Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Erik Heart (dark paranormal fantasy) 114,344 words

This is topic Erik Heart (dark paranormal fantasy) 114,344 words in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

The first 13 lines of my novel, enjoy!

Chapter One

“This is a new day for me,” I said to the mirror. “I know you’re not there... but I’m starting at a new school. I’m in high school, understand?” I pulled on my shirt to button it. “I’m with this nice family. I guess you can call it a perfect family, since some perfect kid equals perfect family, but I’m not saying you’re not perfect!” I bit my lip as I fiddled with the buttons. “Sometimes I wonder why you gave me up in the first place. Since you had me, didn’t you love me?” I felt my face flush as I glanced up at my reflection. Staring back at me was this sad kid.
“Be happy that someone loves you,” a voice said faintly in my mind. I turned away.
“I… I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have asked that dumb question. How

Note from Kathleen: 13 lines of manuscript text (12-point courier font with 1-inch margins on 8.5x11-inch paper) please

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited February 06, 2006).]

Posted by TL 601 (Member # 2730) on :

If somebody's in the mirror, or if he can communicate with someone in the mirror, or if the mirror is some kind of doorway to some other world, I'm hooked.

If he's just talking to himself, I don't know what to make of it.

Posted by TL 601 (Member # 2730) on :

It also seems like he might be looking at himself, but speaking to his mother in the mirror?

If that's what's going on, it's terribly unclear.

Posted by Valtam2 (Member # 3174) on :

I'd agree. Try to make it a bit less confusing. It's hard to tell what's going on here.

Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

Well, 13 lines isn't enough to explain everything. It has an explaination on the rest of the page about what's happening, but it starts off with conversation... I have a hook from the middle of the novel that drew people into reading it, but since this forum is asking for the first 13 lines off the first page (I'm assuming this is correct), that's all I've got in regards to that.

Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :

Ahm, can I read all of it?

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

quote:
Well, 13 lines isn't enough to explain everything.

You can't possibly explain everything in thirteen lines. Don't try. The thing is, that doesn't mean that you can be confusing, either. Whatever you have in that thirteen lines has got to be crystal clear. If there's some mystery that can't be explained because, for example, the POV character doesn't know the explanation, then you have to show that his/her ignorance is the reason for the mystery. That's still being clear. But here, we simply can't tell what's happening. If clarifying it means that less happens so that the rest can be made clear, that's fine. Right now, I'm wondering whether anything at all has happened.

quote:
I have a hook from the middle of the novel that drew people into reading it

Sorry, a hook in the middle won't draw anybody into reading it, because they'll never get to the middle. The hook has got to be right up front. Well, more accurately, you don't need a hook per se; your first thirteen don't have to "grab" us, they have to make us want to read the next page, and that page must make us want to read on further.... It's quite possible that your starting scene is enough to make me read on, once I understand just what's really going on. But right now, I don't, and as a result, I wouldn't.

Posted by TL 601 (Member # 2730) on :

quote:
Well, 13 lines isn't enough to explain everything

I guess it's perfect. My mistake.

Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

Something that used to be here, now edited out. So there.

[This message has been edited by kaukusaki (edited February 06, 2006).]

Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

quote:
Sorry, a hook in the middle won't draw anybody into reading it, because they'll never get to the middle. The hook has got to be right up front. Well, more accurately, you don't need a hook per se; your first thirteen don't have to "grab" us, they have to make us want to read the next page, and that page must make us want to read on further.... It's quite possible that your starting scene is enough to make me read on, once I understand just what's really going on. But right now, I don't, and as a result, I wouldn't.

Meh, here's the first page in entirety... if that doesn't grab you, then I don't know what will.

Posted by TL 601 (Member # 2730) on :

Please read this: http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/002662.html

Then go here and read everything you can find: http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/cgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Please+Read+Here+First&number=6&DaysPrune=45&LastLogin=

Posted by Paul-girtbooks (Member # 2799) on :

Soon as Kathleen gets around to checking this out, she'll slash and burn it, 'cause you don't EVER post more than thirteen lines.

And I agree with everyone else: ain't NOBODY gonna give you to the middle of a book to grab their interest.

Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :

I was offering to read it. I didn't mean you needed to paste the whole first page. Email me the first chapter if you like.
sevans105@cfl.rr.com

Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

Jeez, you people sure are touchy. [rolls eyes] Well, if you all aren't interested in reading it, it's your choice. I got a a few favorable reviews on this novel from complete strangers (not counting my family and friends) and I have an excerpt from the MIDDLE of the book and it catches their attention, making them want to read from the beginning of why all this stuff is happening.

P.S. I already read that post. Meh

[This message has been edited by kaukusaki (edited February 06, 2006).]

Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

What I don't get is why you all need the first 13 lines of a book. (In my opinion, you don't need everything in an instant like oatmeal!) Maybe that's the way you all read, but I usually read the first chapter. If that doesn't interest me, then I put the book away. If the chapters are short, I give it the first 25 pages. Maybe that's just me.

Posted by TL 601 (Member # 2730) on :

I can't help but wonder if there wouldn't be a better workshop out there for you.

In my opinion, you haven't handled the critiques you've received here very well. Rather than thank the people who took the time to offer what they hoped was helpful advice about your work, you've rejected their critiques with a fair degree of prejudice. You haven't followed the rules of F&F (or even, apparently, taken the time to read them carefully enough to understand them).

Bottom line: You don't like the rules, and it seems as if you think your story was above criticism.

If your writing is above criticism, then you have no reason to be here.

If you're above following the rules, then you have no reason to be here.

I'm sure there's a workshop out there with no rules, and where you will receive nothing but wild praise for your stories. When you find it, let me know! I'll join you there. It sounds like paradise.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

The most appropriate response to a critique you don't agree with and have no intention of using is "Thank you."

I also felt confused by the opening. I don't like the feeling. However, if the mirror is really talking ot him, that's cool.

[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited February 06, 2006).]

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

If you want more information on "why 13 lines", look here. In your "introduce yourself" post you mentioned that you were interested in being published by a real publishing house. That means you have to impress editors, not casual readers who know that your book has already been approved by some one who presumably knows what they are doing (i.e., the editor you need to impress). Such editors are not going to give your book an entire first chapter to decide not to read on.

It's your choice.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

"Thank you" is also good for critiques that you do intend to incorporate into your story.

Posted by kaukusaki (Member # 3217) on :

All I was stating was my opinion and I handle criticism well enough. I haven't rejected anything and I was just thinking out loud. (I'm allowed to think, aren't I?)
I thought I followed the rules well enough and I did take the time to read the posts. (I have read it over at least 3 times already). Don't assume what I think and don't put words in my mouth. And I never stated that my story was above criticism.

Posted by Homeworld (Member # 3136) on :

Re: [kakusaki] "I have a hook from the middle of the novel that drew people into reading it...

[rickfisher] Sorry, a hook in the middle won't draw anybody into reading it, because they'll never get to the middle."

Well, both comments *can* be true, since you're each saying something different. The original comment was "I have a hook FROM the middle," not IN the middle. This sounds (potentially) fine to me. If you can hook the reader on the first page successfully enough to make them want to keep reading, with at least partial "hook fulfillment" being served up by the middle of the book, then kudos to you. I've read plenty of excellent books where a hook in the first page wasn't fulfilled until the last page.

That said, in this particular example of the first 13 lines, I don't feel hooked. There's simply nothing for me to grab on to. I feel confused, disconnected, and like I've come late to a party that I'm not sure why I'm visiting at all.

The hook has to be successful in the first thirteen lines (the first manuscript page, if you prefer), so I must agree with rickfisher. kakusaki, no disrespect, but in all honestly, I might give this story another half-page simply because I don't like to ever feel as though I don't understand what's happening. (Most of the film "The Usual Suspects" was torture for me, but ultimately became one of my favorite movies.) I don't believe an editor/agent/publisher/most readers will be that generous.

Check Writer's Market or publisher's online submission guidelines. I've found that they all prefer maybe a dozen different submission formats -- query letter, one-page synopsis, first chapter, first three chapters, first 50 pages, etc. -- but to rickfisher's point, none of them are going to get past the first page if they aren't somehow hooked IN that first page (or at least given the impression that there's hook potential in the extremely near future). Their request for anything more than the first page doesn't mean they'll necessarily read it -- just that if they get past the first page at all, they're counting on the rest to help them make a solid Accept/Pass decision.

-KMB

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

kaukusaki, you have some interesting writing here, but the clarity problem is real.

On the other subject, you're fairly new here. That means that you should be trying to figure out how things work rather than telling everyone here that they're full of it. Learning to do that will serve you well any time you find yourself in a new place.

In any case, if you do decide to start an argument with the entire forum, you'll need KDW's consent. And you're not likely to get it on this particular issue.

Posted by duv2 (Member # 3026) on :

I found a visit to your Web page http://www.lulu.com/meriueza informative, especially the link to your blog.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Oh...

Um...

Look, Lulu lets you revise on the fly, since they do the printing on demand, right? So it isn't true that there is absolutely no point in your posting here in the first place. But...er, a lot of people will disagree with that.

I'm not going to say anything else about it.