Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Time Travelers Handbook (13)

This is topic Time Travelers Handbook (13) - Take Two in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by berserc (Member # 4273) on :

I was inspired by some of the comments on my previous post. I've moved the lecture further into the story and started with the main character instead. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this approach to the short story:

The chair was comfortable enough, but he still fidgeted. His hands couldn’t stop stroking the edges of the leather bound handbook engraved with his name, project and date. It was the first time he’d seen the book and was anxious to open it, to analyze it, no to devour it. But the Mandarin on the board in the front of the room was specific, “Find your seat, sit, don’t open the binder. We will begin shortly.”

He looked around to see if anyone else was breaking the rule. They weren’t. They all looked significantly more relaxed than he felt. His gaze returned to the handbook: Albert Hansen | United States, Chicago | 1968. His fingers cupped the edge of the cover and he slowly lifted it about four centimeters with his thumb.

Posted by januson (Member # 4194) on :

though fidgeting generally isn't too much a conscious effort, it sounds weird to have his hands doing things and his fingers doing things, as if separate from him

at the end you have him doing something "with his thumb" which works better as far as that goes

Posted by januson (Member # 4194) on :

sorry for doing two replies in a row, but oddly enough i noticed only after the previous one that you didn't actually mention time travel or really get into the subject at all in this opener. i can't tell you if this works better or worse as far as getting into that much of the story though, as i already know what it's about, from the title (of course) and from the previous open

also, nice thing about the mandarin, though i'm not sure how subtle it was

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

I like this MUCH better as an opening. It involves me immediately in the conflict of a human being. I would keep reading. I don't really see anything wrong with it that I can point out.

Posted by JBSkaggs (Member # 2265) on :

Much better- this just needs some tightening of the extra verbage. But I would read this!

Specifically if this had come to my (now defunct) magazine would ask you to do the following:

Remove the first sentence, it is unnecessary. Give us the man's name. And just state what was on the engraving don't say his name, project etc just state what is there.

Then resubmit it for consideration. But I don't run a magazine anymore so don't actually submit it to me. Except maybe to critique.

JB Skaggs

[This message has been edited by JBSkaggs (edited November 18, 2006).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

That instruction doesn't sound like translated Chinese, which left me wondering whether "Mandarin" meant "instructor/proctor" despite the fact that the image thus produced is merely silly unless "board" means "video screen". It also raises the question of whether the handbook was labled using characters, which I would tend to guess in the negative both because none of it seems like information that would plausibly be written in Chinese and specifically because of the use of "United States".

Of course, I also felt a little distanced by the lack of a character identification.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Oh, and "Mandarin" doesn't refer to writing anyway, so you might want to consider that as well.

Posted by berserc (Member # 4273) on :

This is incredibly helpful. I appreciate all of your thoughts and suggestions. And thanks for taking a second look at an opening for this short. I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't such a radicall change.

JBSkaggs - Good call about the engraving ... I agree it would read better if it were in the first graph.

Survivor - I have a lot of neighbors that are Chinese, so I'm going to ask them the best way to phrase the words and refer to the language...good catch.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I too like this *much* better.

I have disconnects here: places where I want info that's not available.

The chair was comfortable enough, but he still fidgeted. [WHO? GIVE US A NAME.] His hands couldn’t stop stroking the edges of the leather bound handbook engraved with his name, project and date. [WHY IS THERE SUCH A BOOK? WHERE IS HE?] It was the first time he’d seen the book and was anxious to open it, to analyze it, no to devour it. But the Mandarin on the board in the front of the room was specific[":" NOT ","] “Find your seat, sit, don’t open the binder. We will begin shortly.”

He looked around to see if anyone else was breaking the rule. They weren’t. [WHO'S THERE WITH HIM?] They all looked significantly more relaxed than he felt. His gaze returned to the handbook: Albert Hansen | United States, Chicago | 1968. His fingers cupped the edge of the cover and he slowly lifted it about four centimeters with his thumb.

It feels frustrating. As it is, I wouldn't read it, becaus I don't like the frustration. Otherwise I think I would, because I get the sense we're in some future world where Chicagoans speak Chinese (or go to China a lot), and I want to know why.

Posted by Ellepepper (Member # 3520) on :

I like it, I got it that The Mandarin was a characterization of a person and that he was on some sort of ruling board or council, but if that is unclear I would suggest modifying board (Project board, Guest relations board) Or that The mandarin on the board HAD SAID not to open the binder... That might be clearer.

My only problem is that the opening scene, while well done tells me nothing. I don't get the idea of what type of figit this is, is he nervous, scared, bored? You don't particularly clue us in to anything but his curiosity. And I would strike the line about the engraving and just leave the second where it gives his name and the place.

Posted by TMan1969 (Member # 3552) on :

I liked this piece, and agree with most of the comments on this page already stated (especially since I have no language background with Chinese - French yes). The end of the second para, is what peaked my interest. I started to try and imagine what would happend if the MC turned the page...well done, and keep writing!

Posted by Jenn (Member # 7798) on :

I liked it very much, it made me smile. The whole thing, no changes.

Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :

I don't see anything specifically Chinese here. The term "mandarin" itself is actually Portuguese. I've seen the term used to mean just any generically high official, not necessarily a Chinese official. Although, of course, it CAN mean one.

[This message has been edited by arriki (edited December 01, 2006).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Um, berserc has already clarified that he did intend "Mandarin" to refer to a form of writing. Mandarin refers to the dialect of spoken Chinese that uses the "official" pronounciations for the written characters, which are the same for all dialects of Chinese. Thus it happens to make no sense to say that something was written in Mandarin unless it was rendered in a phonetic script. But purely phonetic scripts are difficult to read because many different characters share identical pronounciations (this happens in English as well, one reason that we don't have a purely phonetic script).

Funny story my sister told me the other day, she had a friend back in high school who would always pronounce "won" as "wan" so as to avoid confusing it with "one". When she told the story, she said that she tried everything she could think of to persuade her friend that "won" and "one" were supposed to be pronounced the same way. I asked her if she ever tried pointing out that "wan" is pronounced "wan", and thus pronouncing "won" as "wan" only introduces confusion where there wouldn't be any. To which my sister replied, "well, back then I didn't know the word 'wan'...um, what does that mean anyway?"

Note, this story is funny because she's of considerably higher than average intelligence. As is her friend, who--for all I know--may still be saying "wan" to mean "won".

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

quote:
"I wan! I wan!"
"Um, you're wan? Do you mean that you feel ill?"
"No, I wan. You know, I...winned."
"Um, you passed gas?"
"No!..."

Hypothetical amusing scene, not an actual quote

Posted by berserc (Member # 4273) on :

Didn't know I was going to start such a rukus with the Mandrin comment

That part isn't worked out yet, it seems there is no English word for written Chinese. Its just called 'standard written Chinese' or 'vernacular Chinese,' which both sound clunky. I will keep working on that part.

It is important to the story for the character (Al) to be in China getting the briefing from a Chinese military scientist, so that nugget is good to get in early. But I might find a better way to introduce it. Maybe when I introduce the speaker.

Here is a revision based on the feedback from the forum sans significant changes to the Mandarin problem. [Thanks guys this really has helped me focus!] Check it out:

The chair was comfortable enough, but Al still fidgeted. He couldn’t stop stroking the edges of the leather bound handbook engraved with his name. It was the first time he’d seen the book and was anxious to open it, to analyze it, no to devour it. But the Mandarin on the message board in the front of the room was specific: “Find your seat, sit, don’t open the binder. We will begin shortly.”

He looked around to see if anyone else was breaking the rule. They weren’t. All the other travelers looked significantly more relaxed than he felt. His gaze returned to the handbook with the gold engraving which read Albert Hansen | United States, Chicago | 1968. He cupped the edge of the book with his fingers and slowly lifted the cover about four centimeters with his thumb.

Posted by Josh (Member # 4394) on :

The second edit fixes a lot of what I would've commented on in the first version. For some reason while reading through it, a lot of the "was"s stuck out to my eye. Just that niggling little passive verbage. Maybe fiddle with it to cut those out or replace them with more active choices?

But good edit. Makes me want to read more and find out what's going on.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

There are two basic systems for writing Chinese currently in use, one is traditional and the other is simplified. Both are referred to as "Chinese" and "characters".

More generally, you need to find something else to describe other than that the instructions were written in Chinese. Your POV doesn't find anything unusual about them being in Chinese, he wouldn't bother to notice it. You need to find something about the instructions that would be unusual to him. For instance, perhaps the writing is traditional characters carefully drawn in a strong bronze script rather than casual simplified characters. Maybe, taking the previous discussion at face value, the instructions are written out phonetically in pinyin or bopomofo (don't remember what that's called in English) and Al has trouble reading it (and wonders why it's written that way).

In any case, if you personally don't know anything about Chinese, then it's a problem element in your story. Do a bit of research or drop that element.

Posted by berserc (Member # 4273) on :

Thanks survivor, good advise. I'm pretty sure Al wouldn't comment the type of writing, good call. I think I'll introduce the Chinese element later in the story.

I think that some of us, me especially, try to cram too much into the opeing of the story. Maybe we need to let things unfold their own way. Maybe we are just trying to force too much too soon. Just a thought, but that's the way a lot of comments I've seen in the forum seem to go.

Thanks for your time, this was great feedback.

--
Berserc

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

You could note that the information on the handbook was spelled out in English, though. It would even be cogent to note that it couldn't be spelled out very easily in Chinese.

quote:
His gaze returned to the bold English lettering on the handbook: Albert Hansen | United States, Chicago | 1968. Concise, simple, and not easily rendered in Chinese, the title spoke of....