Hatrack River Writers Workshop: How do you show stilted dialogue?

This is topic How do you show stilted dialogue? in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

I have a supporting character who is a time traveler, and who is injured. He was captured and roughed up, and my MC is listening to a recording of the injured person. I'm trying to show the character short of breath, sort of gasping as he speaks, but also show that it REALLY hurts to talk. As part of the story, I even have the MC guessing that the supporting character has been hurt, so I want it to sound authentic. Right now, I am using elipses "..." to do this, but I have had several reviewers indicate that these were distracting and hard to read through.

A sample of what I have right now is below. Any suggestions?

_________________________

This time, I heard a different voice. It was raspy, and sounded stuffed up. I also thought he might be injured.
“Pizarro… was a prick. In case anybody… was wondering. After spending… eleven days here… I can’t believe… that things are going to… end like this.”
With the way his phrases were coming out, this guy was hurting. I’d been in a few bar fights myself, but I’d never been roughed up this bad. If I had to guess, several of his ribs were broken – maybe his nose as well.
“My name… is Paul… Paul Alkon. I first… arrived in Peru… the 11th of April… 1524. My intent… was to study the… ecological… anthropology of… the Incan culture. When it was fresh… Before Pizarro.”

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

According to Pam McCutcheon you're correct to use the ellipsis.

http://www.pammc.com/dialogue.htm

And when someone is short of breath and hurting, the gaps are indeed distracting and hard to listen through.

Just 2c,
Pat

Posted by Lynda (Member # 3574) on :

It looks fine to me, Igwiz. Actually, I'd add MORE breaks. Have you ever been badly hurt? If you're gasping for breath, stringing three words together is often the most you can do (been there, done that, no fun, don't plan to revisit that experience!). When I write such things, the breaks are more frequent because I know when I've been in really awful pain, I could barely THINK three words ahead, much less speak a whole, coherent sentence (unless there was morphine involved . . .).

Posted by halogen (Member # 6494) on :

Ellipses in dialog are like italics in dialog. They should only be used so much.

"I've... got... a problem... with... my... heart... and need... to see... a doctor!"

"I've got a problem with my heart and need to see a doctor!"

The problem with using lots of ellipses (and italics) is it becomes difficult to read and readers like me will switch to "skim mode" where I start hunting for an end to the thing that is bothering me.

If ellipses are difficult to read then the answer is to only use them in moderation. A character can talk like that, fine, but only for a few lines.

If the character needs to discuss some major back-story where they will be talking for 1/2 or 2/3 a page then I would recommend finding some way for that back-story to be integrated without that character talking.

In your story, someone is listening to a recording. Why not have all of the back-story in the recording be the time traveler talking normal, he could be captured, roughed up a little but still able to talk normally (he could have a broken leg but still be able to talk normally).

Then the MC could fast-forward to the end where time traveler is out of breath and in major pain. That way you can incorporate all of the back-story in a normal non-ellipse voice and still show that the time traveler is in great danger.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

We don't know the voice on the recording is hurt or out of breath. You didn't tell us that your protagonist thought he was scared, out of breath from running, or grunting from pain. That makes a difference. It doesn't take much mention of either to set it up so we (the readers) know how to take the ellipsis.

On my first read through--seeing all the ellipsis made me think that the recording was broken up, not that the voice was injured or short of breath. I expected to have to piece the information together over damages to the recording. Then, when the words weren't broken, it got very distracting.

I hope this helps.

Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

IAB: Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand. The example posted above is taken un-edited from the original. I thought I was pretty direct when I added description and MC reaction between the broken dialogue. I introduced it as sounding raspy, and perhaps injured. After the first broken dialogue, my MC thinks the guy has broken ribs and a broken nose.

I guess I'm not sure how to do more than that without belaboring the point, which I think will distract from the story more than the ellipsis...

Could you clarify your comment? I'm having trouble understanding whether you think I've fixed the problem or not.

Thanks,

Posted by Lynda (Member # 3574) on :

I don't see how you could tell if someone had broken ribs or a broken nose from a recording. The ribs - that would be impossible to tell audibly, IMO. The broken nose - catch me on a bad sinus day, and I can sound like that too.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

Maybe I was just tired when I read it. Maybe so much broken dialogue made miss the obvious, or distracted me enough to skim.

I can see how my comment would've frustrated you. WOW, did I miss the obvious:

quote:
With the way his phrases were coming out, this guy was hurting. I’d been in a few bar fights myself, but I’d never been roughed up this bad. If I had to guess, several of his ribs were broken – maybe his nose as well.

However, I agree with Lynda, you can't tell what injuries he has from a recording, but you can tell if he sounds hurt: short breaths, grunts, groans, air being sucked in between someone's teeth, a strained voice, etc. If you're breaking up the dialogue by that much, I think you should interject these sensory elements in some of the spaces.

I hope this is truly helpful.

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

I must admit that when I first read it I interpreted the ellipses as static interference, like a badly tuned radio. I did wonder briefly how MC knew that in fact the supporting character was hurt. I think IB's last comment about how hurt might sound is very helpful.

Pat

[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited January 01, 2008).]

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

quote:
I think you should interject these sensory elements in some of the spaces.

I think IB is about right here. You seemed to me to be more specific than is realistic about the injuries and it almost reads like an info dump when you refer to them. I'd scatter in comments like hearing him suck in his breath or he paused and moaned rather than only using ellipses. That way you can be sure the reader gets what your saying and I think that is more readable.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited January 01, 2008).]

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

I also find the extended use of ellipses distracting and annoying to read. Kind of like transcribed dialect. I'd much rather be told (yes, the four-letter t-word!) that the sentences were hard for the MC to understand because they were broken by pants and groans, or something like that.

Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

Thanks all. I appreciate the feedback. It had definitely helped.

Here is the revision of the section posted above. No ellipsis... (man, I just love those dang things!).

What do you think? Do I do a better job of indicating the traveller is hurt? I guess I have to trust the reader here more than the previous version, but I'm willing to sacrifice the ellipsis if it will get read and if I don't let the reader lose the understanding that the Incas beat the crap out of the guy.

______________________________

This time, I heard a different voice. It was raspy, and he sounded injured, often stopping in mid-sentence to catch his breath.
“Pizarro was a prick. In case anybody was wondering. After spending eleven days here I can’t believe that things are going to end like this.”
He stopped and sucked in a quick wheezing breath between his teeth. I’d been in a few bar fights myself, but I’d never been roughed up this bad. He groaned and let out a little gasp, then went on.
“My name is Paul. Paul Alkon. I first arrived in Peru the 11th of April, 1524. My intent was to study the ecological anthropology of the Incan culture. When it was fresh.

[This message has been edited by Igwiz (edited January 01, 2008).]

Posted by First Assistant (Member # 3458) on :

At this point, this should be moved into Fragments & Feedback for critiques.

Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

sorry about that!

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

quote:
At this point, this should be moved into Fragments & Feedback for critiques.

Good enough, but does the old thread have to get locked? Isn't "How do you show stilted dialogue" still a valid topic for Open Discussion, in a general sense?

As for the revision:
I think it reads much better. However, I think you should put the MC's conclusion that "It was raspy and he sounded injured, often stopping in mid-sentence to catch his breath" after the line of dialogue, or at least part of it. Otherwise, it feels like you're putting the horse before the cart.

Something like:

"Pizarro was a prick. In case anybody was wondering." The voice this time was a man's, raspy and broken by pants and wheezes.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited January 02, 2008).]

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

Would it be impossible for the guy to be watching a video feed of the guy that got beat up? Would make the injuries more obvious when the ellipses came along. You could show him grimacing, etc. Anyhow. Additionally, I think the monologue of the injured guy is kind of odd. Just how injured is he? Is this like a "last message" type of thing? You do say that "things are going to end like this." Why else would the recording be happening while the guy was injured? In that case, very little of what the injured guy is saying seems like something that someone who was really injured would be saying. There isn't much else to go on with this first 13, and to me it doesn't really mesh. Good luck with it though.

Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

Very good point, annepin. Changing the order of that makes a lot more sense and puts it in the right order. He will need to listen, then react... Thanks!

Dan, this isn't actually a first 13, it's from the body of a piece, and was used to try to figure out how to write about a character that was having trouble speaking because he was in pain.

[This message has been edited by Igwiz (edited January 02, 2008).]

Posted by AstroStewart (Member # 2597) on :

I think one of the reasons so many people are saying it came across more as static interference than the actual speaker breaking up his words, is that he is speaking perfectly punctuated, grammatically correct sentences... with breaks in them. I would recommend taking out all unnecessary words from the dialogue. If it hurts so much to speak every word, I don't think I would bother saying "the 11th of April" it would be "11th... April" or even just "April 11th."

I think the breaks are fine, so long as he's also speaking in this minimalistic nature, trying to cut out every word that isn't necessary for understanding. Instead of "My name" maybe he would just say "I'm" instead of "I first arrived" maybe just "arrived" or "Incan culture" to "the Incas" etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

I think AstroStewart is on to something here. The dialogue does read awfully clean. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but he does sound a bit too perky and composed for being, presumably, mortally injured.

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

I'm having trouble suspending belief. It might be because you started in the wrong place. Apparently the MC is listening to some recording from some guy made at some point in time in some place. There's not enough for me to care to read on.

On the stilted dialog - the original elipses were fine to establish the breaks but too many. Now, it reads a bit too clean. IMHO, balance the two approaches. You might want to start with the elipsed text and then have the MC indicate that the recording went on in the same broken manner as the speaker stopped to catch his breath or wince in pain. Much like in the movies when the start with captions for a foreign language and then zoom into the character's mouth and zoom back out in English. I still know the character is speaking Russian but am not being tortured by having to read captions all movie.

I'm also not convinced that the MC can tell how bad the speaker has been roughed up by his voice. I couldn't. What makes the MC so special that he can?

I'm also not convinced that the speaker would talk like that if he's injured to the point he thinks he's going to die.

Posted by supraturtle (Member # 1518) on :

"My God," he said. I heard a liquid gurgle on his shallow, quick breathing under the cracked, weak voice, "This might be it."
Again a coarse, desperate expulsion and a sudden fit of coughing punctuated his speech, "Arrow in head hurts... someone have aspirin?"
I didn't know quite how to describe that, but that's how I work duress.

Posted by bigdawgpoet (Member # 7046) on :

Hey, buddy.

Gotta tell you, without commenting on anything but the dialogue, that it actually worked for me. I felt myself being a little breathless as I read, and I'd have to say the attempt to relate the character's distress was, for me at least, effective.

I'd like to see how this one turns out, for nothing but sheer, morbid curiosity.

See ya.

~Ben