If I have missed anyone that participated in the group and got some kind of award for this quarter, just let me know and I'll add you to the list
These are our Woo-hoos!
(Posts below represent original posts from the quarter)
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited October 18, 2010).]
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I'm up for another quarter.
So it's now:
WriterDan Owasm
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I'm in, too. (Although I have to get last quarter's story in the mail first.)
WriterDan Owasm JenniferHicks
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I have a back up story all ready. Casting about for another, though. I sort of plan to spend Dec writing the first draft of that Christmas on Mars story. Whatever happens it's going to be one of Mars Born stories.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
OOh, looking forward to doing a quarter at same pace and not two drafts behind the group. I'm in.
WriterDan Owasm JenniferHicks Arriki Dark Warrior
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
I'm in. Though, I have to admit I started writing before Dec 1st
Also, your entry dates say this is for 3rd quarter, and the thread heading says second quarter...
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm in. I think (hope) I can work to those dates, haven't been game to have anything published yet, and am intrigued by the process. *laughs nervously*
WriterDan Owasm JenniferHicks Arriki Dark Warrior Teraen BenM
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I'm game.
WriterDan Owasm JenniferHicks Arriki Dark Warrior Teraen BenM Kitti
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Along with dates, should we post a recommended amount of reviews? With multiple drafts, is it reasonable to ask each person to review every manuscript? Do we implement a minimum of at least two reviews per person to make sure everyone is getting a few reviews?
Not sure how this works, that's all... And a little worried I may have too many manuscripts to give decent feedbacks on...
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Teraen: Fixed! Freaking copy and paste errors... Thanks for the heads up. I changed it this time to hopefully avoid this mistake in the future. still, apparently that line has read "Q03" for about the last year. rofl! Just went and fixed those too. I'm such a freak.
Now get writing everyone!
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited December 02, 2009).]
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Of those who are entering, I am curious: who has entered before? How did you do? In a writing group, its common to discuss each writers' history and ambitions. Online, I suppose it could work the same way. Regardless, I'd be curious about the people I'll be working with here.
As for me, this will be my first complete short story (save for the random flash fiction...) that I've ever written. I like the idea of submitting to WOTF as a first time author, as it makes me stretch myself more than I think I otherwise would. As far as other works, I've only submitted one novel before, which was rejected by a handful of agents, editors, and one contest. (I tabled it to work on something I am more passionate about until I learn enough to go back and work on it. It was rather amateurish...)
In other words, I am new at this. Everyone else?
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Q02 will be my second submission, however I am still working on my submission for Q01. I came into the group about a month later than the rest.
I have several other short stories out to writers contests and recently recieved my first rejection letter from a pro publisher.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I've entered WotF about a dozen times so far, with 4 or 5 of those coming back as HMs. I've never sent my stuff anywhere else, but will start doing so as soon as I place in the WotF contest.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I've entered three times. I'm 2 for 2 in getting HM's. I haven't gotten word back for the last one.
As far as I can tell, WotF is a market that's a bit different than others. Story arc and characters are important. Dark stories are at a bit of a disadvantage.
For that reason, Writer Dan, I wouldn't wait to place in WotF before you send your work out to other markets. You have to find markets that fit your work and those will be different than WotF.
Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
And HM IS a placing, it used to be called "quarter-finalist" (but that was confusing as there are Finalists for each Quarter).
Seriously, send your stories out. I haven't done better than HM at WOTF and I have sold more than 30 stories. It is not and should not be the only yardstick you use for your progress as a writer.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
I think I know where WriterDan may be coming from (correct me if I am wrong here...) But since an author is disqualified from WOTF if they are otherwise professionally published, and since a placing at WOTF is such a resume enhancer, he may be willing to put off professional publication until he gets the WOTF placing he seeks.
I can definitely see myself falling into this trap... if it is a trap at all. I enjoy writing, but short stories are my means to getting a novel published. I hope to improve my craft and simultaneously pad my resume with enough success to get an agent or editor's attention. Since WOTF helps with both of those (good reputation and skill needed) I would happy with continual submissions only to them. For me, I think the breaking point would be when my novel was completed and ready for submission. If I still haven't placed in WOTF, I'd go ahead and start submitting the same short stories to other markets in hopes I could get published then. But, since my novel isn't writted yet, I am happy to take as long as I need for the WOTF contest placement.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
If one is worried about WotF disqualification, then don't submit to a pro market after you've made two pro sales. That way you can write more than one story a quarter and get some minor creds.
As for me, at this point, I'm happy to have anybody print my stuff.
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
I'm in for this quarter
WriterDan Owasm JenniferHicks Arriki Dark Warrior Teraen BenM Kitti Satate
I've entered once before and got an HM, never been published.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So, I'm popular now. 8)
The reason that I'm only submitting my stuff to Writers of the Future is two-fold, and is one that I really hit hard on. There are loads of authors that fall into one of two categories: great stories that take forever to write, and mediocre stories that get whipped out like nothing flat. I don't want to fall into either category. I want to train myself to write stories quickly and have the quality be up there at the same time. Thus, I feel like I need obvious deadlines to meet. WotF satisfies that requirement quite well. In fact, it's one of the only regular contests that I know of that will help out a new author's writing career as well. I want to write good stories. In fact, I want them to be amazing. But I want to learn how to do all that in a relatively quick manner. So, submitting to other magazines, while beneficial, doesn't really help me in the "regular and quick" regime. I figure, once I can place in WotF, I'll be at a point where I can start submitting to magazines and really do so on a regular basis. Two last points: 1) self-imposed deadlines haven't worked really well for me in the past, and 2) I've always been told to start from the top when it comes to submitting for publication. Thus, this is what I've chosen to do for now. And I think it's working out fairly well so far.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I've entered five times now (including the entry I put in the mail Monday). Out of those: Rejections: 1 HMs: 2 TBAs: 2
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Interesting responses, all. I'm going to ask another thing now... How far are you along in your writing for this period submission? And what is your story about? (the one line pitch) I'm up to about 8k words, which I assume is about 2/3 of the way through. I've got my plotting done, I know what scenes are going to take place, and I am working on the best way of executing it. I plan to finish a first draft in about 2 weeks. I ask, because I am a student and during the winter break I would love to review stories and provide feedback, but it can be tough when classes start. I'm still getting through one from the last group that I haven't been able to pay full attention to due to finals...
My story is about how a man's life is changed when he makes the greatest scientific discovery in history.
[This message has been edited by Teraen (edited December 10, 2009).]
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I've entered a bunch of times. Before I got involved with Hatrack, all I got was a string of flat-out rejections. Since then I've been HMing.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I was discussing WotF with a colleague today and in doing so I think I distilled part of my reason for wanting to enter.
What I hope to get out of the experience is simply an idea of where my writing is at. If I submit to a publisher and just get the binary accept/reject (most likely form rejection) result, I'm not sure that would tell me enough. What I'm hoping for, with WotF, is to get an idea of where my writing stands in the results scale. Can I write something good enough to get an HM?
I tend to cower in a corner and be afraid of stepping up most of the time, and so I guess I'm just hoping to find this a painless way to dip my toe into the real publishing world; a confidence building exercise, if you will.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
I have two beginnings started. I think I will work on them both a bit and see which one develops into something more suited for WOTF and which I will work on for a pro submission somewhere else. I already have an idea which will probably be which but that is subject to change as the stories develop.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
DW: Why not write both and submit them to subsequent quarters?
Posted by dougsguitar on :
So I would love to join this group. Here is the rub; I think I need more practice before jumping in to this. I feel like I would bog the process down too much. So here is the newbie question, trusting you to be honest about the responses; should a real rookie be trying this yet or should I learn more about the actual technicalities of good writing and catch the next go'round? I plan to be here for a very long time so waiting is not a bad option for me. After reading the work you guys are producing I am seeing a gap between 'greatness' and what I am able to throw down with. You have already helped me identify a tremendous shortfall in my base writing skill. I know this is how you learn, but I would feel like the sqweeeeeky wheel trying to hang with you at this point. I can tell that all of you take this very seriously, one of the most attractive aspects of this group as a whole. I know I am not a 'first-string' player yet... but I certainly plan on becoming one. Sincerely, Deauxglas
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Dougsquitar...they let me join and i doubt your first shot could be any worse than mine. I think one reader said they actually vomited reading my first draft.
But, even if I get a rejection letter on my first entry I could not begin to tell you how much I learned about my voice, POV, style, and many other things this quarter.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Teraen, I thought about that. But I actually have a third one I want to work on for Q03. I am sure in the next three months many things will change, so who knows? Then if/when the pro one gets rejected I can still edit for another WOTF quarter down the road.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Doug - you can always join the group, write to the deadlines and then decide not to share or submit your story if you can't get it into shape in time. Many of us push (or shatter) our self-imposed deadlines.
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
Doug I highly reccomend that you join. I was very nervous about joining my first time too and I wasn't sure if I was anywhere close to the level I should be. I did it anyways and getting all the feedback and working on the critiquing was wonderful and even helped my writing go up a notch. You lose nothing if you enter the competition and there's a lot to gain if you do.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Consider this, Doug.
If you are worried that your first submission will create a bad impression, just think how thrilled KD Wentworth will be when your second submission is an improvement. And as she watches your submissions improve, she will begin cheering for you.
Editors actually do find it exciting to see writers get closer and closer to the goal of publication.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Doug, what's the worst that will happen? You may not be up to par, but you'll improve no matter what...
Posted by dougsguitar on :
quote:If you are worried that your first submission will create a bad impression, just think how thrilled KD Wentworth will be when your second submission is an improvement. And as she watches your submissions improve, she will begin cheering for you.
The WotF contest is anonymous. KDW has no idea who wrote what unless you finish semi-finalist or higher. So you can write the crappiest submission she ever read one quarter than win it the next and she would never know.
Last quarters 2nd place winner sent two rejections before cracking into stardom.
So submit, bad or good. Only way to know is try
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Ah, that's right, snapper. The submissions are anonymous.
I was thinking of regular editors, who I know do appreciate writers who improve with each submission.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Being less familiar with the structure of WotF, I was wondering if there is a thread already setup which explains what I'm supposed to do with this? I am 'bout 600 words into the story, with another 600 on the way today. Not sure about the story word count target/particulars, etc. Thanks!
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
@doug - I am reposting a link to a Hatrackers blog. I cant find the thread where he originally posted it. If you scroll down he talks about winning WOTF.
Quick check in: I'm about halfway done with my story, and see that I am only at 3000 words. Is there an average length? I wonder, since the cutoff is 17K, I don't want to come in too short.
How's is everyone else's coming along?
Oh. And I went off on an idea I had last week, so this isn't the story I had started originally... I started a second one. I may have two by the time drafts come along...
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
quote:Quick check in: I'm about halfway done with my story, and see that I am only at 3000 words. Is there an average length? I wonder, since the cutoff is 17K, I don't want to come in too short.
I was wondering the same thing, since I did crits for two stories that were 2-3k words last quarter. I only have 3 anthologies but it didnt seem like any of the stories in there were that short.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
I don't really care about the average. I just wonder if it will be less likely to win based on the inherent limitations of shorter stories: Shorter stories= less detail, harder to tell good stories...
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
In the past, if there was still room in the yearly anthology after all the winners got spots, the editor would select from the finalists for the year.
If the winners were heavy on fantasy, then the science fiction finalists would be more likely to be included, and vice versa. But there was also the constraint of space, so shorter finalist stories might be more likely to be included because that would mean more stories in the anthology.
And if your story is included in the yearly anthology, there is additional pay beyond any prize money.
So I wouldn't worry about a story being short if it's long enough to tell the story. If it wins, that's way cool, but if it's a finalist, it may have a better chance of being selected for the anthology than a longer story, and that's also cool.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Made it to about 3000 words. I am questioning/second guessing myself on the way the story is unfolding and plan to discuss this on a topic thread this week. I could also use some input on handling radical tech stuff and character intellect which is way higher than my own. I am having a blast with this!
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Well, let me elaborate. I didn't mean that submitting a short story was bad, per se. But the inherent limitations of a shorter story lend themselves to less ability to develop plot, characterization, etc. After all, which form usually can have better stories? Flash fiction or short stories? I would contend short stories would (though I am sure there are some good flash gems out there...)
I am just worried I may be shortchanging my *winning* chances by submitting a work shorter than the average (based on what I've read in the anthologies). This translates to a story which may have less than average plot/charactization/etc... Which translates to less than average rating...
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
If the manuscript is too short to get the story across, then it needs to be longer.
If the manuscript is full of padding (stuff just to make it longer) and can be told in fewer words, then it needs to be shorter.
Since Stephen King (among others) recommends cutting 10% of a story, once all the other editing has been done, it seems to me that the implication is the stories that can be told as shortly as possible are more likely to be considered the best stories.
(I wish there were a "shrug" smilie.)
Edited to add: OSC has said more than once (I'm paraphrasing, by the way) that anything that can be removed from a story and the story still work should be removed. The only things that should be included in a story are the things that are absolutely necessary in order to tell the story.
So perhaps those in doubt should first write, write, write, and then cut, cut, cut. And whatever length results in a good story is the right length, regardless of averages. (After all, averages are only statistics, and I believe it was Mark Twain who said that there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics.)
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 29, 2009).]
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Kathleen -- I laugh. Cutting 29,000+ down to 16,990, I know more about the truth of THAT than a lot of the people here.
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited December 29, 2009).]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I hope it isn't one of those "if I don't laugh, I'm going to cry" laughs, arriki. I also hope the effort is worth it.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
29+K to just under the legal limit of 17 was a heartbreaker. I learned a lot about writing leaner.
Was it worth it? Cutting out one of every three words? It was an education. It would be nice if it did better than my other stories. But it's soooo long. Yet it's also too short. So much of the alienness had to be excised.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Status check: first draft is all done. I'm now reviewing it and will be seeking reviewers soon.
If you haven't finished your story, you better be on your way! If I can do it, so can you! In fact, if I can do it, you should be able to do three or four! Its really not that hard!
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
Still not done the first draft, but I should be by our self-imposed deadline. Send me your story as soon as it's finished.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Are you guys actually talking about the story that's deadline is March 2010?
Finishing yours? Now?
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I feel like such a slacker :-)
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
"Are you guys actually talking about the story that's deadline is March 2010? Finishing yours? Now?"
Some points: I've been working like crazy on it during the winter break. I had it started and plotted before this announcement was ever made, so I was ahead. Its a short short story, nowhere near the 17K word limit.
And it isn't very good. I still need to editify.
So don't feel like a slacker... unless it is your subconscious confirming that you have, indeed, been slacking...
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Actually I felt rushed with my entire WOTF entry last quarter since I joined the group half-way through.
Considering that our early first draft deadline is only in two weeks and I am halfway through my writing I feel more on pace than last quarter.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Yep... I'm riding at just under 6K words but I have a crystal clear path to the end of the story. I have no idea if it is worth a hoot'n hollar... I've never been critiqued... even once... I guess it doesn't really matter yet, I'm counting on you guys to help center me in the road. I enjoy reading the thing, which at this point is what matters; yes, no, maybe? Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Having written about six pages, I'm now trying to hammer out an outline (new technique for me) to skip at least a few dozen bad versions of the story.
I think I have part of the log line premise and a lot of background on my main character. I even know in a muddy sort of way what the story is going to be about. I'll have to see how much this speeds the actual writing.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm currently reverse engineering an outline / plot points from my story so I can work out how to balance it in my first edit. Sadly, more complicated than I'd envisaged, but once the momentum picks up I expect it's going to be fun.
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
Yes, first draft is finished, though mine is very short at only 2K. And it's very bad, since it's a first draft. I'm sure there are a lot of plot problems to iron out as well as the inevitable grammar/spelling ones.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I have...mmm...almost two pages done.
Though I do know exactly where it is going to go and how I'm going to get there. So, there is that.
Though first, I have to bash out a one-scene story that jumped into my head last week. It's in a vaguely urban fantasy world and takes place in a diner.
I'm really excited for both of them.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited January 04, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'm 2500 words into my story and I just started on Dec. 30th. It's a little borderline whether it'll be complete by the 15th but if it flows I might make it. In looking at what I have left I think I'm going to be pushing the 17,000 word limit.
If I can get it done in time I'd love to jump in on this round of critiques. Even if I can't get mine done I'll volunteer to do crits for the group.
Got my rejection in the mail today for quarter 4. That doesn’t bother me so much (me and rejections are getting to be good friends), but it got me thinking about my WotF track record:
First entry: no critique, HM Second: no critique, HM Third: critique, rejection Fourth: critique, rejection
It seems that when I get a lot of critiques saying my story needs this or that, or my wording here doesn’t work, I end up thinking every suggestion is a good one, throwing it all in, and in the process killing my own voice in the story. So I’m going to withdraw from the group this quarter and see whether I get a better result.
That being said, if a couple of people here would like to trade stories, I’d be happy to do that. It seems two or three opinions on any given story is the ideal amount for me. E-mail me privately if you’re interested. Thanks, and good luck everyone!
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Sorry about the rejection JH. Glad to see you arent letting it get you down, and are going to submit again this quarter. Did you get your Q01 out too?
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I think the hardest things about critiques is learning which parts to ignore. I'll often just file them for a few days after the first read and come back to work out which points are salient to the story I want to tell.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I think that's a great way to approach feedback, BenM.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I agree with Ben. You can get overcome with suggestions. However I like to see a number of critiques because if everybody has the same issue, it might be something you've missed.
My Q4 rejection came my way this week. My first two stories were HMs and then my last was rejected. I thought that one was the best stories I've written. I'm afraid my Q1 won't make it either. It was less than 3,000 words.
WotF Vol. 23 made it into my hands today and I found 9 of 13 stories were first person. All of them were longish (most over 8K words). My last two submissions were short, so this one will be longer with a solid story arc. My first two had good arcs.
Sorry about the rejects, Jennifer and Ken. Food for thought; Adam Colston's first two entires were rejections. # 3 he won 2nd place for the 3rd quarter.
[This message has been edited by snapper (edited January 05, 2010).]
Whoops, wrong WotF volume. Enjoy the review anyway
[This message has been edited by snapper (edited January 05, 2010).]
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
It is hard to sort out which suggestions to use, and I'm just not very good at it. Until I develop more confidence in my own skill as a writer, it would probably benefit me to limit the number of suggestions. It's certainly nothing against this group or anyone in it. This is the classic "It's not you, it's me."
In addition to the rejection by mail today, I also received the e-mail confirmation that my quarter one story has been received. So, onward with the next try ...
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
My recommendation in listening to multiple critiques:
1) If more than one person hits on the same thing it's probably a real issue that needs looking at.
2a) Each individual comment I evaluate on an individual basis. Then if I agree with it I change it. I guess this is where trusting yourself comes in. But the question to ask is, 'which way works better for the story?' If you trust and believe in your story I think this isn't so hard to answer.
2b) Consider the source of the criticism. If you know the person well enough you might know that they're sensitive to one thing or another. Be aware when their statement might be more subjective than objective even if they don't state it. If you don't know the critiquer see 2a.
3) I try to read between the lines of the comments as a whole. This will hopefully tell me if I'm missing something in the bigger picture.
I have to admit that I developed this criteria as an art major where group discussion and evaluation of your work is constant. My first devastating critique came in a beginning drawing class where the instructor started out saying how much she liked my drawing. She then proceeded to tear it apart on a technical level. And she was right on both counts. But I didn't learn that until sometime later. I walked out of that class thinking my drawing was a failure. I had completely erased from my mind the good things she had to say. Live and learn.
So these are my thoughts. Hope they help.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
One of the ways you can tell if you should listen to a bit of feedback is if it gets you excited about your story. The best feedback can provide insights into what you are trying to accomplish and help you to see more clearly how to accomplish it.
Feedback that makes you feel dull or stupid or blank may be very good feedback, but it is not going to help you with your story if it makes you feel that way.
So look for things that make you anxious to get back to work on the story. Anything else that is in between may or may not be useful, but you can consider that stuff after you've implemented the exciting feedback.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Kathleen and Genevieve, thank you for the good advice. I'll keep it in mind for future critique situations.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Just finished my final first edit!
It's now complete at 6850 words! My first finished short story ever! Hoo-rah!
Anyone ready for crits?
[Note: This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'll do crits. Send it on.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I'll look at the full story. Already been to the 13 line and commented.
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
Sure, send it to me.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Sent, sent, and sent.
To everyone else, keep writing! Its so easy to finish... just a few words a day, and soon you are done. Only one week left before our self-imposed deadline!
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I forgot to mention in my critique, Teraen, your writing is pretty good.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I have to admit, as I go through attempting to edit mine into shape, that I'm beginning to have serious doubts. Sigh. I will still make it available for critique in the next few days though, even if it's just to learn for next time.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Grr...so I am cruising along about half-way through my story and realized my proposed ending is probably too dark for WOTF and hit a brick wall. I cannot think of a different ending for that entry so I am brain storming other ideas to completely start over.
WD...I have to laugh with you, not at you. I read through a couple years of the SFF thread last night and saw numerous entries about you swearing you would get your entries in earlier...then I look at Q01 and you mailing it in the last day I will be available for the normal scheduled crits on Jan 15th if that will help you keep your early promise this time.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
I managed to get a good session in this morning, about 1200 words. I got through the main event and was pleased with what I ended up with. A bit more to tie things off and I'll be done. Right now the WC is at 9644. I am very excited about going through this process.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
So WriterDan talked me into joining the group. I've submitted one entry to WotF, which was rejected this past week. It was something old that I was written about four years ago, and I wasn't real surprised when it got toasted (especially after Dan looked at it and pointed out its many flaws). Anyway, I have the first third of a short story written and the rest of it outlined. I'm hoping I will have a--rough--draft of it done by the 15th. I'm excited to work with you all.
I just this hour decided to drop the story I was originally planning on using for wotf and use another. Funny how I have all this time to prepare but there's still always this flurry of action at the last moment. Reminds me of college.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I've finished a rough draft, but have two stories I'm considering. One is finished. I'd only like a couple of readers to see if this is on the right track. Any takers?
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I'll take a look if you would like
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'll read. Send it on.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Doug takes a deep refreshing breath and types THE END... then leans back in the chair to stretch aching back muscles and revel in the joy of completing 11,031 words. The chair decides that Doug doesn't need to feel too cool and self-fulfilled about the event and picks the specific blissful moment to give up the chair-ghost, breaking at the very point of no return and dumping the fledgling wordsmithy in a heap on the floor... Doug shakes it off and hits 'control S', then wonders who the heck drank all his coffee.
I would be more than happy to accept and read any other WotF stories at this time... I am a rookie crit'r but will put all of my heart and soul into it... as soon as I get this coffee situation worked out.
[This message has been edited by dougsguitar (edited January 11, 2010).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
DW: Yeah, I'm forever trying to get my stories in earlier. It's horrible. At least I haven't given up yet, eh? On the up side, my story this quarter is coming out at an average of 1000 words/hr, instead of the average 800. (Anyone else track their writing? If not, I have an excel file that I've put together that helps me get motivated every time I look at it.) I'm hoping to catch up with my goals this quarter. Things look promising. Unfortunately, my 3rd quarter story is stuck in the mud and I can't figure out where to go with it. All I know is that I want to use this particular idea and run with it. Thus, I may just end up falling behind again next time around. Ah well. Onward!
Cynic: Glad to see you made it! Looking forward to this quarter as well, and hopefully, many more! (Unless, of course, we stun the judges this next quarter with our literary prowess and they have no option but to give us our deserved honors. )
This weekend didn't much work for my story progress. Planning on banging out some good stuff this next week though as our first deadline is fast approaching. I...will...push...through! Get it out! First draft is the toughest!
I have my first draft finished. It's a weird one. Why do I keep writing such weird stories?
Anyone want to exchange their well crafted sure to be Honorable mention story for a weird 2000 word sure to be recycled story? ~Sheena
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
quote:Unfortunately, my 3rd quarter story is stuck in the mud and I can't figure out where to go with it. All I know is that I want to use this particular idea and run with it.
WD...same here. My story ending would have been too dark, IMO, for WOTF so I stared at it for three days until an unrelated conversation with a friend gave me the ending. Now I just have to put fingers to keys and get it finished.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Yeah, I was stuck in my current story for some time as well, but I kicked it around and abused it some to make it sit up and fly straight. I know where it's going now, but I still have to find time before Thursday to write it, which may prove more difficult than I thought. If I run a few days behind, can I submit a few days late? That's not the plan, but I was wondering how merciful the group is . . .
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
Tearen, I haven't recieved your story. Would you mind sending it again? (I had this problem with another crit I promised someone, I think it's my email server...)
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm happy to provide feedback on all stories from the group, the only proviso being that I might not get around to actually reading them until after the 14th, I'm furiously trying to errorcheck my first draft so I can have it out in the mix by then too. But if anyone has anything they want read, send it on, and it'll be first in line when I start reading Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
We're completely forgiving, RC.
If not, I'd never get a crit from anyone in this group. (eg: I'm ALWAYS late)
Take the time you need. We'll be here when you need us.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
ScaredyDog, I resent my work. I hope it is getting through a spam filter or something. You could also email me directly.
Also, anyone who is done with theirs can sent it to me for crits.
Thanks.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Huzzah, I reached the end! I'm looking for some first readers to guide me in shaping this puppy. Anyone interested?
Do we keep a list of who has stories available for critique?
As mentioned previously, I'm happy to critique everyone's stories, so please feel free to send them in; now that I'm finished drafting I'll also email you if I see any requests up. But! Since I suspect I get carried away with my critiquing (the left brain computer programmer in me), if you want something specific included in (or omitted from) the critique, please let me know. Or, as always, just ignore the less relevant ramblings ;)
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
BenM and anyone else, I am happy to do critiques whenever you're ready. Send it on.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
To all; I am ready to read and crit... send your story anytime! This is going to be fun! Doug
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
List of those ready to critique Add your name to the list when you're ready.
Owasm BenM Genevive42 Teraen Dougsguitar
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited January 14, 2010).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
As of tomorrow, we're all on the docket to being open for crits. Myself included, even though I still haven't finished my first draft. School's been kicking my butt, and I don't even have any classes to take. Just research these days. Ugh. I'm going to do some banging away on the story in the next few days though. So, we'll see how things progress.
Looking forward to seeing some good things this quarter.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
I'm ready, but a little instruction on how you guys go about submitting would be nice.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Owasm, I tried sending you the story, but it came back undeliverable.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Maybe this will help, recovering. See the envelope above this text? That is my email address. Almost everyone on this forum allows their email address to be placed in there. Just click on owasm's envelope, then click on his email address and Wa-La! Should work, if not curl up into the fetal position and start sucking your thumb.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Thanks for the informative explanation, but I kinda figured that one out already Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Owasm has changed his email address from a few days ago and has a typo in it. The last four letters should be changed to net.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Er... sorry about the spam, but I realized that my ending needed a little polishing. I got a little punchy and over-excited when I finished and mailed it off with a revision. Keep the second email and delete the first.
Sorry
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
No worries, cynic. Thanks for the heads up.
So, I have one scene left and then the first draft of my story will be complete. It's a long one though, and I don't think I'm going to be able to get it done until this weekend. So, look for my story next Monday. Honestly, I'm having difficulty coming to terms with the fact that I'm going to be done so close to the real deadline. Crazy.
Feel free to start sending first drafts out to everyone in the group now. You should see your inboxes start to fill up with stories-to-crit. Thanks for being part of the group, everyone. This is really what's going to help us become better writers and winners of this dang contest in the end.
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Dang recovering_cynic, I just read your story , and I am really impressed with your ability to write dialogue.
Everybody else, If you haven't sent me your story yet, send it please.
I've got a lot of good comment from the people I've sent my story to, and I'm now working on the second draft. So If you haven't read my story yet, I'll be sending a better version when it is ready. Which will not be today. ~Sheena
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
My email is now back to normal. So you can send me your stories.
I've got one from BenM and recovering_cynic
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited January 15, 2010).]
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
My personal status update is about halfway (2000 words) completed. Hoping to finish it this weekend.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Thank you for the compliment Shimiqua Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I might be about a week from finishing. There's a chance that I'll be using most of the 17,000 words for this story. The scary part is that this is a shortened version of the concept.
I have a question though. It's very clear that there shouldn't be sex scenes in the story. No argument there. But what about mentioning that two people have been together, if it's relevant to the story? Do you think that would be a deal breaker?
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Everything I've read suggests that that is fine.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Hey folks, I sent my draft out to seven people and have received only two in return. I would love to see more... Doug
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
quote:I might be about a week from finishing. There's a chance that I'll be using most of the 17,000 words for this story. The scary part is that this is a shortened version of the concept. I have a question though. It's very clear that there shouldn't be sex scenes in the story. No argument there. But what about mentioning that two people have been together, if it's relevant to the story? Do you think that would be a deal breaker?
KD Wentworth just spoke again on the SFF forums on this. I added it to the WOTF Advice thread. http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/005988.html Basically she said just think PG-13. I think references to being together would be perfectly fine, especially if it is integral to your story whether that be through plot lines, character development, or whatever reason you feel the story would suffer without it.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Received 5, critted 5, will be shooting an email off to everyone else to see if there's more material available yet.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I've caught a little momentum on my own story so crits will be another day or two.
I promise never to take more than a week to crit. Usually I do it in 3-5 days.
But it's always tough waiting to hear back. I'll try and hurry.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I hope I didn't get read into as being impertinent. I guess I'm just a little excitable at the moment. Too much caffeine. ;)
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
We're all excited.
I just didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't taking their crit seriously. And sometimes while you're waiting it helps to know that there's and end date where you're guaranteed a response.
I'm truly excited to read everyone's stories and I want to give them the attention they deserve.
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
I think I'm going to have leave this group. My story is nowhere close to being finished and I think I'm going to aim for next quarter instead. Sorry for leaving kind of at the last minute but I was giving myself extra time to see if I could put something together.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
quote:I think I'm going to have leave this group. My story is nowhere close to being finished and I think I'm going to aim for next quarter instead. Sorry for leaving kind of at the last minute but I was giving myself extra time to see if I could put something together.
Use your Cinders winning story. You already have 13 crits on it
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
Sorry anyone who's waiting for a crit, I was away last weekend and didn't have time. I'll get them done this week. I think I only have five or so in the queue, so if you haven't yet, feel free to send me your story.
My own story will be sent out soon. It's the one from snapper's contest, so I want to do a quick revision based on those crits first. Look for it by the end of the weekend.
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
Good idea DW. I think I will use that story, though I think it needs a little expanding.
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Can I join the fun? I have an old story that needs a little cutting to meet the word limit (its about 18000 now), but I don't quite like the end and need some inspiration of where I went wrong and how to fix. It's ready for critiques.
The more the merrier.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Hey, everyone.
I just posted a link to Vonda McIntyre's article on manuscript preparation in the initial post for this thread (I'm going to add it as a permanent posting for all of our future WotF groups). If you're new to the publication-submission game, this is a great article to reference when formatting your entries for any kind of publication-submission. This is a generic format, but is a good base to start from. Always check on special formatting necessary for each place you submit. I thought it'd be a good idea to have this information readily available. It can only help after all.
I should be finishing my story tonight. Always something else to get in the way... Later all.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
So far, I've only gotten one story to critique (from BenM). Where are the rest? Supposedly there are like five that are read...
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Okay. I've sent out my first draft. I didn't even give it a once over for stupid little stuff that I'd obviously catch on a read-through, so I hope that it's okay. If anyone doesn't get it, let me know and I'll re-send.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
My story is driving me crazy. I know what needs to happen, but I'm stuck halfway; the story refuses to go where I want it to go. Grrr.
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
recovering cynic. I always crit stories in the order in which they are received. I've read your story and have a few ideas for you, but there is a story in front of yours. It takes time, but I promise I will crit every story that is sent to me. I sometimes can only do one story a day.
Be patient. ~Sheena
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Kitti: Instead of wallowing in the mud, let the story go where it wants to (or at least look in that direction) and see if that place is worthwhile. Otherwise, you may have a problem earlier on in the story. If you want a pre-read of what you already have, I'm open for it.
Cynic: I've received three stories so far: from you, Doug, and Ben.
From what I can tell through past posts, stories from these users have been sent out previously: Brendan Shimiqua Owasm Teraen
Can we get a re-up people? Just want to make sure we all get the most bang-for-our-buck this quarter.
Also, a redo of the current list as we had two members drop out for this quarter and the previous list doesn't reflect this.
Note: I realized this after sending my story out last night.
Looking for more good stuff! Keep it coming.
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
I was wrong when I said I had 5 in the queue, in fact I only have 3. So I don't think you are missing any cynic, we're just behind schedule Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Okay, I've gotten everyone's crit done that sent to me except Writer Dan's which I just got today. But my eyes are getting blurry from staring at the screen so I think I'll stop for now.
If anyone has questions about my comments, please feel free to ask me about them. I am happy to discuss my crits.
I've just got a few thousand more words on mine and then I'll be sending it out. Hopefully that will happen before the weekend is up.
I hope everyone is doing well. Happy writing!
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm starting a deconstruction and rework of my story, so if anyone in the group hasn't read it yet, then I'd suggest don't start now - I would appreciate having a fresh pair of eyes available to read the second draft when the time comes. If you have read it, then please critique away - further input will still be handy.
In the meantime I'm always happy to receive stories to critique and will get them back to you as promptly as possible.
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
I changed stories (surprise!), and sent out my first draft. If you didn't get it, and want it, please tell me. ~Sheena
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Just a few more scenes...
Of course, that means I have to figure out what they are.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
BenM ~ great story. I would rather work from your most recent revision copy, so if you want to send it I will make comments and get it back quickly. To all ~ Had a brief flurry of activity which made 'time' hard to come by. I have read all the storys and will do the comments early this week. I am learning a lot just by reading your work.
Sheena ~ Fire it over... I liked the first one and would love to read the second.
[This message has been edited by dougsguitar (edited January 24, 2010).]
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Been sick. If I haven't critiqued your story - it may be a while. Sorry.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I hope you're feeling better soon.
Posted by Teraen (Member # 8612) on :
Random thought:
Rather than trying to coordinate multiple emails back and forth, I had an idea. Problem is, I don't know if it is a good one or not. I thought we could start an email account on Gmail or some free service, like Hatrackwritingpeoples @ gmail.com or whatever, then upload drafts into their online writing program.
Then, whenever someone wants to crit, they just pull a story that has been submitted and email it to the author from that same email account. Bingo! Instant feedback. And no longer dost one have to worry about who has recieved drafts.
Is this a good idea or not?
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm a bit ambivalent about the idea (but this is only my first crit group, so who knows, my tune may change). But services like gmail already have document collaboration stuff anyway - you can upload your doc to your gmail account and share it with selected users as it is.
However, I'm quite liking my spreadsheet that shows who I sent which version on which date, who I've received crits from, what everyone's email address is and whose stories I've received and critted. Given that I eventually want to track submissions, developing a system I could get used to seemed like a good idea.
If you do set up something with a shared password, just be aware it can be abused - if one user changes the password, or makes it known publicly, you might find your story has gone outside the group, which would be a really sad outcome. Of course, trust can be abused with any system anyway. *shrug*
[This message has been edited by BenM (edited January 26, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Honestly, I think I prefer the e-mail method. I don't know that I feel comfortable putting my story on someone else's server. That's what we'd be doing, right?
Besides, I like the personal touch of e-mail.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Teraen - I know some online writers groups that work like that (and have participated in some of them). I personally prefer the email method, even if it only gives me the illusion of controlling who has access to my drafts.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
So I've been having some problems with my email and certain emails have not been getting through (isp problems). If you've sent out a story in the last week or so, you might need to send it to me again.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Hey, guys. I want in. I went looking for the "Regular Timetable" group, and it looks like there isn't one this quarter. So, it will be a few more days before my new story is ready to send out, but I can read some.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Woohoo! I finished my first draft. Give me a day or so to proof it and I'll be sending it out.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Welcome Christopher, send it through when you're ready.
So how is everyone doing? It seems to have gotten a little quiet lately (I'm guessing I'm not the only one furiously editing away?). Are some of us still aiming at second drafts ready for crits in a week?
I've still not received stories from a couple of people, so if you want some fresh eyes, send 'em through. And I feel compelled to add that if I sent you an unhelpful critique, let me know. I'll not learn otherwise.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Okay, I've sent it out. Let me know if you didn't get it and you're willing to take a look at it.
Thanks to everyone for your time.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
If anyone wants me to take a peak at their story, come hit me at my blog or web page. Can't say I know everything about winning, but I might be able to give you folks a hand, if you need it. I don't do low-level line edits as much as I try to provide feedback on emotional aspects of the story -- did it grab, did it hold, did it move, etc. Can occasionally make suggestions for fixes. Will try to not be too much of a back-seat writer. (grin)
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
That's a very generous offer Brad, thanks.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
WARNING: I don't pull punches when I read.
DOUBLE WARNING: I am assuming anyone who sends me something, wants to win the Contest, so I slant my comments accordingly.
TRIPLE WARNING: Nothing I write is personal, and all of it is my OPINION only. If you find value in it and you think it helps you, then excellent, that's why I am offering. If you think it's rubbish and can't use it, also perfect, because all of us have to -- at some point -- learn to 'trust our instincts' and know when to push back with critique and review.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Liberal application of BIC has finally forced my story to an end. Whew! I know I'm a bit behind this quarter, but I'll send it out for your benevolent shredding shortly....
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
What's BIC?
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Butt-in-Chair ;-)
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
I know I've been wishy-washy but now I'm joining for real. I've gotten my revised first draft finished and I'm going to send it out and start working on the all the crits I've recieved.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I've been unable to sit at my computer for a number of days. Those who've sent me stories will be getting them in the next few days.
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Sorry for the delay in doing the crit work... many hours of practice and several gigs are keeping me at the guitar rather than the lap-top. Should be able keep my promises, however belated, this week. I haven't written a single word in many days... ARGGGG!
gasp... I misspelled arggggh... I think... see what I mean!
[This message has been edited by dougsguitar (edited February 02, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Has everyone sent their stories out? Is there anyone still working on their first draft?
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Me. I think I may have to fall back on my backup story after all.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
How's everyone looking on the resubmit? I think I have mine mostly ready.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Since my first draft went out just a week ago I haven't gotten my first full round of crits back. And while I've made some adjustments based on those, I'm waiting to get all or most of them back before I go too much further into the second draft.
By the way, this is in no way a complaint. I know I sent out a big story and we all have lives and our own projects. I'm just chiming in on status.
For fun though, I wrote this to an artist friend of mine that I gave the story to:
I know you're busy, drawing and working your fingers down to bloody nubs while you come up with brilliant illustrations for your current project. But I am humbly inquiring as to whether you might have been able to grace my story with a few moments of your precious time so that you may reflect and respond to the drivel I have entreatied you to read so that you may rend it asunder. And while your response may shred my soul, leaving it like so much trash in the overflowing, putrid dumpster in a dark alley behind a delicatessan with the rotting remains of potato salad and moldy pig's feet, I look forward to hearing from you.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Lol. I have a major deadline on Monday at noon (major like, my entire income next year depends on it) but I'll get to everyone's stuff by Tuesday. Scout's honor.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Mine is →║← this close to being ready for the second round.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
I am still in travel status. I wont be able to get mine out or return crits until after the 15th...sorry
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
I'm ready for the second round, so anybody who hasn't read or crit my story just wait for version 2.0. ~Sheena
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Anyone who wants to send Round 2, I'm ready to crit anytime.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
For all you writing space stories, check this out:
Hi, all. This will be my first time entering the WOTF. I have a 17k (16,800 in fact) word story ready. I'm still not sure if I want to show this to anyone before I send it. A part of me is afraid someone will steal my story, the other part wants to learn all it can.
So you simply send each other your stories in e-mails? I wouldn't mind seeing someone's story to see how other people write. And I won't steal anything, I promise. Unless it's really really good.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Martin, the chances someone will steal your story are about 0.0% because the moment you commit that story to paper -- be it pulp or electronic -- it's yours. You own it under copyright, and nobody who is serious about their own fiction is going to come along and want to "swipe" yours. Certainly I would not. Heck, I don't even have enough time in the week to write my own stories, much less browse for someone else's to "steal," so I think you can relax on that one.
Now, as for having others take a look at it, I think that's a great idea, and I would also caution you. Not everyone is going to give a critique that is useful, and you have to prepare yourself for the fact that not everyone will feel the same way about your story that you do. In fact, some may hate it. Be bored by it. Not understand it, etc. Before letting anyone have a look at it, ask yourself these questions:
1) Are you ready to be disappointed? 2) What are you hoping to get out of someone else's feedback? 3) Are you prepared to not argue? 4) I say again, are you prepared to not argue??
Because readers' reactions cannot be "wrong." I think one of the big reasons critique often fails is because the writer doesn't understand that a reader's emotional reaction to the story cannot be logical. If your story "misses" with the reader you have no chance of arguing them back around to seeing the story through your eyes. The story either scores, or it doesn't, and you have to be ready to just accept that. And either look at the story through the reader's eyes -- and maybe see where problems might be -- or stick to your original vision and discard what you've received.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
My self confidence is regularly crushed by critiques, even good ones (yes, I'm probably just fragile), but after a bit of reflection and/or denial I've always found the story, and my writing, both improve for it.
If you'd like to swap stories, send it through. I'm a first time wotf submitter and unpublished writer too, so we're in the same boat, I think. If there's anything you do or don't want critiqued, perhaps add that, but otherwise I'll just give the most honest feedback I can. And I'll only critique the story, not you, I promise.
One other thing to be prepared for; at 17K words it might take a little time. Work and kids and all that, you know.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
@Martin
I was scared to death to send my first story out for critiques. Like biting my fingernails, stomach twisting, can't sleep at night terrified. (Gosh was that only a year ago? How time flies!)
But I did it. And then I did it again. And while taking feedback isn't easy, it wasn't as hard as I was afraid it would be. Especially on Hatrack, pretty much everyone makes sure to throw in comments on both the good and the bad.
Looking back, I almost can't believe how much getting outside critiques has improved my story-craft. Even in my absolute best stories, a fresh eye can always find something that I might want to expand, or clarify, or reconsider. If you're not ready to send it out to a whole group, even one or two people providing feedback might be a start (though I think you get more balanced critiques when you have several to look at - things multiple people comment on are more of an issue than the one outlier critique).
Okay, enough playing around on Hatrack for me. I'm now going to get to all that critiquing I haven't had time for over the weekend. Expect stuff incoming over the next day or so.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
MartinV, I'd be happy to take a look. Send it on over. I'll be thorough but gentle. I think I'm usually pretty good at explaining the reasons behind my comments. For me, it always helps to understand the 'why' of the problem. Then it's easier to decide if you agree with it.
I'll send you my second draft in a week or so when it's ready. I wouldn't mind having a fresh set of eyes on it for the second round.
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
quote:Martin, the chances someone will steal your story are about 0.0%
I know. It's a very old kind of paranoia, that's all. I can control it now.
quote:Not everyone is going to give a critique that is useful, and you have to prepare yourself for the fact that not everyone will feel the same way about your story that you do. In fact, some may hate it. Be bored by it. Not understand it, etc.
I am well aware of that. I have posted stories before in forums and some people couldn't understand them. I believe I can take a critique with courtesy.
quote:I'd be happy to take a look. Send it on over.
Any particular format and font? I have it in doc as I write in Microsoft Word. I usually write it in Times New Roman, size 12, with single spacing but I also have it in Standard Manuscript Format if that makes it easier to read.
Also, I don't have to send it whole. First few pages, for example.
[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited February 08, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
It would be nice if it were double spaced. And .doc or .rtf are the best formats. .rtf is supposed to be pretty universal.
I'd rather see the whole thing. Send it on through.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
You might as well forward it to the whole group, everyone who's participating. Scroll up to see the list.
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
Story sent to everyone on the list. Except me, of course.
[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited February 08, 2010).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Hey all,
Sorry I haven't been around for a bit. Got the flu bug for a week, and now fighting a sinus infection on the back end. Dumb bugs. I've mostly just done re-thinking about my story for this quarter, but have decided that I need to change quite a bit. As such, I don't want to hold people back, and I know that there are others in the group that are a bit behind the scheduled timeline as well (not to mention the fact that this group is getting a bit large for all intents and purposes) so I'm going to bail and give a late start to the "Regular Timeline Group" that we normally have on this forum. That should make the group sizes a bit more manageable for crit swapping and also allow for a greater range of "finishedness" in each group's members. lol. That ain't a word and don't I know it. Anyhow, I'll do crits on all the stories that I've received thus far from this group, but I'm going to bail to the other group now (and I'd appreciate a little company there, if anyone else is interested. )
So, the new member list for this group is:
Owasm Arriki Dark Warrior Teraen BenM Kitti dougsguitar ScardeyDog genevive42 recovering_cynic shimiqua Brendan Christopher Satate MartinV
If you plan on bailing to the Regular Timeline Group with me, please repost the current list with your name removed from it. That way, everyone knows what's happening.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I'm clueless and confused. If I send to someone in the wrong group or something, let me know.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I think I'll follow you. Been seriously sick and not out of the woods yet.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
I just sent out my story to you guys.
If anyone still needs their story read by some fresh eyes, send it my way.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I have been getting some great crits and very helpful ideas on how to improve my story.
I want to send out a big THANKS to everyone.
Realistically my second draft will go out in about two weeks though I'm trying for sooner. I have never dug so deep to perfect a story. This is a great learning experience!
Posted by dougsguitar on :
Hey folks I hate to do this but I gotta take a short break from all this, short as in a coupla weeks. All manner of activity is going on around here that takes every minute to contain... kinda like herding cats through a dog-kennel. Please do not wait on my responses to your stories to continue the revision process. I will continue to read and comment when time allows and will return as soon as things calm down a bit. FYI - one of those situations is actually my daughter getting married (shudders, drools a little, stares at the wall for a few moments... blinks rapidly while shaking head...) ahem... so anyway, I think you all get the picture. Peace! Good writing! and... see you in the funny papers! Doug
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Updated member list:
Owasm Dark Warrior Teraen BenM ScardeyDog genevive42 recovering_cynic shimiqua Brendan Christopher MartinV
Dougsguitar: When you're back around, add your name to the list again. This way we can avoid any confusion.
Members taken off the list here have joined the Regular Timeline group, which has deadlines that have been moved back one month to allow for more time this quarter.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
I am back home from my travels and lockdown in the hotel after Philadelphia was completely shut down from the snow storms...kids were even sledding down the closed off highway on ramps...and I look forward to getting back into the game, critting everyones fine efforts they have sent me, and taking a look at mine once again.
It feels good to be back.
Donavan
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Welcome back. I really have to stop slacking and get back to editing mine. If anyone sent me a story and I've not returned a critique yet, please let me know.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Woohoo...back at it.
I am currently working on crits for
WriterDan BenM
and working in order of the stories sent to me. I hope to burn through a lot of them this weekend.
I am excited by the number of entries this quarter. I am still hoping for a Hatrack sweep
[This message has been edited by Dark Warrior (edited March 01, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Dark Warrior, if I'm on your list you can skip my story. I've finished the second draft. I'd be happy to send it to you but you seem to have a lot on your plate and I don't want to add to it.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
No, please send the 2nd draft when it is ready.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Send your second draft to me too, Genevive. You're still on my list. Getting there slowly but surely.
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
I only got three stories to review so send here as well.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I've sent it out to you three gentlemen and a few others. I thought I heard the dog barking so you might want to go check the mailbox.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I've posted a topic in Open Discussions called, "Said-Yelled-Whispered" that relates to what we're doing here. I'd love for anyone interested to have a look and give some input.
Genevieve...just a status update. I am about 50% through your crit.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Let me start by saying that I really appreciate this critique group. Everyone has made comments and suggestions that have been valuable in reworking my story.
My question to everyone is: Have most of the crits you've been receiving been falling in a close range of comments or across the spectrum?
Personally, I've been getting comments across the spectrum. Of course some points, the ones that need the most fixing, have come up consistently. But the general reception to my story has been highly varied. I don't see this as good or bad, just interesting.
So without getting specific, I'm just wondering what your experience has been.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Kitti Martin Cynic Christopher Brendan
Your crits are next...should I get to them as is or do you have 2nd drafts to look at?
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
genevive42 - much the same. I think I've seen this elsewhere too (on critters, for example, you can view all crits for last week's stories and review them). I found the common problems are clearly most worth thinking about, but they're all useful. Some unique comments were instrumental in identifying what I felt were major issues.
Overall this is my first experience with a critique group and on the whole I'm loving it. I'll be in for next quarter (now, to actually write something for next quarter...).
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
Since the comments to my story have generally been on the same side of the spectrum, I believe I do not need more people to comment it. I believe I know what you will say. I'm working on a rewrite which I hope will win more favour with the western hemisphere than the old version.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Thanks Martin...send me the rewrite whenever you are ready.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I second that, Martin. Send the rewrite when you're done. I'm looking forward to it.
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
I'm ready to print and send. Anyone else at that point, and willing to give me a few pointers?
For example, what size envelope do you send the thing in with? Does the quality of paper you print on matter, and if I happen to drop a fiver in the envelope, would I be disqualified?< the last one is not serious.
~Sheena
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I haven't done WotF before but when I have to send out a hard copy I always use a 9x12 manila envelope. As for paper quality I hadn't really thought about it as it seems that most multi-purpose paper is sufficient. But if others have a different view about paper I'd be happy to hear it.
I hope to be sending mine out within a week.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I always just used normal printer paper and whatever size envelope the manuscript fits into with folding. I've used a couple different envelope sizes/types and I really don't think it matters to them.
Note on the SASE - if you don't want the ms returned and just give them a letter-sized envelope, but then you HM, they will still send you your certificate (in a bigger envelope they provide). So you don't need to worry about that.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Buy the brightest white paper that you can get (without going overboard). I usually find 96 or 98 (100 is max). Having bright white paper and nice dark ink/toner makes the manuscript easier to read and look more professional. Also, bind the manuscript with one of those back plastic and metal Binder Clips (Image Googling this term will make it obvious what I'm talking about, though you can ignore the pics of the lady with a dress made out of them... lol) before sending it off. Just helps to keep the thing looking nice. Ditto Kitti on the envelope size, but yeah I do usually get the 9X12 size. Look at the link to Vonda McIntyre's Manuscript Preparation on the first page of this post for help with formatting (Speaking of, I should probably have a link to the WotF manuscript guidelines posted there as well), keeping in mind that any guidelines from WotF trump the generic ones listed there. Good luck!
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Thanks everyone.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
I have a question and a request, of sorts.
This is my first time in the group. Do we ever do much of a post-mortem? Learn from our mistakes? After we've sent in our entry and it's come back with rejected or HM or Finalist or Winner, do we ever make the submitted version available to others who were in that quarter's group to discuss?
I'd discuss the pros & cons of the idea more but maybe it's obvious and already being done - is it?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Not really, Ben. Mostly what we've done in the past is just announce what we got and move on to the next story. The group has had a bundle of HMs in the past and a couple of semi's. Letting the group in on the "secrets of a semi-finalist critique" from Kathy Wentworth would probably be helpful, but we have to get there first. Anything else is more like, "Good job, but keep on moving forward". You know? Maybe I'm being a bit too simplistic though. Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I've put HM's up in F&F before (the ones where I can't figure out what was weak, as opposed to the ones that come back and I cringe when I see what I wrote) and asked for crits, but that's about it.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I don't know if anyone still has my second draft and hasn't critiqued it yet, but if you do, don't worry about it. I've gotten the story to what I think is a good place and after one more check I plan to be sending it out.
And know that there are no hard feelings if you didn't get to it. It's a big story and we all have lots to do.
I would also like to thank everyone who did crit for me, first or second draft, or both. I appreciate the time you've all spent helping me to make a stronger story. Your input has been great!
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Manuscript double-spaced and printed on bright white paper with title and page numbers in header.
Check.
Cover page with personal contact information, title and word count.
Check.
All binder clipped together along with a #10 SASE.
Check.
Placed in a neatly addressed manila envelope and sealed.
Check.
Fingers crossed, stars consulted and prayers said.
Check.
Tomorrow - off it goes.
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
I'm officially resigning from this contest. I need to read some short stories before I participate again. I will go back to writing novels for the time being.
[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited March 10, 2010).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Hey Martin, it sounds like you're more used to writing novels. If that's the case, I can see how trying to write short stories can come as a shock. It's amazing how much more demanding readers/critiquers are for short stories than they are for novels. Some things that would work perfectly well in a novel fall on their faces when used in a short story. For "good" short story examples, I'd suggest trying to get your hands on some of the most recent WotF anthologies and looking at the F&SF and Analog or Asimov's mags. Granted, not everything that you read in them will be good, but they're what's getting published with the big hitters. This group should still be around when you're ready to try this thing again, so don't forget us. Hope to see you back sometime.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited March 13, 2010).]
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Well, I posted my entry off this morning. It was a big event for me, because it was my first ever submission to anything. Which means, even if the response is a skinny little rejection slip, or a 'So sorry' from the post office saying that it got rerouted to Bangladesh and eaten by a Royal Bengal Tiger, I can post the response on the wall and say I am here. Which is kind of cool, really.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Congrats, Ben!
I know the feeling. Been submitting to WotF now for a few years, and sent off my first-ever non-WotF submission about two months ago, and I'm still freaking out about it. No response yet. Hope you're going to be on board for this next quarter. Nothing has helped me more in my "consistency" goal than having these quarterly deadlines coming down the track at me all the time. Good luck this quarter!
Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :
Hello again.
I got back from vacation and distracted by real life, to the point where no writing has taken place since. I'm afraid I'm officially dropping out of this group. I just wanted to thank everyone for the crits, particularly Kitti. Your advice on what a short story is has inspired me to completely re-write my piece.
If anyone is still waiting/expecting a crit from me please send me a reminder email. Good luck to everyone who submitted!
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
This is way, way late. I've been ill for two months and couldn't resist sprucing up a story and sending it in. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I sent this around weeks ago, but I spiced it up a touch and if anyone can do a quick read, I'd appreciate it.
Other than the basic story, I need to find out if the MC changes too much when he gets back to civilization.
Let me know by an email or with a post here.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I'll take a look, Owasm.
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
On March second I printed out my story. It took me over a week to buy an envelope, not because Walmart is far away, it's not, or because we didn't have enough money, we were fine, but because I was SCARED out of my MIND.
I've submitted stories before, but only online where you can click send and then freak out in the privacy of your own home. This whole printing out the story thing is real. You have to go somewhere and talk to someone and pay money in order to submit. It's no longer a dream just between me and my computer, I'm involving the entire USPS.
Because of this it took me another several weeks to get from my house to the post office, but yesterday I finally did it.
I submitted my story. It feels pretty awesome to make my dream a little more tangible, you know? I held my dream in my hand for a few weeks and then was brave enough to open it up for the whole world. That is scary and awesome, and I'm feeling pretty proud of myself right now for this next step I've taken on the way to achieving my dream.
Now I'm on to forgetting about this whole thing so when the reject button comes down I don't forget to keep going.
Thanks everyone for the help. ~Sheena
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Yay, Sheena! Way to go!
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Hey Sheena, Great to hear!
I myself just sent my very first entry/submission like two weeks back. I'm not sure how long it takes them to e-mail confirmation of receipt, but I'm not worried yet. Having mailed it near the end of the quarter I'd imagine it takes a little longer.
I've been trying to either envision/start/write as many short stories as I can in the next three months so if I get a big ol rejection I'll have a story to send next time. I'd imagine it's hard to start something new after that...
Here's wishing good luck - to both of us!
Axe
[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited March 30, 2010).]
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Way to go Sheena! They should all be easier from now on.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Mailed off my Q02 today along with my Q01 reject to another professional market. Looking forward to an uninterrupted 3 months refining my Q03 entry.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Mailed off my final draft yesterday. Now, on to Q03...
By the way, Congrats Shimiqua. Your first step toward being a real published author. Keep up the good work!
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Well, I just chucked mine into the mail. Still not happy with it, but I keep reminding myself that if I waited to submit stories until I was 100% happy with them, I'd never submit anything at all....
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I sent mine in March 10th and haven't gotten confirmation that they've received it. Is this time lag normal? Don't they usually send confirmation?
I did send it priority with tracking (no signature), so the Post Office has confirmed delivery; but WotF hasn't.
Thoughts?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Sometimes they miss. You can shoot off an email to Joni and ask her. Just be sure to send the email from the account that you listed on your entry or your response might be a bit delayed. Personal experience on that one.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
I sent mine off around March 20th, give or take a few days. I still haven't gotten a confirmation. I'm excited for everyone. Best of luck to all!
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I just got a reply from Joni that my story was received and entered. All is well.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Got my reply as well.
I wanted your input on something: I've been doing some anthology reading for WotF, and while I've only read a handful of stories, I haven't found a single one that has any kind of violent content. I've read the synopsis for a lot of the other stories too, and none of them sounds particularly violent. This troubles me.
Is WotF pacifist in nature? You all read my last submission. I eliminated all the gory in it, but it was, by nature, violent. People got shot and/or blown up. So my question is this: have you ever seen a winning entry/published finalist that had a militaristic feel and/or violence? I guess what I'm asking is whether I got screwed before I ever got out the gate. I had a lot of people say that my story was good enough to win, but I'm not sure if the content nuked it before it ever really got considered. If you do know of a winning story of a more violent nature, could you tell me the title and volume number so I can give it a read over?
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Have you read Gone Black in the latest edition? It is about a military base. That one is about as violent as they get for WotF.
WotF wants to be able to market their books to young teens so they keep the content down to a soft PG. If your stories exceed that you might be in trouble.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I forget which edition it was in (2-3 years ago, maybe), but there's a story about a time traveling reporter who goes back and records war footage. There's definitely some violence in that one.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Hmm... I still haven't gotten my reply that I'm in.
Should I start to worry at this point or should I be past starting and in full fledged worry mode?
@cynic: I've only read XXV so far but I've been surprised a few times by some things like the story Gone Black and some F bombs. Actually made me think more highly of them...
Axe
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Axe, don't be worried. I sent a query after they had had it for a month and got a response about two weeks later. Joni said the stack next to her desk was six feet high. I didn't get the impression she was exaggerating.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
By the way, it was the first page of my story from this quarter that got me into Boot Camp. Thanks everyone for your critiques and comments. You're all awesome!!
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
I just got my confirmation two days ago, Axe, and I sent mine with a week to spare on the deadline.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Actually, I shouldn't sweat it.
I only learned of the contest itself from Dark Warrior's post and that was something like a month before the deadline. Thus, I submitted a story that, while satisfied with it, I can't help but think would be so much better now considering all that I've learned in the past month.
I have a copy sitting in the drawer next to me and I'm a little nervous to look at it. I'm afraid I'll find all kinds of glowing errors that would make me /facepalm.
The good news is that even if I get a straight rejection, I can take my new found knowledge, edit, and submit to other markets. I feel the idea is sound, even if the prose is lacking.
Axe
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Still havent received confirmation of this quarters entry. Not worried about it but wondering if anyone else has heard from Joni yet?
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Quoting Genevieve:
"By the way, it was the first page of my story from this quarter that got me into Boot Camp. Thanks everyone for your critiques and comments. You're all awesome!!"
What boot camp?
Posted by TamesonYip (Member # 9072) on :
OSC does a boot camp that you have to submit a sample of your work to get into. It is pretty competitive I hear.
I've not heard back either, but I read this a couple of weeks ago on the WotF forum:
quote:For anyone still wondering whether their Q2 entry arrived, Joni says,
'Sorry, I'm having the biggest quarter in history and still have a 4 foot stack next to my desk which I hope to have completed in the next 2 weeks.'
and figure it's not such a big deal (plus, this is my first submission, so I'm content to sit back and observe the process).
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Yup, biggest quarter in history, that's the one I try first.
I guess it means more for those of you who will get an honorable mention, or finalist, and soften the blow for when I get flat out rejected.
la sigh. ~Sheena
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
quote:Yup, biggest quarter in history, that's the one I try first.
Yeah... Me too.
Originally I was hoping for an HM, but the more I learn as I go along here, the more I realize I didn't know when I sent this entry in.
I will still be stung by a flat rejection, but it will be more of a mosquito than a hornet at this point.
Thanks for the update on the quarter.
Axe
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
Ah. They finally got to my entry. At least I'm in the massive slush pile that consists of WotF entries for Q2.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
an update from KDW on Q02 progress
quote:I sent back some boxes today, so at least some of the results should be coming out before too long. Now, back to editing vol. 26's stories.
I totally had to laugh when I read that post. I just got the verification email from Joni that my entry for Q02 had been received. At least they got it though. Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
quote:I totally had to laugh when I read that post. I just got the verification email from Joni that my entry for Q02 had been received. At least they got it though.
Im not worried because I realize how busy Joni is, but I have yet to receive my confirmation. I wonder which will come first confirmation or rejection
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Same, DW Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Got my notification today. If you havent gotten it check your inbox or spam. Joni said see sent the last ones out today. She also mentioned that this was the biggest quarter ever.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Nope. Perhaps it got lost in the mail, I sent it two weeks before the deadline. I notice my link to their forum is broken, so no way to look up more info there either... le sigh.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Still nothing. I do have a smam filter, but it's as weak as a nine year old grand master chess player.
I'd rather get a rejection than a lost in the mail...
Axe
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
One way to prevent 'lost in the mail' is to send it Priority Mail with delivery confirmation. It doesn't require a signature and you can track the progress of your shipment online. I send all of my hard copy manuscripts this way. I don't know how it would work for overseas, but US Postal handles this fine.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
After sending off an email to Joni on the 9th, I've just received confirmation today that my entry was indeed received. I'm waiting for it to sink in.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Just looked up the "Delivery Confirmation" option for USPS: costs seventy cents. In my mind, completely worth it based on the reduced amount of antacid I'll be taking when worrying about whether or not my stuff gets to where I've sent it. Good suggestion, Genevive.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Ben, I received my confirmation today as well.
Boy, those electronic submissions with their auto responders are going to be sweet.
Axe
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
July 1 update from KDW on her blog: "I sent back some more stories yesterday. Umpty million left to read."
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
There's a second list of honorable mentions up on the WotF blog. Anyone on there?
Axe
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
MEEEE!!!!! ~Sheena Boekweg, Utah
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Has anyone gotten a rejection yet? I have gotten neither a rejection nor an HM. It's giving me ulcers.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Sheena, I'm trying to remember, which story was yours?
EDIT: I looked it up. It was the one with the letters. Is that the one you eventually submitted?
[This message has been edited by recovering_cynic (edited July 07, 2010).]
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Yup. That's the one.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Nothing for me yet. Course, I sent mine in really late. The names I noticed from the group this time around were Sheena and Jennifer Hicks (though I don't know if she was in the group that quarter or not. I can't seem to find a story from her in my files, though she's been with us in the past).
We probably have a while to wait this quarter. LOADS of stories, and most of those from the group are going to be held onto until the bitter end anyhow. Well, those that don't make it into the final pile. Luck everyone.
And Cynic, Go write something!
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
I really should, but life has gotten a bit complicated at the moment (i.e. soon to be unemployed, soon to be a dad, soon to be moving back into my parents place and/or homeless). I've had some difficulty concentrating on writing or even wanting to write. Too much on my plate right now. Once things work themselves out (one way or another), then I'll get productive again (hopefully).
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Egad. Life just gets complicated sometimes, I guess. Best of luck to you, man. The group'll still be here when you get back into things.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Last set of HMs should be coming through in the next two days or so.
Posted by TamesonYip (Member # 9072) on :
recovering cynic- I'm kind of in a similar situation. My part time job is at a place that is closing, so everyone loses their part time job. My husband's job- the one that feeds us and all that- is laying off 15% of the work force next week and I am 3rd trimester of my second baby. My husband's work has projected 1000 new jobs 4 states away in 2 months, so we might be moving and if he loses job, we'll probably move too. Writing has been really difficult and I am falling behind my goals.
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Er... guess I was wrong. Kathy Wentworth was talking like the results would have been posted days ago. Wonder what the hold up is . . .
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I got my rejection by mail today. I live in LA so I'm about as close as you can get to where they're mailed from.
I wouldn't usually grouse at a rejection, but the story I sent in deserved better. I'm really hoping to prove that by getting it into a pro publication.
Oh well, there's always next quarter.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
quote:Oh well, there's always next quarter.
True Genevieve...and many of us have great hopes and aspirations for your Q03 story. I am sure it will have a great showing.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Thanks, DW
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Genevive, I am bummed to hear that. Especially considering that's the story in which the first page got you into boot camp, correct?
Well, at least you know OSC saw something in it and that ain't bad.
Axe
Posted by recovering_cynic (Member # 8964) on :
Sorry Genevive. That really does suck. I thought your story was one of the better stories we submitted. Also, your story seemed to fit well with past winners I had read. It makes me wonder what they looking for, really.
If they rejected yours, they're going to hate mine. It fit into their usual fair about as well as a square block into round hole.
Also, I don't remember, but what was your Q03 story about?
Edit: The one with the Aliens, right? I emailed you on it, talking about it having a soft climax. Did you modify it at all before sending it in finally? Or was your second draft pretty much your final draft?
[This message has been edited by recovering_cynic (edited August 05, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Thanks guys.
Yes axe, it is the one that got me into Boot Camp.
The one for this quarter was the post-apocalyptic with the voices of the dead that were driving everyone crazy. It had the Chinese Buddhists in the desert and the group at the end that were trying to clear the planet of the voices.
The alien one is in for Q03. I think that one may be more up their alley. It's higher concept and from what I've read, concept seems to be more important than character. The one that got rejected this quarter was very much a character piece.
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Trina, you know you are an awesome writer, and I bet boot camp just made you even better. I think it was just a huge quarter, and maybe when KDW got to your story she had just finished a series of post-apocalyptic stories or something. Or maybe she just needed to eat something. I thought your story was great.
My HM was strictly a character piece, so I don't think that was the reason. My story wasn't better than any of yours (obviously) but I think the reason it stuck out was because of the different format. I think the difference kind of shocks you into paying attention.
Good luck everyone. I'm still waiting to see if snapper wins the thing. ~Sheena
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Sheena, you are right. Your piece was all about character and it was great. I think you deserved better than HM.
Regardless, I appreciate all of the good thoughts. I didn't mean to turn this into a 'poor me' thing. It was just a big disappointment on what was already a crappy day. You guys are great for offering so much support. Thanks.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Some thoughts and observations:
Writers of the Future is (really) a science-fiction anthology. It's science-fiction stories and science-fiction ideas that make up a majority of the stories, despite the fact that horror and fantasy are sometimes accepted as well. I haven't read all of the anthologies by any means, but I have read 18-25 and that's the impression that I've gotten from doing so.
From what I've seen, stories that get rejected usually are poorly written, don't catch the reader's attention, don't have an obvious speculative element early on, and/or don't have a really cool idea associated with the story (science fiction = new/cool ideas). There are plenty of times that I've read stuff from the WotF anthologies that I thought had just about no "story" at all to them. But they did have cool ideas. This concept of "new ideas" seems to be the crux of the matter in my mind.
The story of mine that I liked the best, and thought had the best chance, got a flat reject from WotF as well. It's hard to say exactly what they're looking for in their accepted stories, but this is what I've noticed.
Take it as you will. And then go write some more. Cause we only get better with each new endeavor.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited August 05, 2010).]
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
By the way: Good Luck to everyone who hasn't heard. I hope we have a lot of Hatrack winners!
Posted by thomaskcarpenter (Member # 9192) on :
Last batch of HMs. Hopefully someone of you are in it.
Congrats Snapper, Owasm, Axeminister and any other Hatrackers on there. Love the silver Snapper Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Woohoo Snapper, Owasm, Axeminister!
Way to go guys!
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
Congrats to Snapper on the Silver HM and to all the others. Let's hope for a semi or a finalist for one of us.
Well. Back on track with the HM's.
I think a longer story that has a really complete story arc is what they like. My two rejections were shorter and a bit more like character studies. My three HM's were all longer and well developed with more characters and distinct plot lines. I hope that helps someone figure out what to write.
By the way there were exactly 30 HM's in the final group and I think someone counted the first two waves at 65. With the Silvers, that makes 98 HMs in two different flavors. Someone estimated 2,000 entries, so top 5% is pretty accurate. Snapper jumps into the silver stratosphere, in the near-heady group with close proximity to Finalists and Semi-Finalists.
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited August 12, 2010).]
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Ahahah... I've been checking the wrong blog every day.
Congrats snapper, Axeminister, Owasm, WriterDan, Jennifer and shimiqua! That's a good haul!
[This message has been edited by BenM (edited August 12, 2010).]
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
Good job guys!
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
So if you count the 15 that were on the Early Submissions Group and 5 that transferred to the Late Submission Group, that's 20.
We had six HM's. That's 30% of our group getting recognition. We even had a winner last year. I think that is a pretty good percentage since 5% of the submission population are recognized.
To me, it means that the WotF critique group does help and thanks to Writer Dan for keeping it going.
Posted by TamesonYip (Member # 9072) on :
So, we just need to make sure Writer Dan doesn't win, so he won't abandon us. Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Lol. Nice. Granted, I am a bit selfish in my motivations for keeping this group going... You guys'll do fine without me when I finally "graduate" from WotF, just like the then-current group will do fine as each of you do as well. Keep up the good work, everyone.
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
We need to recognize on this thread that Q02 entrant BenM has achieved immortality with his finalist designation!
Good Luck to Ben in the final judging.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
BenM is a finalist!?
Dude, you totally need to say something.
Didn't you find out back in July?
Axe
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Yeah, I found out a little over three weeks ago when I got a call on my cell while stepping off a bus on the way to work. You couldn't wipe the smile off my face all day.
At the time, she said they'd post the last HM, semifinalist and finalist names within the week, and they'd expedite judging to have it done in three weeks because it was getting very busy in preparation of their big bash in September. Given that the actual final posts weren't made until now, I'd say that things are falling behind a little (I'd been wanting to chip in a few time these last weeks, but I couldn't really do that without revealing where I got the info from).
While I'd like to get my hopes up at this stage, I think it's worth staying pragmatic - I don't know what stories I'm up against and if three of them are (say) potential nebula award winners then I'm not bothered at all (one thing that really gets up my nose is an entitlement culture that crops up now and again - I didn't pay to enter the competition so I'm wary of ever thinking that I expect to win, if you follow me).
Still, I critiqued some great stories this time and it's been educational to go through the whole process. Highly recommended.
I noticed I never saw snapper & Axeminister's stories or your names in our group lists - did you guys get them critiqued elsewhere?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Pretty sure that Axeminister joined in Q03 after finishing his Q02 entry during our deadline overlap. He's part of the group now though, so...
And Snapper comes and joins up with us every once in a while. We claim him when he comes around.
I am curious about how your two stories ended up before they got sent in (BenM & Snapper). If either of you are open to the idea, I'd like a read.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Not at all surprised that BenM managed to surplant my good fortune. That guy always beats me. Just goes to show you they take talent into consideration.
The story I sent I don't believe I have ever shown to the hatrack WotF group. I put it up in the Baens slush where it was ripped to shreds. Dave Steffen and skadder both read it and neither of them liked it. I did post the opening 13, twice...
Reading these again, I realized how much I was influenced by the comments. Version 2 of the second example is what I stuck with.
If you want to still read it, Dan (or anyone else) let me know.
And congrats to you Ben and Steve. Wonderful work.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Ben, I think I'm an honorary member of Q2. I didn't swap stories, which is a bummer because I didn't get to read yours, but I've kind of planted myself here ever since.
To answer your question, I did have a few friends look at the story and give feedback, but I wrote it a few years ago so I've had a ton of time to go over it on my own as well.
It was fun because I didn't know about WotF until, well, until I spotted this thread and I was like hey, I have a story that fits in just right there. So, I'm stoked to get an HM with something I wrote just for fun a while back.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you and Steve.
Axe
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Hmmm...
quote: Writers of the Future Contest Rejection Reported (Fiction) Today, 19 August 2010, 12 hours ago | digest@zerospam.duotrope.com (Duotrope's Digest) 140-day rejection received for a work of fiction on August 18.
Writers of the Future Contest Acceptance Reported (Fiction) Tuesday, 17 August 2010, 10:54:31 PM | digest@zerospam.duotrope.com (Duotrope's Digest) 145-day acceptance received for a work of fiction on August 17. Congratulations!
And I think it's working out fairly well so far.
I will be available for the normal scheduled crits on Jan 15th if that will help you keep your early promise this time.
School's been kicking my butt, and I don't even have any classes to take. Just research these days. Ugh. I'm going to do some banging away on the story in the next few days though. So, we'll see how things progress.
Luck everyone.