Hatrack River Writers Workshop: The Finding of Mount Olympus TAKE II

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Posted by jeffrey.hite (Member # 5278) on :

Some of you may remember that I put this story up a while back and goofed and had lost my polished copy. So I thought I would start anew. I am looking for thoughts on the first 13, and / or the title also two or three people that would be interested in reading.

Hopefully this goes better than last time.
*****
March 21 9:30 AM Eastern Standard Time.
"I've found it!" Larry shouted standing up in his cubical so that we could all see him. "I found Mount Olympus."

"So? Why not Atlantis, Larry? Hundreds of thousands of people have found Mount Olympus, most notably the Greeks. It's an actual mountain in Greece you know. ". Sue rebuffed him from the next cubical over, not even bothering to get up. She barely tolerated him.
"What?" I blurted out while standing up for the first time since I had gotten into the office that morning.
"Mt Olympus, come see..." he repeated, beckoning me over.
I hesitated; going over into Larry's cubical was a bit like stepping into a fantasy world and more often than not, not one you would really like to visit.

*****
Enjoy!
-Jeff

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

My take:

quote:

[March 21 9:30 AM Eastern Standard Time.<--[I wouldn't feel cheated if this wasn't here.]
"I've found it!" Larry shouted standing up in his cubical so that we could all see him. "I found Mount Olympus."
"[So? Why not Atlantis, Larry?<--[I think you could accomplish the same feel without this:] Hundreds of thousands of people have found Mount Olympus,[Larry,] most notably the Greeks. [I mean, hello, i]t's an actual mountain in Greece you know." Sue rebuffed him from the next cubical over, not even bothering to get up. [She barely tolerated him<--[Don't need this, she just showed us how she feels toward him.].
"What?" I blurted out while standing up [for the first time since I had gotten into the office that morning<--[I don't need to know this. Does the business require a lot of standing and sitting?].
"Mt Olympus, come see..." he repeated, beckoning me over.<--[This doesn't explain why he's excited about finding a mapped Mt. Olympus. Maybe he should say something about "Not that Olympus: the mountain of the gods." or something. Unless gives a reason, I'm with Sue: who cares?]
I hesitated; going over into Larry's cubical was a bit like stepping into a fantasy world and more often than not, not one you would really like to visit.<--[Nice. But, I would never have gotten that far.]

Hope this helps.

Posted by jeffrey.hite (Member # 5278) on :

IB A couple of questions about your comments and thoughts of my own.

quote:

[March 21 9:30 AM Eastern Standard Time.<--[I wouldn't feel cheated if this wasn't here.] <--- because the time line jumps around a bit later in the story all of my first readers suggested something like this. It is hard in the first 13 to tell if it is needed but I think it helps later
"I've found it!" Larry shouted standing up in his cubical so that we could all see him. "I found Mount Olympus."
"[So? Why not Atlantis, Larry?<--[I think you could accomplish the same feel without this:] Hundreds of thousands of people have found Mount Olympus,[Larry,] most notably the Greeks. [I mean, hello, i]t's an actual mountain in Greece you know." Sue rebuffed him from the next cubical over, not even bothering to get up. [She barely tolerated him<--[Don't need this, she just showed us how she feels toward him.].
"What?" I blurted out while standing up [for the first time since I had gotten into the office that morning<--[I don't need to know this. Does the business require a lot of standing and sitting?]. <--- funny because the first time I posted this I wrote, "First time he stood up all day" and everyone said, what was he in bed?
"Mt Olympus, come see..." he repeated, beckoning me over.<--[This doesn't explain why he's excited about finding a mapped Mt. Olympus. Maybe he should say something about "Not that Olympus: the mountain of the gods." or something. Unless gives a reason, I'm with Sue: who cares?]
I hesitated; going over into Larry's cubical was a bit like stepping into a fantasy world and more often than not, not one you would really like to visit.<--[Nice. But, I would never have gotten that far.] <--- Not sure what you are saying here. You would not have finished reading? Or you would not have gone into Larry's Cube? Just kind of wondering.

Thanks for the input

[This message has been edited by jeffrey.hite (edited February 05, 2008).]

Posted by branteaton (Member # 7782) on :

I like the suspense created: we do not know what he means when he claims he found Mt. Olympus.

I want to know quickly some hint of the real answer.

Some typographical notes:

Your version

quote:
I hesitated; going over into Larry's cubical was a bit like stepping into a fantasy world and more often than not, not one you would really like to visit.

My edits

quote:

I hesitated: [";" signals a more abrupt change of sentance subject, : signals a continuing theme] going over into Larry's cubical was a bit like stepping into a fantasy world. More often than not, [omit "not"] one you would not [added] really like to visit.

Comments are my opinion only. I Am Not An Editor.

[This message has been edited by branteaton (edited February 05, 2008).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

quote:

[March 21 9:30 AM Eastern Standard Time.<--[I wouldn't feel cheated if this wasn't here.] <--- because the time line jumps around a bit later in the story all of my first readers suggested something like this. It is hard in the first 13 to tell if it is needed but I think it helps later

1) Okay. As far as selling your first thirteen here, I wouldn't feel cheated if you skipped the timeline. If I don't get past the first 13, I won't know about the multiple timelines. For that matter, I'd assume you are starting in the present (and "present" would be enough for me to distinguish the difference between now and then). And, I don't know if you realize this, but you have month, day, and time, but not year...

quote:

"What?" I blurted out while standing up [for the first time since I had gotten into the office that morning<--[I don't need to know this. Does the business require a lot of standing and sitting?]. <--- funny because the first time I posted this I wrote, "First time he stood up all day" and everyone said, what was he in bed?

2) The people that posted that were either foolish, or they didn't read the part before: Sue's in a cubical (Do they think cubicals are occupied by beds?). AND you meantion Larry's cubical, too. Also, maybe they were talking about the fact that you said "First time" he stood up "All day". Those would be cut out of the version I trimmed.

quote:

I hesitated; going over into Larry's cubical was a bit like stepping into a fantasy world and more often than not, not one you would really like to visit.<--[Nice. But, I would never have gotten that far.] <--- Not sure what you are saying here. You would not have finished reading? Or you would not have gone into Larry's Cube? Just kind of wondering.

3) By that point, I would have already dropped the story. By that point, I am confused. To be honest, I had wondered if Larry suffered from mental retardation--an affirmative action hire. Because after Sue's sarcastic comment, I imagined a dumbfounded look as he plowed on, repeating himself, without responding. <shrug> It's probably just me, but I saw Stephen King's doey-eyed character Tom Cullin from The Stand: "M...o...o..n, that spells Mount Olympus. Laws, yes." You should have him acknowledge that she spoke, if not verbally, with a sneer or something.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited February 05, 2008).]

Posted by jeffrey.hite (Member # 5278) on :

IB Thank you. That reply was very helpful. I was trying to narrow word count (trying to keep it under 5K) and I had cut out his reply to Sue but I think I can narrow her retort and put his back and it will even out.

Thanks again

Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :

Jeff, I would consider it an honor to read anything u'd like to send me.

Tracy

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

I like stories about discovering lost cities. So I while I was attracted simply by the Mount Olympus reference, I had some difficulties with the first 13.

First, I'm not an ancient historian or anything, so I assume Mount Olympus is a mountain. Atlantis was a city, wasn't it? So why would Sue suggest he'd mistaken a mountain for Atlantis--even someone she despises wouldn't be that far wrong would they? For me this puzzle reduced the believability of the story to come.

More seriously, if finding Mount Olympus is the hook, Sue bends it completely out of shape. If she's not interested, why should I be?

Did Larry stand up so everyone could see him, or did he leap up in excitement?

I thought "blurted" was an odd choice of word. I think blurting is an involuntary thing, and therefore the narrator ought not to be surprised by his (or her) own behaviour.

Also, if the narrator is so surprised, I don't think that the number of times he or she had stood up that morning would be on his or her mind. For me, it would be more engaging to learn something of why the narrator is surprised. Also, this detail distracts from the excitement of discovering Mount Olympus and slows the story.

"and more often than not" -- I think there should be a comma after the "and".

"Mt Olympus, come see..." -- I don't think people speak in abbrev'ns.

Finally, "cubical" is an adjective. I think you mean "cubicle". Oddly enough, I made the same spelling error myself last week in a technical piece.

Hopefully helpfully,
Pat

[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited February 10, 2008).]

Posted by jeffrey.hite (Member # 5278) on :

quote:

First, I'm not an ancient historian or anything, so I assume Mount Olympus is a mountain. Atlantis was a city, wasn't it? So why would Sue suggest he'd mistaken a mountain for Atlantis--even someone she despises wouldn't be that far wrong would they? For me this puzzle reduced the believability of the story to come.

TaleSpinner Thank you for the comments. My only reply is that Sue is trying to be rude and utterly sarcastic. "Mount Olympus, Larry, really, could you find something more outrageous." However, I was trying to be a little more subtle. I hope that helps with the understanding.

quote:

Jeff, I would consider it an honor to read anything u'd like to send me.
Tracy

It should be on it's way. If you have any trouble let me know.

Thanks,

Jeff

[This message has been edited by jeffrey.hite (edited February 11, 2008).]

Posted by jeffrey.hite (Member # 5278) on :

I want to thank everyone who read for me. Now I have one more problem to face.
One of the readers, who I respect very much, says that he really liked the story, but that it needed to be tightened up. On my first reading through of his comments, I was very pleased, he was saying pretty much the same thing everyone else was saying. Change the dialog here, I don't understand why he did this or that, but nothing major. I my second read through, yes I read all my comments twice at least, just so if you are one of my readers you don't think that I don't read anything you are saying, I saw something a little more disturbing. The reader was suggesting that he was getting bored, although he had been hooked in the beginning the story dragged on for two long in the middle before getting to an ending. At the end of the story, he added some comments that although welcome were hard to swallow. Basically he suggested that I cut the first half to three quarters of the story out and expand the ending, but only a little.
So now I am torn. Parts of the story that loved were in the beginning half that he suggested cutting, but reading the story over again after reading the comments again, I could see his point. I am not excited about cutting some of my favorite parts of the story, but I don't want the reader to be bored.
The way I have always looked at editing my own work is that, If I make major changes there is no turning back. It is not that I don't keep a copy before I make changes, but I almost never go back to them, so if I make these changes that is it. That is my state of mind today, I was waiting on the last few people to make comments and then I was going to make those changes and prep it for submission, and now I don't know what to do. If I make major revisions I would want to sent it our to readers again, to see if the it is as well liked. I guess part of me is just sad that I will lose parts of the story that I worked very hard on and unsure if I should make the suggested changes. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Posted by LCastle (Member # 7363) on :

I think you need to look at the comments as a whole, and balance that against your regard for this particular reader and your own feelings about the piece.

If five of ten folks (or even two) say they were bored in the middle, then it's certainly worth considering. If your Wise Reader says it, then ditto. If it's just this one person, then go with your gut. Yes, you don't want the reader to be bored, but remember that readers are as different as writers. What bores one may be "suspense" or "cool background" or "lush illustration" for another.

Also take into account that by making such drastic changes, you may very well lose the readers that are happy with the story as is.

You can't please everyone, and that's especially true with writing. So go with your gut and please yourself.

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

Cut it. Then wait a few days. Then read both versions.

I understand you never go back to old versions. But that's a historical fact, not (at least, I should hope not) a commitment. Be willing to do it differently this time.

One good way to edit is, in fact, to rewrite entirely. Then compare. When you come across something in the original you really should have included, you stick it back into the new version. But, by and large, the rewritten version tends to be better.

In this case, you'll never know until you try it.

Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :

Jeff. I read the story last week and had to come back to it and read it again to confirm first impressions. This is how I do my own work. I need to go from first impressions not studied impressions. Basically all you get from anybody is first impressions out in the market. I see the "gets boring" issue because the truth is it does. Why? Well I’m no expert but I think it’s the dialog. Good dialog is hard to learn. Have you ever read a story where the dialog was what pulled you along more than the story? Yours seemed corny, sitcom-ish and I think it distracts too much from your story. Your story starts in the office and leads to Greece. I think that is a viable part of the story because you're trying to convey the concept that this man wondered how he ever ended up in the situation and you want to take the reader on that same journey. So I think you can tell it the way your telling it but the dialog needs to be more concise and realistic to keep the reader in the story. Dialog has a learning curve. I used to think my dialog was great years ago but when I go back and read stuff I wrote back then I have to laugh because it’s so idealistic and unrealistic. The only thing that helped me was reading good dialog from authors I respect. Understanding its true structure. And I still have a long way to go.

The idea is fine, but it is a very short story idea because it is not explored beyond the fact that his friend vanishes, sort of like an old Twilight Zone thing. I would be inclined to make it no more than three pages, four tops. If I found this in an anthology of shorts and it was 10-12 pages long I would be disappointed at its simplicity and lack of development. If I saw it was 4 pages I would already expect that it is a brief but clever little idea and be well pleased. Two different reactions from the same story.

I hope my opinion, such as it is, helped.

Tracy

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

quote:
I am not excited about cutting some of my favorite parts of the story, but I don't want the reader to be bored.

This is what is meant when writers are advised to "kill your darlings" and it's one of the hardest things about being a writer.

You don't have to delete the parts you love forever. Keep them in a "my darlings" file somewhere, and maybe you will find a better place for them in a different story.

Posted by jeffrey.hite (Member # 5278) on :

quote:

This is what is meant when writers are advised to "kill your darlings" and it's one of the hardest things about being a writer.
You don't have to delete the parts you love forever. Keep them in a "my darlings" file somewhere, and maybe you will find a better place for them in a different story.

See I always thought that was about killing off your characters. That, for me, is easy enough to do so on my list of things an author must be willing to do I had already checked that off. But, I can see how it applies here. I have already started on a rewrite and I will post it here when I am done.

DEATH TO THE DARLINGS
"It's good to be the darling." "The Darling must die."