Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Fantasy short story, second try at first 13

This is topic Fantasy short story, second try at first 13 in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Hakaisha (Member # 4177) on :

I hope this version does a better job of showing the POV and what the MC is doing. This is the first story I've really written so any constructive criticism is greatly appreciated. I think the grammar is alright, but please point out any mistakes. Thanks!

*
From the vantage point of a rugged cliff, Takeshi stared down at the fishing village dotting the white sand beach. At any other time, he probably would have marveled at the beauty of the sea, but not today. The only thing on his mind was the village and what it may hold. There was a good chance the beach below would be the site of his first battle with a supernatural beast and he was eager to put his years of martial training to the test.

As much as Takeshi wanted to rush to the beach and call out his opponent, he knew that would be incredibly reckless. Besides, the veteran demon slayers leading this mission would never allow it. They had traveled to this remote area of the Muroki Kingdom to dispatch a roving Samebito killing the local fishermen.

Posted by quantumphotonkid (Member # 4150) on :

I like this version a lot better. There's no POV problem. The only gripe I have is that for the first paragraph and a half it sounds like Takeshi is alone. Maybe it's just me, but I hate scenes that suddenly go "oh yea, and these other guys have been here the whole time."

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Um...the POV character seems a bit unreliable.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

The story isn't hooking me. I think it's because Takeshi isn't struggling. He's treating this as a sporting match. That's cool for sporting matches, but I want to see a struggle, a conflict, something that puts Takeshi through an emotional wringer, I think.

I no longer find it as confusing. There's still some ordering problems: Takeshi stared (why?). He isn't marveling at the beauty (why?). The only thing on his mind was the village (why?), and what it may hold (what?). Later on I find he's not alone. I'd rather find out that he's demon hunting; in a team; then get the details of the village.

But mostly I want to care, which probably means making Takeshi scared.

Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :

I read this version first, and then read the earlier post. This is much cleaner.

I agree with the others that it feels like he's alone at first, and that he seems to feel like this is a sporting event.

On the latter point: he's "eager", but I can't tell whether I should dislike his arrogance, or feel sorry for his naivete, or exactly what. I feel like you might have a character story brewing in here, but I can't see the character well enough. (And if you're really trying to write an action story, maybe you need to start with action rather than anticipation.)

You can probably cut a lot. One example: "From the vantage point of a rugged cliff, Takeshi stared down at..." can become "Takeshi stared down from the rugged cliff toward..." (8 words vs. 12). There are more, and I'll show you what I mean if you like. Cutting 25% or so will increase the pace.

You might consider rewording some of the sentences with "to be" verbs (about 30% of your total right now).

Your POV seems more-or-less omniscient. "At any other time, he probably..." is borderline third-person limited, but add to it "The only thing on his mind was..." and you've suddenly got a combination that can't be from Takeshi's perspective. (I suppose it _could_, but it's a stretch; if the only thing on his mind was the village, he wouldn't be thinking about how he would normally marvel at the beauty of the sea.) You could plant yourself more solidly in 3rd-person limited by making Takeshi "ignore" the sea's beauty -- an active way of not marveling -- and "concentrate" on the village.

This wasn't a major issue for me, but I noticed it. Whether I would have noticed it if I weren't in "critique mode" is another question.

Regards,
Oliver

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

Generally, revise in your original post otherwise you have people like me who spent a lot of time working on it only to find out there is another version which makes most of my work useless. Sigh.

Okay, I have a better sense of where I am but you still dwell too long on things that don't hook me. Takeshi is a bit two dimensional. The only thing I know about him is that he's a bit stupid or very niave and young. He notices the beauty of the setting even if he doesn't "marvel" at it and he wants to rush into his first engagement with a "supernatural beast."

Tell me the beast is a demon when you first mention it. Cut to the chase. I have no sense of worry or anything other than bravado.

What I want/need to know:

1)Who is with Takeshi?
2) what are they doing?
3) what are they going to fight?
4) what does Takeshi feel about this?

Show me he's eager don't tell me. Is he fiddling with his reigns? Is he rebuked by an older demon slayer? Does he whistle? Does sweat trickled between red lacquired breast plates? What?

I might hold off on calling the demon a "Samebito" because I don't know what that is i.e. the word has no meaning to me.

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

Honestly, I liked the first version better. It had some flavor to it. This one isn't that interesting to me. It's missing all the flavor of your original version.

Just goes to show, you can't please all the people all the time.

If you want readers for the whole story, hit me up. pdavid574@hotmail.com

Posted by Hakaisha (Member # 4177) on :

Again, I apologize for starting a second post (I won’t do it in the future!)

Thanks for all the great feedback. Now that I have some first impression critiques, I want to share more of the story to show what it is I am trying to set up. The setting is a fantasy world based on feudal Japan (I really enjoy Japanese history, and Chinese and Japanese mythology). I intended the story to be in third-person, but I guess I still need more practice (Damn ten years of writing scientific reports ). This is a character story about the foolishness of youth; hence, Takeshi thinks he’s invincible (‘It can’t happen to me.’). I am by no means trying to preach to anyone, I just want to tell a story about the realization that some young people have when it becomes chillingly apparent that they are not invincible (I know the incident that showed me my mortality was rather jarring). This is why Takeshi appears to be arrogant and too eager to fight.

As for some specific responses;
*I couldn’t figure out how to point out that Takeshi wasn’t alone in the first paragraph without messing with the POV.
*The ‘sweet’ smell of the ocean from the first version might be better described as ‘sickly sweet’, like coastlines that have a lot of upwelling. Then again, maybe it was just a crappy description.
*It seems to be really difficult to give everyone what he or she want in 13 lines and have it make any sense. Who is Takeshi? Where is he? Why is he there? What is he fighting? Why does the reader care?

All this feedback is great and really makes me think about my writing, and the fact that it still needs a lot of work. *sigh*

Wetwilly, thanks for the offer to read this story, I’ll definitely hit you up as soon as I go through it again and try to tighten up the POV

Posted by januson (Member # 4194) on :

that first sentence--"From the vantage point of a rugged cliff, Takeshi stared down at the fishing village dotting the white sand beach"--would probably work better without even including that first phrase about the cliff, being much more direct

odd detail some might not mind, but in a world where there are "veteran demon slayers" they would probably not have a word like "supernatural"

and, that last sentence--"They had traveled to this remote area of the Muroki Kingdom to dispatch a roving Samebito killing the local fishermen"--seems almost too direct, not fitting too well with the rest. perhaps you could go with something about the samebito killing the fishermen in more detail, tying it gradually into the travel. this sentence has too much to do and does it too plainly

otherwise, a good beginning

Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :

I agree that it's tough to pack everything you need into the first 13 lines -- so maybe you don't pack it all in. Maybe, instead of putting more in, consider telling us a little less, just enough to set a hook.

Maybe. I'm not published yet, either.

quote:
*I couldn’t figure out how to point out that Takeshi wasn’t alone in the first paragraph without messing with the POV.

How about something like this?

quote:
Takeshi stared down from the rugged cliff, examining the little fishing village on the white sand beach. He ignored the beauty of the sea, the grumbling of his nine companions, the heat of the sun: everything but the village, and the Samebito demon that hid inside.

I hope that shows a principle that you can use. It's not the best it could be, for several reasons:

First, you know what the hook is, and I don't, and it would be best to set the hook here.

Second, you might be more vivid: there's a white strand and a green or blue sea and a sky, and all I see is generic "beauty"; the nine companions can be specified better.

Third, you can let us see this through his eyes, giving his impressions of what he's seeing or what he's ignoring, by using stronger or more specific words.

...but I see that as a good thing: I avoided rewriting you.

Good luck,
Oliver

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

Well you are never going to give everyone what they want.

quote:
Who is Takeshi? Where is he? Why is he there? What is he fighting? Why does the reader care?

These questions don't need to be answered in detail in the first 13. It's enough for me to know that Takeshi is a warrior and on his first mission to slay a demon. Oliver's suggestion answers all five questions in two sentance and the best part about it is that his suggestion is only one possible way to do it.

If you sink into Takeshi's head a bit more some of the questions are going to get answered naturally based on his impressions. If this is his first campaign ALL he's going to be thinking about is it.

Make me feel invincible with Takeshi. Maybe the veterans are muttering about how difficult this demon could be while Takeshi is thinking "school book" i.e. "We ride in and cut its head off. Simple. What are they worried about?" He's going to be looking at the houses and trying to figure out where the demon is. He's also going to be annoyed that he has to sit up here with the horses while the other 7 dispatch the demon. If he is annoyed, letting me know this is going to be important especially if he's going to ingore orders and try to take the demon on v. being in its way when it flees the others.

As an example, I have a POV in my WIP that's a spy. She notices details: what a person is wearing; the room; threats and; possible escapes. In her POV the reader gets a detailed description of people and such. A different MC doesn't notice things like that (he's much more "self" centered in his world view. So, while she can tell me the gems in the dress are diamonds and emeralds, he'd only notice they flashed white and green.

You have the start of a great story. We like it or we wouldn't bother investing so much time in the feedback. Try to strip down what you have to its essential elements. What do we need to know?
We need to know:

1) Takeshi is part of a group of demon slayers
2) They are about to tackle one that's hiding in a fishing village
3) He's young, inexperienced and gun-ho
4) Takeshi is the POV.

That's it. You can do #3 by his perceptions or by having a line of dialog where he is rebuked for his impatience or whatever.

Keep working on it you are on the right track

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I have to dissent, especially about the "why should the reader care?" part. If you can't show the reader why care, he won't care, and he won't keep reading.

The urgency in the first 13 is not to explain the whole story. It's to explain what's going on at that very moment (and make us want to read on). Consider the difference in

quote:
Charles stared down the road outside the diner. No one was coming. He took out his cell phone, then put it back in his pocket and went back inside.
The game was on: the Dodgers, 15-12...

and

quote:
Charles stared down the road outside the diner. Deanna should have been here by now. Had her husband Tom found out about the two of them? He had a horrible temper. Charles had many times been tempted just to break it off, before the worst happened...

OK, maybe even #2 wasn't great writing, but in this case, we know exactly what's happening in that moment. I didn't tell you that we were going to find Deanna brutally murdered and the cops are going to think Charles did it, or about the space aliens that are going to land on page 15 :O. But you have no reason to be confused about what's happening right now, what Charles is distressed about, and if you can stand to read about an adulterer, you might even be hooked.

Posted by JBSkaggs (Member # 2265) on :

The conflict between Takeshi and his companions could be shown rather than summarized. You could show them arguing about attacking now and calling the demon out. Let the boy show himself as being inexperienced by arguing with the veterans and let the veterans teach him a lesson.

You could get a couple pages or even a chapter out of the conflict on how best to handle the demons by itself.

Back when Piers Anthony was writing fun stuff and before he got weird and strange (and librarians pulled his books) he made the statement "The threat of a dragon is better than the dragon itself in creating suspense."

In other words these men's arguments could really build some suspense about the demon. Plus it would give us a great intro to their methods and characters. It wouldn't be in the first thirteen lines of but you could lead up to it.

Just a thought
JB Skaggs

Posted by Hakaisha (Member # 4177) on :

Ooohh

I like these ideas. Thanks.

Posted by berserc (Member # 4273) on :

I like the imagry in the opening, however I was not impressed with the 'martial training' comment in the first graph. I think using 'skills' or 'gifts' might be a better, more subtle hook that keeps us guessing as to what the protagonist can accomplish in battle.

But I wanted to read more from this 13.

--
berserc

Posted by Ellepepper (Member # 3520) on :

I found the opening 'clear' but far from concise. What I mean is this, I understood the words, there were no really tricky constructions...etc. But what I don't have is a reason to care.

I tend to be an emotional reader, right now, it feels like a travelogue, which doesn't intrest in me. Play up the tension, play down the humdrum. I mean, have any of the 'experienced' companions threatened to throw him to this beast in their annoyance? How do they deal with a somewhat starstruck newbie? I get the feeling that this is all boring to him, if so, what would he classify as action?