 8?
I count 12, which is why I didn't cut it. I'm curious about how you are counting now.
You do know about the reply box holding exactly 13 lines, right? If there are spaces between paragraphs, then the 13-line fragment will extend beyond the reply box, but your fragment only extended two lines beyond the box, and you had three spaces between paragraphs.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
On my Word doc (Courier New font 12-point) it came in as thirteen lines and one extra word. Not sure where the eight lines came from.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Here's a re-write. Taking into account everyones comments, and trying to get as much informtion into this as needed, as clearly as possible, this is what I have. Not sure if this will be a few words too long but I'll have a go.
Corrine Bain pulled angrily at the restraints around her wrists as she watched the nurse carelessly clean her screaming new born son with the towel. She wanted to hold him, to comfort him now as they’d told her she could have a mere five minutes with him before they took him away - forever.
The nurse offered the baby to her finally. With her voice flat, she said, “It’s a boy.”
Corrine didn’t need to hear her words; she knew she would have a boy even before the embryo was implanted into her womb. She took the baby and cradled him in her arms, then pulled him close into her chest with care.
“Caladan,” she whispered – the name that she and his father had chosen for their son. At full stretch, the restraints dug into her already red raw wrists.
[edited to add missing word!]
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited April 17, 2007).]
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I like it better, however, there are a few more questions raised. MY take:
quote:
Corrine Bain pulled angrily at the restraints around her wrists as she watched the nurse carelessly clean her screaming new born son with the towel. She wanted to hold him, to comfort him now[. not needed--> as Capitalize: T]hey’d told her she could have [needed?-->a mere] five minutes with him before they took him [needed?-->away] - forever.The nurse offered the baby to her[,] finally. [With (Suggest: Her voice was cold and flat[. she = The nurse] said, “It’s a boy.”
Corrine didn’t need to hear her words; she knew she would have a boy even before the embryo was implanted into her womb. [Why? Is she like the Bene Gesserits in Dune: does she have the ability to choose which sperm her egg lets in?] She took the baby and cradled him in her arms, then pulled him close into her chest with care.
“Caladan,” she whispered – the name that she and his father [I'm confused. "...the embryo was implanted..." gives me the impression that she didn't know his father. Maybe you should give us more of what she's feeling, instead.] had chosen for their son. At full stretch, the restraints dug into her already red raw wrists.
quote:
...the scene is being watched from outside the room by a man who's from their equivilent of Social Services, who has to find a new home (off-world) for the child.
If you want to go with a Social Services Agent's perspective, that could have a lot more possiblities. For instance, it would be easier to explain -- as one agent tells another why they are taking the baby, while they watch through the window on the door -- the mental powers of Caladan's parents. You could show us what you want us to see, and have the agents hear her name Caladan, without struggling on the how could she know aspect -- it would already be answered by one agent explaining it to the other.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 17, 2007).]
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
IB - you certianly have a point there. I've just worked out that the first three hundred or so words of this scene is about the mother and child - the other seven hundred and so from the POV of Vandar Holt - the Social Services agent who is with the governor of the maximum security prison Corrine Bain came from to give birth. I can see the possibilities of doing the whole scene from Holt's POV - a lot of what happens he FEELS rather than sees and it makes him very uncomfortable so could be interesting to write.
I would probably have to introduce a third charcater for the explanation stuff but that wouldn't be a problem. I think I'm going off to do that now
(and before I forget - stupid question, but how do you do that qoute thing?)
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
The only thing that throws me off is "Corrine Bain need not hear the words." because it shifts me hard from past to present tense, and then back again. It breaks the flow.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
quote:
(and before I forget - stupid question, but how do you do that qoute thing?)
You type [ and Quote and then ] at the beginning, and [ then /Quote and then ] at the end.
There is a section marked *UBB Code is ON to the left of your reply box, it has a list of codes.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:
how do you do that qoute thing?
I guess I'd better check the FAQ topics and make certain they are visible (that question is answered there).
What you do is highlight what you want to quote, then copy it (with Ctrl-C or the copy option in the edit pull-down menu), then paste it into your reply box.
Then, right before what you are quoting, put the word
quote
inside a set of square brackets [ ]
and at the end of what you are quoting, put the word
quote
with a / backslash in front of it
/quote
inside another set of squqre brackets [ ]
The reason I can't do that here is that you won't see my examples because they will make a quote box.
If you want to know how to do other things with code (like italics and bold), you can click on the link to the left of the reply box that says
*UBB Code is ON
and it will show you the codes for other things you might want to do.
I hope that helps.
PS--the eight lines is probably because of the size of the window your web browser uses. If you make your web browser window narrower or wider, you may see your lines change to more or fewer, respectively.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
I think the rewrite looks very good. On the knowing it was a boy (agreed with other poster that the revised language is still a little challenging) - what about "She'd always known she would bear a son..." or some type of "Corinne always knew she would have a boy." kind of thing. If your series has an element of destiny/prophecy to it, this may play right in.
As for explaining the backstory of the kid and his potential, I have no idea how you're structuring your whole series, but yes - you do need to do a little bit of explaining in each book about what's transpired, if for no other reason than to catch your readers back up on who's who and what's what. However, I don't think that has to happen in the first page or two of a story. I've seen some authors hold off for a chapter or two even, and some elements of the story they wait until it's an appropriate time and then put in some type of explanation, reminiscing, exposition, etc. to catch the reader up.
Good luck, seems promising!
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
The rewrite is better but you could make the hook stronger.
If you are trying for full omni (the ability to see into everyone's head) and not 3rd limited omni (the ability to see inside one character's head), you aren't there. This reads as Third Ltd Omni. The difficulty with Full Omni is making the transitions clearly and without confusion.
If someone is watching the scene, I need to know that. I don't get the sense that the nurse is afraid or concerned about mother's or child's abilities. She just seems bored. Let me know something is different is going on here.
You do need to tell me a sentance or two about the mind powers because each book should be able to stand alone even if part of a series. It will help with the hook. Right now I'm thinking insane girl or girl in a prision of some sort having baby, what's the big deal.
Showing this scene from Holt's POV might help you convey the information. What does he think about the situation? Is he concerned about dumping the kid off somewhere rather than killing him? I wouldn't do the "so you know Bob, Corrine is an evil robot monkey and by law ERMs aren't allowed to keep thier children" because it is an info dump.
But Holt thinking:
"Even after the ordeal of child birth, Corrine Bain looked like a china doll. He had a hard time reconciling the innocent face with the monster that had murdered 1000 people by shattering thier minds, but the dossier he carried confirmed that Corrine was the Black Widow. The child's father has slaughtered millions with his biological weapons. Thier child had to be taken away from Corrine before she could twist his soul."
Works better for me. Now I know the stakes and why I should care. Obviously my made up plot details aren't your plot but . . . maybe it helps.
I agree the "embryo implanted in her womb" makes it sound like a medical procedure intervened rather than a more traditional mating. Why would someone breed the criminally insane? Why would the wardens allow them to breed by choice?
" . . .pulled angrily at the restraints . . " - "angrily" isn't needed because the action suggests the adverb.
I'd like some sense of who the people are who are going to take the child away. Changing the line to:
"to comfort him now as the evil robot monkeys had said she would have a mere five minutes with him before they took him away"
doesn't add much to the word count but does help me figure out what is going on and why I should care.
The "forever" at the end of that sentance is probably unnecessary and a bit melodramatic.
Same thing with the "with care" when she holds him.
Bigger Plot/ Plausibility type questions for me (unrelated to the 13 so you can ignore them or email me separately if you want):
If mom and dad are criminally insane how did the manage to conceive a child?
If the child could be so dangerous why not just kill him rather than relocate him?
If "they" are going to take him away would they really give her any time with the child? Especially where she has some "powers" and might be able to influence him?
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Thanks again for the comments - they've been very helpful.
I've tried to write the scene using Holt's POV but I couldn't seen to get it right. It seemed like I was trying to explain too much too quickly - when I'm actually after a little mystery so when we meet up with Caladan years later, we learn more about him/his parents/his past/where he is from ect as he learns it.
I've just finished reading Self-editing for Fiction Writer and it says not to have dialogue for the sake of informing the reader - that's what it seemed I was doing. It also says that you don't have to tell the reader eveything - to leave some mystery, which is the idea behind this first scene - of course, it also has to draw the reader in. Finding the right balance is going to be difficult.
Thanks too, for letting me how to do that whole quote thing.
Posted by jenniferhb (Member # 5409) on :
Nice job with the revision. I do think this scene is a good way to begin--is most of the story about Caladan when he is grown? And these scene is sort of a prologue? If that is so, it works for me from this POV...
I thought also that you might start off with the line "It's a boy." Something like this:
"It's a boy," said the nurse in a flat voice as she carelessly scrubbed off the baby with a grey prison towel.
Corrine pulled angrily at the restraints around her wrists, desperate to hold her newborn son for the short time she was allowed before they took him away forever.
Or something like that. She might then spend the time while she is holding him gazing at him, thinking about how he came to be and how she always thought he would be a boy, etc.
Just a small thing: the phrase carelessly clean did not really work for me, because if you are really being careless, you are not really getting anything clean...
Anyway, good job!
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
quote:
when I'm actually after a little mystery so when we meet up with Caladan years later, we learn more about him/his parents/his past/where he is from ect as he learns it.
So why show us this at all? If the main story is years later and about Caladan figuring out who and what he is, it might be better NOT to show this and have the reader learn it as Caladan does. Of course, it's your call.
For Holt if you want him as the POV, don't have him explain it to someone else - the "As you know Bob" concept. Get into his head. He's going to be thinking/feeling something about the event and those thoughts can give us some of the details you want to bring out. My four line example of Holt's possible thoughts conveyed the information you wanted without having any dialog. It's not the only way to do it. It's probably not even the best way to do it, but if you sink into the right person's POV you can convey the information without sounding like you are.
Check the OSC example on this site about beginning with the "wrong" character. It really helped me figure out where and with whom I needed to start.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I really didn't intend to suggest "as you know bob," as a concept, but someone explaning it to someone that was relevant and didn't know.
What I'm wondering is, what made you think that Vandar Holt was important enough to begin with. This is a question you should answer to -- for -- yourself. If you still feel compelled to begin with this, and you can determine why, you should have a lot easier of a time conceiving the true beginning.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
IB - I know you didn't mean I write it like that. To introduce Holt and the Governor of the prison, I did try to have them talk to one another but it didn't work.
quote:
is most of the story about Caladan when he is grown? And these scene is sort of a prologue? If that is so, it works for me from this POV...
Half of the story is about Caladan, the other half another story that runs alongside it. They are linked, and finally come together halfway or so through. So this is I guess a prologue but I don't call it a prologue.
Holt does come into the story again years later but only a small part so does he warrant being important enough to begin with? I don't know?
I have decided to scrap the second scene completely. Maybe I should start with scene three. I will add it beneath this post and see what people think. This beginning would immediately introduce a major character in this story - and some of the others too.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Here's the alternate beginning. Any thoughts?
Dean Silverman looked out from amongst the partygoers. Something wasn’t right. It wasn’t anything he could see or hear. It didn’t have a smell or a sound. It had a feeling. And it made him uncomfortable.
Gentle chatter and the clinking of glasses drowned out the soft background music. Dean rubbed tired eyes then looked around the room in search of the Director; his boss.
Why am I here? I don’t even like Valentino.
Dean stepped backwards and stood by the wall; he hoped to blend into the décor and disappear. He wished he was anywhere else but there. He worked for Vale; didn’t deserve to be a guest at his son’s birthday. The pretence of the party bothered him enough without adding to that the sense of guilt...
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
quote:
Dean Silverman looked out from amongst the partygoers. [Where?] Something wasn’t right. [It wasn’t anything he could see or hear. It didn’t have a smell or a sound. This is redundant. It (had=gave him?) a feeling.<--Tell us more about this-->] And it made him uncomfortable.[How? Why?]Gentle chatter and the clinking of glasses drowned out the soft background music. Dean rubbed tired eyes then looked around the room in search of the Director [Valentino?]; his boss.
Why am I here?[<--Italics] I don’t even like Valentino [<--If this is not the Director, who is it?].
Dean stepped backwards and stood by the wall; he [hoped or tried?] to blend into the décor [and disappear<--redundant]. He wished he was anywhere else but there. He worked for Vale[Who? or What?; [he] didn’t deserve to be a guest at his son’s birthday. The preten[s]e of the party bothered him enough[,] without adding to that the sense of guilt...
If you expanded on the first paragraph, and his feelings -- or the mental abilities? invading Dean's head -- I think this would draw me in.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 21, 2007).]
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
InarticulateBabbler. I apreciate all the feedback you've given on this - thank you, and everyone else who has commented.
Just one quick question - which beginning do you think would be the best place to start?
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
I liked the last beginning the best. While there is some clarification that is needed and some tweaking to be done.
I liked the sense of wrongness. It was the hook for me. Because of that I didn't have an issue with the next few lines where the MC is trying to figure out what is wrong. I would expect the sense of "wrong" to color everything else but it gets lost in the next few lines.
Dean can look around and wonder all these things but the wondering should be related to the "wrongness."
So you can slow down and fill in a bit of information IB suggested without losing me. All you have to do is keep me believing that my questions about the "wrongness" will be answered and I'd keep going.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Thanks - I like this opening, but I've just reaslied that I don't like the way I've written.
By the end of this scene (actually, by the end of the first page) you find out what is wrong specificaly, but as far as Dean is concerned, his whole being at the party is wrong.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
quote:
By the end of this scene (actually, by the end of the first page) you find out what is wrong specificaly, but as far as Dean is concerned, his whole being at the party is wrong.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. If you aren't in any rush to get a crit back, you can shoot me an e-mail with the first chapter included.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
That would be brilliant - thank you. I'll mail when I have finished editing.
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
If you aren't in a rush you can email me the first chapter too.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
I was going to say: 'Thank you, it'll be with you both in a couple of days.' But... after struggling with it for three days - I decided to scrap it, scrap almost everything I've written and start from scratch. Which I have done.
I am 76,000 words into what I plan to be a 120,000 word novel, the first of the series which will probably be more like twice the amount I originally wrote because they will be much shorter. I should get it finished by the end of May.
I will post first thirteen then, and hopefully be looking for readers for the first couple of chapters.
Thanks for all the help on this though.
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
why are you scrapping something that so many people are showing an interest in, Darklight? It sounds like you have time to write when you want to, and that's a lot. now that you have us all intrigued, you can't let the poor woman give up her kid without letting us know how it turns out - and what did she do wrong, anyway? Are they psychics? Prophets? how did they know her son would be a savior? or did they lock her up and take him away for some other nefarious reason? come on, give.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
debhoag. Thank you for your comments. I'm not scrapping the stories as in throwing them away and forgetting about them. They're all just way too long. I have actually almost finished a re-write of the first book in this series [Absolute Zero is number three]. I have dropped the seed in that one for this story so its all set up in a manner of speaking.
I like these stories a lot and have put many years into them; it will be back, hopefully better, and shorter!