1) Exchange our WOTF stories before the next quarter's deadline. We need to decide how for out. Something like two (maybe three) weeks would probably work--enough time for the author to consider and make the suggested changes.
Depending on how many people participate, I think it would be fine for everyone to get everyone's stories. If, say, we have five people, that would only involve reading four other stories.
2) The level of critiquing would be up to the individual.
If you want to do a more involved line edit, fine. If you just read through the story and give general thoughts and impressions, that's fine too.
---------
It may or may not be too late to get this started before the next deadline (Sept. 30th), but we DO need to get this going. Plenty of people here at Hatrack are trying to place in the contest. It only makes sense that we should help each other out.
Chris.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited September 26, 2007).]
How about something like this:
First draft crits returned by October 31
Second drafts sent to members by Nov 15
Second draft crits returned by November 30
Third drafts sent by December 10
Third draft crits returned by December 20
December 30 Deadline!
Is two weeks for writing and critiquing too much or too little? The end gets a little tight, too, but by then the drafts should be smoother.
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited September 27, 2007).]
*First drafts sent to members by Nov 7th.
This is a general read through. It should focus on characterization, ploting, and maybe general comments about writing style etc. It is a waste of time to line edit first drafts when so much of it is probably going to be rewritten again anyway.
*First draft crits returned by Nov 21st.
*Second drafts sent to members by Dec 7th.
This is for line edit and very specific comments. Of course we can also comment on anything we felt didn't get fixed even after our suggestions on the first draft.
*Second drafts returned by Dec. 21st.
I don't think third drafts are necessary. When I've done this with other people in the past, third draft crits are usually just to catch typos. Most of us have someone around who can do that. We need the "writers" comments more on the first two drafts.
I know this suggested time line might be pushing it too close to the end for some people. But, I need a good break after each deadline to not think about short-stories. I use the time to keep pluggin' away on my novel.
Thinking out loud, another idea which might work for everyone is starting crits earlier. Let's say Oct. 15 or Nov. 1st. Anyone can send their story out at that time and can simply state what type of crit they want. 1) General story read through 2) Line edit 3) Specific for typos...whatever.
Then, people who write early can sent it out early. And those of us who write finish later can send it out later knowing they will probably only have time to get the 1) General read through or 2) the line edit.
Oh, and another deadline. Let's say we have this figured out in the next week.
WriterDan, I'd like to have some guidelines, rather than just a "whenever" thing. There's some fudge room, obviously, but it's good to have a goal to make sure things go smoothly, and so I can plan my schedule.
)I only do 1 draft. I write one closed-door draft, pass it off for critique, edit the draft, then pass it off for a final, polish critique. Then I let my wife tear the hell out of it. Now she is brutal! (I think if she liked a single sentence that I wrote, it'd be because she thought I was quoting someone else.)By then, if it ain't worthy, it'll never be.
So, essentially, I'm saying that we should ony need two critique dates. I find, that if I read something too many times, I just see the unchanged things. Twice is actually pushing it.
By my count, there are six of us. How long are each of us figuring our story will be? I'm hoping to keep it in the 5-7,000 word range. (I often go longer then have to trim.) The reason that I ask is because I want to have mine sent in by Dec. 7th. If no one else is thinking along those lines, I may only be in the first-round of critiquing.
Hopefully, that means that once you all go through it, it should be ready for polish--hence I will have more time to help out with any of you who need it.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited October 08, 2007).]
Even though Nov 7th seems so far away, I'm panicking. The first draft is very rough. I hate to show people my dirty laundry like that.
My Q407 was turned down. I thought it might be--the day after I sent it, I learned that there has to be a more obvious "speculative" element. That attempt had no obvious magic or monsters, it was too mundane.
This one's sci-fi/space opera. So, there won't be that problem.
So, I'm curious IAB, did you get a letter back with your entry, or just the manuscript. Well, I'm assuming that you get your manuscript mailed back to you. I always do. And of the three entries that I've made, I've had two come back with nothing, and one come back with a rejection letter. That one (3Q-07), just happened to be the one that had an obvious speculative element early on in the story. Wondering if my first two were dumped onto the rejection pile without even being seriously read (for more than a page) because of that issue. Just trying to figure things out.
Planning on having my first draft done by the end of the month. Want to be able to spend all of November on my novel for NaNoWriMo. Then it'll be back to Dames and Doughnuts (or whatever this is going to end up being called) for Dec. Anyone else getting close to being finished with the first draft?
Anyway, I'm still happy to crit stuff, so go ahead and send to my email addy whenever.
And as a point of interest...honorable mentions for WotF 4Q2007 have already been sent out. Time to set up the old tent by the mailbox... Luck to all those that have something in.
Anyway who want to swap, I'm up for it...
But now of course I'm chewing my nails down to the quick because I never got one of those handy "we received your submission" emails. I wonder if it got lost in the mail. My mail carrier hates me, or at least I'm left to conclude that since she leaves my mailbox open all the time, here in the Wind Tunnel that is my street. I sometimes find parts of my mail 3 houses away, which on large lots can be as much as 500 feet down the block. Yikes.But maybe it just slipped through the cracks. Since I hadn't gotten around to emailing the general contest email with a "did you get my submission" request, maybe I'll just sit tight another week or two and let this ulcer continue to form. 
Then for next cycle...IB, I think I'm going to use my Apocalyptic Taco Mix story too, which is a little amusing since you and I appear to be tied right now. But it's a story I had a lot of fun with and is somewhat well fleshed out. With Nano sucking my brain dry this month, I'm not sure I'll be able to come up with anything else before Dec 31.
Meanwhile, I'd be happy to trade crits and polish review rounds with a few others (I'd have to say some smaller number like 2-3, since I found the Apocalyptic Taco Mix 9 crits daunting. It's my own fault, I tend to write lengthy feedback, but so be it.) So - is that something that's on the table for this group? Exchanging stories within small groups? I think there's some benefit to that, too, because then perhaps folks would be amenable to reading cleaned-up versions, subsequent drafts, etc. I know I benefit from rewriting a section, then submitting it back to the person who told me it was whack, to ask them "hey - did I fix that part where the evil robot monkeys went on a hayride, or is it still too melodramatic?"
ANYWAY - let me know! And dan, still LOL at the wheelies.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 08, 2007).]
I didn't realize I'd my old email address in my profile. I've since updated it: chris.owens@yahoo.com
I'm trying to leave hotmail altogether...
) I see your point about too many critiques. However, if you focus on the redundancies of the multitude of critiques, you'll cement the real problems. The differences--that sometimes seem to tear out every bit of it--are personal quirks. You should know that it's all in the patterns.WriterDan, I got your email, I'll send you out mine shortly.
I'm letting mine cool off right now, working on a different project (a collaboration with a fellow Hatracker) while my brain adjusts. Hopefully next week, I can restart, using the first draft as an outline.
Cool either way, it's been an awesome process. To clarify, it's the process of me WRITING 8 or 9 crits that is daunting. I am a feedback hound, I love lots of crits because it becomes REALLY clear what works and what doesn't, and where I should spend my energy.But, I'd like to be in anyway, but I will probably have to sit out the first round because, like I said, Nano is sucking my soul dry this month. (in a good way, but when you find yourself shopping for carpel tunnel relief measures, you know at least your wrists need a break...)
Meanwhile, did you guys see that the winners were posted on Nov 6 I think? Still waiting to see if mine will be returned to me (I include SASE, but since they didn't acknowledge receipt of my MS, maybe it never got there...)
Congrats again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_%28burlesque_performer%29
I've received and returned a story from the following people:
IAB
ChrisOwens
Is anyone else entering a story? I'm still more than happy to go over a first draft copy whenever you get it done. And yes, maybe I do have ulterior motives with this one.
The second draft of my story is just as good as a first. After comments I got back from people (3 of you, thank you immensely) I wrote a second draft and kept (I think) approximately 15-20% of the material from the first draft.
So, I'm looking for people that are, for all intents and purposes, first readers. This won't be a line edit for me. For my first draft, I just sent out a copy of the story to everyone, but only got three responses back. So, I don't want to spam you anymore.
If you haven't already, make a post in this thread that says you will read first drafts and make a critique. If you don't make deadlines, apologize profusely (we all are busy people and are, actually, quite forgiving) and keep moving forward.
So, send me your stories, and I'll send you mine! It'll be great! Get writing people!
PS IAB -- I'll send you a copy of draft2 on Monday. We'll see if I did any better this time. I think I freaked myself out. lol.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 25, 2007).]
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 25, 2007).]
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 26, 2007).]
As I transition into my second draft, I'd really like to get a female perspective since the viewpoint character is female.
Of course, my wife's already read it, but she's neither an aspiring writer nor a serious genre reader. Besides, a spouse's comments are always suspect, being the literay equivelent to the answer to "Does this dress make me look fat?"
Here's to hoping...
(Note to self: don't accept any challenges without first completing your commitments.)
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 12, 2007).]
This is the part I hate. There are bound to be mistakes that slip through. 'Wither' instead of 'whither', ect... Time to read backwards or any other proofreading tricks that can be mustered.
To be safe, ship off probably would be better by Saturday if not earlier. While the post office motto is "Neither rain, nor snow..." it doesn't say anything about incompentence.
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited December 23, 2007).]
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 24, 2007).]
Good Luck, KayTi. Hopefully you sent it in.
And Good Luck, Dan, too--if you got it in the mail.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 28, 2007).]
Couldn't get mine done. The whole "change 1st person to 3rd person" (which I REALLY think was necessary to make it a viable option for a win/publication) put me too far out time-wise to get it done. I'm frustrated, but am planning on polishing it for submission somewhere else. Had a new idea for a short story, and I like it better than this last run. So, I'm going to dive into that one for 2008Q02. Speaking of, are we going to run the same gauntlets for this upcoming quarter? If so, we need some new deadlines. Going off of this last quarter's schedule this put us at:
Feb 7th: First drafts out for high-level crits
Mar 7th: Second drafts out for (hopefully by that point) line edits.
Let everyone take a lesson home from my 2008Q01 story -- don't rewrite your entire story three times and then decide on a POV change. How do these dates sound to everyone? Anyone planning on a swap this quarter let us know. And tell you what, to make things easy why don't we do a running list?
I'm in (WriterDan)
Anyone that wants to swap stories this quarter, list my name and your own in your reply. Next to respond, list our two names and then your own. Etc. Will make initial crit send outs easier, I think. Let's get busy. Later all. And luck!
Dan
ANYWAY - long story short, the NIGHT of Dec 30 I rewrote my entire apocalyptic taco mix story. I retitled it "All We've Got Left." Yeah, that was incredibly painful. I'm relatively sure it's a steaming pile of dung, but hey - I made a commitment to myself to write and submit. It definitely was the best story I had in the works.
In case you were curious as to why one would take on the suicidal mission of prepping a story the night before the deadline...well, I got creamed on the crits I received from here and elsewhere in late nov/early dec - sat on them a while to try to figure out what to do. It was good, meaty stuff about character motivations and plausibility of the setup and other things that needed to be addressed - I definitely agreed with all the crits. But procrastinated the work. Then got bogged down by family drama and used other outlets to escape/let my mind be. So I found myself on Dec 30 with my husband out for the night, kids in bed at a reasonable hour, and I worked til midnight and turned out something. <shrug> We'll see.
Clearly I was too late for crits of any sort from anyone, so I'm sure the whole thing is riddled with problems even after spell checks and read-throughs. Oh, and I discovered after I mailed it that I believe I neglected to do the proper paragraph formatting, so it might well come back unread. I prefer to work in a small font, single-spaced, one whitespace between each paragraph, I typically format it for pub immediately before submitting (that's a visual cue to me, too, that I've submitted something.) I remembered to switch fonts, double space, format the cover page correctly, and all that, but I don't think I remembered to indent the paragraphs. We'll see if that's enough to DQ.
ANYWAY - all this to say I think I've got what I need to behind me now, and need to get cracking on a Q2 entry. I need some inspiration, though. I'm thinking of taking a flash challenge from Liberty Hall from the summer that was a pretty good start/interesting idea and working with that, but it'll need to be retooled. I am also hoping to do some more LH challenges now that we're back into the new year, and maybe that will spawn some new ideas for me. My main projects for the new year are non-fiction, so I need an idea mill. 
Um, so what does that say for me? Count me in...sortof? I just can't take 30k of critting all at once - I tend to be verbose with my feedback, it takes me a while. That's my only concern/issue. I will try to check this spot more frequently and/or maybe we should trade emails and just do a small email chain for sending stories, so they could be sent whenever drafts are done.
I am really sorry I wasn't available for crits last time. Chris, I'd be happy to give you a chickview on your story even if just for hindsight. Let me know.
WriterDan
KayTi?
Annepin
If you want to join the crit group please cut and paste the list above and add your name. Check WriterDan's post above for details on deadlines and how-to.
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited January 03, 2008).]
Writer Dan,
Why did you switch to 3rd person? The vast majority of the stories in the latest anthology were in first person. Perhaps 1st is the new 3rd.
#
I'm thinking of taking the Q2 quarter off. I feel like I'm in the middle of a creative dry spell. While I'm playing with an idea, I'm not sure if I'll have anything of worth by then. Already, I feel a passive viewpoint character coming on...a death nail from the getgo.
ChrisO: Needed to move to 3rd person because of a POV issue. I had this guy inside another version of himself, but unable to do anything but watch what was going on and have his own unique thoughts. This idea seemed almost impossible to get across in first person, and most people (I got the general idea) had a difficult time understanding what was going on during those scenes. So, it'll have to be stuck for another time.
Snapper: Always room for another. I'll put you on the list.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited January 08, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited January 08, 2008).]