Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Title Undecided - Genre is Historical & Futuristic Fiction.

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Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

Hm. Sorry for the low quality of this...especially the 2nd paragraph. I just kinda came up with the idea today, and this is the first draft of the first 13 lines.

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Raiiv, the peaceful island. To the world at that time, these people would have been freaks. If they had been found. But the Raiizen had been successful in hiding their country for hundreds of years. Before the year 1000, they had kept communication with other countries. Then there was a technological breakthrough. Raiiv and its citizens would be in grave danger if the world found out. So contact was cut off immediately. The closer countries were too mystified to think that they should investigate, the further countries were too far to investigate, even if they wanted to. This worked greatly to the Raiizens' advantage. They would not have to risk their families, they would be safe as long as no one intruded upon the land. And, after almost 600 years, not a single outsider had set foot on Raiiv. Except for one.

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So...constructive criticism welcome, along with any comments or suggestions. ^-^ Thanks in advance!

PS
To explain the genre, its based in the past, but the people are very futuristic compared to the other races around them, so its kind of historical and futuristic at the same time..? And its fiction. So it works for me.

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 30, 2005).]

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

quote:
constructive criticism welcome, along with any comments or suggestions

My suggestion is: spend some time offering helpful critiques to others on the boards, not just submitting your own stuff. Learn correct grammar. Spend some time studying professional advice. Uncle Orson's Writing class is excellent, as are a number of good books on writing. One of the reasons there is an age limit in this forum is that young writers do not yet have a good grasp on the basics. Your use of grammar shows you need to focus on the fundamentals of writing. Hope this helps.

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

I know that the grammar isn't correct, but it doesn't flow correctly for me when it is. It's just a personal thing. Thanks though.

EDIT: I'll try those out. =) Also, this is a rough draft, that I just finished,so there's probably a lot of mistakes I haven't caught yet. Sorry about that.
Y'know, I've never gotten why a sentence can't begin a sentence with "and" or "but". =/

[This message has been edited by x__sockeh__x (edited December 27, 2005).]

Posted by Omakase (Member # 2915) on :

Posting "rough drafts" and expecting insightful critiques is asking a bit much.
If you can't even spend the time to clean up your own material why should anyone else?

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

quote:
If you can't even spend the time to clean up your own material why should anyone else?

Exactly right.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

Well, I'll give you a critique on this -- and thank you for the comments you've given me.

I don't find the idea of hiding a whole country plausible.

I don't find it plausible that other countries would notice it vanished and not bother to investigate.

There is a "technological breakthrough"; I suspect you didn't name it because you haven't decided on it yet.

You might go ahead and do your invention; imagine it all as fully as possible; then come back to us (quite possibly with a full story).

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

What's wrong with a rough draft? The other story I have posted on here is still a rough draft, my stories are always open to changes and probably will undergo changes.

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

The feedback is far more useful when you have a draft that you think is done and you need somebody to find what you are too blind to see. In fact, there is only one instance where I posted anything incomplete, and that was where I struggled for literally months to find the right voice for the story. I was also quite explicit about why I posted something incomplete and I still got several complaints. The difference here is that I finally finished that story and mailed it to Analog.

Posted by The Fae-Ray (Member # 3084) on :

I think the sentences seem, well, too broken up. Not broken up in the sense that they move on from one subject, but there are no commas to divde sentences, only periods. Not a serious crime, but it is a tad annoying.

Another thing I want to mention is that you say "If they had been found." but then you say "The closer countries were too mystified to think that they should investigate." To me, that implies that they could investigate, which means the other countries know where it is and have access to it. And like has been said before, it would be hard to conceal a whole country. Time frame could have a lot to do with this, but with all these satellites wandering around snapping pictures of planets, it's hard to hide.

Of course, we haven't yet been told what this new technology is, but you say that hiding this new technology will basically keep them all safe. Is this technology something so innovative, such a big breakthrough, that it would be dangerous to show to other countries? Or is the technology a danger in itself (like a bomb or whatever)?

One last thing.

You switch POV in the second paragraph, which is fine. I just think that it would be helpful if you added another space in there, because I generally associate single spaced paragraphs as a continuation, not as a whole other part. That's just me though, so it's not a huge deal.

The basic idea of the story sounds pretty cool, however, and if you fixed some of the things mentioned it wouln't turn out that bad.

When you have your final draft ready I'd like to read it, if that's okay. ^.^

[This message has been edited by The Fae-Ray (edited December 27, 2005).]

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

"If you can't even spend the time to clean up your own material why should anyone else?"

I'm not asking for editors.

Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :

I think this is why the forum is supposed to be for writers 18 and over.

Posted by The Fae-Ray (Member # 3084) on :

18 year olds fight too, pantros.

Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :

Who said anything about fighting?

My point was the unprofessional manner of the original poster. Anyone who submits anything for someone else to read should have the decency to have read over it once themselves and fixed the blaring errors in grammar, punctuation and spelling. Not to shows disprespect for the reader. It also says that they don't really care about their work so why should we.

So, I'm guessing by your adolescent tone that you are about the same age as the kid who started this thread. There will always be fights as long as writers get defensive over their work. It's hard to step back, wait for multiple critisms then walk away and think about it before the rewrite. Its far easier to assume we were right and they were wrong and to scream defensively, then walk away in a huff, having learned nothing.

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

"It's hard to step back, wait for multiple critisms then walk away and think about it before the rewrite. Its far easier to assume we were right and they were wrong and to scream defensively, then walk away in a huff, having learned nothing."

...What? No, I actually agree with most of the people here, and I edited it and such already. o.o;;

Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :

Why not share your version where the grammar was correct. It seems to me that you might want to get suggestions on how to fix the flow issue while maintaining correct grammar. Without both good grammar and flow a story is built on a poor foundation, and no matter how wonderful your characters and plot are the story won't be enjoyable to read.
And sentences can be started with "and" or "but" once you know how to do it correctly.

[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited December 28, 2005).]

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

"Why not share your version where the grammar was correct. It seems to me that you might want to get suggestions on how to fix the flow issue while maintaining correct grammar. Without both good grammar and flow the story is built on a poor foundation, and no matter how wonderful your characters and plot are the story won't be enjoyable to read. "

Okay, I'll try that...the good version is saved on my laptop though, just let me switch computers.

Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :

I very specifically did not aim that statement at anyone in particular. It is just a tendancy of all new people to the board to respond to every post on their threads and either defend their story or change it right away.

Both responses are actually wrong.

Let the story sit until it stops recieving feedback then absorb all the feedback, toss out what you think is wrong and adjust your story based on the feedback you think is right.

Meanwhile read what everyone else has written, what other people have said about it and offer your two cents.

The first paragraph about unprofessional presentation was aimed at an audience more inclusive of you, Bean.

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

Raiiv, a peaceful island. To the world at that time, the people would have been freaks. That is, if they had been found, but the Raiizen had been successful in hiding their country for hundreds of years. Before the year 1000, they had kept communication with other countries. Then there was a technological breakthrough, the changing of their society with connection, transportation, things like we know - computers, telephones, radios, etc. Raiiv and its citizens would be in grave danger if the world found out their technology, the greed of the world their threat. So contact was cut off immediately. The closer countries were too scared to think that they should investigate; the further countries were too far to investigate, even if they wanted to. This worked greatly to the Raiizens' advantage. They would not

-------

Okay, well, it cuts off there. I hope I've fixed most of the grammatical errors. ^^;;

Edit: Does anyone know why you can't indent on the forum? o.o;;

[This message has been edited by x__sockeh__x (edited December 28, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 30, 2005).]

Posted by The Fae-Ray (Member # 3084) on :

"So, I'm guessing by your adolescent tone that you are about the same age as the kid who started this thread. "

All I said was that it was silly to assume that people are young when they get into disagreements. Opinion isn't always based on age, remember.
And I think your assumptions are too early on in the board. All that she said was that she didn't understand why she couldn't post a rough draft. She didn't say that the ones giving her critisism were stupid. Reading the board over a little more clearly would show you that she thanked them for their suggestions. I think before you start to blame her for being too young, you should get your facts right (and no, this isn't meant to sound rude. )

As well, please don't blame others for things like sounding young. It makes you seem intolerant. You also seem to assume that she just wrote the paragraph and posted it without looking at it once. Many people read over what they have written before they post, even if it is a rough draft. She could very well have read it over and not noticed any grammatical errors.

And I'd just like to point out that I find it offensive that you think I'm a young kid because I said that 18 year olds argue. I was making a point, not being childish.

That's all I'm going to say for now. I really don't mean to be rude to you, if that's how you've taken this.

EDIT -
Sorry if anything I've posted is out of date. A multitude of posts were made as I was writing this.

[This message has been edited by The Fae-Ray (edited December 28, 2005).]

Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :

Actually the first 13 ends at "This worked greatly to the Raiizens' advantage. They would not.."

Please go over the rules: Courier 12 pt, 1 inch margins.

You have a bouncy PoV, Drop it all to First Person.

Get rid of the whole first paragraph and instill this information into the rest of the story as it is needed. Your actual story starts after the first 13 that you should have posted.

Start with Reyun. We really don't need the history lesson. Your story should tell us what we need to know to understand the story as it unfolds. We don't need all the details just the ones pertinant to the MC's dilema (the plot).

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

Oh. Really? Could've sworn I had it that face & size and such. o.o;; Sorry about that.
But yeah, thanks for the advice, I'll try to incorporate some of it. ^_^

Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :

Why yes, I am intolerant. Thanks for noticing. Don't take it personally that I think you are young because of your style. Face the facts: You are young and your style screams it. I am sure both you and your style will mature.

Don't for a second believe that I think Fey doesn't belong here. Despite her youth, I think she is doing a great job of contributing to the board. Now, I'm done hijacking your mate's thread for a petty bicker. Both of you will likely develop well as writers. Keep at it.

Posted by The Fae-Ray (Member # 3084) on :

"Why yes, I am intolerant. Thanks for noticing. Don't take it personally that I think you are young because of your style. Face the facts: You are young and your style screams it. I am sure both you and your style will mature.
Don't for a second believe that I think Fey doesn't belong here. Despite her youth, I think she is doing a great job of contributing to the board. Now, I'm done hijacking your mate's thread for a petty bicker. Both of you will likely develop well as writers. Keep at it."

I'll take those all as compliments. xD

Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :

It is fine to reveal information by "telling" as you do in your first paragraph, but you want to do it in the shortest tightest wording possible. I think if you work on it, you could start by combining your first three sentences into one. Instead of rereading what you have already written, just say outloud what you want the reader to hear--sometimes that works for me when I need to combine sentences.
There is an active thread over in the discussion area that has some good information on starting stories. You may want to read KatFeets post. That post may help you tighten these 13 lines even further.
I think the thread is "Just tell me" posted by briggs.

[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited December 28, 2005).]

Posted by DotcomRefugee (Member # 3088) on :

I agree with previous posts: the info dump at the beginning was a bit too much for me to bite off. It tells me what you want me to *know*, but it doesn't tell me why I should *care*. Interesting setting, and part of me wants to find out more, but only in an intellectual sense. It doesn't provide enough motivation to carry me through the rest of the story to find out.

My suggestion would be to start right off with an opening scene that conveys a sense of action or suspense. Drop me into the story at the place and time where the really interesting action starts. As a reader, I shouldn't have to know the history (even in brief) for the opening scene to be compelling. Make me want to find out what happens next to your first viewpoint character, and *then* I'll keep turning pages, whereupon you can reveal details that will make the story more intriguing.

For example: Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" starts off with a simple murder scene. A dead body with a strange symbol left on it. That's all. Nothing about elaborate secret societies or historical figures -- not YET.

There are more, but I'm sure you get the idea. I think this would also solve the POV jumping problem that others have mentioned here.

Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :

Thanks, DotcomRefugee. ^-^ That's really helpful, I'll keep that in mind.