Hatrack River Writers Workshop: The Mute Dragon Lord / first 13/ fantasy / ss

This is topic The Mute Dragon Lord / first 13/ fantasy / ss in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=003386

Posted by honu (Member # 8277) on :

ver 1...

quote:
“OK, Lords Slandis and Bellino, my hall has guested you properly. Now what brings you here?” Nevin's father said with a scowl from the dining table.
“True, you've extended the proper courtesy, and it's perhaps rude of me to impose on you, but you see, I mean to challenge you,” Lord Slandis returned.
Nevin wondered if Lord Slandis had gone mad as he watched him wave the bandaged, blood-seeping stump where a hand once had been. His father was by far the most powerful dragon lord of the six on their island. Lord Slandis didn't stand a chance.
“Are you mad, man?” his father pointed at the stump.
“Lord Keathley, I challenge you for hall, horde, and holding
replied Lord Slandis.

ver 2....

quote:

Nevin wondered what his father would say to his adversaries now dinner was over. His father, Lord Keathley, and Lord Slandis had a history of enmity stretching back to their own childhoods.
“Lords Slandis and Bellino, my hall has guested you properly. What brings you here?” Nevin's father said with a scowl.
“True, you've extended courtesy, and it's rude of me to impose on you, I admit; but you see, I mean to challenge you,” Lord Slandis returned.
Had Lord Slandis gone mad? Nevin watched him wave the bandaged, blood-seeping stump where a hand once had been.
“Are you mad, man?” his father pointed at the stump. His father was by far the most powerful dragon lord of the six on

ver 3....

quote:
Nevin watched to see what his father would say to his guests now that dinner was over. His father, Lord Keathley, and Lord Slandis had a history of enmity stretching back to their own childhoods.
“Lords Slandis and Bellino, my hall has guested you properly. What brings you here?” Nevin's father said with a scowl.
“True, you've extended courtesy, and it's rude of me to impose on you, I admit; but you see, I mean to challenge you,” Lord Slandis returned.
Had Lord Slandis gone mad? Nevin watched him wave the bandaged, blood-seeping stump where a hand once had been.
“Are you mad, man?” his father pointed at the stump. His father was by far the most powerful dragon lord of the six on

ver 4....

quote:

“Lords Slandis and Bellino, my hall has guested you. Now, what brings you here?” Father said with a scowl from the dining table.
“True, you've extended courtesy, but you see, I challenge you,” Lord Slandis said.
“Are you mad, man?” Father pointed at Lord Slandis's bloody stump, where a hand had once been.
“Lord Keathley, I challenge you for hall, horde, and holdings said Lord Slandis.
“Lord Bellino talk some sense into your neighbor,” Father said as Lord Bellino raised his hands in a what can I do here gesture.
“Then you relinquish to me?” Lord Slandis demanded.

[This message has been edited by honu (edited December 18, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 18, 2008).]

Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

My comments below...

quote:
“OK, Lords Slandis and Bellino, my hall has guested you properly. Now what brings you here?” Nevin's father said with a scowl from the dining table.

This isn't working for me, mainly because it begins with two characters whose POV the story is not. Does Nevin's father have a name?

quote:
“True, you've extended the proper courtesy, and it's perhaps rude of me to impose on you, but you see, I mean to challenge you,” Lord Slandis returned.
Nevin wondered if Lord Slandis had gone mad as he watched him wave the bandaged, blood-seeping stump where a hand once had been. His father was by far the most powerful dragon lord of the six on their island.

From this, it shows that it's Nevin's POV, so I'd prefer to see Nevin mentioned first. Perhaps begin with Nevin eying the two intruders who had the audacity to stand before his father. He looks at his father wondering what he'll say/do.

I'm not real clear on what happened to Lord Slandis' hand, but I"m assuming that Nevin's father hacked it off. If so, then maybe you can incorporate that into Nevin's thoughts in the opening (if he does in fact know).

The first bit of dialogue could be Lord Slandis challenging Nevin's father?

quote:
Lord Slandis didn't stand a chance. <--I don't think you need this.
“Are you mad, man?” his father pointed at the stump.
“Lord Keathley, I challenge you for hall, horde, and holding
replied Lord Slandis.

Ah, Nevin's father does have a name! May want to mention it up front (or mention Nevin's last name - you can infer the rest in dialogue).

"My lord, you suck! I will take your hall, horde, and holding, whatever those are!" said Lord Slandis arrogantly while grinning evilly. (I'm joking!!!)

quote:
“Lord Bellino talk some sense into your neighbor,” his

Perhaps if you shorten it a bit, you can demonstrate Lord Bellino's actions -- he's nervous and doesn't support Lord Slandis or he's supporting him - and other important parts up front???

At this point, I'm not "hooked", but some work may make it a little more interesting.

Posted by honu (Member # 8277) on :

thanks KP ! let's try ver2

Posted by Kee Stone (Member # 8282) on :

I read the earlier comment about the pov. Why don't you do the Fathers pov? I think that would give you the edge you need to pull this one off.

With either the father or the son, though, we need thoughts. Or, more importantly, we need to know right of the bat what kind of relationship the father has with his son, or vise versa, because how they feel about or toward each other will explain their reaction. Perhaps his father is abusive to Nevin, in which case Nevin would be surprised that a one armed man would challanged his father, but would want the one armed man to win. Or, perhaps this is an ancient feud between two families. Any of this will change what you focus on while writing the story. Right now, it is ok. But I want to be inside Nevin, if that's what pov you decide in the end. I want to know why he thinks the way he thinks, and I want to know quick.

Oh, and don't ever start a story with wondered. It makes the whole story sound ify. As readers, we want to know facts. Solid evidence.

That's enough. On more of a personal note, I have found that if it takes me a long time to write something, struggling on every word or sentence, then it is poor workmanship. But when I myself have been sucked into the world I am writing on to paper, then I would class that as a much better production.

Good Luck.

Posted by honu (Member # 8277) on :

thanks Kee Stone

Nevin is my MC and his father is about to be killed (spoiler)...the story follows him, thereafter. I have the plot and conclusion in mind, I just need to set it up with a great 13...always fun

[This message has been edited by honu (edited December 16, 2008).]

Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :

I think that this is a case where workshopping the story is making it worse. If someone has an opinion about your work, look at it carefully and ask yourself a few questions like:
Is it a valid view? (Almost always the answer is yes.)
Is it a valid view in all or most cases?
Is it a valid view in this case? (A little less often yes.)
Why or why not?

The last question is an important one. In the case of your story, I also asked

Who is the MC? (Nevin)
Who is the action revolving around? (Nevin's father)

Now we have a dilemma. We have to establish the POV character and the character in which the action is revolving around, AC I'll call it. So, you can either start with action, thus AC, or start with MC. If you start with action, then you have to establish POV (i.e. MC) as quickly as possible. In the first version, you did this in the second sentence, so there was no problem there. Alternatively, you can start with MC, carrying the risk that you distance your audience from the action if MC is only an observer. If your story is primarily about the MC's character, that is fine. If it is primarily about the actions of certain people, including the MC, then start with action.

Posted by honu (Member # 8277) on :

hmm, good points Brendan

...there's so many ways to say the same thing ...it's sometimes difficult to see which is the best way....I wasn't having any problems with first version...but that's why I ask others if it's clear to them....part of the issue also I think is there is good writing ( I'm not there yet) and there's stylistic choices...and there's a plethora of no-nos that I am learning as I go along....regardless....thank all of you for your input...this story is finished and in a slush pile atm .

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

Be careful of editing it everytime someone comments on it. First, it will drive you mad. Second, regardless of what we say, it's always our opinion. The first question you have to ask when you get feedback is, do I agree with it? If you do consider changing. If not, and a number of people ping the same issue, then review and revisit even if you don't agree with the comment.

All that said:

I liked the first version best. So, I'm going to comment on that one The other two versions start out static - Nevin is watching and they both require you to dump info on me.

So that said, my take on Version 1:

quote:
“OK, Really? A king's going to talk this informally? Cut the "ok" Lords Slandis and Bellino, my hall has guested you properly. Now what brings you here?” not a great first line but not terrible either
Nevin's father since this is Nevin's POV wouldn't he think of his father as "father"? said with a scowl from the dining table.
“True, you've extended the proper courtesy, and it's perhaps rude of me to impose on you, but you see, I mean to challenge you,” Lord Slandis returned use "said" instead of "returned".I'm not sure Slandis is going to worry about courtesy when he's going to try to kill the man, Cut to the punch - "Lord Keathley, I challenge you for hall, horde and holding"

Nevin wondered if Lord Slandis had gone mad as he watched him wave the bandaged, blood-seeping stump where a hand once had been. you don't need this line since say it again in dialog and dialog is almost always better than a mini info dump
His father was by far the most powerful dragon lord of the six on their island. Lord Slandis didn't stand a chance.
“Are you mad, man?” his father pointed at the bandaged, blood-seeping stump where Lord Slandis's left hand had once been stump.
“Lord Keathley, I challenge you for hall, horde, and holding
replied Lord Slandis.

You might be starting a bit early. I'd be tempted to start with the challenge which is why I've suggested you move it up. There's some repetition in that Nevin thinks something and then his father repeats it. If you move into the action quicker you can deal with the aftermath which, it appears from your comments, is where the story really starts.

Posted by honu (Member # 8277) on :

Thanks Kings Falcon I think I tend to try too hard to write to please, perhaps...not critisizing any contributers...like I said before some things are stylistic choices others have...I think in the future I will try to get a few saying the same thing about sections and adjust accordingly...I posted a revision on ver 4...I wasn't real happy with bringing Nevin in so late, perhaps this won't work

Posted by Khalan (Member # 5950) on :

I think you're right - it doesn't work with your POV character coming in so late and not contributing anything. You can lead off with another character speaking, but you have to give your POV character's impression of the statement immediately. Otherwise, the reader has no one to anchor onto, and it rapidly becomes difficult to keep track of what's going on.

Given what is unfolding here, I would start with a few lines from Nevin's POV describing the feast, his curiosity at what these other lords are doing there, or his perception of his father's impatience. Perhaps Nevin uncomfortable seated near the one-handed Lord Slandis. Whatever it is you want to express about the scene, do it through Nevin.