Deira watched, a small cruel smile on her face, as the body of councilman Drakten's aide convulsed violently on the floor. She had forgotten the woman's name, but she had been loyal, surprisingly so. Most would have broke down and confessed anything under the stresses Deira excelled at inflicting. The woman had held out, and then laughed when Deira asked her to give her the information she needed. In the end she hadn't meant for the woman to die, but it seemed that she had misjudged what the woman could take, and she rarely saw anyone recover once the convulsions became this violent. She didn't like to kill, she preferred letting her victims live in fear, knowing she could return, fearing the pain they would feel when she did. Killing was wasteful, when they serve...
[This message has been edited by eclectic skeptic (edited December 20, 2005).]
Posted by apeiron (Member # 2565) on :
The one thing that struck me is that I don't understand why Diera is smiling. You mention two reasons for her NOT to be happy: -she didn't get the information she wanted -she accidently killed someone she didn't want dead
Also, I get that Deira's the bad guy (girl), but if she's my protag, I want to identify with her somewhat. At least a little motivation for the way she is or for what she's doing. It doesn't have to be in the first 13, but it should be soon!
Posted by eclectic skeptic (Member # 3046) on :
okay--this is really a hard question for me. But I just want to know what everyone's opinion is for what precisely should be covered in the first thirteen. Should I answer all potential questions and motives as far as possible, or can I leave some of it for the following paragraph. I ask mainly because alot of the motives and things that apeiron mentioned, happen almost immediately after this paragraph.
To me it is just really hard to cram all that into the first thirteen, so what I have been trying to do, is mainly try to get the reader interested, (hooked) by making them intrigued, by showing a unique idea of some sort, and then immediately answering some of the questions that were posed in the first thirteen.
Is this the wrong objective? And if it is the right one, have I accomplished it. If it is the wrong objective, what would be a better summation of creating that hook?
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
The first thirteen should interest the reader, not make them curious.
YOu do this by expressing the character clearly not by alluding to their possible motivations. Just tell us what they are thinking, what they know and what they want.
Posted by Dude (Member # 1957) on :
Making someone curious is one way to create interest in the reader. And, yes, you are trying to hook your reader. This story starts out pretty decently. I didn't offer to read because you didn't say what you were looking for or give a word count.
Posted by eclectic skeptic (Member # 3046) on :
Well, im just trying to learn, I have already learned alot just through reading through the posts, and critiquing where I thought I could. This document is 562 words long, it isn't finished. Im not really trying to create anything large right now, I just want to work on my skills, so I have been just reading posts, and trying to implement what I learn from them in small scenes like this one.
Eventually the character, Deira, who is just part of a larger story development I have been working on for something like three years now, will be incorporated into a trilogy. With such large aspirations, I decided to actually try to learn to write, before I try to perform this story. So I just have been practicing, small scenes and such, things that could be incorporated in some form later, but not really trying to write the book per se yet.
All this has been to explain that I have nothing large written yet, and when I post I am just looking for pointers and suggestions and whatever else you think would help me become a better writer.
When I critique anothers work, really I am confessing weaknesses of my own, feel free to tell me how I may be wrong.
Edited to say: Sorry I am new, I don't know the conventions yet, is it standard to include word count, and what I am looking for and such. I just thought I would leave it at my thirteen so that I didn't set up any expectations, and the reader got what they got because of the story and nothing else.
[This message has been edited by eclectic skeptic (edited December 20, 2005).]
Posted by The Fae-Ray (Member # 3084) on :
I do happen to disagree with a lot of the comments on this board, however...
Like what was mentioned before, it bothers me that at first your character is smiling, yet later on it talks about how little she likes to kill people.
And as for your question...
This is one thing I disagree with many people about on the board. Your first thirteen is just that. The first thirteen. There is hardly enough space to add in everything that you need to know. If you plan to get your short stories published you may have to work on this, but yeah. I personally find that a book is more interesting if you're learning more about the characters throughout the book. You get more attached to them that way. So I don't think you should use up the whole thirteen describing every aspect of your character and what your characters have done during their lives. Of course, that whole description of the past can be a useful manouver, it just doesn't hook the reader (well, readers like me, I guess) if there is nothing left for you to learn.
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
I'm not sympathetic to MC, and therefore don't care to see what happens to her.
You could probably fix this by giving us something good about her up front; although it will take a lot to offset cruelty. Maybe she doesn't want to and is being forced to.
Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :
"But I just want to know what everyone's opinion is for what precisely should be covered in the first thirteen."
Hm...that's tough. It depends on the genre, in my opinion. But usually, I'd say...at least a little bit of a hint of what the story will be about, maybe a very small bit of a character into...? I don't really need 'hooks', if the story sounds interesting, I want to read on. By the way -- if you're sending it out for others to read, I'll read it. ^-^
Posted by eclectic skeptic (Member # 3046) on :
question: I can tell you that Deira has had the worst childhood imaginable (think being raised by hannibal or some other equally evil person), she is good in her deepest heart, that is why I entitle this "A life in Hell" it was inflicted upon her, and she sometimes remebers being a different person. Now my question is, would it be beneficial to include some aspect of this in the first thirteen, thereby giving that motive mentioned by apeiron, and wbriggs. So that I could show you that it really is worth being sympathetic with her even though she is committing terrible atrocities herself?
Posted by x__sockeh__x (Member # 3069) on :
"question: I can tell you that Deira has had the worst childhood imaginable (think being raised by hannibal or some other equally evil person), she is good in her deepest heart, that is why I entitle this "A life in Hell" it was inflicted upon her, and she sometimes remebers being a different person. Now my question is, would it be beneficial to include some aspect of this in the first thirteen, thereby giving that motive mentioned by apeiron, and wbriggs. So that I could show you that it really is worth being sympathetic with her even though she is committing terrible atrocities herself?" Personally, the first 13 are already perfect. But maybe if you bumped part of it down a bit to make room for a childhood memory of her Father being terrible that reminds her of what she's currently going through? I think that'd work nicely...that's just me though. ^^;;
Posted by apeiron (Member # 2565) on :
No need to stick anything direct in the first 13, but maybe hint at some inner disgust by what she sees? Maybe a feeling even she doesn't really understand at the time? She could even attribute it to the fact that the person died, because she prefers them to live in fear. What she doesn't realize is that it is really causing harm that doesn't quite sit well with her.
I don't know, maybe that isn't even what you're going for. In a nutshell, my opinion is that you don't have to give away her life story or anything in the first thirteen. I just wouldn't have her smile, because I STILL don't understand why she is. If you've got a reason, and the story gives it soon after these lines, then ignore my comment. Writer's perogative.
Posted by Zodiaxe (Member # 3106) on :
Romance, Horror and Mystery you can get away with an aire of curiosity. Especially if you are writing a mystery, ie, Patricia Cornwell or Robert Parker, then you would want to leave a certain bit of mystery and curosity in the mind of reader. It gets the reader to question who, what, when, where, why and how. It allows them to take part in the mystery. If you present all the clues and answer all of the questions in the first paragraph then there is no need to read a book of that genre.
Think of the Mickey Spillaine or Dashiell Hammet novels... "I was sitting at my desk. I had two slugs me one a colt .45 and the other cheap Kentucky Burbon and in she walks, hell on high heels. I knew right then and there this dame was twelve miles of bad African road....."
At first you are thinking...damn, dude's shot and drunk. It appears that the more interesting part of the night and the novel already happened... and then, in walks the babe and nothing after that is what it seems to be.
You may go 3/4 of the book thinking this woman is one thing and then BAM! not what you thought. The entire time, up until the twist, you were fed clues - - some were red herrings - - and you still did not know anything about the woman.
If that is the effect you are looking for, something to cause the reader to go..."hmmmmm.... who is this person" keep the reader guessing, then by all means do not disclose everything or anything in the first 13 lines. Because, as the story starts to unfold, those details are made known.
Sci-fi, fantasy and some history... you may want to be a bit more detailed as to whom the audience is dealing and meeting. You can't go 37 pages and then spring on the audience that the main character is Billy the Kid, some supergenius wizard or some inter-galatic war lord.
Posted by BrianJKoch (Member # 2966) on :
Although your writing seems wordy to me, I would continue reading. I am intrigued by Deira. She's so evil, should would rather let her victim continue to live in terror than kill them.
