This is a critique group for writers that will be entering a story for the fourth quarter of 2008 in the Writers of the Future contest (25th year), and do so on an early schedule.
Anyone is welcome to join. If you do though, please follow the directions for such. Currently, the group consists of me: WriterDan
If you want to join the group for this quarter, please repost the current names list in a reply and add your name to the bottom.
Deadlines for this quarter's crits are as follows:
June 1st: Start writing
July 21st: First drafts out for crits
August 14th: Second drafts out for crits
August 31st: Mail-in final drafts for Q04
Note: The official mail-in deadline for this quarter is September 30th; however, this group's deadlines are set up so that all entries can be mailed up to a month before the deadline.
Sign up! And let's get busy writing!
Edited: pushed critique deadlines back a few weeks for this quarter.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited July 07, 2008).]
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
Viva la revolution!
So this is the new timeline group
We should try to win this time.
********** Writer Dan Bent Tree **********
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
quote: We should try to win this time.
As opposed to last time, when we really didn't try at all.
annepin the sass-mouth
********** Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin **********
I'm willing to cross over, too, if folks in the other group need critting, etc.
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
********** Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin cklabyrinth **********
Posted by stammsp (Member # 8000) on :
*gulp* Count me in.
********** Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin cklabyrinth stammsp **********
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Good for you Stammsp!
And welcome cklabyrinth!
Nice to have some fresh blood in the group.
Also agree with you Annepin...you're a sass-mouth. lol No, really, I think that cross communication with the "On-time" group will be good. I'm open for critting things over there as well. Thanks for making yourself available.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
I'll join up!
********** Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin cklabyrinth stammsp AWSullivan **********
Anthony
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
Deadline is soon approaching. I suppose I better write something.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
What WotF group would be complete without me.
Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin cklabyrinth stammsp AWSullivan snapper
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Ok... so our first draft manu's are due in a couple days.
What is the protocol here? Do we just email it to everyone in the group?
How does this work?
Anthony
[This message has been edited by AWSullivan (edited July 04, 2008).]
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
Send it when ready I am set to recieve, and it looks as if I migh finis my draft on time. Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Ok, since no one has joined the other group, I'm hoping its ok to consider me a part of this one. As that, I am very happy and willing to critique stories when the time comes, so please send them to me too. I don't have a completed story yet - its hanging around two k at the moment - but hope to be included in the critique scedule if necessary.
Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin cklabyrinth stammsp AWSullivan snapper darklight
Hops this is ok. I'm feeling very lonely in the other group
Edited to add: Not so alone now! But my offer to critique still stands.
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 06, 2008).]
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin stammsp AWSullivan snapper darklight
I probably won't have something ready for a while... Good luck to the rest of you.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
yeah... I lost a week somewhere in there, so I probably won't have anything for a while either. I'm happy to crit though.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Sounds familiar annepin. So, I'd like to suggest a delay, if that's all right with everyone else. I'm seeing a lot of "not quite ready" comments. How about we push the dates to the following?
First crits: July 21st Second crits: August 14th
That gives everyone another two weeks to get things together with their current story before first drafts are due, three weeks for turn around and "fixing", and then will still allow for two weeks on the back end for final polishing. I knew that this quarter would be tough because we had to compact the writing/critiquing schedule essentially from three months to two. Unless someone has big criticism to this schedule, let's plan on keeping to it instead. I'll change the deadlines on my first post so that there isn't any confusion for new people joining in. Next quarter we can keep to the regular schedule (with crit's on the 7th's of a month).
And as far as sending off manuscripts for critique, you can just email it to everyone in the group. Usually a pdf or rtf works fine. I know that a lot of people have access to Word, but not everyone. So, be amenable to sending your story in a different format if necessary. Mostly, we just want to push to get our stories out for critique by the given deadlines. If you have it ready before then, by all means send it out. Will lighten the critiquing load when it comes.
Luck all.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Okay! sent mine to the group. I'm open to critting whatever whenever.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
sorry, I have to revisit this. I actually sent something waaaay ahead of time. wow. the mind boggles. who am i?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Still not quite finished with my story for this quarter. Close though. I have everything plotted out, I just need to get it out in prose form. This quarter has been a mess. Started working on a re-write of my Q02 entry (because I still really think that it has a chance somewhere, despite the fact that it came back from them with a no-win), then I decided to start a different story. Got about ten pages into that and decided that I didn't know how it was supposed to go, but I had another idea that I had completely planned out. So, I started it, and am currently still working on it. Not to mention the early submission schedule. Ugh. And now, after only three major plot changes, I find myself here. But the plot is firm now. Firm! Eff...eye...are...emm! Will get it out as soon as I can. Later, all.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
I have a very very very very painfully rough rough rough (did I mention rough?) draft of my entry ready, can you believe it? I know! Crazy (I still reserve the right to write a completely new story for WOTF the last week before the submission deadline, LOL.)
I would actually like to workshop this crazy bad rough draft for plot plausibility, characterization, etc. I'm going to try to work on it in the next week (which is very hard w/kiddos home this summer) and give it at least a gentle buff, take some of the "explain this part of the story" parts out and replace them with actual story text, that sort of thing, but would be up for a critique circle in the next week to ten days if anyone else is.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
I'm open to critiquing whatever whenever. Just send it to me with WotF in the subject line and I'll make it a priority.
Posted by stammsp (Member # 8000) on :
Mine will not be ready--life intruded and I had choices to make. This was easier to put aside. I will try to pick it up later BUT,
I am willing to read any others' work if you can get it to me.
Gina
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Hey cklabyrinth, AWSullivan, and stammsp, did you get my submission? I sent it on July 13. Not trying to be a bug here, so if you got it and just haven't had time to look at it, no worries. If it's too boring and you can't get into it let me know that, too! If you haven't gotten it, tell me, and I'll resend.
Darklight, I just want to make sure I'm not missing your crit.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Haha Anne,
I read and critiqued your story this afternoon. It should be in the mail. Sorry for the delay, I honestly just forgot about it.
I liked the story BTW.
Anthony
Posted by stammsp (Member # 8000) on :
Annepin,
I sent it back with the crit on the 15th. It was listed under stammsp or Gina (or Michael as it seems to automatically attach that name to everything.)
Gina
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Got my story for NEXT quarter all plotted out in detail (ala midnight scribbling on the pages of my trusty writing notebook). Maybe the freaking thing will leave me alone now so that I can finish the story for THIS quarter. Will try my best to put it out by the end of the week. I'm up for critting anything that anyone currently has ready. Am excited to see a few more make the rounds here.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Okay, so I got my story for this quarter out. If anyone was expecting to get it, and didn't get it, let me know. I just used the email addresses that you had on file with Hatrack. Glad that first draft is out. Phew!
Posted by Icared (Member # 8091) on :
I guess I am a bit too late to join this quarter's early submission group, but I will try hard to catch up for 2009 Q1.
Still if anyone wants some critique for their WotF story from a newbie, I would be happy to help.
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
If you have a draft or are close, I think you will be in good shape. Just post here on your updates and you will likely find the help you need. And thanks for your kind offer.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
We're actually pretty flexible here, Icared. If you're ready for a crit from us, send your story along. Otherwise, you can work to have it done for our second round of crits on August 14th. That'd at least give you one crit from the group, and some help on getting it better for the contest (which, trust me, we ALL need. ). If you do decide to jump in, add your name to the list in a repost and get ready for some fun. Either way, luck with your story for this quarter.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
stammsp, I did indeed get it. I even emailed you back about it! geez, my brain needs a tune up. Anyway, my apologies, and thanks again for the crit.
Dan, I got yours, will try to get it back to you by this weekend. Icared, if you've got something you want critted, feel free to send it along.
Posted by Icared (Member # 8091) on :
WriterDan I have just sent you my comments on your story.
Thanks a lot for the offer, guys. But I am far behind on the schedule, I just started writing the first draft and this upcoming month does not look promising. I will just try to make sure I have this by the end of September and catch up to you for 2009 Q1.
Good luck with your stories.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Icared, there's actually another group here that is working for the September deadline, instead of an August one like us. They're posted here too, and I know that they're in need of a few more people. Check em out if they're more on par with your time line.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Um. Can I join this group? I'm going to submit for Q4, but I realize I'm jumping in late. I should have my story written, and hopefully somewhat clean, by the time you send out your second batch in early August. I could also provide some feedback that might, hopefully, prove useful.
That cool?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Perfectly frigid, Zero. Make sure to note the updated 2nd crit deadline (Aug 14th). So, the current listing is:
Crit&Submit: Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin AWSullivan snapper Zero
Crit Only: stammsp darklight
Unknown: cklabyrinth (No submit, open to crit?) KayTi (Our group or regular submission group?)
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Sorry for the delay folks. I've decided to rewrite my 4Q story in first person/past PoV. Unfortunately it took me six thousand words to figure that out.
Gimme a couple days to crank out a story and I'll get it to you.
In the mean time, send me your stories and I'll gladly give them a look.
Cheers,
Anthony
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Ok, I sent my draft out to everyone except cklabyrinth and KayTi who do not have their email links activated.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks!
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I know this is late to be asking, but may I join? My story is one I wrote in one week and am now polishing. I'm willing to critique your stories in return. I am a bit of a harsh critic, I realize. I focus on somethings other people ignore. Well I think some of you already know that. I've critiqued your stories in the past.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Glad to have you along, arriki. New list:
Crit&Submit: Writer Dan Bent Tree Annepin AWSullivan snapper Zero arriki
Crit Only: stammsp darklight
Unknown: cklabyrinth (No submit, open to crit?) KayTi (Our group or regular submission group?)
Next round of stories for second (or first ! ) crits should go out by Aug 14th. Try to make it. We're pushing for the Aug 30th mail-in deadline. Let all try our best to make it.
And just a quick send out for all those that gave input on the first draft of my entry: wow, thanks. I really have a good grasp on where things are going now, and I really didn't feel like I did when the last line of that draft was out. Thanks again.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
So..how do I do this? Send my story out to everyone on the list? Or wait for a "go ahead" from each one?
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited August 06, 2008).]
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Go ahead and send it out to anyone who has indicated they will crit. I think WriterDan has a list in his previous post.
Anthony
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Yeah, just send it to everyone on the list, arriki. And also, if that's actually the title of your story in that last post, I'd suggest editing it out. Public forum and all, so stating that might be cause for it getting dq'ed if...ahem, when, you make it to the final round. Looking forward to reading your story.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I emailed the 8 of you. so far I've had one bounce -- Bent tree is your email -- scottbenttree@hotmail.com
arriki
I want to apologize. I've been through this four times and I'm still finding typos. I'm sorry. I have trouble typing still. It's driving me batty. I'm not used to this.
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited August 06, 2008).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Don't worry about typos, arriki. For the most part what the critiques are for is high-level stuff, like plot, character arcs, feel of the melieu, etc. Some will point out typos (hopefully in gentleness... ), but really we're working for the big stuff here. Will get my crit back to you as soon as I can.
Dan
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
arriki, I don't have a story from you. Did you send a copy to me?
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
And I couldn't open it. Could you save it as a .doc, .rtf, or .txt instead?
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Same here. can't open Word Perfect files. RTF or plain text is fine.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I can open it -- but only at home, where I can't get much reading/writing/editing done. rtf, pdf, or doc are all better formats for me. I prefer rtf, I think that is the easiest.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
BTW I don't know who all has read AW Sullivan's yet, (I'm a little over half way - reading it right now) and it's gooooood. Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:Bent tree is your email -- scottbenttree@hotmail.com
arriki, there's a d between scott and benttree.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Thanks, Kathleen.
Darklight -- I sent one to thequester@hotmail.com. Is that address correct?
Also, I sent them all in WordPerfect. I can resend in rtf -- I sent wrtier dan ahd annepin new copies (revised from stammsp's critique)
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Sorry for the mix-up on formatting manuscripts, arriki. I'll be sure to put something into the header of our WotF group discussions in the future.
Also, as a heads up to everyone out there, Open Office (free on the internet) DOES open up word Perfect documents. So, if you ever find yourself in this situation again, you could just use that program. Just found out myself. And of course, it was too late to make a difference. Doh! Thanks for putting up with us, arriki.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
When does my email box start filling up with stuff for critique?
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited August 06, 2008).]
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Arriki, did I send you mine? I don't recall. I'll send it along if not. Let me know.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I haven't received it, anthony
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Sent! Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
arriki, it's the_quester. The best thing to do, is to click on the little profile symbol then hilight then copy and paste the email address into your email browser. That's how I do it.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I still want to read/review a copy. But I can't open word perfect files. Can you re-send it as an rtf?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Arriki, the deadline for our next round of crits is this next Thursday the 14th of August. So, you should start getting the bulk of other people's submissions around then. That's the date that I'm shooting for anyways. I know that some people will get them done early, and newbies to the group like you and Zero have sent yours out as soon as joining the group. So, there is a method to our madness. It's just not readily apparent sometimes. lol.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Several people had mentioned some other published author (Sheffield?) who had written about fish on europa. I haven't read him or any of his works. I can't help it if someone else has written on the same idea. I have my version and I'm not going to casually toss it away. There are no truly new stories. It's depressing to hear about it, but that's life. I still think Harry and John have a good story all on their own.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
There's only one problem with that. Kathy Wentworth (THE coordinating judge and lone individual that takes the thousands of WotF entries each quarter and narrows them down to the top eight stories) has said that for the WotF writing contest, the single most important part of any entry is its originality. Nothing else. Yeah, it needs to be written well, and the story needs to make sense; you need believable characters, etc, etc. But its originality that will get you an award. So, if you have a great story, that's all well and good, but it probably won't go very far in THIS contest. I think that's the main reason why people would have mentioned Sheffield. Just my two cents though.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
just how close is his?
If it's just about looking for life on Europa I don't see a problem. Mine is about some scientists trying to live off grants.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
So, before you guys do any more critiquing on this story -- what should I do? Workshop another story? One about a vanishing basement?
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Arriki, have you read the story in question?
I have. I really enjoyed it. I still haven't received and updated copy of yours. I couldn't open the Word Perfect version.
the story in question had a specific style and situation that might not be at all related to yours. It might work. I recommend giving his a read before I scrapped my story.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I don't have a copy or know where to find one. I'm not sure of the author even. 'what is the title or where it was published...just you guys saying it even exists.
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited August 08, 2008).]
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Ok... I just read up and I realize now that we might be talking about two different stories. I'm thinking of the short story written by Jeff Carlson in the latest WotF Anthology. It can be purchased at the link below.
It is a story about finding life on Europa. Well... thats not what it is really about but that is the backdrop.
Hope this helps.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I have that -- #23. I was not impressed with The Frozen Sky. A matter of taste, mayb. It's not anywhere near the same story. And mine is humorous.
Still the subject matter is a bit too close, Perhaps I should wait another quarter? Submit the one about the basement now?
Would you guys read that?
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I'm going to go ahead with Fish Story.
I have updated a couple of problems that keep coming up in critiques, so If you haven't read it yet, you can ask for the new version.
Sorry for the trouble.
arriki
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Arriki, I think going ahead with the fish story is a great idea.
I sort of waffled on my story last quarter. I was afraid it would be dismissed out of hand because of its similarities to Bladerunner. I still don't know if it has or hasn't, since I haven't heard back from them yet. Nevertheless, I decided I didn't really care. I wrote the story because that was the story I wanted to tell. I wrote it with passion because I believed in it. If it doesn't strike them as original, well, I'm still entering this quarter, and likely the quarter after that, etc etc. In other words, I decided it was a risk I wanted to take.
I've read your story (I'll send my crit along shortly). I haven't read the story people are referring to. Likely there are many stories about life on Europa. I haven't read so many stories that tackle the subject matter you did. Therefore, I think yours is original, and you should go for it.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
After (another) rough week, I have completed the critiques of AWSullivan and arriki's stories (they will be back with you by the end of the day) AND completed my story! Yippee! I'm feeling much better about it than I was a week ago.
So... looking for readers, if anyone's willing. Annepin, I will send a copy your way as you said you would read. Thanks
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Ariki and darklight, Please send me your stories. I can accept any MSWord readable format. Plain text works too.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
darklight, I'll read. too
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
Right, I have a fourth Q entry that's close and needs a look over by fresh eyes. Willing to trade or jump into whatever you have going on here.
Tracy
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
I'll take a look at it, Tracy. Send it over, I'll get it back to you in the next few days.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Same here, Tracy. Send it over.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Me, too
So when do we start the '09 first quarter stories? I think mine will be that China Station I put the the 13 lines up for critique.
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited August 13, 2008).]
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Me too!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Hey all. Been out for a while. At a conference for supercomputing. Won't be back to real life for a few more days, but wanted to pop my head up really quick and give a blurb.
I'm open for your story, Tracy.
Arriki, if things go according to prior schedules, the first round of crits for 1st Q 2009 (26th year of WotF) for the early submission group (this one) will be due on Oct 7th. Also, the book I referenced in my crit of your story was Cold as Ice, by Charles Sheffield. He has submarines going into the Europan ocean through a huge hole in the ice, and they find life in the depths. Sounds like you've decided on what to do though. Glad to see that.
Finally, after getting another crit back this last Monday, I've decided to essentially re-write my entire story. In doing this, I'm not only responding to your crits, but also trying to do a better job according to my own strictures. Hopefully, the new incarnation will be better. I think that it will be. As is, I'm doubting that I'll have the new first draft up for critting by the next deadline (tomorrow, the 14th), but should be done by the end of the month. So, I'm planning on sending my story for the quarter in by mid-September, and thus, if it's okay, I'll send my new story out for a crit in about two weeks. Hope this is okay with everyone. If not, let me know. Otherwise, look for mine to come through your inboxes about the time that you're all sending your entries off.
Luck to you all.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Dan, you can send me your story then. There's only a few of us over at the regular Q04 group (not the early submission group), and that's more in line with our time table anyway. That goes for anyone else too. If anyone is having trouble meeting the early submission dates, pop on over to the other thread and send it to the regular Q04 group.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
WriterDan, I've missed the deadline, too. I've been straddling both groups. I plan on sending my second draft in the next couple weeks, but I'm open to reading anyone else's, anytime.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Sent out my Second draft this afternoon.
Thanks for reading, everyone.
If I owe you a crit let me know. Currently, the only person who I think I still need to do is darklight.
Anthony
[This message has been edited by AWSullivan (edited August 15, 2008).]
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I realize I'm late in coming, but I will be sending out my draft shortly.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I think I've been through all the critiques you've sent me for "Fish Story." Any still unsent?
Whose masterpieces have I not critiqued aside from darklight's?
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
I don't think you've done mine. I'm still thinking about writing a second draft. Give me a week or so, I'll get there. Of course, I think I said that a week ago!
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
So who, exactly, should I be sending my draft out to?
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Lol! Okay, this is the last list that was posted, with some adjustments. Folks, please edit as necessary but if you do plese copy and paste the entire list into your post so we have a running list of names that we can easily reference.
Crit&Submit: Writer Dan Annepin AWSullivan snapper Zero arriki darklight?
Crit Only: stammsp
Unknown: cklabyrinth (No submit, open to crit?) KayTi (Our group or regular submission group?) tnwilz? Christopher? ChrisOwens?
I think at this point the borders between the early submission and "regular" folks has blurred, so I suggest we combine the two, at least until the early folks start sending their stories out.
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited August 20, 2008).]
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
OK I did it. I sent it out. Let me know if you didn't get it. And get back to me whenever. It's my revised version, so, hopefully, it will read smoothly with only minimal mistakes.
And let me just say, I appreciate you all taking the time to read it and give me honest feedback. And I enjoy reading your stories and sharing my thoughts. We have a good community here, I think that's why we do well.
[This message has been edited by Zero (edited August 20, 2008).]
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Sounds good to me, annepin. I'm a little blurry-headed today, so I'm glad to see that you took care of this. Had a friend of mine talk me into getting in a round of golf (9 holes) this morning at 6:30. Ugh. I am NOT a morning person. And to think, I paid twenty bucks for that. Wow. My new story is coming along. Hoping to have it done by August-end. If anyone doesn't have a critique from me, send it along. I've done five critiques so far, but I'm just a bit too hazy to figure out exactly who those five people are. Ha! Let's see my development code try to outwit me today.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited August 20, 2008).]
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
My copy of zero's story came in one long paragraph. Anyone else experience the same?
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I re-sent it as an rtf. And that a pdf can come garbled still confuses me. But please let me know if the new one doesn't work, or if you haven't received it.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
received it and the formatting looks fine.
However...I think you started off with a not very evocative description. Were you setting the mood? But a quiet mood rarely draws readers on deeper into the story.
Some write prose that is too dense, and some write it too light. On the basis of just the first page, it seems to me that you are the latter. Just my opinion. I'll go through the story later. Right now I gotta go earn money.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
I'm in, but won't have my first draft ready (but it'll be a solid draft, I've worked the heck out of the first 2500 words at the very least) until a few days after the kids start back at school. Hopefully before Sept 1, but probably right around there.
My ability to crit will open wide then, too - so keep me in mind for next round/drafts not ready til late August.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Yes the prose is a bit tight. At least, how I think you're defining it. But I chose that style intentionally.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Updated list:
Crit&Submit: Writer Dan Annepin AWSullivan snapper Zero arriki KayTi tnwilz
Crit Only: stammsp
Unknown: cklabyrinth (No submit, open to crit?) darklight? Christopher? ChrisOwens?
So, it looks as though most of us in this group will be doing work on our stories well into September, and we won't be sending them off as soon as initially planned. I do, however, think that it's still a good idea to have a group that is at least "striving" to get their entries turned in early. So, crits are open this quarter. We're all in this together. Send out your stories when they're ready, and well try to get back to the early structure next quarter. Looking forward to more fun reading. Later all.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Alright, I finally got my story ready to send to you guys, but now I'm confused. We've combined groups? Who should I send it to? I don't need a line by line. At this point, I just need a general comment read-through.
And whatever group I'm in, you guys send me your stories. Let me know what kind of reading you need.
Chris
NOTE: I just sent my story to annepin because she was part of the other, regular time table group.
[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited August 22, 2008).]
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
I still own annepin a crit, when she's ready. I'm a bit confused between this group and the other Q4...
I'm thinking of letting the story sit until next quarter or two, and tackle the rough draft with a fresh mind. I've switched back to a fantasy story that seems to have more promise. I'm not sure if it'll be done before 9/30. I haven't even finished the first draft.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Yeah... I'm working on it! I'm going to have my next draft out by the end of August. I've been writing a lot for work lately, which makes it hard for me to write fiction.
At this point the groups have sort of devolved into a free for all. There's no appreciable difference between this and the other group. I think we've each set different deadlines for ourselves. I suggest each person make sure they get what they need, be conscientious in returning crits, and not worry too much about which group they're in.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Yeah, free-for-all is the right word.
I suspect I've gotten just about all the feedback I'm going to on my story. Baring something devastating I'll be sending mine out late next week.
I don't think I can make it any better. That doesn't mean it's brilliant, mind you. It just means that I have made it as good as my skills will allow.
I know I owe a couple of you crits yet. I'll be working on them tonight and tomorrow.
Anthony
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Alright, seems how we're all kinda crashing each others party (the two groups suddenly combining), if anyone wants a fresh read of their story, let me know. Also, anyone who is willing to read my story--general read through--let me know and I'll send it your way.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I'm open Chris. Send it my way. I still have a little ways to finish mine. But be ready. Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Hmmm. This is a problem I have in real life. As there are at least two surnamed Chris(topher) in this group, if not more, it might be a good idea to be more specific.
[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited August 22, 2008).]
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Just to set expectations - while I will be open to critting for others soon (T-5 days and counting!) I don't expect to have time to crit 8 or 10 other stories. I give pretty detailed crits, they're not for everybody, but I find that when I notice something I have to comment on it (and I type fast so I often write in a lot of general comments.) So...anyway, they take me a while, a couple hours isn't unusual for a WOTF-length project.
I suggest as we move forward with the combo group, that people try to do their best to pair up - I'll crit yours, you crit mine. People who are open and available to crit should always say so, perhaps those of you who submit early will be interested in critting even if you don't need the return favor, but for the rest of us it might be the best way to try to make sure things are even. I also get frustrated when I send out for crits to 5 people and only get 2 replies back. I have been guilty of non-reply myself, so I know things happen, but I just wanted to mention it. Hopefully we can avoid this within this group since everyone is working toward the same goal.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
KayTi, you want to exchange crits? I'm close to finished with "Fish Story." I just ran it past my tecno friends. They said they knew someone who was planning something very much like what I wrote about on Europa even.
Hard to get ahead of these guys. I think "China Station" is beyond them still.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
arikki - sounds great, just need these first few days (Weds-Fri probably) while the kids get to school to check and see what gives with my current draft. There are a few scenes I left at a description-level that I know I need to dramatize. It won't take me long. If you want to send along, knowing I won't be able to look in detail until later this coming week, please do. My email info hasn't changed, but holler here if you need it (I don't post it.)
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
It's been a while. Send it to me again if you don't mind.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
A W Sullivan,
I am nearly done with your story. To the rest of you I will probably bow out of anymore crits. I already sent mine 7 weeks ago and I am hip deep in obligations. Unless any of you are willing to do an early, early critique for my 2009 Q01 submission.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Someone in the group mentioned "negative criticism."
I thought that was odd. "Positive criticism" is an oxymoron.
All criticism is negative. If the comments are positive...isn't that what we call "praise" --?????
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited August 26, 2008).]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
The idea that "criticism" = "negative" is a connotation, I believe, not a denotation (respectively, the meaning something has come to have, as opposed to the original definition).
"Criticism" of a written work is a form of analysis, and is not necessarily negative.
Because of the negative connotation, however, I prefer to use the term "critique" and (like Humpty Dumpty) have it mean "feedback," positive as well as negative.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I usually avoid any positive/negative stuff and go for:
constructive criticism
Comments about things that are not done well enough, that if changed will make the story better. The tone is the thing that does it, I think. You can be negative in tone when giving a critique, and it's best to avoid that if at all possible. So, stay positive, but try to point things out that can be done better so that the author can make the story great.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
I do think pointing out things that the author does well is just as important as pointing out things that don't work, though in a way harder. I supposed that could fall under the umbrella of "constructive" criticism.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
I personally have found a wide array of critical voices among the Hatrack community. I've found that if I find a critique to be rude or tactless I will put it aside and come back to it later. Usually I either see that they weren't being that rude but rather I was being defensive, or I find that they are lacking tact and I can just read between the lines.
It can be hard to convey criticism without seeming negative. Sprinkling comments about what a writer is doing right isn't just blowing smoke, but is encouraging them that they are at least partially on the right track.
Anthony
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Getting this back on track...
I think I have my final draft ready if anyone is interested in readying before I send it off. Many of you have read the many iterations of this story and I'm grateful. I won't be send this last one out to everyone as I've already asked much of you.
If you are interested in reading the final draft then please reply here.
Thanks!
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
AWSullivan -- have I critiqued yours yet?
I've lost track between the ones here and my Critters critiques.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Yeah, you critiqued the first draft on the 7th or August.
Anthony
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Alrighty, My fourth quarter story is away.
Good luck everyone!
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I've got "Fish Story" all printed out, mailing envelopes addressed and ready to go. All I have to do now is get someone around here to go over the mss and make certain that the printer did not skip printing any lines or make any other printer errors. Unlike last time.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Arriki, I wish I were close enough to help ya. Your Fish Story is marvelous. I hope I'm the runner up to your first prize.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
Aw...that's so sweet, Anthony.
Good luck to you. too.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Okay, so the first draft of the second incarnation of my story is finally finished. I'm sending it out now to those people on the most recent list. I'm even done a whole day before promised. Man do I deliver. lol Congrats to those that have gotten their stories off already! You made the deadline for the group and are a good example for me. Now off to the next one.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
arriki, I'll have a look this weekend, or so is my plan. Sorry I haven't had the chance to get to it yet.
Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
This Is it too late to join in?
I want to submit my story, "Silver in their Hair." I've had it for a while, so hopefully the mistakes are few.
In any case, would anyone like to swap stories with me? If so, just email me yours and I'll send mine to you.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
I've already mailed mine out BoredCrow but I'll read it if you wanna send it over.
Anthony
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
When are you going to open the next quarter's topic?
I'm already debating whether to polish and submit "The Vanishing Basement" or "Cory Falls From Grace." The former is a fun sort of juvenile adventure. The latter is a very dark, very adult fantasy.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Very dark, very adult... sounds like a fun read.
Anthony
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Okay, is anyone missing a crit from me? If so, please let me know. I guess I haven't gotten my story out for a second round yet. Sigh...
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Then work on your story and don't worry about our crits, annepin. There are enough people in the group that we'll be able to cover it. Even if you do give great critiques. Now go write.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Thanks, Writer Dan! Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So, I've only received one crit back from the initial send out that I did for my Q04 story. I've actually been drafting quite a bit after that one crit came back (thanks to arriki), and so I wanted to put it out that if you haven't started reading my story yet, to just wait for the second draft. There were a lot of things that I had to fix and clarify. I'm pushing for a new send out prior to this weekend. Was up till 2:30 this morning working on it, and I'm dragging today. Will work to have it done though. Luck to everyone.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Okay, so I finally got my next draft out. I've sent it to a bunch of people, but I don't know if I got everyone. If you didn't get an email recently from me with a story, and you're open to crit, let me know and I'll send it over to you. KayTi, I only have your email on my school computer, so I'll send you a copy on Monday. And Annepin, I didn't send my story to you either. If you find time, let me know. Otherwise, your time is yours. You'll have to exucse me any mistakes that I made. It is 3am after all. I think I'm going to go pass out now. Hapy writing/drafting/critiquing all.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Dude, go ahead and send it to me.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I received it today but, as it is the 13th, I'll hold off until Monday before commenting. I'm superstitious, you see.
I ordered a new book. Writing for Emotional Impact. Anyone else reading it?
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited September 13, 2008).]
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
I don't think I got it WD. Send it over.
Anthony
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I'm also still willing to read and crit.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Alright, annepin. My arm has been sufficiently twisted. It's yours.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I guess I'm having some email troubles this morning. Some screwy ones. I'm sending emails from one account, and getting "Errors" from that email on a different account (email sent to no one...). So, I don't know if my attempts to get through to people today is working or not. I tried twice to send out my new story to annepin, Zero, Anthony, and KayTi. If any of you guys didn't get it, let me know and I'll try to send it again once my email is working. Then again, if you got it let me know, so I'll stop bugging people. Sorry for the mess, but it's really not my fault this time...
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Still no dice Dan. If you need a different email from me or something I can get you one.
Anthony
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Yeah, I haven't received anything yet, either. You could try sending to anne(at)cheesediaries(dot)com or annaomi(at)earthlink(dot)net.
What error message are you getting?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I'll try again when I get back to the office tomorrow morn... uh, in a handful of hours. Up writing my entry for Q01 2009. The error that I was getting was the typical "MAil Subsystem Delivery Failure" message. The funky thing though was that I was sending it from my writerdangaidin email, and the error message was coming back to me through another personal email that I have. True, they're both gmail, but I just thought that was weird. Anyhow, I'll try again tomorrow. I meant to give it a go before I left to go home, but I had a breakthrough in my computer code and got so excited about it that I totally forgot. Will see what happens and let you know. Thanks for the responses. Ha, ha. And congrats again, annepin.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited September 16, 2008).]
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
I got it Dan, finally. I'll try and get you a crit back quickly.
Anthony
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Hey, if anyone is willing, I need a couple people who haven't read Loser Drummer yet (only Dan and Annie have), to give me a quick read through. Anyone else who hasn't sent their story in yet, let me know if you need it read a final time. I can read it over the weekend.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I can read but I won't be able to do it until Monday. But otherwise I'm more than happy to.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Thanks Zero. Monday would be fine. I'll sent it your way.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Heads up for those of us (including me) that haven't sent in their Q04 2008 entry.
TWELVE DAYS AND COUNTING!
Time to buckle down and get these things finished. Looking forward to starting a new quarter and a new story with everyone.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Dan, I'll get your story to you tonight or tomorrow.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Dan, I just finished the newest crit and sent it to you. Good story. Nice work.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Ah, hope none of you took my last post to be a stab to get a critique for me done more quickly. Didn't realize that it might have looked like that until now. Completely wasn't meant to be. Just wanted to give some good encouragement to everyone. Sorry, my timing was bad. Anyone else have their stories ready for a critique? Send em my way. I'm ready. Thanks all.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
No, I didn't. But it did remind me! Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
Anyone else willing to take a quick look at my story?
And anyone who needs a crit, feel free to send it my way. I should have time this weekend to read stories.
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
BC, if I haven't already critiqued your story I'll give it a read.
~Anthony
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
BC and Dan I have your stories and will read them....soon! this weekend at the latest. Sorry for the long delay. I will return the favor with my latest story around the same time and appreciate your feedback.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Okay WD, sent you your story back. Please let me know you've received it.
I'm open for critting anyone's--just send it through! I can probably turn them around in a day or so, too.
Let me know if you want just a line-edit, as opposed to a broader scope one.
(oh, and ping me if you've sent me one and I haven't returned it yet.)
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited September 19, 2008).]
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Boredcrow and Christopher, I haven't read either of your stories yet, so please send them over and I'll critique them over the weekend.
I finished writing my replacement story a couple of nights ago, yeh! I'm not going to bother with asking for critiques, just going to read through, look for anything glaring, and send it off, then get writing my next story.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
I'm in need of another look or two at my entry for 4Q - does anyone have the time? Story currently stands at 6100 words.
Thanks!
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Send it my way.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
KayTi, I'll look it over.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
I'm still coming with mine too, KayTi. Will do my best to get it done today. Just slipped my mind. I apologize. Too much on my plate right now.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
S'ok Dan - I usually look for 3-5 crits at this stage so I'm just shopping for a few more readers. Zero, I sent last night, let me know if it didn't come. Arriki, appreciate the offer, your feedback is always helpful. Sending it now.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Tomorrow's it peoples! Don't forget! Don't forget!
Hope my crit got to you okay, KayTi. Sent it last Thursday.
Luck everyone!
Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
I just got back from the post office. Eep! I'm nervous! (this is my first submission to WOTF).
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
LOL, I'm making my final edits tonight. Down to the wire girl, I tell ya. Bored - good luck! Same to everyone. Great contest if nothing else it forces you to write a solid polished short story four times a year. While that may not be up to the production rate of those who write one a week or one a month, it's given me a nice little library of stories I'm proud of.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I got mine out saturday and have been crossing my fingers ever since.
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
Just mailed mine off this afternoon. I think we wrote some good stuff this quarter. It will be interesting to see how we do.
Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
Thanks, Kayti! And indeed, good luck to everyone.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Yes, good luck all.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Think I beat ya this quarter, KayTi. Doing MY final draft right now. Edits are down to 10-15 per page this time through. Coming close. Shooting to mail of my final before the 4:45 post office deadline this afternoon. Ah, the sweet smell of napalm in the morning. TO THE TRENCHES!!!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
And it's off!!!
With a whole ten minutes to spare before the postal deadline.
Freak, I gotta stop doing things like this. Hope I can get closer to my goal next quarter.
Luck all.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Oh geez!
I got to send mine off! Where's an envelope? Do I have enough ink? Whats the address? How many stamps do I need? How much money is enough for a good bribe? I always forget that one.
Ooops! That's right. I sent mine on July 2nd (I missed the last one)
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Good luck, good luck! I'm feeling a little envious--I didn't get it together this time. But I'm gonna get cracking on next quarter!
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
OK, Dan, I'll give you this one, but you only beat me by about 30 mins. I was at the post office at 4:20, MS in hand (on the fancy spanky new heavier and whiter paper I got at the office supply store after the last MS preparation discussion over the summer), envelopes addressed.
I am still wondering, though, where my reject from last quarter is. My understanding is that all the entries have been judged, I didn't win anything but haven't seen my MS come back to me yet. Hmm, wonder what's in the mailbox today...
Anne - fifty lashes! Get cracking my friend.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Mine when out on the 26th, for the third entry running. Not intentional, but that seems to be the date some higher force wants me to post it on.
Incidently, got an email today from WotF saying my entry did not win the third quater.
Good luck to all that entered this quarter. One of us is going to win it soon!
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Mmm...just got another email from WotF saying my third quarter entry did not win. This time though, instead of Dear Contestant, it was Dear Louise, and mentioned the title of my story.
Anyone else get this kind of email?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Nothing ever so specific. You must just be special. Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
How long does it usually take for some kind of confirmation that they even received it? And does that come via mail or e-mail?
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
Zero,
Usually 3 weeks or so from the date sent. However, I sent my story out in August and still hadn't received a response as of the deadline so I emailed Joni and she confirmed that it had been received.
Anthony
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Thanks. Oh, and how long does it usually take for them to send you back your manuscipt with a note entitled "Nice Try, Bub." ?
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
If you sent in your story near the end of the deadline, expect to hear back near the end of the *next* deadline. They are earlier some quarters, but not always.
The HMs and Finalists/Semis were announced a few weeks ago - just before the Sept 30 deadline.
While I still haven't received my MS back, I'm a no-show by virtue of not being on the HM or Fin/semi list. It's just a matter of getting back that "thanks" paper. (and scratching head to figure out what went wrong with the story where the speculative element is right up front and ... sigh.)
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Well, I finally got my response back from WotF: Honorable Mention. Man, that just seemed like it took forever. Has everyone else gotten theirs already?
