Authors here may present their first through final drafts for critiquing. Also, this group should provide a place to discuss issues and resolutions to various chapters, scenes, characters, and plots. These prospective dialogs should give to a much more creativity minded writing environment. As we solidify what we, as a group, want here I will amend this, or create a new group topic outlining our expectations.

Members in current chapter exchange rotation:

MartinV
MikeL
LDWriter2
Smiley
axeminister
History
enigmatiuser
bobbyshane

_________________________________________________________________

Should any feel the need for help addressing issues with any part of their own story please post the question or email the group.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 25, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 27, 2011).]

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[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited February 12, 2011).]
 

Let me start by including my genre and a basic background to my storyline:

Science Fiction ~ My story has it's beginning in the year 2933 where advanced technology is suffering from malnourishment and psychic abilities, some powerful, are seen as a dangerous disease that needs to be quarantined or cured.

www.mikelambson.com

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited December 24, 2010).]
 

The novel I'd like to use for this group is Symbiosis and is hard science fiction. It follows a combat surgeon- turned-cruise ship doctor whose cruise ship has been invaded by sentient symbiotic aliens. When he becomes host to one of them, he is given a choice that will shape the genetic future of mankind.

[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited December 24, 2010).]
 

Well... maybe I could start one?

[This message has been edited by PB&Jenny (edited December 24, 2010).]
 

Or there is a SF novel that is finished and still needs work even though I have revised at least two and a quarter times. This one might be YA or something close to YA. Is there another step before adult? Anyway, it takes place on another planet, one colonize mostly by refugees from a Star Nation ruled by a Dictator. The MC is searching for clues to the original landing when she accidently discovers someone else is searching for Nukes hidden on the planet and is planning on testing a couple of them on two cities for revenge. So it becomes a race to see if she and her helpers can stop the guy before he sets off the Nukes. This one is somewhere between 74 to 78 words long.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited December 24, 2010).]
 

In a way this is like the WSG, but it differs by letting us start from ground zero. I know I am nearly there.

Here I would like to be able to collaberate whenever we want to, about any possible novel idea we have. Hopefully by doing all of this and working with each other closely, we will get the feedback we need and have the creative juices flowing as we put pen to paper.

This is my idea of this group, call us the CEBN, the BNSG, or some other cool acronym.

------------------------------------------------------

As the holidays can take our attention, I don't expect us to jump in right away. For the next week or so, let's solidify all of those ready to participate.

On monday 12/27/2010, I plan to email everyone listed up top, and anyone else that want's to join us. We can get a general idea of how and when we all want to start sending parts or ideas of our works.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited December 24, 2010).]
 

Sindari is a slave embroiled in a scheme to free her people from the empire that subjugated her culture, relying on cunning and a newly discovered ability to control elemental energy.
 

quote:

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Time Hunter Nick Stone is a tracker for hire. He is brought on board by the only authorized time travel agency in the world because, before regulation, it caused too many rifts and paradox problems. Nick brings in unregulated users - criminals, and collects a healthy reward for each. He learns too late that other forces are manipulating events throughout time and more and more 'criminals' are disappearing from their lock-down cells.

He and his friends, Doctor Matisse, who perfected time travel, and the beautiful double agent, Precious McCorison, are being hunted themselves by the very criminals they put behind bars. Running out of time and options to return everything back to 'their' normal, or as close to it as possible, they have to choose between giving up entirely or joining the very people causing the problems in the first place, before their very existence is forever erased.

---

Or something really, really similar to that.

without reading the novel or any parts of it yet you might try removing a couple of the "they looked dreamingly into each other's eyes" type of scenes.

The novel I am submitting for this chapter exchange has romance, most UF seems to have some romance even though mine was not planned, but I'm pretty sure it's not the main emphasis so the novel would not be considered Romance UF even though I may need a second opinion on that now that you mentioned your problem and I may not to cut something out if that is the case.

Outside of the paragraph long sentence I had thought about saying it's your book you decide what it is but there's the question of what an agent and/or editor would think it is. That I may not be able to say even if I read the whole book even though I could give it a try.

The relationship is very important to the overall plot, there's no getting away from that and I wouldn't want it to. I'd just rather have it be a fantasy with romantic elements than a romance with fantasy elements, ya know?
 

I'm not sure if the intention is to find a partner for their entire book or not. It may be a while before I finish and I'd love to just do a few chapter's swap.

This is for my crime/psychological thriller novel.

Axe

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited December 27, 2010).]
 

It's seven pages (20 if I use Standard Manuscript Format). Let me know if Times New Roman is OK or if you want me to use SMF.

Also, I posted the query for this story in the query challenge if you want to know the basic layout.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited December 28, 2010).]
 

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited December 30, 2010).]
 

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited December 31, 2010).]
 

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 09, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 10, 2011).]
 

Hmmm, seems like there are different people here compared to those E-mailing. But obviously one question we had has been answered already.
 

LOL PB&Jenny, I hope it delivers. Your comment really made me smile and get all excited. I feel like the kid ready to show off for his friends. I don't know if I was able to pull all the emotion I intended in one short prologue without going too far, so please let me know.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 10, 2011).]
 

Very helpful.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 16, 2011).]
 

If so you will get mine tomorrow.

Mine should be going out tomorrow too...I'll double check but I think I was listed for next week.
 

BTW I think I am going to make it a part of another chapter early in the book. I have talked with a few people and based on one of the critiques I have already recieved, I see it needful.

My prologue, nightmare, doesn't flow quite right with the rest of the story. It is also extremely rough; I knew it needed a lot of work. Keep in mind, this is my first novel, and with it comes a huge learning curve for me to tackle. Right now I don't know what I don't know, but I know that I don't know a lot.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 16, 2011).]
 

quote:

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Right now I don't know what I don't know, but I know that I don't know a lot

---

That is precisely why it is hard for newbies to revise their own stories.

And it's a lesson I am still learning. I keep thinking I have learned enough to know something, to recognize what I need to know. But so far that hasn't worked out.

But that's one reason for these writing circle sites and why we read books written by pros and why we practice, practice, and practice and of course practice.
 

Hopefully, I sent everything-including a story to another group- to the right people.

Am I too late to join this group?

Cheers
 

I have not participated to date because of the criteria stated in the Original Post for "those of us just starting or in the beginning stages of a novel."

As some of you are aware, I completed my first novel last August during my convalescence after cornoary stenting, and I appreciate the critique by Forum Members of the first 13 lines. I believe the first chapter(s) is (are) the weakest and would benefit from critique, if permissible in this Chapter Exchange Group or, if not, by anyone with interest.

Please see: http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum26/HTML/000929.html

If I have intruded inappropriately into this Group, please accept my apologies in advance and ignore this post.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 

Now I have five crits.

But History, since no one has responded I would say it seems like you can hook up at the tail end, someone just did that.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 24, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 24, 2011).]
 

I do not find exact criteria of conduct in the proceding posts.
What sort of critique is desired?
1) Proofreading only
2) Personal feedback on story flow and if the author maintains my interest; identifying any points of confusion.
3) Editorial critique (word/sentence/paragraph structure).
Etc.

Thread members who wish me to critique their chapter(s) [is there a page limit?] can email me. I have some time next week to do so. Tell me what sort of critique you desire.

If anyone wishes to read and critique a chapter(s) of mine, just let me know. Here's a forschbise (appetizer):

The Kabblist: The Foundation of the Kingdom is an urban fantasy novel set in the narrow streets, alley bars, mansions, and subway tunnels of Boston and incorporates the mystical traditions and folklore of Judaism, Christianity, and Germanic paganism. It is also a Kabbalistic mystery, and liberally seasoned with Judaic themes, aphorisms, and angst.

There is a demon loose in Boston, and Rabbi Cane has to stop him. As the body count rises, his friends, his enemies, and the police are saying it's his fault.

Cane fears they may be right.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Axe
 

Authors here may present their first through final drafts for critiquing. Also, this group should provide a place to discuss issues and resolutions to various chapters, scenes, characters, and plots. These prospective dialogs should give to a much more creativity minded writing environment. As we solidify what we, as a group, want here I will amend this, or create a new group topic outlining our expectations.

Currently there is no limit imposed restricting chapter length. I would suggest that if a chapter is over 25 pages long it may need divided into separate chapters.

P.S. I like the term Writers Chapter Exchange or W.C.E for this group. Would any be opposed to renaming?

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 25, 2011).]
 

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 

I just figured out that I sent out an incomplete chapter one. Anyone want to crit the rest of it? The new section is 1850 words long. My mistake so I will understand if you are all busy.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 27, 2011).]
 

quote:

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I just figured out that I sent out an incomplete chapter one.

---

It felt whole to me.

No offense, LDWriter2, but it seems to me like you need some serious improvement in management. I saw at least two similar 'oopses' last week. If you sent your queries or partials the same way, no agent or editor will take you seriously. Just trying to help.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 27, 2011).]
 

I'm good with that.
 

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 

Not sure if this is still the place for this but yeah, I do at times forget things I want to include but in this case there's a reason. I did this novel with NaNoWrMo. I worked on it at work and at home. So I had to transfer the stuff done at work to my main computer. I ended up with a bunch of chapter parts... chapter one A, chapter one B, chapter three A and so on. I have twenty plus parts. At the end I put all the parts together and evidently skipped one for chapter one. I found that out when I started on redoing chapter two. Good thing I saved the parts.

Yeah, I know parts are parts.
 

WCE - Writers Chapter Exchange

Also, since I did create the new topic would you please delete it?

Thanks,
Mike
 

Someone said something about doing more than one chapter, so are we going to do the next chapters..two, three so on? Or is that another version of the one we sent in.

And I assume that is after everyone is done with their first chapter.
 

May I suggest something I learned from Forum Member Matt Leo?

Matt instructed me on the way he critiques a manuscript, and I have found this very enlightening:

"I look at manuscripts on three scales: the micro (basic high school composition: word choices, grammar, usage, paragraph flow); the macro (plot, characterization and theme, world); and finally the meso-scale (atmosphere and mood; setting; pacing; story flow; rhythm)."

I find that these need be mastered sequentially; that is, unless the "micro" is near perfect, the reader/editor will not be able to appreciate or as effectively critique the "macro" or the "meso."

I would not presume to send anyone a chapter I have not spell-checked or re-read for grammatical errors and poorly worded sentences, etc.

I very much would welcome suggestions in improving the structure of a sentence; however, my hope would be that the majority of my manuscript would be free of "micro"-errors, and you could focus on story flow and characterization improvements.

I'm only on my second of two critiques for our WCE Group, but would it be inappropriate to suggest that the participating authors perform a first revision of their chapter for "micro" errors (spelling, etc.) before submitting it for critique? This will allow more time to focus on the substantive aspects of the story and story flow.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

[This message has been edited by History (edited January 30, 2011).]
 

I believe my texts have few spelling errors since I am rather perfectionist. What I lack is experience with English grammar. A sentence might sound sane to me but given to an English-speaking person they would find it completely ridiculous. This considered, I am not above being told what grammar mistakes I'm making. I imagine that in this particular piece my primary mistakes are tense and clause. I am still experimenting with English, trying things out, using the old trial and error way of learning. So if you find a mistake that is constantly appearing, do mark it and tell what I'm doing wrong.
 

I am just sharing Matt Leo's method of manuscript critique for WCE participants to consider.

My suggestion regarding doing the best each of us can on the "micro" (spelling, etc.) before we forward a chapter for critique will permit a more efficient and effective use of each reviewer's time--allow us to get to the macro/meso meat of the manuscript.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

P.S. I just finished your chapter and sent it back to you. Thank you for the opportunity to read and comment upon it.
 

quote:

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Someone said something about doing more than one chapter, so are we going to do the next chapters..two, three so on?

---

I thought I'd pointed you all at the novel critique suggestions topic in the Ways to Critique area, but maybe I haven't.

Anyway, I offer it now, in case you'd be interested in trying one or more of the suggested arrangements in how you approach each others' chapters.
 

Speaking of which, didn't we say new chapters will be send on Sundays? It's Monday evening now and I see nothing in my e-mail bin.
 

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited February 01, 2011).]
 

Thanks, can't wait!
 

[This message has been edited by coralm (edited February 03, 2011).]
 

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 

Go Packers!

Axe
 

And are we going to start over again or have we started over again?

I think I'm getting some of the groups mixed up with the Challenges
 

Axe
 

But This, and the other groups and/ or challenges will be all I will be doing on hatrack for the next one to four weeks. I need to sacrifice something to get the chapters revised I want redone and the story for Q2 of WotF done... not to mention the inhuman challenge.
 

10 - 15 pages a week to crit is good. Actually, it's really good because it keeps the crit muscles going at all times. Along with a deadline. (Practice for later on )

Besides, I want to see where these stories are going.

The only thing I'd like to request of the group is to please include your original chapter when you send chapter two. After a two month loop, I'd like to scan the previous before reading on.

And if you've edited the original based on feedback - even better.

Axe
 

My chapter(s) just went out. If anyone didn't receive, let me know.

Axe

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited February 06, 2011).]
 

Are there any late comers who didn't get my first chapter and would want to read it (Arena)? Because when it's my turn I will send chapter 2 and it won't make much sense if you havent' read chapter 1.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited February 06, 2011).]
 

This way we can get reminded and check out any changes that may have been done.

Axe
 

Maybe I can do some on that holiday coming up.
 

Also have you guys thought about maybe using google docs and sharing documents instead of emailing back and forth... that would probably help with needing to go back and look at old chapters, etc. Plus you can edit on there... I'm not sure if you can add notes but you might be able to.
 

And since you showed up during my week, you get to start with my chapter(s). Bwa ha ha!

Can we add BobbyShane to the group?

Googledocs huh?
Gonna go check that out.

Axe
 

And Google docs does have the typical "Insert->Comment" and it actually put's the person's name of who's commenting with the comment and etc. It seems like it would be pretty sweet for exchanging work and etc. Only thing is you have to have a google account though. But its free and very useful. Here's a list of the features available in google docs: http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html
 

I am sorry, but I won't be able to critique anything for a bit. I will still keep this forum up to date and keep an eye on the emails, but I can't participate as much for a few weeks. I have some family issues including serious illness, which must take precedence for the next few weeks.

Again, I will still keep the forum up to date with any changes in membership etc...

Thanks for your support,
Mike
 

Pardon me for putting this here but for all those who read my First chapter for Bright Lights. I am thinking of changing the first name of my MC. Now it's Kerry Bedrosian. but I have thought about giving it some type of uniqueness. So I thought of Sierra like the mountains or Mauve like the color. I choose the color because it's close to her mother's real name.

I not only like the uniqueness of either name but the Character I sort of, kinda, in a way based her on is called October Daye. So the new name would kinda of go along with that type of name and it would sort of, kinda of, in a way be a tribute to the Daye.
 

I prefer Sierra to Mauve tho. One sounds like a name, one sounds like a color.

Just my opinion, and you know the common phrase about opinions.

Axe
 

But Mauve is a color. If Seanan McGuire can name her character after a month I can name mine after a color. Of course to really adopt the same type of name I would need a different last name. Something that goes with the color. But that would be true for Sierra too but the last name would have to do with mountains. Sierra Lake maybe or Trail or something with an old fashion spelling.

But I still haven't made up my mind. I do want something more unique than I have though.
 

Mauve sounds good to me. I think of a person with a sobriety about them, it feels a bit weightier than Sierra which sounds slightly flighty to me (which is odd because the Sierra mountains are not flighty).
 

Axe
 

quote:

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Mauve sounds good to me. I think of a person with a sobriety about them, it feels a bit weightier than Sierra which sounds slightly flighty to me (which is odd because the Sierra mountains are not flighty).

---

Took me a while to respond but thanks for the comments everyone.

The other day I thought of a completely different name that seemed to fit better but forgot it already.

How about Lightning??? That wasn't it but it would almost fit her.

And the Sierras aren't very flighty even though they are not as weighty as the Rockies

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited February 27, 2011).]
 

not well this mnth. will comeback later

Smiley
 

Fantasy setting. My own little world > . Only two species: Dragons and humans. Dragons aren't introduced early though.

1st Chapter is 2275 words.
2nd Chapter is 3788 words.

I will work hard on getting the next few chapters done. I already have them in mind just need to type it out.
 

(Martin, I'll have for you soon.)

Louis is up next. Bright Lights & Chaos - chapter 2.

Axe
 

Axe
 

And my chapter is going out tonight, hopefully between 7:30 and 8:15 Pacific Time.
 

Anyway, looking forward to it LD.

Has Montag been injected into the list? And it seems like it would be helpful to have a full list posted every week. I mean, if we're paying attention to our emails we'll know who just went, look at the list and say "ok, I'm up next."

 

Also, I didn't know to add Montag to the list. Somehow I missed the post...

LD, send your chapter to the firebat and we'll absorb he into the fold.

Axe
 

From my point of view it's probably closer to .50 of a review. I don't think I will find a lot to be critical of. We shall see of course when I take a closer look.

But I think this is the fourth story and chapter that I didn't find much I could say. Except with what was done right that is. Either most of you here are improving significantly or I'm slipping in my reading habits.

Like, I'm a pretty tolerant reader. I'll find something that in a story that is the equivalent of a guy in the theater next to me saying something during the movie. The movie is fine, but the guy just reminded me it's just a movie. Or on the flipside, seeing a scene that was just so amazing that I stop to look around like "did anyone else see that?"

So when I review someone else's work, every time I find a speed bump or one of those "wow" moments I stop and write a comment whether good or bad. It's just a matter of training yourself not to ignore those subtley different sounds coming from under the hood. "What was that throbbing sound? Is my engine out of tune? Is the wheel pulling...oh it's not too bad..." then you get used to it and ignore it.

"This writer uses unnecessary prose...well I don't like it, but someone else might" I think that's the most tempting. We don't want to be hard on a writer when it's just our opinion, but the thing is all of their readers will have opinions. He/She can't write for the opinionless writer, and each opinion will come back from a different perspective, we need to help them see what others might see in their writing by being ourselves. Not by giving them the non-opinions of a hypothetical third person.

That's how I approach it anyway, and anyone is free to let me know they'd like less feedback then I give.
 

As for reviews and crits. I know that you can say positive or good things about a story. I usually do but with most stories that doesn't take long to type out, even when I point out scenes with good techniques.
 

I sent another file with .rtf . If you are having problems you may not have received it

For some reason I attached the wrong file originally, too much of a hurry probably.

Anyone else get the wrong file?
 

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited March 20, 2011).]
 

Dr. Bob
 

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited April 03, 2011).]
 

Who's next on the list? I know we didn't get around to me yet.
 

There seems to be a few folks who have vanished, but still a few folks who are digging the exchange.

I'll send an e-mail with the active names on it and the order.

If you find yourself missing from the list and want to be back on it, say something in here.

Axe
 

quote:

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Ok, I feel like I'm talking to myself.

---

Two things here:
Hey, you're a writer, you sit around all day making up stuff: wonderful, fantastic, sometimes life encouraging, you tell lies for a living and get away with it. Of course you talk to yourself.

And if you are like most people here, um, some people here- well, a small handful of people here you do talk to yourself.

Edit: Ok, I've sent chapter 3 to Dustin, rfinegold, Jesse and ldwriter2. If anyone's missing, let me know.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited April 17, 2011).]
 

Jk, none of us are like that. I mean none of us spend our time reimagining...the world...as...hmmm...dang maybe I am one of those people.
 

It is worth it, it forces you to face the flaws in your own work which might put off a potential reader if you're going e-publishing or an editor or agent when they see it.

We're open to more people, but it would really be great if that someone could consistently review other people's work in the week, and on their turn in rotation post promptly on Sundays or near about. So if you'd like to join, contact myself (enigmaticuser/Jesse) or one of the other regulars: MartinV, LDWriter2, axeminister, History.
 

Please continue to include me on the email list as I won't intrude and may find a moment to critique some of your work from time to time.
 

The rock and hard place makes a nice title for a UF book though.
 

Wow, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for! I see you're open to new members and I'd be really keen to join--the only problem I see is I'd hate to start critting someone's novel half way through the thing so I think if I can join that I'll be playing catch up for a little while though I reckon I'd soon be able to catch up with the crits.

As for my own novel; it's dark fantasy and I'm currently into chapter 7 (22 thousand words)
 

Mike, it's no problem. Hopefully you can get the roller coaster to slow down a bit for a while.

Wonderbus. Maybe what you can do is simply read the first few chapters to get caught up, then crit only the newest chapter? That way you don't have a mountain of crits to climb. If that sounds OK we can throw you in the mix.

We're trying to max out at around 5k words on chapter exchange, so if you have 7 into 22 then that sounds OK.

Axe

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited May 02, 2011).]
 

And if anybody does want some comments on earlier chapters that'll be no problem at all; just let me know when you send the chapters over.
 

I'll send out a global e-mail now to get everyone back in the loop.

Axe
 

LDWriter2, R&HP will not a title for another novel, but a title for a part of my story. My main character will be stuck in a mining prison...when he tries to escape he finds the prison is...in space. "Rock and a very hard place", any takers?

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited May 02, 2011).]