Hatrack River Writers Workshop: WotF Critique Group -- 2012 Q01

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Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

This was a critique group for writers that entered a story into the first quarter of 2012 in the Writers of the Future contest (29th year).

After the end of the quarter, entries submitted have been responded to as thus:

Honorable Mentions:
Louis Doggett (LDWriter2)
Ken Cassell (OWASM)
Frank Dutkiewicz (snapper)
James A. Hanzelka (Utahute72)

Congratulations to everyone that submitted!

If you participated in the group and got some kind of award for this quarter, let me know and I'll add you to the list.

These are our Woo-hoos!

(Original posts from the quarter shown below)

[ August 02, 2012, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: WriterDan ]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

WriterDan
LDWriter2

I'm not sure of a story idea yet but maybe I can use a story that I wrote but haven't gotten around to revising yet. A nice SF about a guy maturing and learning there are people he can trust.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

This message has been edited by... Wait, there's an echo coming.

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited September 27, 2011).]

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

I'm ready to get back into the WoTF game. Have a story I'll probably use for this already.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

Seems like a "write" of passage to be part of WotF:

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti

[This message has been edited by anarresti (edited September 02, 2011).]

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello,

count me in. I'm already started.

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
MBW

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Oops!

Okay, here's the list with my name added:

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
MBW

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

Thanks, Axe. I'm still holding out to see how your does. Best of luck to you. Not that you'll need it.

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm

In for yet another quarter. Now to think up a story.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Really, 2012 already? You're killing me here.

I'm in.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72

[This message has been edited by Utahute72 (edited September 02, 2011).]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I was thinking of doing a SF story again. I have a couple of ideas plus a couple of new stories that I could use that could use some help.

Since my muse seems to be stuck on Urban Fantasy these days I would love to do one of those but I'm not sure how they feel about it. The one or two I sent in didn't get very far but that could be because of my writing. There's a dark UF(that's almost redundant but not for me) I've written that I think is one of my better tales. I suspect they don't mind dark stories.

I know I have a better than average, unique UF story inside of me. The one's I've written seem to mostly pretty much normal for that genre.

Hmm, come to think of it, the one I sent in for Q4 could be considered UF even though not quite the usual fare for UF.

But I have time to think.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

An idea that's been percolating has just gotten juicy. Sitting down to make notes and outline now.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Just finished my first draft. 12,000 words in two nights. Now I'll let it sit and steep for awhile. I wonder what it will look like when I next shine the light of day on it.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Go Ken. That's nuts. Good for you. I find the best ideas I have are the stories I write the fastest.

What kind of story is it? Can you give us a teaser?

Even if you don't end up in my group, I'm happy to read your story.

Axe

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

The title refers to a person who can nullify magical ability. It's an epic fantasy in a small package.

Thanks Genevive. I forgot about that commandment.

[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited September 06, 2011).]

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Owasm, if that's truly your title, you should remove it from your post so there's not an issue with WotF and anonymity later.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Ken wow, already and so long too. Double wow.

I haven't even decided what to do yet.

You do have time to let it sit for a while.

But a mini- epic fantasy... hmmm sounds interesting. I may want a crack at it too.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I'm gonna drop this recommendation in for the whole group. Someone suggest to me that I get the small book, "Self-editing for Fiction Writers". Probably figuring out I'm a science guy, not an English major. And the book is useful, but while I was looking for it I found one called, "The First Five Pages", that appears to be more generally useful. It's written by a guy that is a slush reader and he outlines what doesn't work and will get your manuscript culled out early. It was an interesting read and made me look differently at both my stuff and pieces I'm critiquing.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Ute,

I haven't read the first, but I believe it's on my shelf of how to's. I've read the second tho. Noah Lukeman I believe.

Here's the reason I've interrupted this thread to mention this:

It should be read on a periodic basis.

I've read some how to books that I enjoy while reading them, or that inspire me at the time, but I put them away, never to be read again. The First Five is more of a reference guide, full of little tidbits that can be forgotten over time. In fact, I think I'll skim it again before sending in my 4Q entry. (Only 3 weeks left!)

Axe

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello,

I have a question.

Can I resubmit a heavily revised previous WotF entry? It's almost twice the length of the original entry (new title, totally new opening, etc.) I'd like to consider entering it in the 1Q2012 WotF contest. And no, it has not been submitted to this critiquing group.

I reviewed WotF rules, but saw nothing that dealt with re-submitting previously entered pieces.

Your insight would much appreciated.

MBW

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

MBW, this is from KDW herself.

"[resubmitting a rejection]... Usually it's better just to write something new, but we had a revised story win last year ("The Hanger Queen"), so it can be done. You only have one chance to win each quarter, though, and you want to use your very best ammunition."

I leave it up to you, sir.

Axe

Posted by Corky (Member # 2714) on :

I'll second Utahute72's recommendations. FIRST FIVE PAGES is a great guide to what to look for when you prepare to do rewriting.

Each chapter deals with a different thing a story may be rejected for, and as you proceed through the book, the chapters deal with more sophisticated and advanced writing aspects to check.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello, Axe;

you cited 'The Hanger Queen' as an example. As a pilot, I wonder whether this refers to a device for hanging clothes, or, whether it referred to an aircraft that always stayed inside...

As for what is my very best work, I dunno. Pieces that I've put my heart and soul in, polished until I thought it gleamed, have, once subject to the tender mercies of the critiquers, received the recommendation that they be killed. And pieces dashed off, which I'm almost embarrassed to share, have been praised. I just don't know what is my very best ammunition... Sigh! Something about 'the eye of the beholder.'

Anyway, it sounds as though there is precedence to allow a re-tread into the contest. Thank you!

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

@mbwood: I believe that "Hangar Queen" was about a sentient bomb that never left its hangar. If I'm remembering right. It's been a while since I read that one. As for resubs, I know that you can't resubmit a story if kdw has given you a semi-finalist critique on it, and I'm also pretty sure that you can't resubmit it if it was chosen as a finalist. Other than that, you're good to go. My only experience with resubmitting a story was one that got a straight reject. And the second time? Straight reject.

Best of luck.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Thanks for the recommendations, Utahute72. I downloaded both to my kindle and started reading THE FIRST FIVE PAGES.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Just some Intel for those still writing. I've been reading the most recent anthologies and it's struck me that 90% are war or conflict related. By conflict I mean the humans acting as either peace makers or heirarchial conflict such as political or religious authority imposing their will on others. I've found no multiple character POVs. I did find two set in other than far future times. One set at the time of the civil war that stretches back to ancient Egypt and on set in 1960s Japan. Only one I would consider fantasy, Laura Toms, and one with some magic in a futuristic setting.

Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :

OK, I'm going to give it another shot this quarter, and see how things fly. HOpefully things have settled down.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42
mrmeadors

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Ah what the heck. I'll jump in this time.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42
mrmeadors
JenniferHicks

Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :

Okay, I am back... and in it to win it!

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42
mrmeadors
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Well it may be a moot point for Genevieve and Axe. Here's hoping anyway.

[This message has been edited by Utahute72 (edited September 08, 2011).]

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Utahute, I hope you're right. But I'll crit throughout the quarter regardless of the results. If I'm in, I'm in.

Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :

And besides, one winner last year also received an HM after winning. (It got missed.)

Oh, and I'm in.
WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42
mrmeadors
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited September 08, 2011).]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Utahute, I have the first one mentioned or one with a very similar title. It's by two people whose name I forget at the moment.

mb, You're not the only one to feel that way. You won't know what makes a good story yet. Or so a couple of pro writers have said. Even if you sell a couple you won't know why they sold. Eventually you will know enough to know what works. I assume how long that is depends on the writer but it's a while. Or again as a couple of pros have stated.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Anyone know how WotF reacts to FTL drives? Do they stand on current science or have there been winners that have applied proper hand-wavium and gotten away with it?

Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :

Yeah, I'm out of my mind.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42
mrmeadors
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan
Crank

S!
S!

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I used a novel drive in my HM from last quarter.

Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :

An alien race in my most recent HM entry made use of wormhole travel.

In an upcoming novel, I'm going to expand on why this form of interstellar travel is an insanely bad idea.

S!
S!

Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :

Grrr..... Someone expressed interest in another project of mine, which is longer and will take up a lot of my time. And of course they couldn't have told me BEFORE I signed up for this quarter. Long story short, I am taking my name off this quarter's group for now. It may turn out that I will have time, but i'm not going to risk it and have people's groups messed up. Sorry! Hope everyone does well!! good luck!

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
genevive42
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan
Crank

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Utahute Interesting to have a novel in a short story.

What do they do have to read the novel to get the ship go FTL?

Sorry, I couldn't resist after it took me a second to get the novel approach.

And MR, I hope it's someone who can publish it.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Yea, LD, all they had to do was read the novel and they were transported at FTL.

Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :

LD--Yeah, me too!!

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Sorry, after some consideration I've realized the story I want to write isn't really suited for WotF. Besides that, I really had paused on shorts to work on my novel series. So I'm taking myself off the list. Hopefully it won't matter in a month anyway.

Good luck everyone!

WriterDan
LDWriter
Axeminister
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan
Crank

[This message has been edited by genevive42 (edited September 14, 2011).]

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Hi all,
I'm here to remove myself as well.

I'm going to do (not try, do, there is no try) NaNoWriMo this year and I'm going to need every spare minute in November.

Plus, I'm planning to write a sequel to the novel I haven't finished yet... So I'm going to need October as well.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan
Crank

Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :

After a short hiatus, I am back, and my story is nearly finished so I should actually be on time.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan
Crank
Dark Warrior

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Good DW especially since I haven't even come up with an idea yet.

I have a couple in my head but trying to decide which one is the problem... especially since I have two stories that are short, one will be very short, but I could expand them. Both are SF and deal with more emotional conflicts. One does have a space battle the MC gets caught in by accident but that is not the main conflict.

I better decide like today since I have only ten days or so before the first trade off. But that's plenty of time for me, once I get going on it.

Of course since it looks like it's okay to send in one again as long as it wasn't a finalist, there's one I sent in five years ago that received a HM. And it probably needed some cleaning up with nitpicks and grammar, well maybe not grammar so much. I seemed to be doing better back then. but commas may have been a problem.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited October 02, 2011).]

Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :

Without fanfare or unnecessary drama, I am withdrawing my name from this quarter's reading group. Reasons will be discussed in a future WotF entry.

WriterDan
LDWriter
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
JenniferHicks
Bent Tree
Brendan
Dark Warrior

[This message has been edited by Crank (edited October 03, 2011).]

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I figured it was because you were cranky.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I wasn't quite sure which WotF thread to post this in, but this is the group that's writing now, so ...

There's a very interesting post by a "guest" at KDW's message board. This person has gone pro without ever having won the contest and is reflecting on the quality of entries vs. how they performed in the contest vs. how they performed elsewhere.

I can't make a guess at who the guest is. Maybe someone else can. But if this person's experiences in the contest show anything, it's that what you think is a great story is not necessarily what other people think is a great story, and vise versa.

http://webnews.sff.net/read?cmd=read&group=sff.writing.writersofthefuture&artnum=5844

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

My guess was Dr Phillip Kaldon of Michigan but his record is far more extensive than mystery writer. I suspect he wouldn't mind me posting how he's done, considering he published this on his blog

The Results:
Rejected 6
No Call 1
Finalist 3 (1 published in WOTF XXIV, 2 in one year)
Semi 2
Quarter 10
H-M 15 (Quarter+H-M = 25)
Total 37
Subs 38 (WOTF Q4 2011 in)

Post-WOTF:
Published 6
Readings 3
Website 1

..according to his post, Joni believes he holds the record for most persistent. He has two SFWA sales which makes him still eligible. Notice the rejections. He received one of those a quarter after a finalist entry.

So as these two rock solid writers have said...submit, submit, submit.

note: it could be still Doc K, considering mystery writer only mentioned how they did starting 2007. Of course, he mentions nothing about a F&SF sale on his blog.

[This message has been edited by snapper (edited October 06, 2011).]

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

38 entries / 4 quarters per year = 9.5 years.

Yeah, he's the most persistent.

Thanks for posting that Jennifer. I like how they mention wishing they could meet everyone in person. That was a nice touch.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Meeting KDW, Joni, the judges and fellow winners in person would be a big bonus to winning the contest (especially if a couple of those winners were fellow Hatrackers).

In other news, I'm going to give the alt-WotF crit group a try this quarter, so I'm out over here. Good luck, everyone!

WriterDan
LDWriter
Osiris
Anarresti
mbwood
Owasm
Utahute72
Bent Tree
Brendan
Dark Warrior

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

So Jennifer is gonna go hang with the cool kids.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Nothing against all you fine folks, who are much cooler than me. I like the idea of a group for short stories only, as opposed to novelettes and novellas, which I don't write.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

I'm a glutton for punishment and will be participating in both groups.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Since my story will most probably be under 8,000 words the thought to join both groups crossed my mind. Have to think on it more.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

So it's almost the 14th. Anyone ready? I might be a day or two late. I had to add some stuff to get the emotional tension I wanted. And add a double meaning to the title.

Speaking of that are we splitting into groups or is the number small enough to send to everyone? Or are there even more people taking a bye this quarter or going to the revolting, um, that is rebellious group?

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited October 14, 2011).]

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Yep, I'm ready.

Is there a distribution list made up?

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!

mbwood

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

I'm also ready to go.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

I could send what I have now.

I think Dan needs to divide the groups up, or we could just divide it as well. Since there are 10 people, the first 5 could send to each other and the second 5 could do the same, as done in previous groups.

[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited October 14, 2011).]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

No comments yet I see. So I don't feel so bad about mine not being ready.

I have mine done but as I said before I'm going back over it adding some stuff for an emotional punch--I hope-- and revising as I go along. And I ended up changing a couple of details which means I am doing more revision than usual as I change conversations and descriptions. I plan to have it done Sunday night at the latest. I can receive stories before then

Could have been done by now but played around too much instead of writing, as I mentioned on another thread, and my wife has been putting new pics up for her site on an online mall... mostly me not writing.

Oh and so far mine is 5,600 words long. Might be over a few over 6,000 by the time I get done.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited October 15, 2011).]

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

Ah! I'm a genius. Sorry, I had this on my to-do list and totally space-cased it. We're a bit lean this quarter, so only two groups, I think. Here we go. Groups for the first round of crits:

Group 1:
WriterDan
Anarresti
Utahute72
Dark Warrior
mbwood

Group 2:
LDWriter
Osiris
Owasm
Bent Tree
Brendan

So, even though my story for this quarter isn't done, my dissertation is nearly complete. Which is a good thing. As my final deadline is just around the corner.

Get swapping, people!

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Two things here:

So I found another rule that WotF didn't mind being broken. Hiding something from the readers and/or not being clear who was who in the first couple of pages.

Don't want to go into too much detail but in one story you don't find out who the MC is for sure for a few paragraphs... unless I missed something of course. Second you don't find out the driver of an ambassador is a Lt. in the Marines for a few pages. She is just thought of as the driver by the MC. Over all not a bad story at all I liked it except for one little detail toward the end. Or there is something else hidden from the reader until the end too.

Second item: does anyone know what they think of stories in different times? Obviously they don't mind futuristic times but how about a western--SF fusion or fantasy-western? I came up with an idea today about a Urban Fantasy that takes place in the 1800s. I thought it might be a good WotF story because it's more about a guy teaching a kid why he shouldn't bully others. So it's more an emotional and relational story than a Fantasy.

Actually, I wanted a UF western but as I went over it in my mind it came out differently what I was going for. Still a good idea though.

It would be for Q2 2012.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Hey Writer Dan nearly congrats on that dissertation being almost done. Good going so far but don't stumble or freeze up.

As to the swapping thing

Do we have to trade car keys for it???

Sorry about that, couldn't resist.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

LD you might want to read "The Candy Store" in one of the anthologies (24 or 25 I believe). It was set in the turn of the (last) century old west. There is also one set at the time of the Civil war.

I think I recognize that first story you mention, but I didn't think the technique of waiting to reveal who a secondary character was seemed too out of place.

[This message has been edited by Utahute72 (edited October 16, 2011).]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Well, I could be a bit over sensitive about hiding things from the reader since I have been accused of doing that a few times but at the same time that is how I felt. It wasn't just because of that one event though. Half of the situation seemed to change and it seemed like the tone of the story changed about that time.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Mine is sent.

Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :

quote:
Don't want to go into too much detail but in one story you don't find out who the MC is for sure for a few paragraphs... unless I missed something of course. Second you don't find out the driver of an ambassador is a Lt. in the Marines for a few pages. She is just thought of as the driver by the MC.

If we're thinking of the same story, I read the italicized paragraph as I would a quote; it shouldn't bear the burden of identifying the MC, setting up the story, etc. I think the story could have survived without it personally, but it was one of the stronger stories (IMO) in the volume.

For me, witholding is about two things:

1. Am I correctly inhabiting the mindset of the POV character?
2. Am I playing fair with the reader's expectations?

In relation to point 1, I believe the story you're thinking of did both 1. and 2. In relation to point 1, we generally don't think of people as "doctor", etc. We're more likely to think of them by their name and this story does that. The military designation comes up in dialogue doesn't it?

In point 2, I don't believe any POV witholding is done with the intention of tricking or manipulating the reader for story effect. I can't remember the story exactly, but I generally remembered that the character thought of facts as they would naturally occur to them.

Regards,

Nick

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello,

I got a piece from Utahute72, and I've distributed my submission to the group. If anyone didn't receive it or had trouble opening it, please let me know ASAP.

Other than that, I'm ready to crit pieces for the Wotf 2012 Q1 contest.

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
MBWood

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

I've received from Louis, BentTree and Owasm.

I've critiqued and returned Owasm's and Louis's. Please let me know if you did not get it, as I've had issues with sending mail.

I've sent mine out to everyone in my group.

[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited October 19, 2011).]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Osiris, I had to double check but I haven't received any crits yet for my story.

But I did send one out tonight and I have received four stories. But I believe two are from the other group. Even though I still haven't sent my story to anyone over there.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited October 20, 2011).]

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello,

I've sent out my piece and received one from Utahute72.

I'm still waiting for stories from WriterDan, Anarresti and Dark Warrior. C'mon, show me your stuff! Let's get something good going!

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
mbwood

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Life is funny.

I have a story I thought I might ask to share with you for Q1 2012, now that I've received initial feedback this week and finished the final proofread last evening.

But it is the same type of story I submitted in Q4 2011 (with the same protagonist) that just received a "form" rejection.

I believe I'll need to do a Monty Python: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNyoAMqRXQ

I believe to place or win, short unique (preferably futuristic) science fiction (not long urban fantasy) is a better bet. If I think of something, then actually write it, I'll be back.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Dr. Bob,

It might not be the genre or length that caused KDW to reject your Q4 story. It could have been a character she didn't like, or how you wrote the conclusion, or one small specific plot point that rubbed her the wrong way. (That last one was the deciding factor that caused one of my stories to be a semi-finalist instead of finalist.) The point is, you don't know. So if it's a choice between entering the story you have ready for critique or not entering at all, my advice is to send in your story.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

I second that. Except for the sting of an impersonal rejection, which is the worst that could happen, sending a story in can't hurt. And who knows? This time it might click.

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

I've written one critique and am midway through the second. I'll turn over my own opus later today.

Why yes it is today already!

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I have received one crit so far. I will see what the next few crist say but I may not have stressed the emotional tension, I was trying for, enough.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

I don't like the idea of sending out rejections as the quarter moves along, and this is the primary reason: Discouragement.

At the end of a quarter, you've already sent in your next story. You haven't started the next-next one, so when you get rejected, you can change your way of thinking if you'd like and go from there.

But 3 weeks into the next quarter and you probably have a solid foundation for your current story, possibly even a first draft. The last thing you want to do is wake up at 5am in the dark and cold and sit in front of the computer and write a story for the same folks who just told you no. (At least, not for a day or two.)

Dr. Bob. You can write. It's that simple. If your story didn't click, it was the story, or the genre, or something tangible like that, but it wasn't your writing.

Always remember, Dr. Phil received a rejection(s) after being a finalist. He's been entering nearly 10 years now. He's gotten everything you can get from them but a win. And I mean everything, including published finalist. So the rejection was clearly not his writing...

Urban fantasy is probably the kicker. I can only think of one story that even comes close, and it had something to do with the shadows of the dead from the holocaust. That was urban. And it was kind of a fantasy, but it wasn't urban fantasy.

If you decide not to send a 2nd one of that genre to them, that's fine, but please don't send nothing because you think your writing isn't good enough. It totally is, and there's a bunch of us here who can attest to that.

Did you see the post Jennifer put up recently about the guy who just pro'd out? He straight up sold a rejection to another market.

Anyway, sorry to hear about the form letter. Give it a little time then write an urban fantasy on another planet. That will increase your odds.

Axe

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

I actually do like the idea of hearing the rejections as they happen. If my story is rejected, I'd rather I have the chance to immediately send it to another market rather than wait three months while it collects dust.

As Axe pointed out, a rejection can sell to another market. So, the faster I can cycle a story through markets, the faster I can either sell it, or figure out that it needs more work before it can sell anywhere.

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

Yesterday I received my WOTF Q4 form rejection. Today I sent you all my Q1 first draft. I'm ready for the flesh wounds.

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Thank you all for your comments.
Like most, I have plenty of experience with rejection, I was only noting how I dislike rejection without feedback.

When seeking publication, it is also important to study what an editor likes and publishes. I read two WOTF antholgies after I submitted my story for Q4 and have read and/or critiqued some of the fine stories that were Winners and/or Finalists for Q2 and Q3. The UF I've mostly been writing, I believe, is not WOTF material, even if the writing and story were (hopefully) adequate.

In addition, as the "Cool Kids" will tell you, short stories are preferred over longer lengths. A quick search at Duotrope will confirm only F&SF will consider fantasy stories of >10K, and most of these by established authors. The self-centered concept that I will write what I want, for my own enjoyment, is fine; but if I want to have others actually read my work, then I need more discipline and pay more attention to what the editors/publishers accept.

I put aside my second novel to write shorter pieces in the belief that publishing short stories would better open doors to publishing novels. These are two different beasts, however. Nick Tchan kindkly read my newest (12K) story this week; and he astutely notes my novelettes demonstrate a novelist's and not a short story writer's technique; for example, a slowly rising (even undulating) tension/pacing instead of the short storyist's steady incessant building to climax.
I'm big on foreplay, I guess.

My UF tales follow a detective fiction trope as well, where the story begins with something happening to someone else (a client, friend, victim) and not the protagonist. Only later, after taking the case, does the hero face personal risk/conflcit. This is fine for longer novels, not so good for short stories.

Thus, I'm going to try something completely different for my next WOTF submission. I do have a science background along with my religious one. I'll try mixing the two in a future setting.

As for my UF stories, I don't know what I'll do yet. If anyone would like to read the UF tale I've just completed, just let me know.

Thank you for the feedback.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

We've seen some really good stories getting rejected from these contests based on personal preference by the readers. I wonder if there isn't some mechanism where we could package them and put them out for sale using the electronic media. Even IGMS has some quirks in what they accept.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I think every market has some quirks. Some are stated in the guidelines and some aren't.

And from what I understand some editors have their own quirks. Which is one reason we network.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Okay I've sent two crits for this group, but I have received only two stories again from this group. I think I have one other crit to do for the other group and I will be done with everything I have.

I will double check to make sure but that's the way it looks.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

So far I've read and returned stories from Annaresti and mbwood. If anyone else has sent me one let me know so I can look for it.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Guys, I'm going to have to pull out of this group, I've just got too much on my plate right now both in and out of writing. I'm still sticking with the other group because it is less of a load of work.

I did manage to critique work from LDWriter and Owasm and also received critiques from them.

Brendan, you critiqued my work, and I will certainly still critique your story when I receive it.

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

I have received crits from Utahute72 and MBWood. (many thanks!) I still owe a crit to MBWood. WriterDan and Dark Warrior ... looking forward to receiving your stories!

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

I have three crits to do. Going to try and get them done tonight. If there's time left afterward, I'm going to try and get to my story. Just need to get it out and worry about fixing it on the back end. I need to keep telling myself that. It'd sure make things a heck of a lot easier when I find myself with free time...

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Is it too late to hop in on this crit group? I know I'm two weeks late, but I've got my story finished. If not, I could always wait until next time...

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

I don't see why not, but it's up to Writer Dan. We are approaching the second round of crits.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

Fine with me, Teraen. Our next round comes up on Nov 7th. I'll add you to Group 1. Thus, as per our usual M.O., you'll be sending to those listed in Group 2 for this round of crits. I'll repost the list and instructions on the swap day.

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Great. See you all then!

By the way, is it a gross violation of the rules if I am in the WOTF for cool folks group also??

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Two things. I need to know the writer of a 12,000 plus word story with a bit of magic and wondering around in it. I must have deleted the E-mail it came with. I did that last quarter for one story but this time I don't recall deleting any.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

@Teraen: The only qualification that we have in this group is that if you submit a story for critiquing, then you do your job and submit full critiques for the stories that are sent to you in a given cycle. However, if you decide to participate in both groups you may want to remove your sweater and glasses on the way out the library door. I've heard those guys don't take too kindly to reminders of where they came from. Extra packs of cigarettes are stashed outside in the hedges. Check the large urn on your right.

[ November 04, 2011, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: WriterDan ]

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

WriterDan,

Wait, so is there a set number of people we swap with? Last time I did this I got stories from about a dozen people, but nobody really critiqued mine. On the flip side, I don't want to be overwhelmed with more crits than I can do.

Is it a quid pro quo, or do we swap with all members of the group?

Thanks

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

WriterDan, don't forget I owe you like 2 crits from past quarters, so if you finish your story, you may send to me at will.

Axe

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

@Teraen: You'll be swapping with 5 people (from Group 2). So, you'll have 5 critiques to do (as long as everyone in Group 2 has a WIP), and you'll receive 5 critiques of your work (at least you better), for this round. That's the way we currently have it set up.

And Axe. I haven't forgotten you. [Smile]

I've just forgotten my story. LOL. Thanks for the reminder.

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Sounds fun. See y'all folks on the 7th...

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

I've only received work to read from MBWood and Utahute72 and have written both critiques. If anyone else has something for me to read, send it on.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

Here's the groups for this round of swaps.

Group 1:
WriterDan
Anarresti
Utahute72
Dark Warrior
mbwood
Teraen

Group 2:
LDWriter
Osiris
Owasm
Bent Tree
Brendan

If you're listed as a member of Group 1, send your story to those listed in Group 2.

If you're listed as a member of Group 2, send your story to those listed in Group 1.

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Group 1-ers - Osiris said a few posts back he was pulling out of this group.

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Actually, come to think of it, since Osiris pulled out there is enough for 5 in each group. We should pull someone from group 1 and stick them in group 2.

Dan is in charge of this, right?

Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :

I have had trouble with my email. Did everyone receive my draft?

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

@Teraen: Must have missed that Osiris was bailing. Easiest setup is for you to just slide into that spot. So, revamp the groups one more time...

Group 1:
WriterDan
Anarresti
Utahute72
Dark Warrior
mbwood

Group 2:
LDWriter
Teraen
Owasm
Bent Tree
Brendan

Sorry I missed that. Formatting my dissertation for the umpteenth time has got me seeing everything cross-eyed.

@BentTree: I got your story.

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Ohhhhkay... Only thing is I already sent my story to everyone in group two. Should I stick with that, or send it to everyone in group one and have group 2 ignore mine?

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I have received two stories and hopefully mine will go out later tonight but then again I still need to run it through a spell checker once more and check for a couple of words I keep getting wrong.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I got yours Bent Tree. Also Teraen go ahead and send yours to me, I'm a little behind schedule as usual so it will be a bit before I get to it. Mine should be out at the end of the week.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

@Teraen: Just stick with it.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello,

My computer was down for a couple of days, and I may have lost incoming messages.

So far, I have received and sent a crit to Bent Tree. LDwriter2 sent an acknowledgement of receiving my submission.

Other than that... Nothing!

If you sent me a submission, please re-sent. Thanks!

mbwood

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I sent my story to Group One tonight.

But I have received only two as of yet.

[ November 11, 2011, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

I'll review anything I receive, My second round will go out next week.

Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :

Dan-

Yup, I thought you'd say that. For the receiving critiques, and the benefit of those who have me in their sights though - is group one supposed to send to me or group two?

Thanks.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

You're listed as being in Group 2. So, Group 1 will be sending to you.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

So far I remember seeing and critiquing stories from Bent Tree, LD Writer and OSWAM. I'm getting back into the swing of things after a hectic couple of weeks. So if anyone has sent me a story and I haven't sent you something back poke me.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Received my second crit but no more stories.

I think I had two so far which means three are AWOL so far.

No work on redoing my story yet though. I'll have that to do the first week of Dec.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Okay, I can start on the final revision of my story even though come to think of it I never received two stories to crit.

Got less than thirty days now to marathon the revision. [Smile]

Actually, it shouldn't take me that long. Maybe this weekend depending how much I help my wife decorate for Christmas, if I could take a decent picture of the lighted house I would put a couple on my blog.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

And I have revised my theory about what type of stories they like. While a lot on 26 or is it 27, have a certain type of MC, which type I have discussed on another thread or two, they can go for an old fashion type of MC also. I just read a story that seems very close to a lot of the older stories I've read. The type one or two people here said they didn't like. But that's oaky, It's not at all unusual for editors to buy stories different from their usual styles because they liked something in the story and/or writing.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

LD, care to put that in English for us mere mortals.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

I've noticed a pattern as well when I read the anthology, LD. It appears, all the winning entries were written better than the ones I turned in.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Is everyone in who is going to be in?
Only a few days left.

My goal is to read mine aloud tonight, fix w/e comes up, and mail by post tomorrow.

Axe

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Well, I changed my mind. I think they take a larger variety of Main Characters then they first seemed to want.

And snapper I don't have that view on everyone of my stories. Of course that might be one of my problems. [Smile]

And I hope to send off mine tomorrow.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I'm sure I'll be working on mine right up until closing time again. I'd like to get ahead of the power curve on one of these things just once.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Okay just submitted my story.

Thanks to Owasm, MBwood, and Jim. You all had some good points.

And that is the second group, thanks to all who critted it during the first round.
I took many of their suggestions and did a few changes on my own. Don't know if those are really better now or not, but I think they are.

Whatever happens it is a better story now.

One or two thought it didn't show anything new. That's probably true but after reading #27 that may not be that big a problem. Whatever the case as I said it is better now.

And I got the confirmation E-mail. But as I left the house with three snail mail stories, I thought I should have sent in the WotF story that way. not only are there less chance of something going wrong but I miss those bookmarks they send out with the rejections. I keep losing them after I use one. Must be still in the books, hiding somewhere.

[ December 28, 2011, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

I've been reworking mine based on the two rounds of reviews. Anticipate submitting Friday. Definitely it is a better story now thanks to the thoughtful reviewer comments.

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

In! My submission is in! What a struggle. To get this written and then for the time to finish. I actually had a few notable writing projects ahead of this.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Good, looks like we will have a good bunch. Maybe a winner or three. [Smile]

But we will have to wait a few days to see all who sent theirs in.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Been forgetting.

Got a second E-mail confirmation. I am definitely entered in Q1. And Joni gave a slight history lesson on why they start with the new year before Jan.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Well, I think I'm entered. I got an entered message from the site, but haven't seen an e-mail.

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

I'm in for 2012 Q1. It's a much improved story because of my wise readers but ... ugh. Glad that's done. Got an e-mail confirmation pretty quickly.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

I didn't do this group this time, but I sent something I had anyway. Submitted 7:30pm PST.

Luck to us all!

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Tomorrow we should make a list of all who is in Q1

And the second E-mail showed up a day or two after I sent the story. I received a very short confirmation a couple of seconds after I sent the story.

Happy New Year but that's on another thread. [Smile]

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I did finally get the "You're Entered" Quick e-mail.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

OK, I'll start it. If you're entered in Q1 add your name to the list.

Utahute72

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

OK, I'll start it. If you're entered in Q1 add your name to the list.

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm

Posted by anarresti (Member # 9614) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti
LDWriter2

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti
LDWriter2
Axeminister

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti
LDWriter2
Axeminister
genevive42

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti
LDWriter2
Axeminister
genevive42
mbwood

Posted by wirelesslibrarian (Member # 9513) on :

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti
LDWriter2
Axeminister
genevive42
mbwood
wirelesslibrarian

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Read the first report of a rejection email for this quarter. Everybody better find their kleenex - or their party hats [Razz]

Posted by OliverBuckram (Member # 9655) on :

snapper - over at the "Wotf Critique Group -- 2011 Q03" thread JenniferHicks has probably correctly identified this duotrope report as a false alarm.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Yeah, I don't know how a Q1 discussion ended up on the Q3 thread.

I do wish KDW would respond to Snapper's post on her message board and tell us what's going on with the quarter. (I guess she wasn't blown away by the generous offer of a signed anthology.)

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I thought that one rejection was kinda quick but sometimes it does seem to go faster than other quarters.

But now my stomach will be doing flops almost every time I check out the E-mail address I use for writing. .

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I may have missed something on another forum here but did anyone else get the E-mail talking to those who haven't sent in stories for a while?

Joni offered them help.

Since we are sending in stories we don't need help???

Of course they may not be sending in stories because they are discouraged so may need a little extra help along those lines.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Louis,

I believe Joni offered them encouragement, not help.
Although possibly technical help, like click here for our guidelines and click here on how to submit, but I don't think she meant help with a story. (If that's what you're asking.)

Axe

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

Hi, all! When should we expect results? In March, right?

Utahute72
Jennifer Hicks
Owasm
Anarresti
LDWriter2
Axeminister
genevive42
mbwood
wirelesslibrarian
aspirit

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

According to duotrope, rejections have started to trickle in.

Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LDWriter2:
I may have missed something on another forum here but did anyone else get the E-mail talking to those who haven't sent in stories for a while?

Joni offered them help.

Since we are sending in stories we don't need help???

Of course they may not be sending in stories because they are discouraged so may need a little extra help along those lines.

Louis, I got that email. It wasn't offering help exactly, just stuff like links to proper formatting, links to message boards, etc. It was to people who hadn't submitted in a couple quarters. It was mostly just encouragement.

Melanie

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Someone is sending rejections out. According to duotrope, a rejection for story sent in mid-october was reported today.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Finally responding.

Meadors I didn't really think she meant criting or some such but things like links to writing advice on the WotF site.

They could do that with little trouble.

and someone is sending out rejections, hmm? [Smile]

But is that only one so far?

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Nope, there are four others sent out a couple of days ago

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

So a whole five so far?

Of course by the time you respond it could a whole lot more. [Smile]

Unless that is in one minute. [Smile]

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Those are from writers who choose to participate in duotropes submission tracker. That is a percentage that is far lower than what a publication receives. On The Premises, as one example, accepted 8 times more submissions in their contest than what was reported on duotrope, and since WotF is a contest reserved for amateurs, I am betting the percentage is more of a 10% cross section to what they really receive.

Soooo, if 5 rejection have already been received, as many as 50 (by my math) have likely been sent to disappointed writers.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

The rejections are flying this morning. There's no question now that they are for real and not courtesy of confused entrants from other quarters.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Maybe no news is good news - for the moment.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I submitted by snail mail, so I'm expecting my not-good-news won't show up until much later. But I have my fingers crossed for all of you e-submitters.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

I can report that a rejection was received by a person that I know for this quarter. Talented writer.

So brace yourself everyone. Rejections are a trickling.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I'm sure the person is a talented writer but are you sure you know him as well as you think?

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Well, I'm not a friend but I have read enough of her work to attest to her skill.

She is the only one whom I can confirm as a rejection. If anyone knows of more....

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

There's one confirmed from over on the WotF forums as well.

Axe

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

So I'm working on a Chapter1 review for Meredith's writing challenge and up pops an email from WotF. I open it up thinking my time is up and I'd get a rejection for another quarter. I read... "Save the Date!"

I feel like I've dodged a bullet. A small caliber bullet, but a bullet nevertheless.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Got that one too.

But mine had that on the header so I knew what it was.

Too bad some of us couldn't go as a group.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I got the "save the date" e-mail, too. It's my third one. They really want me to go, and I wish I could.

Duotrope is showing another round of rejections just went out.

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

I haven't seen the Save the Date e-mail, but I've received two mailed invitations to this year's ceremony. The address was wrong on one of those invitations. Now I'm worried that WOTF doesn't have the right contact information for me.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Hmm, keep expecting that E-mail from Joni but still nothing.

That makes two I'm waiting for. There is a magazine that seems to be taking longer than usual for my stuff. Maybe two magazines come to think of it.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Well, I didn't participate in this group, but I did submit to this quarter, so I'll join in on the nail-biting, if you all don't mind. It's so much more fun when done in good company.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

I just got the call of my life! I was sitting at a table in a lonely roadside stop in Ontario, plotting against axeminister (favorite pastime) when my phone rang...

Oh wait, it's not april first yet. I'll get back to you.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Those double negatives aren't gonna fool us this year, Snapper. [Wink]

At least I can distract myself from waiting for Q1 results by panicking over my unfinished Q2 entry.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Man, I'm with you Jennifer. Nothing is falling into place this quarter. Hopefully something will click in the next two weeks.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Form reject.

A bit surprised, as I considered this submission to be far superior to the story I received an HM with. In any case, onward ho!

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Sorry to hear that Osiris.

I used to think I had a handle on what stories would do well... Nope.

Seems any story can get a form at any time. Nerve wracking!

Axe

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

No worries, Axe, but thank you for commiserating.

I'm a fan of Stephen Covey (7 Habits of Highly Effective People), and my favorite quote is "Begin with the end in mind." As long as you always keep that end goal in mind, rejections are little more than speed bumps.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Sorry Osiris. Just remember that sometimes it's not a matter of quality but of taste.

I think this is the third round of rejections. We have to getting close to the HMs.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Sorry to hear it Osiris. WotF can be so puzzling. Keep trying.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

You probably know this Osiris, but the quality of your writing is not in question, just how this story fits this market. And this is a very particular market.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Thanks all, love how supportive this group is. I definitely think you are spot on genevive, as much as I love my 'spec arabesque' setting that mixes mid-east culture with science fiction, I'm starting to suspect my stories with that subject matter are a hard sell for editors (though alpha/beta readers seem to love them). That won't stop me from writing them, though. [Smile]

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

quote:
That won't stop me from writing them, though.

Yes. This. Awesome!

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Well Genevive, if you ever figure out what they are really looking for let me know, would ya. Every time I think I have them figured out they throw me a curve ball.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

Oh, I don't really know what they're looking for. I know if aiming for this contest, big concept is good as is following the major writing 'rules'for plot and such. This is not a place for great experimentation. And I know I used the comments from my Semi-Finalist crit to shape my Finalist piece. However, most readers here preferred my Semi- over my Finalist, and I agree that it's a better story. But my Finalist followed the rules more carefully.

What's funny is now that I've made Finalist, I'm much less interested in winning. I know that sounds backward, but I feel like I've proven what I needed to prove. The story I have in this quarter is a crapshoot. There's no big concept, just a fun character story with a solid plot arc. Other than that, I'm putting my energy into my novel.

I will say that this crit group has been excellent (even though I didn't do it this time). Thank you to anyone here who has read and commented on my work. You rock!

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I would think that it would be tough to figure out what they want. I saw some characteristics in 27 that made me think they like certain types of stories--basically a bit dark with a MC who has had bad things happen to them in the past, but I haven't read enough of previous stories to see if that was just for 27. And it wasn't one hundred percent, just that most stories seemed to fit those two characteristics.

And Dean Wesley Smith has stated that as new writers we won't know why a story sells for the first few sold stories. He has his own experiences, has held lots of workshops over the years, and talked to quite a few other pros.

It's almost like luck that everything came together for that story or two-four stories. Of course we keep learning and eventually we know enough to have an idea why everything comes together for certain stories and not others.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

After reviewing the last four anthologies of WotF I can see one characteristic in their stories that make it stand out.

Struggle.

In every story I have read from them a struggle (in the loosest definition of the term) is central to the premise, and this isn't always the case in other publications that I have read. You might think that is important in every publication but that isn't necessary the case.

I recall reading something from KDW that the character must change (show growth) as if it became necessary that they learn something. I found that wasn't true at all (The House of Nameless came immediately to mind), but the struggle ingrained in every plot shinned bright.

So if your story lacks a meaningful struggle in it...best of luck to you.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Well Snapper that would make sense. The one HM story was based on struggle, the second one was more about discovery and got a flat rejection.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

quote:
I recall reading something from KDW that the character must change (show growth) as if it became necessary that they learn something. I found that wasn't true at all (The House of Nameless came immediately to mind), but the struggle ingrained in every plot shinned bright.

I was told be an assistant editor of Jim Baen's Universe - now Universe Annex- the same thing. That the readers expect it and feel cheated if it doesn't happen. How they know that about readers no one said. But this editor went on to say that the change could be on any level. In other words it could be something small.

I would say that if someone struggles they do change in some manner or another.

As usual this isn't one hundred percent though.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

So so far only one rejection? Sorry Osiris. You will do better.

Hmm, either the rest are in the last series of rejections, have gotten calls therefore can't say anything, have just decided not to admit it or they are late.

Seems early for phone calls so that one is probably off but maybe the judges took a couple of days of for St. Patrick's day.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

No HMs yet, which means it's way too early for calls. I'm guessing we'll see the first HMs go out sometime this week or next. The finalists probably won't hear that they're finalists until after the workshop.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Snapper, very astute.

I'm adding that notion to my deconstruction efforts. I've hammered all around the nail, you hit it on the head.

Axe

p.s. your plotting *against* me is really working in my favor, thanks!

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Rejections alert. Another round has just gone out (as being reported on duotrope and the WotF forum). It would be nice to hear about some HMs sprinkled in amid the doom and gloom.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Waiting…waiting…waiting…

This is a time when we should all be envying Osiris. She no longer needs to suffer with hands that have fallen asleep from sitting on them. I know many of you are likely flinching (like I am) when you hear the ping of a new email. Terror likely strikes you as well when you see the sender is from Writers of the Future, only to find out they want you to fill out a stupid survey or tell you to save the date for an event that is thousands of miles away. Funny how these type of emails flow in only when you’re waiting to hear about the story you were sure was going to win the gold award when you finished it (just like the last one you sent in that received a condescending you didn’t win, but keep trying! rejection). So what’s the best way to combat these trying times of anticipation? Write a new story? Yeah right, like any of us can concentrate in a time like this. The only way to handle these long waits is with a group therapy of wild speculation.

So, you’ve seen the reports of rejections coming in, but for some reason, not many of the reports are from writers you know. Now why isn’t there any Honorable mentions? What about the people who like to submit early so they’re entry will get read early? Shouldn’t those poor souls have heard from Joni by now? This is what I think is happening, based on the smallest, and flimsiest, of evidence (that we can all pass on as inside information to other forums).

If you obsess over duotropes recent responses like I do, you’ll notice that rejections are coming in from entries submitted in the same block of time. For example, on March 20th, the rejections were to entries sent in between the dates of Dec. 21st and Dec. 28th. On March 15th, the entries rejected were sent in the time frame of Dec. 10th to Dec. 21st. All of duotropes daily reports reflect a block of time. However, this runs contrary with Joni’s commitment that HM’s are sent out when she receives them. So what is going on?

This quarter is KDW’s busiest one. She has to prepare for the ceremony, have the anthology all edited, conduct a writer’s workshop (holding Nick’s hand must be a full time job in itself); a lot is on her plate but that monstrous pile of entries just doesn’t go away on it’s own. I think we are witnessing a quick whittling of the pile.

Since the majority of the submissions are electronic now, Joni must have a system to send entries to KDW. Sending them one email at a time won’t do (a few would likely get lost in cyberspace), but sending 900 submissions in one fell swoop has to be out of the question (think of the likelihood of a file corruption). I think she sends in blocks of them in zip files. Every couple of days she stacks a bunch in a set (lets go with 30 a zip file). Under this system, KDW would have a large bunch of zip files staring her in the face every time she turns on her computer - 30 stories in a file divided by 900 stories = 30 zip files. Yikes!

By KDW’s own accounts on how she tackles the first round, she reads the first few hundred words then (with the help of a program) reads the last couple of paragraphs. She is…

1) Making sure the quality of the writing stands up to what the judges expect
2) Making sure there is a speculative element present in the opening
3) Checking to see if the content fits WotF’s standards
4) Making certain that the ending is consistent with the opening (probably the biggest reason why multiple POV’s rarely make it into the anthologies)

This would help her to get the pile down to something more manageable. The ones that are left likely get set into another pile. Even if your entry made it this far, you still may not get an HM for your efforts – although your chances have gone way up. I am guessing KDW is still working through the whittling process. Probably 30 to 50% done with this earliest of stages. If she is reading them a zip file at a time, it might mean that she isn’t reading them as Joni received them, so an early Oct. submission may still be in an untouched zip file.

So what do you think? Plausible? Or is this just all a babbling of a writer who just wasted valuable writing time? Likely the later but I as posted earlier in this thread, one of my favorite pastimes is plotting against Axeminister, and since I know how much he over-analysis’s everything, this post is probably driving him batty.

[ March 22, 2012, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: snapper ]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Sounds good to me snapper but procrastination is not wasted writing time. [Smile]

If we make it to the second read does that put us in an upper percentage? The first time I got anything besides a normal rejection was one that said I made it to the upper twenty to fifteen percent.

But there seems to be a conflict of how far they along they are. Of course both people are guessing so we will just have to see who is closest at the end. [Smile]

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Snapps,
Your post didn't drive me batty the first six times I read it.

But that seventh time...

Grrr.

Axe

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Osiris:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by snapper:
[qb] Waiting…waiting…waiting…

This is a time when we should all be envying Osiris. She no longer needs to suffer with hands that have fallen asleep from sitting on them.

I'm a dude, dude. [Smile]

The interesting thing is they almost try to slip in the rejection note in the body of this large e-mail. Its like 'yadayadayada,' then 'even though your story didn't place, you should keep trying' and then more 'yadayadayada'. I appreciate they are trying to be sensitive to writers, but I don't need the coddling, to be honest. I'm seasoned enough to not get too bent out of shape about rejection.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

quote:
I'm a dude, dude.

By golly you're right. I always thought Osiris was the goddess of the dead. I really need to brush up on my Egyptian mythology.

Thanks for straighten me out.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

quote:
The interesting thing is they almost try to slip in the rejection note in the body of this large e-mail. Its like 'yadayadayada,' then 'even though your story didn't place, you should keep trying' and then more 'yadayadayada'. I appreciate they are trying to be sensitive to writers, but I don't need the coddling, to be honest. I'm seasoned enough to not get too bent out of shape about rejection.

The straight-reject form from WotF makes me grind my teeth. Other markets are straight forward with some variation on: "Thank you for your submission but we don't want it." And that's OK. The coddling tone of the WotF rejection drives me up a wall. I don't need or want to be reassured like my 7-year-old's soccer team after a loss. We're all adults here.

Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :

Snapper

quote:
(holding Nick’s hand must be a full time job in itself)

I resent the implication that Joni must “hold my hand”. I’m far too important to only have one person doing it; I have a full-time entourage to take care of my needs. By the way, Axeminister has completely reneged on his promise to scatter rose petals before me wherever I go while I’m in LA. A position is open for you. I can’t promise pay, food, thanks or even eye contact (I only look at important people), but you’ll get the satisfaction of knowing that I’ll walk near you.

In terms of the slush reading process and when responses go out, I’ll ask while I’m in LA, but my gut feel is that it probably varies every time it’s done, depending on what’s happening in the “real life” of both Joni and KDW. Quarter 1 of each year is probably the most haphazard, because there's so much that goes into organizing the workshop and ceremony.

Nick

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Nick,

Had I come in 3rd place instead of 4th, I totally would have scattered rose petals at your feet.

Well, if there were any left over after scattering them at MY OWN feet...

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I'd volunteer for you both except that I would have red, watery eyes and be sneezing up a storm while scattering the petals, which would ruin the effect.

Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :

Jennifer,

There is a position open for whispering "Remember you are but a man" into my ear as I walk down the red carpet.

Nick

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Can I have the whispering in your ear position? I have this megaphone that is gathering dust in my closest...

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Speaking about coddling we mentioned that new rejection last time. I don't any of us likes it or are encouraged by it.

But changing the subject slightly I noticed that Asimov's has a new, nicer rejection. I don't recall it from the time before but that was a few months ago. Can't recall the exact words but they really, really appreciated me sending the story.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Oh yes, I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet. Usually someone mentions by now that we need to concentrate on writing not waiting. [Smile]

but just so no one will get the wrong idea.

I am working on writing while waiting even though my heart is in my throat when I check that E-mail address.

I am revising two stories, actually just finished one, and writing what might be Q3's offering but it needs some struggle, I may go with that fantasy I referenced. Plus some work on a novel or two.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Oh, I've been doing more than refreshing the duotrope feed. I've finished the redraft of my Q2 story and I'm going back over it one last time before sending it to my readers. One week from tomorrow is the deadline. I usually don't cut it this close.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Slacker...

Oh wait, I'm in the same situation.

Make sure I'm one of those readers. [Smile]

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Of course you are, Axe. [Smile]

I wrote the whole story, decided it wasn't good enough and started over almost from scratch three weeks ago. If it sucks now, there's no time to do anything about it.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I was going to say Oops, Jennifer reminded me I need to finish my final revision. I have only gone over one of the four or five crits I received but when I went back to work on it I found the opposite. There's only one crit left to go over.

I can do that tonight. That would still leave me with the need to go over to find nitpicks especially with the new stuff I referenced in an earlier post.

Louis

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

It's Wednesday, which means it's (possibly) time to start biting nails. Previous rounds of responses have hit e-mail boxes on Wednesdays or Thursdays.

And now, back to my Q2 revisions ...

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I didn't think it would be quite that soon. Here come the rejections on Duotrope.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hi, Jennifer;

can you provide the link to that part of Duotrope that lists the rejections (of WotF entrants)?

Thanks!
mbwood

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

From the Duotrope main page, search for Writers of the Future Contest. From the WotF page, scroll down to where it says [View report of recent responses from this market]. It's under the "Other information" header. Click on it.

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

^ You have to be logged into Duotrope to see the response information instead of the "More Information is Available to Registered Users" header.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Quite right. Thanks, aspirit.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Oops, looks like I got the wrong WotF thread last time. Too much of a hurry.

But looks I-- that is we-- have one more day to check this week. Or does it just start on Wednesday or Thursdays?

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

We might be done with responses for this week, but who knows? It was a small group who heard this afternoon, if Duotrope is any indication. And still no HMs.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

%&€$#@ Writers of the Future and their junk emails. Gives me a heart attack every time I see their name as the sender. Don't they know I'm awaiting more important news?
Like I care whose going to be at the ceremony. So what if the next big thing "Nick Tchan" is going to grace the place with his presence. Whoopee. Like he would even look my way anyway if I was there.

Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :

Snapper,

Of course I wouldn't look your way if you were there. You and Axeminister would be expected to carry me on a palanquin while Jennifer scattered rose petals (and sneezed). It's very hard to look down from such a lofty position.

Nick

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Achoo!

Snapper, I'm with you on the invitations. I've received four or five now. I had a mini-heart attack this afternoon when the latest one showed up.

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Maybe the number of invitations you recieve is an indicator of your standing in Q2. I got one today, as well. Does that mean a minimum of an HM????

Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :

quote:
Maybe the number of invitations you recieve is an indicator of your standing in Q2. I got one today, as well. Does that mean a minimum of an HM????

I keep receiving invites and it's not like they really need to persuade me to attend (though it is tempting to send a stand-in a la Brando).

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I've been getting them too. The latest was bragging about who was going to be there... singing and/or dancing?

They don't shock me for two reasons. Usually the headers is different and I get those on another E-mail address.

But today I was hit by one from Joni. I went online and there was a note from Joni...Oh no there's the rejection looks like not even a HM so I peeked.
.....

All it said was something about entering.

I had just sent my Q2 story before signing on.

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

The invites seem unrelated to our contest entries. Joni has two e-mails for me: one I use for submissions and one for Galaxy Press surveys. It's only my secondary e-mail address, not the one for the contest, that has been receiving invites.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by aspirit:
The invites seem unrelated to our contest entries. Joni has two e-mails for me: one I use for submissions and one for Galaxy Press surveys. It's only my secondary e-mail address, not the one for the contest, that has been receiving invites.

I submitted my first story to WoTF via a personal e-mail address. Then I created an 'author' email address, and have submitted with that one since. I get all e-mails except submission results to both e-mail addresses.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Seems like I used to get the invites to both addresses but lately they have been just going to the non writing address. That goes for the polls they take for the covers.

Last time I would have had to go to their Facebook page to vote.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Speaking of invites now I'm getting repeats from Joann Hill.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

We're back around to that time of the week in which rejections bomb the e-mail boxes of unsuspecting entrants, but we might see a break now until after the workshop and gala. What do you think?

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

If I recall correctly and I may not since my memory isn't what it used to be-- actually it never was what it used to be-- it wasn't 'till the week of the event when the started to skip weeks- then it was at least two weeks... I think.

Also it seems like Joni or someone may have put a warning-disclamer on their blog or newsgroup. I recall someone saying something about them taking a break from the rejections anyway.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

On another forum, someone posted an e-mail from Joni that said more responses will go out tonight. Be checking your e-mail.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

That was anticlimactic. Duotrope reports two rejections received this evening. And the wait goes on ...

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Did everyone survive the killing blow of another rejection Wednesday? I did but the stroke of a WotF junk email almost did me in. I think Joni is messing with me. Good one Joni. Good one.

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Missed me!

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

Missed me, too.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Me too.

But if I recall correctly again, last year they sent me a rejection right after the ceremony thing. So we may be skipping this next week, if it goes as usual.-- which means we will get a bunch the next week.

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

The following email from Writers of the Future caused rise in hearbeat for a second until the title was seen:

The Writer Winners Have Arrived In Hollywood!

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Me too. But I thought hey wait a minute how could the winners be there so soon. [Smile]

A second later I realized which winners it meant.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Okay, now that the big hoop-la is over (Congrats to Nick T Chan), it's time for everyone to brace themselves for the opening of the floodgates. Grab onto to something if you don't want to be swept downstream with despair on the River of Rejection. Choose something solid. I am holding onto to my dignity. Oh wait. WotF shattered that long ago. Ah! Here we are! Got a grip on a misguided belief in my own talent. It even has hand holds for me to grip onto.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

quote:
I am holding onto to my dignity. Oh wait. WotF shattered that long ago.

Hatrack did that???

I would have sworn it was a certain someone...

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

On top of today's bad news, more rejections are going out. I figured we wouldn't see anymore responses until next week, considering.

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

LD, I think he meant that the contest shattered his dignity.

I received my results today. Rejection.

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

Wow. Jennifer, I didn't see your post immediately.

http://www.sfsite.com/news/2012/04/19/obituary-k-d-wentworth/

This must be the news you're talking about. I could accept a rejection after a brief moment of self-pity, but this...isn't as easy.

Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :

I saw the news after I got my rejection this morning. I don't know much about KDW except what we were all trying to learn to appeal to her tastes. It's always sad when we lose someone in the community.

By the way, I wasn't surprised by the rejection. It wasn't a very WotF story.

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

I'll commiserate. I wasn't surprised. My story also had a number of strikes against it for WOTF, though I don't consider it a bad tale. Still...a form rejection is still disappointing.

Paradoxically, I believe my writing is improving yet I've gone from personal rejections (during my first year return to writing) to form rejections. Not very encouraging.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

What a shock about the WofF KDW. I wonder if the new first reader will shake up what gets passed and what gets rejected.

No rejection for me... yet.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by aspirit:
Wow. Jennifer, I didn't see your post immediately.

http://www.sfsite.com/news/2012/04/19/obituary-k-d-wentworth/

This must be the news you're talking about. I could accept a rejection after a brief moment of self-pity, but this...isn't as easy.

What a shock of bad news. [Frown]

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Sorry that so many received rejections today. If Duotrope and the various forums are any guide, it seems today was the biggest flood of rejections for Q1 so far. I haven't heard anything yet. Who else is still standing?

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

I haven't heard anything yet.

mbwood

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I wonder if it was sudden or if she was absent from the conference over the weekend. I'm impressed she was as active as she was up to the end.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

KDW usually teaches the workshop but did not do so this year. She also hadn't posted anything to her WotF-related message board since January, which is an unusually long silence. Based on those two bits of information, I am speculating that she had been in decline for a while.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

So I would assume that means she didn't read the stories this year. Which means someone else has already taken over.

No rejection yet but it sounds like it they might be sending them out for a while not just two days.

[ April 19, 2012, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Did she sign the Q4 HMs?
I think she did critique the semis, but they were slow in returning.

My guess is someone took over from the first story of Q1 so he/she could sign the next wave of HM's, and have autonomy over the finalists, etc.
But what do I know.

Axe

Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :

Yes, her signature is on my Q4 HM.

Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :

The WOTF website tribute says KDW was reading contest stories up until she went into the hospital a few days ago.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Grayson Morris:
The WOTF website tribute says KDW was reading contest stories up until she went into the hospital a few days ago.

That is truly impressive. I figured that some other judge must have been quietly doing the reading for her. I wonder who will finish the quarter and take over for KDW on a permanent basis.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

quote:
That is truly impressive.

Agreed.
Sounds like this caught them by surprise. [Frown]

I'm sure she had some finalist possibles, and lots of HM's separated.

Now someone else has to come in and divide them all up. (i.e. re-read them.)

Gonna be a while for this Q, but we have 4 chances a year, so it'll balance out in the end.

Still, that's awesome she was still doing what she loved. (Going by her "I have the best job in the world." snippet in a past antho.)

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

If someone else now needs to come in and repeat much of the work KDW had already done (rereading to decide placement), this might turn into the longest wait for results in recent years. Which means there's only one thing to do: Go finish writing my Q3 story.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

We might all end up with three in the que, Jennifer.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I'm not sure about that axe and Jennifer. Unless she had a bunch ahead of course. But if she had the HMs and finalists all picked out, they could use that and just decide on the semis and winners. If she only had half picked out they might need to reread them all. Or just the ones she didn't read.

She must have been in the hospital before the ceremony thing so that last week and any they sent now could have been done already or the new person was at it already.

In either case it seems like they should be sending something out soon. Especially if they will be a significant delay.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Had another thought today.

They might take a day or three off for mourning and turmoil if her death was as sudden as it seemed. But didn't someone say they had sent out some rejections around Wednesday?

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Are you ready for another wave of rejections? Do you have a hold of your metaphorical anchor? History, Genevive, and aspirit didn't follow my advice, will you make that same mistake? I'm still holding tight to my Misguided Belief in my Own Talent. You might want to find something solid to grasp onto as well.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I will cling to my stubborn determination and hope to God that Joni waits until tomorrow. I've had as much bad news as I can handle for one day.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Hey JH. That Stubborn Determination of yours looks pretty solid. Wouldn't be surprised if we're the only two not to be swept downstream.

Sorry to hear about the bad news. Hopefully it isn't anything worse than an (unrelated to WotF) rejection.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

My Stubborn Determination did not give me the strength to paddle ashore to Boot Camp, but I have faith it will protect me from being swept downstream by WotF.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

So they are sending rejections out again for sure?

JH I think you are using the SD for something else. Sounds like it to keep trying even as you try to paddle ashore.

But Your story probably has one of the better chances of those of us who remain.

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

An HM for me.

At least it's not a rejection. The story did have a unique voice, but not, I suspect, a unique enough plot.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

They must be on the HM round because I was just notified I got an HM also. It was interesting in the message, Joni indicated that KDW had selected the HMs for the first quarter, so that answers at least one question we had.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

I got my HM as well, and received the note that Ms Wentworth did indeed selected for the honor, which brings me to this...

I had higher hopes for my story, so considering KD's untimely passing, I will likely send it again.

Now that a new cordinating judge will soon be selected, any story that i sent in that I still believe in now has a second life for the contest.

Honorable Mention...it appears my Misguided Belief in my Own Talent was just a floatation device.

[ April 26, 2012, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: snapper ]

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I was thinking the same thing Snapper, that given there will be a new reviewer I might look at resending a story or two, maybe after a few tweaks, to see if I can get a better result with a different reader.

I don't know if that sounds a little self-serving or not, but it was a thought.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Congrats to the HMs!

I'm still waiting with my Stubborn Determination, but I submitted by snail mail. It's possible I'll be getting my response the same way.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Snapps,
For what it's worth, I'd be happy to look at the story for you. Maybe offer one or two pieces of advice? Never know.

Unless you intend to send as is.
Let me know by e-mail.

And yes, grats to the HM folks!

I submitted by paper on the last day, so there's a possibility mine hasn't even been read yet. Which bums me out because that means Kathy won't have read it. I suspect I'll never know the answer to that question, so I'll go with her having read it. (But if I get a rejection, I'm totally blaming the new guy/gal.) =)

Axe

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

I'm also wondering if there aren't boxes of paper submissions sitting in Oklahoma that now need to be shipped to wherever.

The paper folks could be in for a long wait.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Someone on the WotF forum said KDW had judged some of the paper subs, but not all. So someone else will be finishing them.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Did anyone else get an e-mail from Joni this afternoon (4/26, 5:04 p.m. EST), which ended up with the following line:

"Your story was placed in the hold category while K.D. was reading the hard copy submissions. You will be notified in the next month where you stand."

Does anyone have a clear idea what this implies?

mbwood

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I received a familiar E-mail from Joni among other things after mentioning That K.D. died she said
"She judged your story and gave you this honor of Honorable Mention. "

Wow, not as good as a finalist but still can't help but feel honored.

I believe I will keep the E-mail.

Oh and I must say that I really was surprised that story made it that far and that my next story is better--better writing but we shall see about the story.
Which reminds me I need to revise it.

And I doubt I will send in this story again even with more crits, as I said I really was surprised it made it this far but two things. One: I would like another crit or two before I send it elsewhere. Two: I will be resending one or two others. Like my first HM and possibly the one I got a while back.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mbwood:
Did anyone else get an e-mail from Joni this afternoon (4/26, 5:04 p.m. EST), which ended up with the following line:

"Your story was placed in the hold category while K.D. was reading the hard copy submissions. You will be notified in the next month where you stand."

Does anyone have a clear idea what this implies?

If you're in the "hold" category, your story was likely deemed a candidate for finalist or semifinalist. So ... congrats! I hope you get The Call.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Jennifer;

Thank you for the interpretation and divining of the message. However, please, hold the 'congrats,' for the e-mail could have another, less positive interpretation.

However, I hope and pray you're right - thanks!

mbwood

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

No, I think Jennifer is correct. I have no idea what is going to happen but I'm pretty sure your story will at least get a 2nd reading. You think you can impress two separate readers, MB?

Good luck...

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Agreed with da Snapps.
Kathy said she'd pull possible finalists all quarter. At the end, she'd review and break down the 8 - the 10 - and the SHM.

The new person has to finish the paper subs and add his/her own to the pile KD already put aside.

From there, the new guy/gal has to do the 8 - 10 split.

If you're being held, you're extremely likely to be in the 8 - 10 - SHM category. The only reason I can think of you would get bumped down to regular HM is that there were too many in this hold pile to begin with.

Speculating: perhaps KD had a pile of 30 - 40. We don't know her whittling down process. However, I tend to believe she was conservative with the pulls during the month.

I believe the finalists are still 2-3 weeks away from hearing. I say this from no factual basis. Just a gut feeling.

Axe

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Well, Mb, I understand why you are down-playing the information, but congratulations anyway because I would take it as indication that your placement is higher than any of us who received an HM note.

However, I am also assuming that my HM was placed higher than Snapper's. I have no basis in fact for this assumption, but it does make me feel better.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

I think you are correct Ute because I am sure there is a conspiracy afoot. I understand there is a Australian/Utah connection that has been keeping me off the stage of success. It has something to do with failed bribery attempts and assault and battery charges with bicycle pedals and red carpets.

The Honorable Mention was to throw me off their trail, but I'm onto their game. They don't know that I know that they know that I know what is going on. Yep, I know the truth. Good thing I quit taking those pills or I would have never figured it out.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Snap, Axe & Ute and Jennifer;

I dunno whether I can impress one or even two readers. Y'see, I can't figure out what KDW & the judges wanted. Yeah, I've been writing for a long time (even got paid for it), but this contest is a different breed of cat - a very special breed. Do I have the chops for it? I dunno.

I've finished nine novels and have one up on Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, but that isn't proof of writing capability (endurance or persistence, maybe). Oh, yes, I did get an HM on my first entry... Must've been a fluke.

I figure you guys have been around this WotF contest longer than me and know more about reading its tea leaves too. I haven't got a clue.

So, I've got fingers crossed & prayers said. I really hope that you're right.

Anyway, thank you for all your kind words.
mbwood

p.s. No one said they got a similar e-mail. C'mon, surely someone else got an e-mail from Joni.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Well, their interpretation sounds better than mine.

I thought it meant that she didn't finish with the readings so someone was going to have to take over. But if KDW placed it in the hold category than it at least has a chance of going beyond HM.

Sounds like we didn't get your E-mail. But is there anyone else left who hasn't heard?

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

MB,
I know of several others who've gotten that e-mail. Izanobu, who stops by periodically, has one.

Nerve wracking, ain't it? [Smile]

LD,
Anyone who submitted by paper in the last days of the quarter haven't heard. According to Joni, Kathy was tackling the paper subs just before she went into the hospital.

So there's a full spectrum of placements yet to come.

Axe

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Congrats to all who've received HM's or are still waiting.

Snapper, I'm not sure what you mean by: "History, Genevive, and aspirit didn't follow my advice, will you make that same mistake?"

I don't think my story was terrible. I think it would survive your heat vision, adamantine claws, and venomous breath (I'll send it along with a few virtual Tic-Tacs, if you wish). I prefer to believe (possibly in my happy self-delusuion) that it was simply--yet, again--not the type of story that WOTF is looking for.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Sorry Doc. Some jokes work. I was referring to grabbing a hold of your rock solid metaphorical solid ground.

Jennifer Hicks has (Stubborn Determination), while I believe Axeminster has decided to stake his claim on his Over Confidence (or was that Fleeting Confidence, Axe? So hard for me to tell the difference).

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

I'm not over confident, I'm just a loud mouth braggart who hasn't done a thing.

But pit me against an army of the dead and I'll show you a trick or two.

Axe

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

snapper, I'll admit I wasn't holding to much. All I had was bit of Delusional Optimism that three uses of profanity and an overly fast plot would somehow not bring my story a rejection. Alas.

Congratulations to Owasm, Utahute72, and snapper for your HMs! Also, congrats to those who've been put in the second-read pile. I expect another Hatracker to win Q1, so make good.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

I realized I haven't congratulated snapper, Owasm, Utahute72.

Not as good as a win but you all did something right.

You probably know all this but I got a little carried away:
mb, as fas as I know No One can read the Tea leaves at any market that has an editor. Sometimes we can theorize what a certain editor or group wants. snapper and a couple of others...me included...have tried to use mind power to get the right answer. But my first HM-even though far from my first entry- must have been a fluke too for I didn't know enough to even guess what they wanted back then.

Theories can blow up in out faces though. The best story we can do following one might not even get a second glance much less read. But a story that is totally backwards according to the theories gets snatched up faster then you can say "You're not suppose to buy that one".

BTW, I hope they are right too. [Smile]

We need a win and so do you.

Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :

Grats on the HMs, everyone! I got a reject this quarter, which wasn't surprising. I sent an older story that hadn't yet been to WOTF since I was busy with a novel.

I have higher hopes the next few quarters though with a completely new batch of stories ready to go. We'll see if I can get higher than a SHM now. And I sure hope that if I'm lucky enough to win, I get to see some of you there, too. [Smile]

Tom

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

It would be neat to see others there.

I think there has only been one from here there at a time be super neat to have three to five of us there at one night.

And if we could get a couple of hat rackers in the audience We could have a mini-hatrack convention after or before the ceremony or some such.

Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :

LD, I missed you. Congrats on your HM!

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Congrats to the HM winners!

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Thank you all. It's been a while.

I think that a new reader gives us opportunities to re-submit stories that we believed in, but were previously rejected. I'm doing it for the third quarter. We'll see how it goes.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

LD I'm beginning to realize that once you get a story polished you need to send it through the gamut of submissions because there are so many different readers out there.

As you become more experienced with each publication you will find it easier to recognize what they are looking for, witness Brad Torgeson. He's now selling regularly to a variety of markets as he understands better what they are looking for.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Got a note saying that the HM certificates are about to go out even though one space won't be signed.

Utahute72 just read your post I say yeah, but I've noticed that at the same time it helps to have a couple of sells in your credits.

And WotF is a top credit.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

*sigh* I just want to know whether someone read my story. Reject, HM, whatever. At this point, any response is good.

Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JenniferHicks:
*sigh* I just want to know whether someone read my story. Reject, HM, whatever. At this point, any response is good.

That you haven't heard is a good sign at least. [Smile]

I'm rooting for you Jennifer!

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Thanks, Tom. [Smile]

But as far as I've heard, no one who submitted by paper has received a response of any kind. Dustin and Crystal are in the same situation that I am, and a few more people on the WotF forum. It's not that our stories are being held for finalist consideration but that they quite possibly haven't been judged yet. Which means the silence means exactly ... nothing.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Save a tree. Save your sanity. Submit electronically!

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Yup. Paper.

I could be all excited because I haven't heard, and still be due a rejection slip in the mail.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by snapper:
Save a tree. Save your sanity. Submit electronically!

Last time I submitted electronically to WotF, I got a straight rejection in 41 days. Rejections don't usually faze me, but this one absolutely killed me -- not just the rejection itself (because I thought it was a darn good story) but also because it happened so fast. It took a month for me to start enjoying writing again. In Q1, I decided to do paper sub so I wouldn't be rejected in the first batch again. Now I've been waiting 145 days. I should be more careful what I wish for.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

'Lo, Jennifer;

I had a similar experience last time - submitted early (electronically), rejected early. And I thought it was a bang-up space opera story in which I had a lot of effort. Whadyano!

Q1 - again submitted early (again electronically) - nothing, nada, not a blink. Yeah, I know some have said being on hold is a good thing, but the waiting, and waiting... not knowing... yech! And Axe could be right.

Yes, KDW's passing is a sad event. I guess we should suck it up, bear with it and not complain, right?

mbwood

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Another Thursday comes and goes and ... still waiting. I queried Joni a few days ago to ask whether my story had been received because I never even got confirmation that I was entered. She sent back a generic "we'll have results soon" response. She also said 99% of rejections had been sent out and to "hang in there."

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hi, Jennifer;

generic responses seems to be the order of the day. I received this yesterday...

"Dear Writers of the Future Contestant,

Just a quick note to let you know that if you have not entered the contest recently, we encourage entering as often as you possibly can. I know life does get in the way sometimes, but we are still here and are still encouraging you to write. If you have entered since last year, this does not apply to you. If you have not, we are still here.

Looking forward to your next submission!

Best,

Joni Labaqui
Contest Director"

Hmm, maybe entries have dropped off? What d'you think?

mbwood

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Obviously not Jennifer but I have received E-mails like that before.

I too wonder if submissions have dropped off when I get them. But at the same time it is said they have a record number of entries. (Shoulder shrug)

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I didn't get one of those e-mails this time. I doubt it's a drop in submissions. It might be routine to send them out once in awhile to encourage writers to continue entering.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Well, Jennifer, another week, another Thursday and... nothing!

I wonder why it is taking so long. Could it be due to the award ceremonies in addition to the unfortunate passing of KDW?

In my case (since I submitted early), it is almost six months. With a little more than a month until the next submission deadline, that will mean the judges will soon be sitting on three sets of entries. Wow - holy backlog!

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Mbwood, you beat me to it this week. Nothing on my end, either. I am now one day away from my longest WotF wait ever in 14 quarters of entering. The last time I waited this long, I got a straight rejection on the same day the finalists were announced. Here's hoping for better this time.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Someone on the WotF forum said that he/she (don't know which by the handle) has talked with David Wolverton, who confirmed he will be the new coordinating judge and that there will be an official announcement next week. Maybe after that, they'll get with announcing the rest of the Q1 results. The thread is here.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Well, Jennifer, is the clock ticking down to next Thursday...? Is Thursday the 'day' when winners are announced?

Only thirty-three days to the Q3 deadline. Is this delay typical?

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

You can understand if they get two quarters behind. Losing KD Wentworth is a big blow to their judging.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Jennifer, tomorrow is Thursday. Is it the 'day?' Stay tuned for another nail-biter!

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

We can hope so. But if not, keep hammering away at Q3 or Q4 or whatever Q you're now working on. The results will come ... eventually.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Oh, dear, Jennifer, another Thursday has come and gone, and no news... Whatever is happening now? Will we ever know?

Yes, I'm working on Q3 & Q4, but what about the results of Q1? Yes, another Thursday... Oh, me! Oh, my!

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I think Dustin and Crystal are also still waiting, so that makes four of us. Anyone else? It doesn't help that someone reported a 66-day rejection to Duotrope this afternoon. Was the person confused or messing with our minds? Hmm.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JenniferHicks:
It doesn't help that someone reported a 66-day rejection to Duotrope this afternoon. Was the person confused or messing with our minds? Hmm.

Could be they received the rejection a while ago and are just reporting it now.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

If I remember right they indicated that KDW hadn't gotten to reading the snail mail submissions when she passed, so it's conceivable that some of those rejections could be coming out now.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hey, Jennifer, I just received this e-mail from Joni Labaqui:

"This is a note to let you know that your story has indeed been entered in the 2nd quarter of the 2012 Writers of the Future contest. Yes, we start a bit early around here, only because way back in 1984 when this contest started the very first quarter was in October. So we just rolled from there and here we are now into the 29th year!

I'll start sending out results starting and we'll have winners in June."

Does this mean we should hear something soon?

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Ditto. And this is for the second quarter.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Yeah, I got that e-mail this morning and had a small freak-out because I figured it had to be a Q1 straight rejection. At this point, I can almost see some of us receiving a response on Q2 before Q1.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I've lost track of what quarter we are even in.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Some of us are in one quarter, some in two quarters and a few in three quarters--depending if they have sent in the next story yet.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Well, Jennifer, another Thursday...

Is this THE day?

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Please, please, please ...

170 days and counting.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

I echo your sentiments. Since I entered early, I don't know the number of day, but it's a lot. I've got my fingers crossed.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Well, Jennifer, another Thursday. Did you hear anything?

I didn't and I've just uncrossed my fingers...

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

The day isn't over, but no. Nothing. At this point, I kind of hope the wait goes through the weekend so I can enter my Q3 story and have three stories to WotF at the same time.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hello, Jennifer, I didn't get anything today, either. I just sent in my Q3 story, and I'm already finishing up my planned Q4 piece.

This waiting is kind of nerve-wracking. Yes, I want to win, I want validation for the time and effort spent becoming a writer. I'm sure you feel the same.

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

So Mb, do you even remember what story you sent in for Quarter one. Joni asked for the name of mine and I honestly couldn't remember which one it was.

Second question, has anyone received their HM certificates for Quarter one. There was a flurry of e-mails about them a month or so ago and then nothing.

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Not mb but I had problems remembering my story's title also but I don't recall Joni asking for the title, but maybe she did since I looked for it.

But she did say the HMs were going out soon. But nothing yet and I think it's a bit beyond soon. Even though that is subjective.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Having a Duotrope account is wonderful for remembering those sorts of pesky things like titles and submission dates ...

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hey, Utahute, for some strange reason I do remember the title of my Q1 entry (and my entries rest for this year - including Q4, which isn't due yet). However, I only have a vague idea as to the date of their entry.
I'm only hoping Joni will call and ask me for the name of my Q1 entry... How about you, Jennifer?

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

Just wait until you get to be my age mb. It is so refreshing meeting new people each day.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Lemmesee, Utah, you're thirty-nine and holding (anything you can get your hands on) right? Right in my age bracket.

Golly-gee, I'm hoping and praying I get the call...

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

WotF has finally put out the press release announcing Dave Wolverton as the new coordinating judge. They also released this one about "off world" being the top theme among recent entries. I hope these are signals that we're about to get the final responses for the quarter.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Am I giving anything away by saying my Q1 is totally

not

off-world?

[Frown]

Q2, however, is. Yay!

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

That's a good thing that your Q1 story isn't part of the crowd, Dustin. Maybe by next quarter, the trend will be something else, like cybernetic puppies or space pirates. I have written no stories at all that take place in beyond known space, so I'm good.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Cybernetic space puppy pirate cyborgs of DOOM!

Q4, here I come.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

There are reports on the WotF forum of some Q1 responses going out today. Nothing on Duotrope yet.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hi, Jennifer, I haven't heard or received anything - have you? What kind of Q1 responses on the WotF forum (I don't know anything about that forum)? Are they rejections or notifications?

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Honorable mentions are being sent to folks in the "hold" pile. Three that I've heard of second-hand. Nothing for the paper subs so far.

Posted by Strycher (Member # 9821) on :

Yeah, it's getting kind of intense with all the hearsay over on the Q1 thread. With no responses in the actual report thread, I'm curious if we have some pranksters, or if forum folk are just fairing better than others. [Wink]

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

So far no News for you all.

Even I hope it doesn't hurt anyone feelings that I got my HM certificate today. As I looked at the title of my story I thought there could be as many as three or four people who would be surprised to see it on the HM certificate.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I'm glad the certificates are going out. Shiny!

Again, I'm passing on information from the WotF forum, this time from someone who talked with David Wolverton at a workshop. He didn't get to reading the entries left after KDW's death until this past week. He had planned to finish Q1 by yesterday.

The good news is that those of us still waiting should hear very soon. The bad news is we've all been obsessively looking for responses for weeks for no reason. Grr.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Oh, Jennifer, I do have a reason to obsess over the long-overdue response - I want to hear the good news, yes, I pine for it... I'm sure you understand.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

David Farland (aka Wolverton) announced on his facebook page that he has finished judging all the Q1 entries.

Posted by Strycher (Member # 9821) on :

Possible news circulating around the interwebs: Brinks Chaos Theory

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Yup, all 8 finalists have been called and reached. (not me)

Now we wait to see where the rest of us fall.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by axeminister:
Yup, all 8 finalists have been called and reached. (not me)

Now we wait to see where the rest of us fall.

Axe

I hope we fall somewhere soon. Today would be good. Six months is long enough to wait.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

In a side note, I notice that mbwood has suddenly gone silent. Hmm ...

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hi, Jennifer;

I haven't heard a thing. My silence is due to the distraction of yard cleanup and other home owner duties. I have my fingers crossed and offering silent prayers at regular intervals.
I'm puzzled as to where Axe got his info on the finalists... And, whether it is true. If so, I shall contemplate a suitable end...
mbwood

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Joni told people they don't have to keep quiet this quarter, so the announcements are appearing on blogs.

http://brinkschaostheory.blogspot.com/2012/06/finally-non-rejection.html

http://hollyheisey.com/?p=438

This is from someone with mad connections:
"Anonymous source said Joni told them they were the last two to be notified, and so they were free to tell people."

Axe

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Well...

FIRST QUARTER FINALISTS

Jeremy Brink from Texas
Holly Heisey from Arizona
Marina J. Lostetter from Arkansas
Sean Monaghan from Manawatu, New Zealand
Tina Smith from California
Martin Shoemaker from Michigan
Stephen Sottong from California
Chris Stamp of Perthshire, United Kingdom

Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :

Is there a Tina Smith here? Seems like I should know that name but form here or the WotF forum or someone I knew a while back I can't recall.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Louis,
That's Gower21 from the WotF forum.

Three straight rejects then BAM - Finalist.

She's a great example of what's possible, and not giving up.

Axe

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Jennifer? Did you hear anything?

Me? Nothing, nada, not a thing. After all of this waiting... I have no idea if it's total rejection or whatever. How about you?

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

This being left in the void has happened to me a lot MB. I sit on my hands while rejections, HM's, and Semi' and Finalists get passed out. I usually get my answer a week after everyone else. Just keep an eye on your mailbox.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

At this point it doesn't matter what the response is. With the finalists named, all that's left are various levels of rejection. The only thing I care about at this point is whether my story got entered -- because I never received confirmation of that.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by axeminister:
Louis,
That's Gower21 from the WotF forum.

Three straight rejects then BAM - Finalist.

She's a great example of what's possible, and not giving up.

Axe

And then, on the other end of the spectrum, there's me and others in the same boat: 15 quarters entered with a pile of HMs but not a whiff of finalist. I'm the poster child for being good but not good enough. (Can you tell I'm in a depressed mood this morning?)

Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :

Dave Farland will, in his next Daily Kick discuss what it takes to go above and beyond the HM level. Stay tuned!

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I appreciate the help that Dave Wolverton offers to writers, new and experienced, through his Daily Kick and his workshops. However, a lot of his teachings seem to be based on the idea that you can analyze the stories/books that have done well, make a checklist of common traits and write your story based off those traits. There are writers out there who can write well based off a checklist, but I'm not one of them.

Besides, I doubt there will be anything on DW's newest checklist today that I don't already know, in theory -- just as everything on his "10 reasons I reject" list was basic common sense. As I'm sure everyone here is aware, there's a big difference between saying "do this and don't do this" and doing it.

Posted by Crystal Stevens (Member # 8006) on :

I've been lurking on this discussion for some time hoping for news on Q1 or a link to what's happening to those entered. But now I'm beginning to wonder if I might be in Q2 instead of Q1. I sent my entry in around the tail end of December. Could it be possible it wasn't received until some time in January? Wouldn't that put it in Q2 instead of Q1?

I'm not sure since I sent it hard copy, but I think I either left my phone # or my email address off the title page. Would this disqualify me from the contest? It's just that, like some of you, I haven't heard a thing and would like to know what's going on. Yeah, I'm well aware I'm not the only one. LOL

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Joni goes by the postal stamp, not the day she receives the envelope.
Tina Smith is proof of this!
She submitted like 11:50pm to an all night postal service on December 31st. (Actually, her husband dashed out the door with the envelope.)
So, you should be in Q1.

However, I understand your doubts. I subbed on the 30th and my trace of the package showed it arrived on Jan 3.

So. We keep waiting.

I'm thinking...... Thursday.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

If you included a way to contact you on your cover sheet, you're good. On mine, the phone number I had back in December has now been disconnected, but that's not going to matter when it comes to judging. As for Q1 or Q2, it's not when your story arrives at the WotF offices but when you sent it. One of the finalists sent in her entry by paper on Dec. 20, so we know those entries got read.

I would be shocked if any of us still waiting received an e-mail ... what's the point now that the finalists have been announced? I have a feeling that we'll find out if or how we placed when the list goes up on the blog. If you're not there, then contact Joni and find out if you were entered at all.

Side note: I've read Wolverton's HM Daily Kick and there's nothing revelatory in there: be original, and use good writing and struture. As I said before, easy to say, harder to do.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Yes, Jennifer, I hear you. Rejection is all that is left. I'm still puzzled as to being in the 'HOLD' category and still hearing nothing, especially after all this time.

My entry was definitely 'beyond known space' with aliens (and not 'rubber suit' aliens either) carefully constructed to have a viable and very different culture. A lot of work, for what?

Yeah, I guess I can say I'm disappointed too.

Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :

I was holding out hope that one of you guys left would break through that glass ceiling and get at least a finalist vote.

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

me, too.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Still no results.
At this point I feel a query isnt rude.
I'll report my findings.

Axe

Posted by Strycher (Member # 9821) on :

quote:
Originally posted by axeminister:
Still no results.
At this point I feel a query isnt rude.
I'll report my findings.

Axe

What! It's only been six months! Geeez, patience man. Patience. [Cool]

(Can't wait to hear what Joni says, btw)

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Well, Axe, what did you find out? I know that Jennifer and I want to know whether we broke the glass ceiling (whatever that is), or, whether all we got for our wait was... REJECTION! Such sweet sorrow it is...
mbwood

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

I haven't heard back yet.
The cool thing about Joni is that she could answer back any day of the week.

Although I have considered that if she is planning the full list for early in the week that she may not get back to me on a personal level out of fairness to others.

Axe

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Jennifer, I just received this at June 27, 2012 2:22:57 AM EDT:

"Dear Entrant,

Your story has now been judged and did not win or place in the 1st quarter. Even though you have never had to wait for results in order to submit for the next quarter, this hopefully gives you incentive to submit again. The more often you enter, the better chance you have of winning, and improving your skills.

I do urge you to join our forum if you have not already, or subscribe to our judge, David Farland's newsletter. Lots of great tips at both locations to help you. I do hope you are already working on that next story and do let me know that you did get this e-mail.

Best regards,
Joni Labaqui"

Did you receive the same message? This comes after being placed on HOLD CATEGORY for two months? This is a cruel way to reject a story.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

MB, I agree.

At least take the time to change the wording for those who have been waiting this long. That's the least they could do.

But these forms going out to the hold pile people are blowing my mind. Quite a few from established writers on the WotF forum also.

Axe

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Sorry, MB. That sucks that you've waited this long only to get a form rejection. I understand there were unusual circumstances, but this quarter has really put me off of the contest, so much so that I'm thinking about taking a break from it. This is blowing my mind, too. Writers who have been a consistent presence on the HM list or above are getting form rejects. Different judge, different tastes.

And, no I haven't heard anything yet. None of the LAMPS have except for the ones who got the finalist call. All I received last night was a confirmation that I was entered in Q3.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Joni responded to my query. Straight rejection, 190 days. Sigh. That's a long time to wait for nothing. At least it's over.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

I am sorry to hear that Jen and MB. It sucks when you have to wait after all the good news has come and gone to find out you were unceremoniously dumped. Been there and done that for this contest before.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

Unceremoniously dumped ... yeah, that's exactly how I feel right now, like: "Oh, yeah, we forgot you were still there."

Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :

Hey, Jennifer; me too, I got the feeling that we got dumped because the new regime ran out of time, or, they picked the winners before checking those in the hold category.

Unceremoniously dumped, yeah, that kinda describes it.

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

I've been dumped too.

Fortunately this is my favorite story, so I don't feel like it's garbage and no good. I still love it.

Even if it doesn't find a home elsewhere, I'm still really pleased with it.

Axe

Posted by Crystal Stevens (Member # 8006) on :

I still haven't heard a thing, and I sent a return envelope along with my entry. I'm pretty sure I got rejected due to the long wait and what you folks have already said. I just wished they'd send my manuscript back. I keep looking for it in the mail.

I also dug out my story and reread it. I can't believe how bad it reads to me now, and not because of the long wait. It just doesn't read near as well as it did when I sent it in. I honestly think if I was judging, I'd reject it too.

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

I was wondering whether you'd heard anything, Crystal. Dustin and I both had to query Joni to get a response, so you might consider doing the same thing. I get the feeling from the bloodbath that has resulted from DW reading the "holds" and LAMPS that he's going to be tougher to get past than KDW was. We're all going to have to up our game.

Posted by Strycher (Member # 9821) on :

We have 2 Semi-Finalist announcements on the WotF forum.

Posted by MJNL (Member # 9686) on :

With the semis now informed, I think we can't be far away from the blog list. Especially since when Joni sent me my Q2 entry confirmation yesterday she seemed hopeful that we finalists would hear a yay or nay in the next few days.

So, those still lost in the weeds should hear something soon!

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

One winner has come forth.

3rd place: Stephen Sottong from California

Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :

The blog post for Q1 is up, and the epic quarter is officially over. Read all about it here.

Posted by Strycher (Member # 9821) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JenniferHicks:
The blog post for Q1 is up, and the epic quarter is officially over. Read all about it here.

Yay! FINALLY! Congrats to Marina!, who I think has wandered over here.

Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :

Sorry guys--that's rough news. This has been an insane quarter. Between you and me, I'm almost glad I didn't have a story for it! Also, I'm not sure I would read too much into the rejections, especially the hold ones. You might even want to revamp your beginning 450, change your title, and try again with it a bit later.

Hopefully life (and the contest) can return to "normal" now!

Posted by MJNL (Member # 9686) on :

Yep, I'm here. Thank you!

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Everyone who entered Q1:

Can we get a final count on the HM's and (if any) above?

The original post is traditionally edited to become a showcase for those who received some form of recognition for the contest.

Despite this massively messed up quarter, let's still keep track of who "made it".

You know, for posterity.

Axe

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

So nothing? We got stiffed this quarter? Wow. Been a long time since that happened.

EDIT: Okay, so I just went through the thread and the WotF blog announcement and grabbed four HMs. Definitely NOT a shutout. Great job, you guys. If I've missed anyone, lemme know and I'll throw your name up on the Page Primus.

[ August 02, 2012, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: WriterDan ]

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Shut out? How about a home run? I thought MJNL won second place this quarter.

Lots of HM's this quarter, Me, Ute, LD, Owasm... I'm sure there was more