This is topic First 10, revised in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by Ti3m (Member # 3566) on :
 
Hi all,
I know I'm not here all that much, I work full time and when I have spare time, I like to spend it writing on my project, a full length manuscript entitled, Iibrahiim. I appeciate the critique of my first try, and am presenting my revised beginning below.
In addition, I am looking for an independent critique of the chapters that follow this beginning. If anyone is interested in reading more, please email me at t.r.od@hotmail.com.

“When a man becomes a human being it is a rare event, and when that human being dies, Iibrahiim forges him anew and puts another star shining in the heavens, an example for all to see.”
“What rare event? Look at all the stars!”
“Aa, but when was it last you saw a new one?”
“Hmmm, but if that is so, then why do some stars fall from the sky?”

My childhood dreams are of a valley located in the rough foothills of mountains formed by the ancient bones of the world-dragon. From each side of this valley, clear streams and tributary brooks cascade down the steep hills and granite canyons into the cool water of a river. The river winds through


Thanks,

Ti3m

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 14, 2006).]
 


Posted by Ti3m (Member # 3566) on :
 
Oh, I forgot to mention the first part is supposed to be a chapter intro-thingy. I forget what they call them.

Thanks,

Ti3m
 


Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
 
The hook for me is the 5 races of men, with only one being "real." I'm mildly hooked. I'd keep reading.

I don't like the 4 lines of dialog. There's a cost to changing the subject, and I don't think what's in these 4 lines made it interesting enough to justify the cost.
 


Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :
 
Okay, maybe I'm having an off day, but I don't get it. The four lines of dialogue are confusing. And then you jump immediately into something else. Are you sure those four lines of dialogue are absolutely necessary? Do they tell me something I must know? Cause the fact that I don't know who's talking is a huge distraction to me so I don't hear what they're actually trying to say.
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
The vingette is a bit off-putting because you use "human being" in such a humanist way, whereas this is not a humanist culture. That seems unnecessarily confusing, since you could easily say something like "becomes enlightened" (which would work better with the bit about being put into the sky as a star, wouldn't it?) or just make up a term and define it later.

Other than that, it's probably pretty good. I would change "when that human being dies" to "when an enlightened one's body dies" or leave it as "when he dies", to emphasize the religious significance. But then, I'm assuming that you mean something other than what "human being" commonly means when you say "human being", and I could be totally wrong about that.

The second paragraph of self-introduction would work a bit better if it were cast more explicitly as self-introduction, if the narrator told us why he's telling the story and possibly why we might be expected to want to read it. But it's clear to me that it is introductory, so I wouldn't down it. I could read the rest of the prologue.
 


Posted by starsin (Member # 4081) on :
 
Send me a copy...I'll take a look-see at it for ya. E-mail is jtylert3@yahoo.com
 
Posted by Ti3m (Member # 3566) on :
 
Thanks for the input, let me explain.

The snippet of conversation is meant to be a chapter introduction, as such I am introducing the theme of the novel in the form of a child questioning a creation myth. The novel is about what it takes to transcend one's basic existence, to become stellar, --what it takes to recognize what ones purpose is in life and to acheive it.

As such, would it be better to label the chapter introduction, with something like: -- from a child's conversation with wise Orii?

Or something like: -- a childhood question?

Or perhaps, it would be better to substitute a different chapter introduction? The chapter introductions are mainly sections of myth and legends of this fiction race, but also include proverbs.

Either way, the speakers will become more evident from conversations in later chapters. (Not chapter 1)

Thanks,

ti3m


 


Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
 
I'd either skip the chapter intro; make it a one-liner; or (and I probably wouldn't try this) make it so interesting we wish it were longer. Problem with that is that then we'll want to read that instead of your regular narrative!

OSC does chapter intros in the Ender books. He makes the dialogs directly and obviously relevant to the main story, so it's not so much a change of subject when we leave the intro.
 


Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
In my opinion, the vignette only fails because the usage of "human being" in that context is inherently confusing.

Try replacing it with "catfish" and see how much sense it makes.

quote:
“When a man becomes a catfish it is a rare event, and when that catfish dies, Iibrahiim forges him anew and puts another star shining in the heavens, an example for all to see.”

Surely you can see that this is merely nonsense. We have no idea what "catfish" means other than being a kind of large bottom feeding freshwater fish, the literal meaning. It could be a Christic symbol indicating those followers of Christ who achieved his admonition to become both wise as snakes and harmless as doves (you know; fish being a symbol of Christ, cats being a symbol of witches, hence wicca, hence knowledge...maybe you don't know). But without any obvious hints, we're left with the word "catfish".

The term "human being" taken in isolation has to mean a member of the species Homo sapiens. In this case, "species" means a naturally existing population of similar organisms that usually interbreed only among themselves, and are given a unique, latinized binomial name to distinguish them from all other creatures. So it appears that you're saying "when a man becomes a member of an population of Homo sapiens, capable of producing off-spring with other members of that population, it is a rare event...." But most readers will be expecting that it is usual for men to be members of the human species. Even those who believe that most "men" are not human will have a hard time understanding the assertion that humans are particularly rare.

I know, you are using "human being" to mean a being exhibiting some trait that you aver to be found only in humans, and then only rarely. But this usage of "human being" is only found among humanists, and everything about your opening (such as references to Iibrahiim, a form of exaltation, and the references in the second paragraph) indicate that your characters are not members of a humanist society. They are far more likely to take the view that humans are inherently evil, weak, foolish, or cowardly. You might be a humanist yourself, but you have to understand that your characters simply aren't.

Anyway, I'm still available to read the prologue. If there's something in there that makes me change my mind, I'll let you know.
 




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