This was a critique group for writers that entered a story into the second quarter of 2011 in the Writers of the Future contest (28th year).
After the end of the quarter, entries submitted have been responded to as thus:
Semi-finalist: Jennifer Hicks
Honorable Mentions: Trina Phillips (genevive42) Wordcaster Brendan Joseph (Brendan) Amr (Osiris) thomaskcarpenter
Congratulations to everyone that submitted!
If you participated in the group and got some kind of award for this quarter, let me know and I'll add you to the list.
These are our Woo-hoos!
(Original posts from the quarter shown below)
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited July 13, 2011).]
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Throwing myself back into the ring on this quarter.
Dark Warrior
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I'm always in. (Unless I win, of course)
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm
Posted by eyegore242 (Member # 9317) on :
ill jump in on this also
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I guess I will too.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
I'm in. Don't know with what yet, but I'm in.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua
Posted by RoxyL (Member # 9096) on :
Never have done it before, but I'll give it a shot. I'm in.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
Hello all. recently joined Hatrack, although I have tried a few other crit groups over the past few years. I am looking forward to working with you all.
-Brian
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Count me in as well.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason Osiris
Posted by walexander (Member # 9151) on :
I think I have work balanced out enough now to do Q2. It messed up my whole 2nd draft world for Q1.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason Osiris walexander
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I'm in, too.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
Good luck this quarter. I've already got my story for Q2 ready to be sent in, so I'll skip until Q3 (or hopefully I'll win!) and join you all for fun.
If someone really needs an extra read on their story though, I'll be happy to look at it.
Posted by coralm (Member # 9274) on :
I'm going to give this a try for the first time in Q2
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks CoralM
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
Congrats Tom on the Silver HM in Q3!
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks CoralM Ethereon
Wow, this is getting big. Do you ever divide into three groups Writer Dan?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
@Ethereon: Haven't had to yet, but at the rate this quarter is going...
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I forgot to say that I would have to decide whether to take time off from my novels and redoing parts of my Nano novel, and write a new story or do one of my older ones.
Sounds like, in either case, a medium to long SF would be better to try. I do have a shorter one that needs to be revised, I never finished doing that so have never sent it out, but after my Q1 story I got a feeling it may not be for them.
Posted by RoxyL (Member # 9096) on :
As a newbie WOTF-er I was wondering if you consider it bad form to ask for advice on which story idea to write? I have two, and a distant third, and after reading all the wonderful advice I'm kinda petrified to move forward on any. Is it okay to post a very brief description to get some feedback as to which may hold more appeal for the judges? Or better just to guess? Thanks!
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Just my opinion, but: If any of us really knew what KDW was looking for, we'd all have won by now. The best advice I can give is to (a) read past anthologies to get an idea of what kinds of stories win and (b) use that knowledge to write the best story you can and hope for the best.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
@RoxyL: Ditto what Jennifer said.
Just decide which idea is the most ready and run with it. Then don't look back until it's done. Even then, don't look back. It's just on to the next.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited December 06, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I was going to stop working on shorts and focus on some novels. But my recent result has me thinking I should give this another try. Count me in.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua RoxyL bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks CoralM Ethereon genevive42
Posted by RoxyL (Member # 9096) on :
Hey guys, Sorry, but I'm going to have to drop out. I've had a few things happen that will not be resolved in the next month. They would make it very difficult for me to give my full attention to this. Maybe it'll help you all since the group is getting so huge. Good luck!
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks CoralM Ethereon genevive42
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
I'm out this time around as well. Pretty bummed about it, but real life is not chillin enough for me to write. I'll miss you guys, but I'll be cheering from the sidelines.
Axe
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
If I were anything other than a half-psychotic insomniac, I'd be bailing on this quarter as well. But...well...I'm not. Hope things get better for you, Axe. Won't be the same without you.
Posted by TamesonYip (Member # 9072) on :
I have high hopes for nest quarter but unless something changes, I will be too exhuasted to handle it. But, I'll be watching from sidelines.
Also, regarding what story- even if it doesn't win, if you have a complete, edited story you can submit it to another pro market.
Posted by coralm (Member # 9274) on :
I'm taking myself out of this, I've got too many things going on at the moment. I'll pick it up for Q3
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks Ethereon genevive42
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Less than a week until Christmas for those who celebrate it. Anyone find time to start their Q2 draft yet?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hey, mine is written and revised-more than once- already.
Of course it's been sitting around for over six weeks waiting for me to remember to get it ready to send out.
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
Allow me to return the group to lucky 13.
Writer Dan Dark Warrior Owasm eyegore LDWriter2 shimiqua bwthomason Osiris walexander JenniferHicks Ethereon genevive42 aspirit
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
quote:Less than a week until Christmas for those who celebrate it. Anyone find time to start their Q2 draft yet?
Yup, because I don't really celebrate Christmas I'm not Christian but we usually just treat Christmas like a second thanksgiving.
Anyway, that leaves me time to write. I'm about 50% done with the first draft, thought I'd started with it already before this thread started.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Still trying to put the finishing touches on my Q01 entry and waffling over which story I'm going to write. I have two new ones outlined in my head, and the beginning of another that is sounding really interesting to me. Thing is, one of the two that is outlined is a sci-fi story and I KNOW how much WotF likes sci-fi more than they like fantasy. What's a good fantasy nut like me supposed to do?
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I actually have my first two scenes written (out of an anticipated six- maybe seven). This story has been burning in my brain but life and X-mas have been slowing me down on it.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I haven't written a word yet. That's partly because I'm busy with holiday stuff and partly because I'm still in research and brainstorm mode. But once I get down to writing, I expect it'll be fairly fast process.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
we have to wait all the way to the 14th???
Mine is done,
unless I decide to do a new one..I do have time but probably not.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
Patience LD. I'm still in exploratory mode. I've got a great start and solved a problem. I think I may do some scene outlining, myself. I've got to keep this little thing under ten thousand words (My goal) and get the plot in.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Owasm I know. If I didn't have it finished already I would probably be only half way done by now.
I'm sure it still needs lots of work though.
But since I want to do a fresh piece for Q3, I can start thinking now. With my other writing it might take me that long to do it. Unless I decide to do some of my Urban Fantasy. Don't know what they think of UF. I know they get a lot of fantasy but UF is a specific type.
Ohhh boy, just got an idea for an opening for a UF...again.
But what would an unicorn be looking for in a major US city?
Hmmm, just got an idea for a short humorous one...too cliche-ish though.
Posted by eyegore242 (Member # 9317) on :
ok i know your supposed to use an before a word starting with a vowel but 'an unicorn' just doesn't sound right at all.
and if your really itching to get it out you can send it to me ill take a look at it
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Yes, it sounds odd because phonetically you are starting with a consonant (yoonicorn ) which is always preceded by 'a' instead of 'an'
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
I have my whole story outlined but only @ 3k on paper at this point. I am also trying to keep this to 10k, because the markets for stories 10k+ drops off pretty quick.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I believe it would be 'a' unicorn, just like you would say, 'he's a unique character'. The 'an before a vowel' rule doesn't apply for the reason Osiris mentioned.
Posted by eyegore242 (Member # 9317) on :
well now we know the proper way to say a unicorn... now down to the real business... whats the best seasoning to use on roast unicorn
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Would it be okay to let my Q4 2010 submission miss the deadline and use it for this quarter's group, even though some people signed up for Q1 2011 read prior iterations?
An experienced critiquer who read my story really liked it and recommended I should give it the time it needs to be the best it can be and not worry about deadlines.
Would people in this group be okay with that?
[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited December 21, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Fine with me, Osiris.
Unicorn goes great with paprika, pepper and garlic. It's good chili meat, too.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
@Osiris: That's what I did for this last quarter. First round of this story went through in Q03. Had to work it some more and put it through Q04 to get it worthwhile. This time it's going in though. So go for it. We're here to help you. That's the point of all this workshopping stuff. Really, the only thing that I think would be frowned upon would be someone putting a story through our group with no intention of submitting it to the contest once it's done.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Thanks Dan. I'm glad to know it has been done before.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
eyegore if you go to the Nightside-look for Simon R. Green to get there-you can find a restaurant that cooks unicorns anyway you want them. With garlic and chives or on skewers or BBQed The can tell you what wine to get with it too. A very classy place.
Of course the horn will cost a whole lot extra.
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
Just wanted to clarify an earlier post... all of my short stories are written with WoTF hopes foremost. However, I am a realist and want to be able to send them to as many different markets as possible after I receive my fancy WoTF rejection!
-Brian
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I forgot to add last time. You should that restaurant's Surf and turf dish. Kraken and unicorn, of course Kraken is very tough, worse than squid but they know how to fix it.
The Nightside is very hard to get into even though a lot of tourists sure seem to know how. Never can figure that out.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
But back to the topic.
I just remembered another story I would like to send in...it's kinda emotional, at least for my MC.
Come to think of it I do have a SF story that needs revising, but I'm not sure about it. The MC is a young man with emotional baggage who learns there are people he can trust after all. I'm not sure if I really carry it off though with the other events- a huge space battle he accidently gets caught in-of the story.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Just submitted my Q1 entry today. Nearly a month behind schedule I am just now starting research and outlining of my Q2 entry. It will be my longest and most complex entry to date.
Just wanted to say when Jan14 rolls around I will be open to critting my group but I may not have my 1st first ready to send out until the 2nd wave.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Ditto on that one. Though, my story this quarter is a sci-fi that shouldn't be that tough to push out. So, I'll probably only be a little late.
Hope things are going well for everyone. Keep writing.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'm actually 6000 words in and I think I only have one more big scene to write. Not sure if I'm going to need a couple of little ones for support or not. I might actually make the first deadline again.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Well, I sat down to write that last scene and I suddenly have 9000 words. Still my shortest entry yet. I do have one small capper scene and then I'm done.
How's everyone else doing?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I'm at about 3,000 words right now. I probably have another 1,500 to 2,000 to go. That's about the usual length for me.
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
Good. I have between 5,000 and 6,000 words in an interesting mixture of handwritten pages and heavily-marked, cut-up, and reordered print-outs. I've actually enjoyed working on this story.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
With the story I'm doing fine.
Even though I may try to go over it once more...we shall see.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 06, 2011).]
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
I'm past the 2000 word mark and hopefully picking up steam. I'm afraid the first draft is going to be quite short though.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Egads! I finished - at 10,100 words. Still my shortest, but not by much.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
I finished at 14,000 words.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Boy, there's some longwinded people in this contest.
Reminds me of some of my first stories. Couldn't write one under 8,000 words, most were above 10,000 I think, if I had to until I wrote three to five under 3,000 now most of mine are 3,000 to 6,000. Of course that doesn't include the 5 twitter stories.
Maybe I should try for a longer one for the next contest. I think I can still do one that long. I'm not what I once was but I am once what I was. Or words that mean that.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I've never written long, either. I have one story of 10,500 words. Most of mine are in the range of 5,000 to 6,000.
I'm up to 4,000 on my WIP with one scene left to write.
Posted by walexander (Member # 9151) on :
Dan,
we're about 5 days till the fourteenth,
Are you going to divide the groups soon so we know who to send to?
No rush, but just wondering,
W.
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
I am at 5K now. I would say I have @ another 3-4K to go. Its snowing here today so work from home = work on story! I should have my first draft ready by the end of the weekend.
Brian
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
For all the bit-chompers...
Group 1: Writer Dan Dark Warrior LDWriter2 shimiqua walexander JenniferHicks aspirit
Group 2: Owasm eyegore bwthomason Osiris Ethereon genevive42
Will keep this at two groups unless we get two more people for crit-swaps. 15 authors is pretty much my critical mass for three groups.
Send out to your group by the 14th if you can. Looking forward to reading lots of great stories this quarter.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm not sure where to post this, so I'll post it here and if someone wants to collate it into other WotF info, please feel free.
I received the following in an email yesterday, and since I seem to remember this being a topic of discussion at Hatrack in the past (but couldn't find the specific topic) I felt it worth sharing.
quote:...has provided me with your winning hardcopy manuscripts. I would appreciate your sending me those digital files. It is acceptable to make typographical corrections, but there should be no re-writes (or other improvements) in the files that you send.
As we move through our editorial process we send you... the final story as we intend to print it and will get your approval on any editorial work that we have done. Any edits will be minor strictly for clarity. We may need to replace some foul language or make style or consistency changes. With all the different stories and authors' styles we try as much as possible for all stories to follow our house style which makes for a nice book editorially...
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Thanks Ben, that actually answers the question I posted on the WoTF forums last week Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
So, in case of winning, don't make changes to your original story file after you've sent in the story (or keep a copy of the story as submitted). Interesting.
Thanks for sharing, Ben.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
I'm Daniel and I'd like to get in on this if it's not too late. I have never submitted to WotF before but would like to give it a shot. I have a shorter story at ~3500 words. I will put myself in Group 2 since it has one fewer member.
Group 1: Writer Dan Dark Warrior LDWriter2 shimiqua walexander JenniferHicks aspirit
Group 2: Owasm eyegore bwthomason Osiris Ethereon genevive42 dtn
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I just finished my first draft, coming in at a lean 4,500 words. That's a bit shorter than I expected, but not by much. I look forward to reading what everyone has come up with!
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
I just finished my first draft. I'm really loving the story, but the problem is, I don't think it's really a WOTF kind of a story.
So just one more thing to worry about. ~Sheena
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Okay, I've sent mine out to Group 2. Let me know if you didn't get it.
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
Now that the subs are coming in for crit, is there a guidline to what we are focusing on for each round of crits? This is my first time with the group so, I want to make sure I provide the right feed back at each stage of the process.
Brian
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Everyone has their own style of critiquing. I think if someone wants your critique to have a specific focus, they'll mention it in the e-mail when they send the piece. Otherwise, just do what you do.
If in doubt though, on the first round I'd emphasize story and flow.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hmmm, looks like I need to get my story ready with one more look over. But still revising a chapter for the chapter exchange and still taking down Christmas decorations. But I have day or three for those two things.
Or I did. Finished the chapter..well except for a spell check which might take thirty plus minutes.
And the story won't take as long as I thought either once I remembered which one I was going to send for crits. Remembering did take a little time though.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 15, 2011).]
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
LD and the rest of Group 1, my story should be in your Inbox. Please dig it out of your junk folder if it's not.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I've sent my story to Group 1. Please let me know if you didn't get it.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I got aspirt's and Jennifer's.
But to add a PS to my last note. What is left of the Christmas decorations isn't much- one hour of work maybe. We could have taken down the life size lighted angel and the half life size lighted star during the week, in ten minutes, but my wife was busy too.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
I've received drafts from genevive42, osiris and dtn. I'm afraid I'm going to be late with my own draft. Not sure by how much.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Mine should be sent out tomorrow. So far only my usual things to do on Sunday, well except go look for what writing books they have at Barnes and Noble. And use my 15% off coupon.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
genevive42, my comments should be in your inbox. Let me know if you didn't receive them.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Got 'em. Very helpful - Thank you!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Okay, I sent out my story today,
And I received Donavan Darius'. I believe that's three of them.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Osiris, my comments should be in your inbox. Let me know if you didn't get them. dtn, you're up next in the critique que, but I should probably finish my own draft first!
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Thanks Ethereon and Genevieve for the great feedback.
Posted by eyegore242 (Member # 9317) on :
Sorry i havnt been more active the last few days, should have my story and the crits out this weekend.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
My comments should be in your inbox dtn, let me know if you didn't get them. Critiquing sure is a great way to procrastinate on one's own story. Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:Critiquing sure is a great way to procrastinate on one's own story.
Hmm. Never thought of it that way. Do you think some people might consider that a plus?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I find critting plus reading and doing post for the various threads on this site both work toward that goal.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Osiris, thanks for the great comments on my story. They'll definitely help.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
It reminds me a bit of exam week syndrome. Term ends and university students are struck by a sudden desire to bake, clean out the fridge, read Tolsoy etc. It makes one feel a little less guilty about blowing off organic chem review, because afterall,you're doing something productive!
I guess the similarity ends there though. Tolstoy won't help a student's chemistry mark, but the time and words spent citiquing build our skills as writers. So, no complaints here! It's been really fun getting to read other people's work too.
[This message has been edited by Ethereon (edited January 19, 2011).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
This is just getting ridiculous.
So I just finished reading this book (Vicious Grace by MLN Hanover) and there was a point where I was close to the end of a particular chapter, and suddenly something clicked and I said to myself, "This entire chapter is an info dump," but I hadn't realized it because it was all part of conversation, and realization for the characters, and it was INTERESTING. Sooooo cool. And as such, it really inspired me to use this idea for a fantasy story that I had a while ago, and now I have no idea which story I should write.
Is it a bad thing to have too many ideas for stories? How do you guys choose the one you want to write? Anyone else have this problem?
<<sigh>>
Too much time and not enough ideas...wait. Stop that. Reverse it.
Going to try and get to my crits this weekend. I'm really trying. Promise. School is turning up the heat again.
I so totally sound like a broken record. lol.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I envy you, Dan. I strain to come up with every little idea and rarely have more than one at a time.
I've now sent critiques to everyone in Group 1 who sent me a story.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Hey Dan,
I take two things into account when choosing which idea to write on. First, would it suit WotF? I've certainly missed on that, but I'm learning. Second, it has to be grabbing me. This quarter I ended up with an urban fantasy suspense story. I never write urban fantasy, but this story was calling to me. I hope I can pull it off. But I have a better chance of pulling it off if I'm excited about it.
Posted by walexander (Member # 9151) on :
sorry jen-
I'm just finishing my story for group 1,
and started on my crits,
Got distracted on a few small contests I tried and lost, and a few articles that I submitted that I haven't heard back from yet.
I have to admit I was waiting to fill in a detail on my wotf story because I am trying to understand what nanobots are made from, and its an important detail. But I can't find an article on what the heck their composition is. Any help anyone?
I'll send my story out as soon as I finish nit-picking details.
W.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
No apology needed. I look forward to reading your story and your comments on mine, when you have time to send them out.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
I've sent my draft to group 2. Please let you know if you didn't receive it.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:I am trying to understand what nanobots are made from, and its an important detail. But I can't find an article on what the heck their composition is. Any help anyone?
Start a topic in the Open Discussions about Writing area and see if anyone there knows. People with expertise love to answer such questions.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
quote: I have to admit I was waiting to fill in a detail on my wotf story because I am trying to understand what nanobots are made from
My story also features nanites, so I did do some research on this. When you are talking about things this small, you have to think on the molecular level. Nanobots are sometimes referred to as 'molecular machines'. Take a look at this, it should help:
Things seem to be going smoothly. I think I sent out all the crits for the stories I have received and I have gotten back two or three for mine. So far it's better than my last story.
But haven't there been one or two new people added on since the last listing of the two groups? I may be getting this mixed up with the chapter exchange group however.
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
I sent my story to group 2 saturday morning. Please let me know if you did not get it. So far I have received stories to crit from Etheron, dtn, Osiris and Genevive. I finished Genevive's crit last night and will send it back this afternoon.
Brian
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
My owasm domain is in the midst of an unsuccessful transition to a new hosting service. I have another email. Those of you who unsuccessfully sent me a story to review, please resend.
As for my story, I am woefully behind. I've moved my house of 19 years this month as well as spending a week at Disney World with my kids and grandkids.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Received crits from genevive42, dtn, and Osiris. Thanks for your help on one I'm having a tough time with.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Hi eyegore,
Are you still in this? I sent you a quick e-mail and haven't heard back. Did you get it, or did it get lost? I haven't received your story either. I just want to make sure communications are working.
Hope to hear from you.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
All five crits that I've received are now back in their respective laps.
And not word one of my masterpiece has yet been put to pen. Ugh.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Group 2, If you haven't received a crit from me, I didn't get your story.
Also, I was wondering if it would be more helpful to have new eyes on our stories for the second review (after revisions). We have two groups. Perhaps we should consider a group swap for the next phase. Is this totally out of the realm of critiquing norms? Thoughts? dtn
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
That is what we do, dtn.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Excellent!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Yeah, dtn. If you were in Group 1 for the first round, you send your revamped story to Group 2 for the second round. And vice-versa, otherwise.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Just to make sure if anyone didn't receive a crit from me say so. Actually, I discovered one I had forgotten about so there should be one I didn't do.
I have received five so far.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Just finished my second draft. It grew.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Oops, I think my next version will be a tad late. Completely forgot we had a deadline here. Too many other stories, chapters, novels I am redoing. Actually it's only one of each but it all adds up.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Looks like my story won't be late after all, it could be early in fact. I had two more days to work on than I thought.
So it's been revised and spellchecked, even though not sure how much that last helps.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
My second draft just went out to Group 1. Let me know if you didn't get it. Thanks all.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I got it and I forgot all about sending mine out. Now it's too late. But I will get it out tomorrow. I was working revising a chapter two of one novel and getting in more time on another novel.
I finally figured out how my MC gets drugged in that second one. It just came to me as she was getting another cool, very low alcoholic drink. The bartender who just came on shift.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Sorry, I'm a bit behind, my life has been a bit derailed lately due to the events in Egypt. I'll have my draft out to group 2 within two weeks as well as feedback for those from group 1 who have sent me their work.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
In my attempts to suppress the urge to write fantasy and just work on my dissertation...I've finally failed this quarter.
I've had two more ideas for stories that should be really good. The second one broke me and I wrote the first scene. Four more to go till it's done. I really don't want to get kicked out of school, but this is just proving the point that I HAVE TO WRITE!
How's everyone else doing? The only second-round story I've seen so far is from Genevieve and I'm about halfway done with that crit. Anyone else want my thoughts?
Sorry I'm so behind this quarter, peoples. Although, I'm kind of trying to be behind in a way, I guess...
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
My story is out to group 2, and I've finished with the critique on Genevive's story which is the one I've received so far.
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
Migraines, fatigue, and longer commutes than usual have been limiting my personal computer time, and I've fallen behind on critiques and typing a new draft. I still owe critiques to LDWriter2 (Group 1) and genevive (Group 2).If he's still participating, walexander (Group 1) owes me a story and a critique.
There's no chance that my story will go to WOTF this month. Does anyone expect to submit before March?
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'm not worried about submitting before March. I'll submit when I feel the story is ready. The deadlines posted for this group are only suggested. Sort of like telling someone who's chronically late to be somewhere twenty minutes early so they'll arrive on time. Don't sweat it.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
So I've been thinking about this on and off for the last couple of months...
Since Q2 holds some special significance for me after last year, here's a little offer: If you're in this group, putting final touches on a story to submit for Q2 and want an extra critique from someone who's won a quarter, send me your story (but be aware that my current workload might mean a couple of days to get a crit done). Having won a quarter doesn't guarantee I have some magical insight into things - I'm not Joni or KDW - but I might be able to lend something extra.
Also, if you take the offer up, indicate what you want looked at and/or how brutal a response you want. I'd add a few more caveats but I'll restrain myself...
...anyway, fwiw... just throwing this out there.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Ben, thanks for the offer. I, for one, might take you up on that. But it's going to be awhile before my story is ready for that one last look.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Boy did I pick the wrong quarter not to throw in my hat.
Ben, has it really been a year already? Damn, but time is flying.
We need a winner this year so we can have someone in the anthology three years in a row.
Axe
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Hi Ben,
Thanks for the great offer. I may take you up on that. It might be a week or two before I have the (near) final version ready to go. This is very kind of you.
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
I finished the last of my group 2 crits last night. I have received 2 stories to crit from Group 1 (Louis and Jennifer) and will start those this week. I will have my revised story out to group 1 hopefully in the next few days.
Thanks for the offer Ben, I will certainly take you up as well. I will send it over when I send it to group 1 this week.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Got your crit BW, thanks!
I wasn't planning on starting my second draft until I had received all the group 2 crits, but I haven't heard anything (crit or story-wise)from Eyegore or Owasm yet. Are they around?
BenM, I'd also love to take up your offer if I can get something together in time. We'll see.
LD and Jeniffer, I received your stories and should have crits to you this week.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
I should have my next draft out to group 1 sometimes this week, after which I will start with LD and Jennifer's crits.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
It's been awfully quiet. To quote Pink Floyd, "Is anybody out there?"
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Yep. Right here. I'm doing some rewriting for Q2 and getting a little antsy for results on Q1.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I'm here too.
Need to start on the final revision of my story for Q2-I think I got all the crits- and crit a story which I am probably way late on. I will be doing that one tonight. Nice story and I may not be able to help much with it anyway.
And waiting for Q1. When I think about which isn't often I think about that the last two stories were rejected in almost record time and how with two others I was sent the rejections after most of the HMs were listed on the blog...back when Joni was doing that on a mostly regular bases.
Make that two stories but I just received one of them a day or two ago.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited February 18, 2011).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
So it nearing the two week mark since I sent the second draft of my story out to Group 1 and I've only gotten two crits back. Is the rest of that group active? If not, I think I've rooted out the most significant things I need to fix, but I wouldn't mind knowing if someone is mid-crit and I should wait for their response. I would like to start on my rewrite sometime this week.
So if you're partway through a crit for me, let me know. If not, don't worry about it. I know we're all busy and I know it's a long story. None of this is a complaint. I'd just like to know where I stand.
And thanks to everyone who's given me feedback. As always, it's been very helpful.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I believe I have received all the crits due and now need to revise my story one more time.
And I think I sent out all of mine except for one. Which should go out tonight or tomorrow.
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
I just emailed my revision to Group 1 (and Ben). I have still only received Group 1 stories from Louis and Jennifer, so if anyone else sent one, please resend. I hope to get caught up this week....so long as my wife decides not to go into labor early!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hey do you have a portable device? If so take it with our stories you may have a few hours at the hospital waiting.
Or use the time to write..talk about inspiration.
Unless you're in the labor room of course, like I was. As I recall my wife didn't take all that long esp. compared to some cases I have heard about.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited February 20, 2011).]
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
Haha! I will run that past the boss and see what she says!
She is not due for another 3 weeks, but she has been saying all along that she was going to go early. As uncomfortable as she is, I hope she is right!
This does raise a question though. For those of you with kids, did you have a difficult time finding spare time to write? This is our first and don't get me wrong, my priorities are in order, but in general how did you guys make such a huge transition work?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I didn't start seriously writing until my youngest was 13 months old. It's never easy to find a balance. Mostly I write when they're in school or asleep.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I only get time to write after all the kids are in bed and my wife has found something to do that doesn't involve me in any direct way. Otherwise, it's pretty freaking impossible to focus enough to accomplish anything of value. You'll figure it out. It's what writers do. Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Congratulations on the impending addition to your family bw!
My own daughter is almost 18 months, and I only started writing while on maternity leave with her, so writing-with-child is the only way I know.
My experience is probably a bit different than many parents. My baby was a slow and frequent nurser her whole first year, so I spent many hours cradling her in one arm and typing or holding a book with the other, simply because I was stuck in one spot and had little else to do (no cable). Now writing is done mainly affter she's in bed, but sometimes while she's playing because she's a very independant kid.
As the father you may be the one dashing around when your partner feels stuck or exhausted, etc, so in some ways it could be a lot harder for you to fit in writing time than a new mother.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hmmm I decided I'm going to take a chance on my Q2 story. Since it was one of two fantasy stories John Jacob Adams, now of Fantasy Magazine, hasn't seen I thought I would send in my Gudknight story to him Sunday evening. Fantasy M. is going to stop accepting submissions for a while next month. Since he hasn't seen any of my stories for a long while I thought I would send it to him now instead of waiting until WotF is finished with it. I already sent in the other one he hadn't seen. Of course it's not much of a chance so I'll probably get it back in plenty of time to send it in to WotF before the end of March.
Now all I need to do is revise it one more time, using all the nice crits I received. Two more coming in but I can add in any new points this weekend.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Second scene finished, third starting with a great opener, and four and five are essentially all plotted out. Slow progress but it's there. Coming up on goal time. Anyone going to be able to get their story out by month-end? Keep banging away, everyone!
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
There is a good chance I will have mine out by month end or the first week of March.
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
Tomorrow, I can read what's in my inbox--what looks like Osiris' and Brian's stories (assuming you both still want me to). Genevive, I read your story a while back but now can't decipher all of my notations. I'll send you the few sensible comments tonight in case they might help.
As for my story, I'm stuck. Group 1 provided some good advice that I don't know how to follow while remaining true to the core elements. With my Magic Eight Ball, maybe I can find enough guidance and inspiration to finish Draft 2 by Monday.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Just sent my revised story out to group 1 and Ben. I have only received one story so far so if you sent it before, please re-send to me. When is the submission deadline for this quarter? March 31?
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Just emailed you my comments Jennifer, so let me know if they didn't make it. Received your story DW.
Um, how late is too late to send out a second draft for crits?
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
March 31st.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Official deadline for this quarter is March 31st; however, the group for Q03 will be going up March 1st.
We don't have a "too late" date posted to send out stories for critique. Just realize that people in the group need a finite amount of time to complete a critique and that as we approach the "real deadline" they're probably going to be working on their manuscripts just as intently as you are and might not be able to get anything back to you quickly. In other words, the sooner you get it out the better. For you.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
Sent my comments Dark Warrior.
Posted by Ethereon (Member # 9133) on :
I sent my second draft to the other group. I know it's really late, so I understand if you don't have time to take a look.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Just submitted my final draft to WoTF.
Gulp!
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
Ethereon, send me your draft and I will send my hideously late one.
If there's anyone else with a desire to read my story, let me know. It's only 3000 words.
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited March 09, 2011).]
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
I'm guessing the Q1 HM/SHM list will be published April 11
[This message has been edited by Dark Warrior (edited March 11, 2011).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I'm up for a read, Owasm. Send it my way.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Okay whose story is a certain one." ". I've sent three replies-possibly four- from the E-mail that the story came with but they all came back. Awhile back I sent one to them that made it through but it doesn't work now.
I tried to find if it's one of those who dropped out but it would have to have been after they sent the story. And I tried to find the corresponding user name but no success there either.
I could have missed something some place or deleted the wrong E-mail but I checked more than once.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited March 14, 2011).]
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
'dtn'
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Dark Warrior
Assuming that is a response to my note. Thanks.
I read back a few posts and he seems to be still in.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
@LDWriter: Could you delete the title of dtn's story from your post? This is a possible connection between him and his story, which could lead to a DQ. "Technically." Thanks.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Okay, sorry if I've caused some problem. I don't check in here as often as I should. If you've sent me something and it bounced, it shouldn't have. Anyway, here are two addresses that should work. daniel@danieltoddnoyes.com noyedani@gmail.com
That is of course, if I am the one you are looking for.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
dtn, I sent you two E-mails. Maybe three...the first one would be blank.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Got em. Sent you a reply.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
okay dtn I will be sending you my crit in a day or two. Since it's taken me a few days to find out for sure who wrote the story I will have to go over it again....or find my original sent E-mail.
Not that I had much to say as I recall. As I said on the chapter thread either most of you guys have improved significantly or my reading habits are slipping.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Thanks LDWriter2. I really appreciate it.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
How is everyone submitting? Electronic or hard copy? Any concerns with electronic submission?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Last time I did Electronic and had no problems even though I thought I might have. But since the story reached the HM stage, everything must have gone well with the submission. So I will do it that way again.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I submitted electronically. I did the same in the past two quarters. Fourth quarter, no problems. First quarter, I haven't received a result yet.
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
Hardcopy submissions had problems in Q1 because of electronic accounts. For example, I had signed up to see what the e-process looked like, but the system considered that a failed sub attempt at the close of the quarter. So, although Joni had acknowledged receipt of my hardcopy sub, she later thought my story was a disqualification. (It was actually a rejection.) This happened to several people.
It might be more efficient to submit electronically.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Interesting. Sounds like I should just pick one and go with it. Electronic submission will probably be more efficient and easier on me so...
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
And you can wait 'till almost the very last moment.
Which,, unless I get going, I may have to do. Of course I have gone through most of the crits and made corrections already, there are only one to three I still need to go through. And I think none go into a lot of details.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Hmmm. I can't get the electronic submission system to take my submission. I keep getting the error - "We had trouble processing this file. Please rename your file and try uploading it again." I renamed - changed file types - no luck. Any suggestions...?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
The only thing I can think of is: is it the correct format? .rtf or .doc or what ever they wanted. I forget at the moment.
But another idea came to me. Is the title exceptionally long?
Is there a help feature? Or FAQ ?
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
I tried all of the "acceptable file types" and none of them would take. I tried shortening the file name. I tried adding the file type to the file name. I think I tried it all. The funny thing is that it would upload just fine. Then I would press the submit button and would get the error. I'm baffled. Not sure about the FAQ or Help option. I'll poke around. Good thing I didn't wait until the last minute to try submitting - I'd be really frustrated right now if I had. At least I have time to sort it out.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
DTN-Do you have any spaces or characters other than letters in the file name? I know that messes up some web forms for submitting stories online.
M
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Yeah, I tried removing spaces, capital letter, everything. I should probably just call Joni (is that right) and see if anyone else has had that problem. I will try once more with a completely new version of the document before I call/email though. I want to make sure there isn't some formatting problem causing the problem. Do any of you have contact info for her, in case that doesn't work?
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
This is what I have from my HM e-mail:
Joni Labaqui Contest Director 323-466-3310
OR
Contests@authorservicesinc.com
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Okay - I copied and pasted into a new blank document. Then did some reformatting - fonts, headers, paragraph indents, to make sure everything matched up. Then, instead of removing all the document properties through the typical inspection that MS Word provides, I only went in and removed the "author" metadata. Resubmitted, and it finally worked.
Not sure exactly what the problem was but I'm thinking that removing all the document properties using the inspection tool may have messed something up. Oh well. It's done. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Just got confirmation email saying it was received. Whew...(wipes brow with forearm).
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
That's good dtn. Good success to you. With three places, a couple of us could win in the same contest.
Now for me work on mine.
of course with my older word processor I don't know how to remove all the author metedata or if I can but it seemed to work out okay last time.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Mine is in, got the confirmation E-mail.
That is a very simple confirmation E-mail too. But it would seem better if it was marked as from WotF instead of Joni. Someone who is new may not know who she is.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
For one of the rare times I feel like cussing myself and i don't cuss. I sent in the wrong version. I named them differently and still got the wrong one.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
I'm sure that's happened to others before. There must be a way to correct it. What about contacting Joni?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I thought of that, when I couldn't find any way to check on the contest or cancel but it seems like something funny to do.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
I read over on the WotF forum that someone did that in a previous quarter -- I think Joni can help you pull the story and get the right version in (but contact her before the end of the quarter -- it probably gets dicier rules-wise if you contact her after).
Posted by bwthomason (Member # 9321) on :
Locked and loaded...bring on Q3.
Write. Submit. Repeat.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
In by the hair of my chinny chin chin. Thank goodness for e-submissions!
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'm in. Crash and burn.
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
I'll join the ranks of the waiting. Just got mine in. I wasn't part of this group this quarter, but will join in for the fun of the end.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So, I didn't get any closer to finishing the story that I started this quarter. It'll have to pass on to the next.
Coincidentally though, I got an email last week that a short story I'd submitted to another venue didn't get picked up. Thus, I submitted that one to WotF tonight. Don't know how well it'll go over, as it's fairly religious in nature. Oh well. I at least have a story in.
Now, on to the next.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
I'm not going to make it. Really thought I would, but I edited the ending (again) and just don't feel comfortable sending it in without putting it away and looking at it with fresh eyes.
That's two quarters in a row with nothing in. =(
However, I wish good luck to those who are in. I'll be watching eagerly with the rest of you.
Axe
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
I wasn't part of the group but did exchange a couple of scripts. I am predicting, provided he wrote a satisfying end in his rewrite, Brendan will be a finalist this quarter.
Mark it down.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
Sent mine in this morning (Amsterdam time). I'm pleased, as I wasn't certain at all I'd manage to finish a story in time. I didn't edit it as much as I usually like to, but that may be a good thing, eh?
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Good luck on your submissions, guys! I wasn't part of this group (was too late) but I did submit a story. I'm trying not to have any expectations about it though!
And now the fun of waiting begins. Might as well distract myself by working on next quarter's story!
M
Posted by aspirit (Member # 7974) on :
Best of luck to the entrants! My story is hanging out with me until I like it again.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I never received a response to my E-mail so it looks like I'm stuck with the version I sent in.
There's next time.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hey Joni called me already, they must really like it.
Too bad this isn't the first.
Actually more than likely it was to invite me to the awards ceremony. My wife took the call, and I am assuming it was them even though she can't recall for sure which publisher it was. They haven't called back yet.
I was sort of expecting it even though last year they didn't call.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Wow, you must have really knocked their socks off!
mel
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
hmmm, I thought about how WotF has called me a couple of times to invite me to the ceremony even though they haven't every year. I wonder if they push HM-ers to go.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Hmmm. I didn't get a call but I got an invitation via mail. This was the first story I have ever submitted and I doubt they have even read it yet since it's only a few weeks into the quarter. Maybe they are inviting more and more people. Is it possible they have a larger venue? Perhaps they got complaints from people who wanted to go but couldn't so they decided to go bigger... I don't know?
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
I forgot to say that my invitation is for this year's event - about a month from now.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
This is the second time they called me..if that was them, they still haven't called back...sent an E-mail and a snail mail invite. Niiice snail invitation.
Last year, I think I only got the E-mail.
So either they do that for everyone but sometimes people get dropped so they don't get all three invites or WotF does it that way only for certain people like HMers.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Yeah, really nice glossy invitation. Makes me want to take a weekend trip to Hollywood! I didn't get a phone call or an email though. Just the slick. I wonder if they don't have a full house yet so they're pushing out a few last minute invites to people within a certain distance of the event, just to try and fill up the place. ???
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I received an E-mail that stated the certificates are going out soon. The planning for the ceremony has to been taking up her time.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Time to drag up this thread from the bottom of the page.
KDW (the blue eyed wonder) has mentioned on the WOTF SFF net board that she is chugging along on this quarters entries. Too bad some bozo had to attempt a lame bribery offer to get her attention but she ignore it like the professional that she is.
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
quote:Too bad some bozo had to attempt a lame bribery offer to get her attention but she ignore it like the professional that she is.
What? Again? You'd think that that person would learn by now and offer at least half the prize money. It's like he doesn't really want to know her price.
Edit because the tongue didn't work.
[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited June 08, 2011).]
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I was wondering how she was doing.
I'm eager to send out the correct version of that story.
But I can recall that bribe.... Thought for sure she would take it. She could get two large-Venti cups of coffee at Starbucks to help her stay up late and work on those stories.
Of course one story would probably wake her up for either of two reasons. How good it is or how badly written it is.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Hold onto your hats, folks, because the results are starting to go out. Duotrope lists five form rejections received in the last 10 minutes ...
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Surprised, I haven't received mine yet. Unless of course they did respond to my request for changing versions but I never received it. Just like a couple of people from last quarter.
But I know where I'm sending my story next... the right version this time.
Been waiting for this rejection so I could send it out.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Got a rejection at 4:20 Mountain time today. Better luck next time to me and anyone else in my situation... Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
I'm going to be waiting very VERY impatiently... I can be the most patient person in the world, until I find out that things are ABOUT to happen. Then all bets are off.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Same here mrmeadors, I haven't heard anything yet either. Took me forever to get to sleep last night.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Strangely enough, I feel no impatience whatsoever, but it is a little early for me to be chomping at the bit. If I don't hear by the middle of July, then I'll start going quietly nuts. (Besides, I'm pretty sure what I'm getting this time around, so the suspense is minimal.)
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Interesting... Someone at duotrope has claimed a 24 day rejection. That makes it, oh, a late entry?
[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited June 16, 2011).]
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Yes, that's what I thought as well.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
... Or someone who got confused about which quarter they received the reject for.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Sorry to hear it dtn but we do appreciate that you shared news with us. Not knowing what's going on is tortuous. Hearing that some one had news helps the rest of us.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Seven of us placed HM or SHM last quarter. Would love to see that number increase with some finalists thrown in the mix. Have to keep our string of winning Hatrackers alive for this next volume.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Glad, I came back and reread some of the posts. I was going to ask how many received rejections so far but I believe it's only one so far. At first it sounded like two or three.
Wonder how many entered though. There is bound to be some HMs here... at least.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
I submitted via post, so I am not expecting to hear for a little while yet. From what I can tell on Duotrope, only people who have submitted electronically are hearing things thus far.
Posted by dtn (Member # 9174) on :
Mine was an electronic submission.
And, I actually got the rejection letter twice, about a minute or two apart (I'd have to look to know exactly). Does that mean they really really didn't like my story? haha - just kidding.
I hope we get a few winners out of the group... *crosses fingers*
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hmm, they must have gone through the first batch and working on another.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Second batch of rejections might have gone out tonight. A person on the WotF forum reports getting one, and they're starting to show up on Duotrope.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Well, I heard, I can now send the story to the next place.
Haven't gotten my certificate for the last quarter either.
And Joni has a way of making a form letter sound more personal. But in this case it makes it seem like all the extra stuff they put in this quarter was because my story was not good at all.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
Another rejection.
I will be sending this one out.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Oh the HUMANITY!!!
Sorry. I am extremely impatient right now because I have had four stories out in the world since February, and haven't heard from any of them. I just want to be able to move on!!! Why didn't I e-sub it?
Sorry to the folks that got rejected, but hey, now's the chance to get those stories out there . Best of luck!
Melanie
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Got my answer as well. I really was expecting to do better than an uncermonious rejection. Thought I wrote a winner this time.
Shows you what I know.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Sorry that so many got rejections tonight.
As you're all aware (but it never hurts to say it sometimes anyway), KDW's opinion is just one person's opinion. So get it back out on submission elsewhere ASAP.
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Sad to hear that snapper - if it was the one about the dragons, I quite enjoyed reading your story. Where will you look for a home for it?
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'm anxious now. All of the replies on Duotrope are right around the same 'number of days' count as my submission. I'm really hoping NOT to get an e-mail from them right now.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
I am thinking of sending it to [i]Beneath Ceaseless Skies[/i. I am looking at it again and making a few word changes.
I should have known it never stood a chance. I don't ever recall reading a dragon story in the anthology.
Still predicting yours will make teh final 8, Brendan. Good luck to you and everyone else still waiting.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
I'm sorry to hear about the rejections. I wish everyone who received one the best of luck finding a home for their stories. Like Jennifer said, its just one persons opinion. I think WoTF looks for a particular kind of story, too, so it doesn't mean a rejected story is bad.
Ditto on the anxiety, no e-mail for me today either. They've had my story for 110 days now. Average time on Duotrope is 106 days for rejections if it is an e-sub, which mine was. My RSS feed shows the most recent rejection at 86 days. Is that typical for this quarter?
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
I think the Duotrope tea leaves for WOTF are even less readable than for other markets. As far as I can tell, there is no FIFO reading of stories; a batch of rejections may contain stories submitted on the first, middle, and last days of the quarter. Not having gotten a rejection yet may mean you're in consideration for something better, or it may just mean she hasn't read your story yet. No way to know based on your submission date.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hmmm, maybe a couple of us can get into BCS... By the way Snapper you left off the last ] ... even though the comment about KDW being only one editor and another one may like it hasn't been true in my experience.
And even though from pervious comments this may not be true for WotF I would say, snapper, then write a dragon story with the story and writing so good they have to at least take a longer look at it. I believe you might be able to do that.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Well, sent off my story to the next place and I also sent off last quarter's HM to Analog.
A little rushed with that note so I came back to say, While trying to format the story for Analog correctly I accidently noticed that I had left out a word in around the 15th to 17th sentence. That must have been the way I sent it to WotF, anyway I added the right word and slightly changed one sentence.
And I think I sent in the right version of the Gudknight story. I changed a couple of things in the opening. I have no idea if it really is better but at least it flows better to me.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited June 23, 2011).]
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Good luck, Louis!
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
@Snapper: Maybe you were right that you got a straight rejection because your story has dragons. A new WotF press release says:
"Every quarter the thousands of entries in the L. Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future Contest – the world’s largest and oldest science fiction and fantasy contest – are reviewed to see what the current popular subject is. The current trend is elves, dragons and sirens. They have taken over from space flight and time travel, which were the rage for the last few quarters."
Guys, I've been watching several discussions like this the last few weeks and wanting to say something - but not really knowing if what I have to say is what you want to hear, and I don't want to come across as if I think I'm 'all that' or something, because I'm not. Maybe I should blog about it instead, but I wanted to chime in here with some feedback.
KD will never reject your story out of hand because it has dragons in it.
From critical reading of the latest anthology to talking to both the judges and publisher of the anthology at length, the most obvious criterion for winning is that your story is the best one from that quarter that will help sell the anthology. That means: (a) readers love it: The prose is awesome, the story inspiring, the ideas fascinating. (b) industry reviewers of the anthology, such as Locus, give it a thumbs up: The stories are original and showcase what the anthology promises - the best new SF/F.
posulliv's first-place story from the latest anthology is one of my favourites, and in some respects it's YA fantasy that someone might regard as Harry Potter-esque. And yet it's not - it's unique, brilliantly written and touches the heart.
So I'm sure someone will win with a dragon story in the near future. But it will be a fresh dragon story that throws your head in a spin, which makes you happy or sad or angry or wistful, and which makes a reader say Wow, I'm so glad I bought the anthology. And in the area of dragons, where everyone from Cressida Cowell to Anne McCaffrey to JRR Tolkien have had a shot, it's going to have to be something pretty amazing.
[This message has been edited by BenM (edited June 25, 2011).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Thanks Ben. Awesome input!
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
quote:I don't want to come across as if I think I'm 'all that' or something, because I'm not.
Ben, anyone that saw your speech would know that you're a genuine guy. We appreciate your comments here perhaps even more than your blog.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
I agree, Ben, didn't come across as "all that," it was informative and also heartening.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Ben, actually I felt educated by your note. And I felt challenged by what they said. I want to write that different dragon story. Hmmm, maybe one of those dragon openings I did awhile back. But not sure if I will take up the challenge though, still got problems with the prose.
But speaking of that I was at the bookstore and saw on one book where some big name stated that the writer took the werewolf theme and made it her own. I think I can do that also so I may write that werewolf story that I was inspired with a couple of weeks ago... but I can also do that with a dragon idea. Hmm, something different... with a twist.
Maybe something that has been done only a couple of time so it will still be fresh.
How is WotF with light hearted stories?
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
What I have heard KD Wentworth say is that humor doesn't do well because what is funny to one person may not be funny to another (the judges). But a lighthearted story that is just light without trying to intentional be funny per se may be fine.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I remember a first-place story a few years ago about a professor who was showing a colleague the large time machine that had popped into his house ... or did it? That was lighthearted. But serious stories are by far the more common winners.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
quote:So I'm sure someone will win with a dragon story in the near future. But it will be a fresh dragon story that throws your head in a spin, which makes you happy or sad or angry or wistful,
I thought I wrote that dragon story. Oh well. She likely dumped out early. In an interview she did a couple of years back, she said she reads all the way through of about 20% of entries that crosses her desk. I am betting I failed to carry her attention long enough. She has mentioned she is looking for new and fresh ideas before, and dragons may automatically signal been done! on her orginality meter. May explain why you don't see vampires, elves, and little green men in WotF either.
Back to the drawing board!
[This message has been edited by snapper (edited June 27, 2011).]
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I just got my respons from Joni ...
Semi-finalist!
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Way to go, Jennifer!
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I just checked - good thing I looked in the spam filter. I got an HM.
Posted by Wordcaster (Member # 9183) on :
JenniferHicks --
That's fantastic news! Weren't you a silver HM last quarter?
I just got my response from Joni as well -- HM, which was my goal with the piece I submitted. It's the best I've written thus far (and first submittal to WOTF). Hopefully better stories will follow.
Unfortunately, this quarter has been rough for me and unless I pull something out of thin air tonight, my submission will be missing this quarter.
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
Grats Jennifer and Genevive!
Tom
** Still waiting on results myself. Hopefully its not like last quarter when I got the non-rejection, rejection. ;p
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Congratulations, Jennifer, genevive42 and Wordcaster.
I emailed Joni last night about my 3rd quarter entry and problems with their system, so I was hoping for an email this morning. Sure enough, there was one in there from Joni - but not what I expected. HM for 2nd quarter.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
My congrats to Jennifer, genevive42 and Wordcaste also.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Straight reject. <<Sigh>>
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Well, just checked as well, I'm pleased to announce I got my first honorable mention. I did hope for a little more than that, but being it is only my second submission, I don't think I have any right to complain. Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Wow, that's a successful day for our little group. Congrats to Genevive, Wordcaster, Brendan, Osiris! I hope for those of you who haven't heard, it's because Joni hasn't made a certain round of phone calls yet.
Yes, I got Silver HM last quarter. I'm feeling some cracks in that wall I'm beating my head against.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Fantastic news Jennifer. Despite my probably brutal critique I quite liked the story. KD writes up critiques on the semifinalists, right?
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
out of curiosity, as I venture to resubmit my HM story to another market, is it a good idea to mention that it took HM in the cover letter or no?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Ben, I think it was because of your brutal critique that the story did so well. Your comments were spot-on.
Edited to add: Yes, semi-finalists get critiques. If KDW shares any pearls of wisdom that would be helpful to the group, I will pass them on. But my understanding from what Genevive and other semi-finalists have posted is that the critiques can be somewhat nitpicky.
Osiris, I don't ever put in a cover letter that a story got an HM. I wouldn't mention WotF placement unless the story were a finalist.
[This message has been edited by JenniferHicks (edited June 30, 2011).]
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Thanks Jennifer. I opted not to do so. And congrats to you! And Genevive, Brendan, and Wordcaster.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I agree. Unless it's a Finalist, I wouldn't mention it.
I'm with you a little too, Osiris. I expected better results from this story. But, it's only one opinion. I'll be sending mine off right away as well.
Good luck.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Wow, congratz you guys!! Now I'm really going to be antsy...
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
If you send your story in through the mail, if it is good news do you hear of it via the mail or email?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I can't say for sure but when I sent in stories via E-mail sometimes I heard both ways and sometimes they just sent the SASE back, with a rejection. So I heard the No sometimes only one way and sometimes both ways.
Other hatrackers may have more knowledge about it.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I have seriously thought about finishing one of my dragon stories for quarter five. There is one or two that could be at least somewhat different.
Just kidding... about the fifth quarter that is. I know how they work it.
With my writing it may not that much difference anyway so just as well try something stretching.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
Got my second HM (on my second entry). Woo! I've got bigger hopes for my Q3 story...ah, the long wait begins.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
genevive42 - You're Trina Marie Phillips, right? Duotrope is listing you as a WOTF acceptance...
Posted by Wordcaster (Member # 9183) on :
Are there any notes that come with HM as far as critique?
It would be nice to have 1-2 sentences to know what aspect needs to be improved. I am wondering if there is any kind of history of HM's having the possibility of finding a home at a pro market or if the chances are pretty slim.
Congrats to all the other Hatrackers who placed HM or higher.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Since Duotrope doesn't have a 'places' listing for WotF, that's the only way I see to list an HM, or any level of accomplishment. I figure it should be reported that way because it's not just a rejection. I think I once sent a suggestion to Duotrope to change that. Maybe it'll take a few more suggestions - hint, hint.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
I called it a 'rejection' with reservations. I figured it would encourage me to push myself harder in improving my craft. I agree though, they should have 'honorable mention' because lots of contests, not just WoTF, have this category.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
Of course it's open to interpretation, but I'd say anything short of a win is a rejection. Semi-finalist, with KDW's critiques, would be personal rejections, and as a corollary, then, non-winning finalists as well. But everything short of the three winners is a rejection.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I have to agree with Grayson. It is open to interpretation on just what HM means, but I figure unless the story is published, then it's a rejection. (Although, I did feel justified in putting down for a personal rejection this time.)
Posted by Wordcaster (Member # 9183) on :
I agree with Grayson too and statused mine as such.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
OK, I'm a bit worried and confused. KDW posted this to her message board this morning:
"I finished the first reading yesterday. Now, I'm sorting out the Finalists and Semifinalists."
I've asked her to clarify.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Which quarter did she say that for???
Of course she wouldn't have started with Q3 yet. or be that far if she had.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
KDW has responded to my query over Q2 results, and I am crushed.
"I don't think it could be Semifinalists because I haven't sorted them out yet. Maybe it was some Honorable Mentions?"
So there must have been a mistake. At least I had 24 hours of thinking I was a semi-finalist, and it was nice. I'm going to e-mail Joni now.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Jennifer, I'm so sorry to hear that. It is a cruel twist of fate,but you are going to win this contest some day, this is just a speed bump. All you have to to do is keep at it.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
It is too bad... but some HM? is there more than two? Maybe a silver at least?
But they-she seem to be making more of these types of mistakes lately.
Maybe if they start giving out something to those they send the wrong note to. A free anthology maybe.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I'm not aware of any other situations like this. I know Snapper tried to pull one over on us for April Fools (and boy he had me going ...) on something similar. KDW did say on her message board that it's still possible I'm a semi-finalist. I'll just have to sit on pins and needles through the holiday weekend, I think.
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
Sorry to hear about the mistake. I know how happy I'd be to receive a semi-finalist, so I can only imagine how painful getting that taken away would be. Hopefully it turns out even better in the end and you get a finalist instead.
Tom
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
This makes me wonder about the HMs. Having never gotten an HM before, I can't compare to previous ones. But a couple of things are not adding up about the email.
1. It misspelled a word (shiney was spelled shinny) 2. It asked for information that was given on the website. If they knew which email address to send it to, why would they ask for the story title? Or for my name? Or address?
For those that have gotten one before, are such questions usual?
[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited July 01, 2011).]
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
It wasn't just snapper, even though his joke might have been included by my underactive memory-thought processes. But I recall someone saying it happened to someone who is not here.
Maybe it was another contest or a different mistake but I thought something along those lines also happened to some else here. That is not snapper.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
And seemed like they asked for my address when Joni said they were going to send a certificate, which I still haven't gotten.
As long as it isn't SS number or credit cards or passwards.
Hey, send us your password and we can place it right on your desk top.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
In the result notification I shouldn't have gotten, Joni mentioned that she will be sending out the Q1 certificates. So don't despair, Q1 HM winners. Your shiney/shinny certificates are still on the way.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
This is my second HM and both times I've been asked for my preferred mailing address. I don't remember about the story title, but it doesn't seem that out of place to me. I suppose if in the interim you decided to change your byline, you could. Also, the address confirmation could be for people that moved, or just preferring to receive certain types of mail at a different address. I like to receive most packages at work.
I think it's okay Brendan. I hope so. I responded already.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
I imagine all the information we give is in a database that she could look up, but that she e-mails because she wants to know exactly how HMers want the info to look on the certificates. Some might want their pen names on the certificate instead of their real names, or vice versa.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
What would you guys say if I successfully hacked into WotF? ;P
I had nothing to do with the flub ups this time. Last quarter Joni told me she was about ready to jump off a cliff because of all the problems with electronic submissions.
I think my friend steffenwolf had it right. Snailmail only.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I think it was on this thread where someone asked if they should list aHM from WotF. Normally the answer seems to be no but I found a market that wants to know if you got a HM or higher. Two days left as of July 5--two cents a word.
Tom Carpenter is the one putting together that anthology. I would have liked to submit something if I'd had time to write it. But he says it'll be annual, so maybe next year.
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Is that the same Thomas K Carpenter that is part of this circle for 4th quarter?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Yep.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I thought the name looked familiar but it looks different in big letters compared to the small names here.
Surprised he would pay anything.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Congrats Jennifer, Genevive, Wordcaster, Brendan, and Osiris. Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
WHo here has NOT heard anything yet? I wasn't a part of the crit group, I became active on Hatrack a bit too late, but i submitted for Q2 on my own. I haven't heard anything yet...
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
Yes, that Thomas K. Carpenter is me, yes, that's my anthology listing and finally, yes, I am paying.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Well, good for you Thomas.
I have thought about doing an anthology, the absolute most I could pay is five dollars a story and two or three copies though. And only if the stories don't come in all at once. I would do a Urban Fantasy book and maybe one with stories about star freighters. But I would make the world's worse editor.
Speaking of that- kinda of, sort of-- if you haven't already you're about to find out what is wrong with my writing.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I'm curious ... who still hasn't heard anything on their Q2 entry?
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Me...... . I'm really trying to be cool about it but failing. I wasn't in your group, found it just in time to be too late . BUt i entered a story into Q2 anyway. I've been submitting for years, so it's not that i"m agonizing over just the waiting part. It's that almost everyone I know who entered has already heard. LOL.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
This just in from KDW (on the SFF blog):
quote:Yes, everything is sorted and I've sent the results in. Folks should be getting calls or emails at this point. I have to write the critiques for the Semifinalists and then go on to Q3.
So hang in there, Melanie and others...you should hear something within the next few days.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Just heard from Joni (I had emailed her over the weekend), I am not a wiener. Time to work harder on Q4!
Melanie
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
Well, gosh, Melanie, we all knew you weren't a wiener. ;-) Sorry you didn't get better news - I was certain everyone who hadn't yet heard was Silver HM or higher.
It's amazing (=insanely frustrating, I'm sure) that results are coming out so piecemeal...Jennifer, Tom, who else is still waiting to hear?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Sorry to hear that, Melanie. At least you're no longer waiting.
I got an e-mail from Joni a few days ago. The semi-finalist is official. *Big* relief right there.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
Jennifer, how wonderful! Congratulations!
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Oh, good, Jennifer, congratz!!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Woo-hoo! Congrats, Jennifer!
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
COngratulations, Jennifer!
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
I'll add mine, too. Congratulations. Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Way to go, Jennifer!!!
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Thank you, everyone.
I'm hoping we see a finalist out of our group.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
For us HMs, how long does it take to get the certificates? It is my first one so I'm sort of anxious to frame it and put it on my very bare wall of fame. LOL Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I just got my HM certificate for Q01. She said the Q02 would be going out next week, but somehow, I doubt it. I wouldn't think too hard on it for awhile. It'll come when it comes.
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
Grats Jennifer! You deserve that semi!
And I got my results today, an HM, which is what I expected to get. I had allusions to higher placement until about a month ago when I reread my story and realized I had a fatal issue that would knock it out from anything higher than HM. I think I'm actually pleased to get an HM because it means I'm starting to understand what the contest wants after all these entries.
On to Q3 which is the first quarter I've sent in a story specifically written for WOTF. All the others have been stories that I wrote and then later decided to send to WOTF. I have high hopes, to say the least.
Good luck anyone who hasn't heard yet and hopefully we have a quiet finalist within the group.
Tom
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Congratz Tom!
PS--So, enlighten us--what DOES the contest want?
[This message has been edited by mrmeadors (edited July 13, 2011).]
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Congrats, Tom. You were being so quiet I thought maybe you might be a finalist. Good luck in Q3.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
What does the contest want? Truth be told, there is no magic formula and the best way to learn is to read the past anthologies a couple of times and to read the major magazines (Asimovs, Analog, F&SF) to get a feel for what the difference is between WOTF and the other markets.
However, there are key elements that KD looks for and she's mentioned these in a couple of places in the past. It IS possible to violate these and still win, I've seen examples in the anthologies, but I wouldn't try unless you have a good reason. These items are (and by no means is this a correct or complete list, this is just MY opinion):
1) Speculative element on the first page. 2) Show the character, setting and problem pretty quickly. 3) The MC should be the one with the problem and be the central actor for that problem. 4) The MC must be the one to solve the problem. 5) The ending must bring denouement (KD likes up-endings, but beautiful tragic is okay too.) 6) The overall idea must be unique (see the post about avoiding sirens, werewolves, etc.); or another way to say it, it must have that "Aw cool" factor. 7) Near-future or small scale stories don't work. 8) No horror or unnecessary gore
As you can see, none of these are crazy strange rules, but the contest definitely looks at stories differently than the pro mags. Those quiet nuance pieces just aren't going to catch KD's attention most of the time.
The other issue is that you have to pull all these things together, while writing well and get lucky that no one else has written a similar story.
And like I said, these are my opinion only on what works for the contest, and half the items are probably pretty obvious, but you never know. I guess you could say, when the story works, the story works, and no amount of analysis is going to tease out the reason why. Just keep writing and writing and writing, and it'll come.
Yeah, for NickT! Finalist for a second time. He's the only Hatracker there, right?
Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :
Thanks Jennifer. I mostly lurk rather than post here nowadays (a busy job and a one year old will do that to you), but I thought I’d add my opinion to Thomas’ list. In my opinion, Thomas pretty much has it nailed as to what generally seems to the common factors in those stories that make it into the anthology. There are exceptions to that list, but from what I’ve read in the last three anthologies (volume 28 is truly excellent btw), most of the stories hit those conditions. I can’t say what it takes to win (if I knew, I’d be a lot more relaxed about the wait over the next few weeks). I think the following increases your chance of getting a finalist spot. You can probably ignore all of these recommendations and still get through (and, of course, this is all my ill-educated opinion). Oh, and it’s rare I manage to follow all these rules. 1) A 1st or 3rd person past tense with a single, very firmly fixed POV is the lowest risk approach. Using more than 1 POV or omni is possible, but most of the winners have used a very traditional perspective on POV and tense. For my first non-winning finalist, I did use first person present and I regret that now. Multiple POVs works for GRR Martin, but has thousands of pages to work with. 2) Tell the story in a linear fashion, avoiding flashbacks if you can. Sometimes flashbacks are absolutely unavoidable, but most of the time, they kill the momentum of the story. Flashbacks should be small, brief and integrated into the current story environment (i.e. the character remembers the past because of something they’ve seen or done). A lot of stories I’ve read in slush start off with an exciting hook and then backtrack to the less exciting moments that led up to the exciting event. This sometimes works in serial television because we know and love the characters, but I don’t think it works when using unfamiliar characters and situations. Even when it works in movies and books, it has to be done with exceeding skill. 3) Allied to Thomas’ point about the “The MC should be the one with the problem and be the central actor for that problem”, and “The MC must be the one to solve the problem” make sure that the story can only happen through the actions of your MC. If you can remove the MC from the story and the events in that story would still happen, then you may have a passive protagonist. 4) A sympathetic protagonist helps a lot. Give your MC a non-selfish goal that is bigger than themselves and make sure they change over the course of the story. They should be a different person (dragon/elf/siren) by the end of the story, even if it’s some small way. 5) Things should go wrong on a regular basis. 6) Allied to the point above, make sure that the motivation of the character is clear at all times. This also helps makes the stakes of your story clear. If we know what your character wants to do before they act, then it’s clear why events are setbacks.
Nick
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Good lists, Tom and Nick.
I'd add one more thing that Skadder pointed out to me recently. It doesn't hurt to include a strong theme. These books are used in high schools. Give those language arts students a theme to discuss in class.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
The full list of all placements for Q2 is posted to the blog:
You are posted at the top of the semi-finalists, just one slot from the finalists. Your name looks good up there :-)
How many people entered? I'm curious what percentage get awards.
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
Congrats guys. That list is interesting.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Wordcaster,
I forget now where I got this # from, but I believe it's around 1800 - 2000 entries a quarter.
I figure the top spots account for around 100 mentions/winners.
Thus, an Honorable Mention or above and you are in the top 5% or so of entries.
I see David Steffen made another HM. Grats to him too!
Axe
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Thanks, Wordcaster. That's what comes of having a last name that starts with the third letter of the alphabet.
I was a little surprised at the large number of semi-finalists and silver honorable mentions. This must have been a strong quarter.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I don't think I said congrats Jennifer.
But I wonder what type of certificate you get.
And I think this could mean that it's good enough writing for someone else to pick up.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
What does the contest want?
Science Fiction.
Plain and simple. If you write Science Fiction, you have SUCH a better chance of winning. And I agree with the theme thing as well. They like themes. Simplistic plots, vanilla characters, and difficult prose they can look past, if there's new science (ideas) and talked-about themes in it.
Lol. Can you tell I'm reading Volume 27 right now? So frustrated.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Yes, I CAN tell you are reading vol 27... I have seen that your chances are way better if you write science fiction. Most of the last couple volumes at least have been mostly SF. I know they get way more fantasy than sf, and that a lot of people send them the same ol' stuff. But i have also known people who have sent in different fantasy stories, things that are well written and imaginative, yet don't even score an honorable mention. Maybe they were too different in a way? Oh well. Let's work hard! We can do this! Take every quarter as a learning experience.
Melanie
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
I would classify Living Rooms as fantasy and I'm currently reading one with a minotaur as a main character which is definitely fantasy based. So it can be done.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
In the anthologies, my favorite stories are, hands down, the fantasy ones. Nothing against the science-fiction winners; I just like fantasy better. When it comes to my entries, I've split almost evenly between the genres:
Rejections: 2 sf, 1 fantasy HMs: 3 sf, 2 fantasy Silver HM: 1 fantasy Semi: 1 sf Pending: 1 fantasy
All my fantasies that have placed have been urban fantasy or had real-world elements.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
How about the idea of action? My memory is terrible, but I don't remember high action stories winning very often.
My two HMs had a fair amount of running/shooting/war in them. Not to say I didn't win because of that, I mean, I did get the HM, but I wonder if shoot-em-ups innately have a lower chance?
Can I ask an expert? (Someone more versed in the volumes than I.)
Axe
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
I don't think you have a better chance of winning if you write sci-fi versus fantasy. I just think it's harder to pull off original fantasy than it is sci-fi. I've heard KD remark that too many fantasy entries are built around the same tropes. That's why you don't see as many (and why there are less fantasy magazines.)
"Living Rooms" won because it was original and a very touching story. My favorite story from the contest "After the Sunset, Again" (I'm probably remembering that title wrong) is about the mythology of the phoenix, but it's a very personal story. I loved it and still love it. Fantasy can be done if it's done right. My Q3 entry is a fantasy story, my first non-sf in the three years I've been entering the contest, and I have very high hopes for it. I don't at all feel disadvantaged for sending a fantasy story, if I think it's the right one. Send your best story, plain and simple, don't over think it.
As for action? Action is okay if your story *needs* the action. Don't just put it in to create movement in your story. Plenty of stories in the anthology have had action, but the action is there for a valid reason.
Tom
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Thank you, Tom, for all of your insights (and your taking the time to give them)!
Melanie
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I'm far from an expert on the matter, though I have read all of the volumes from 18 on up and am currently working on getting through the newest anthology (27). My vague impression is that there are more sci-fi stories in that mix, but I should probably go back through the books and look at the stats before tooting my horn about anything. Unfortunately, that'd mean digging through my brother's basement for them... It's probably just my disgruntled side spouting off, as I write predominantly fantasy. I have heard from KD Wentworth though that the other judges have put pressure on her to deliver more hard SF stories, and the majority of the judges (from what I remember) are SF authors or lean mostly in that direction.
And try not to mind me too much right now. I always get cranky when I'm reading a WotF anthology and trying to figure out what exactly made all of the stories in it win. Mostly I get that way because I have absolutely no idea why they were picked and that fact drives me bonkers.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
I understand, Dan.... At times I get the same way. The important thing is to take things as learning experiences and try to move on. Also, I have accepted that maybe WOTF isn't the right venue for my stories--I will continue to submit to them and then after submit the stories elsewhere. Hopefully some day I will either pro out or win!
Melanie
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
Interesting Tom, I'm trying to wade through living rooms right now and finding it tough sledding, but then I'm an SF guy.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
I've read stories in the WOTF anthologies, and in major SFF magazines, that I thought were terrible, and I wondered how they ever made it where they are. These are few and far between, but they're there. I think the lesson with WOTF is that taste is, indeed, subjective. Clearly the stories I thought were subpar managed to win over five experienced SFF writers (and readers), which (to me) means they aren't objectively terrible, whatever my opinion may be.
(The lesson with the major mags may be slightly different, involving name recognition; I do sometimes think, "had I written that story, it would never have made it out of the slush pile.")
Posted by WakefieldMahon (Member # 9555) on :
I submitted 03 April. So I suppose that means I didn't make the finalist. Do they usually send a response?
Edit: Never mind I can read, honestly I can. I am in Q3
[This message has been edited by WakefieldMahon (edited July 21, 2011).]
Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :
Hi everyone,
I suspect the other two winners for this quarter are hard SF (purely based on their employment backgrounds), but my 2nd place for this quarter was a fantasy. Statistically, there are more SF winners than fantasy, but in the end you can only write what you want to write. I tried writing SF for the contest and the results weren’t great. Your best story will have the best chance and your best story will come from writing the genre you enjoy writing. Beyond that, you're relying on the taste of the judges and taste is subjective.
Thanks, it's greatly appreciated. Good luck to everyone in Q3 and get cracking on Q4.
Nick
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Well done, Nick. Congratulations.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I got my critique from KDW. I said I would pass on any information that might be helpful to others, so here it is. She liked the relationship bewteen my two main characters and said the pacing was good. However, my story did not advance to finalist because the resolution relied on a coincidence that helped the protagonist.
"The rule on using coincidence in your fiction is that, if it hurts your protagonist, you can use it very sparingly, preferably no more than once in any plotline, whether it's a short story or novel. If the coincidence helps your protagonist, though, you shouldn't use it at all."
So, that's something to keep in mind on your future entries.
but I'll be cheering from the sidelines.
