Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Threads That Bind

This is topic Threads That Bind in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

The men, women and children of Japan were few in number. But in the Era of Energy large populations were useless. More than anything, they wanted desperately to go to Mars, and so first had to lower the world population enough to get the majority of civilization away from the sacred planet they had all willingly tortured for years. Then the Earth would finally be free. And on Mars, they would be free.

Young Takuma Hori was swept up in the middle of it all, even though no-one really noticed him. He was heir to the most powerful man in the world, the Emperor, President and Dictator of the Japanese Empire.

He had been thinking for sometime now about what he was to say to his adoptive father the next time he got to see him. All he

[This message has been edited by rustafarianblackpolarbear (edited November 14, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 15, 2005).]

Posted by keldon02 (Member # 2398) on :

This is powerfully written, with many potential conflicts. It hooks me, but I perceive the first paragraph as just description.

How could you open it with a variation of the paragraph about Takuma Hori? How could you personalize the dichotomies from the first paragraph so he experiances them?

[This message has been edited by keldon02 (edited November 14, 2005).]

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

Okay, this is more than 13 lines, but you can see what the rest of the lines are from the post above anyway so it doesn't really matter, I hope. Here's my edit based on keldon's suggestions:

Takuma Hori stood at the window of the largest building in the world, looking out at Tokyo and wondering Do they even know who I am?

The men, women and children of Japan were few in number. But in the Era of Energy large populations were useless. More than anything, they wanted desperately to go to Mars, and so first had to lower the world population enough to get the majority of civilization away from the sacred planet they had all willingly tortured for years. Then the Earth would finally be free. And on Mars, they would be free.

Young Takuma was swept up in the middle of it all, even though no-one really noticed him. He was heir to the most powerful man in the world, the Emperor, President and Dictator of the Japanese Empire.

[This message has been edited by rustafarianblackpolarbear (edited November 15, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 15, 2005).]

Posted by keldon02 (Member # 2398) on :

From my perspective as a reader the second version hooks me better.

I wonder about the echoing sentences freeing the planet and freeing the people?

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I'm mildly hooked; either version. Version 2 seems cooler, because it starts with a *personal* hook.

I can't believe in this thing about needing to reduce the population before allowing emigration. Wouldn't it be the reverse? I'll need some convincing.

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

Why would it be the opposite? The idea in this story is ALL the civilizationalists LEAVING the Earth, hence the freedom. The reason for this is because the Earth, by this point in the future, has been so affected by humanity, it will need a chance to get back to normal without future human development. At least from a future-Japanese philosophy, that is.

Posted by sojoyful (Member # 2997) on :

"He was heir to the most powerful man in the world, the Emperor, President and Dictator of the Japanese Empire."

This sentence bugged me both times. I would rather learn this information sideways instead of having it actually stated to me.

It's kind of like saying, "Darth Vader was a very intimidating, powerful man," instead of watching him order people around and choke that guy at the beginning of Star Wars. The second works better because we see it. 'Show, don't tell.' *cringe*

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

So just "He was heir to Toshiro Hori."?

Posted by sojoyful (Member # 2997) on :

Not necessarily. If you said that, I wouldn't care (yet) because I don't know who that is. (And I don't have a word-for-word solution to give you. That, you have to find on your own.)

What I meant is that if you want us to know his father is powerful, prove it. Let him interact with his dad, or let us see his dad at work, or have him living in the decadent apartment earned by his dad's prestige, or have him swamped with the duties that he will one day take over from his father, etc. Rather than saying "his dad is powerful" and expecting me to buy that, show me.

BUT, don't just stop and give me a lump of description. That's not showing. That's describing. Just proceed with the story and show me within the tale as it unfolds.

Somebody help me. I'm having trouble saying this.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

No, sojoyful, you are saying it just fine. Show, don't tell applies here.

As the Emperor stormed down the corridor, everyone bowed to him, heads pressed against the floor, afraid to look up at his passing. One glance out of place could mean death, for the Emperor tolerated no insult.

"Honorable President, Lord of the Universe," said Character X. "I have a message for you."

This is a rough example of showing the dominance of the emperor through action, and identifying an unweildy title via dialog.

I think this is an example of what sojoyful is trying to get at.

Posted by sojoyful (Member # 2997) on :

I tried to tell you what I meant, and I wasn't succeeding. Elan showed you, and it worked much better.

A perfect example of what I was saying. Ha!

Posted by dreadlord (Member # 2913) on :

a perfect example, yes, in more ways than one, sojoy. It not only helped MR. Long And Hard To Pronounce Name over there,(blackpolarbeat or something like that) but it also probably helped you to "show, dont tell." ever think of it that way? the writer of the first thirteen is not the only person being helped on these posts, but, to some degree, so are the people helping the writer.

my two cents. (dont spend it all in one place)

Posted by sojoyful (Member # 2997) on :

Oh, I totally agree. I've only posted one question of my own, and from that I got a ton of ideas to mull over. But as far as technical improvement, I've gained tremendously from looking at other folks' work and participating in the discussions.

One theme in my WIP is "you can't learn in a vacuum" (ie, you can't learn from just yourself alone with nothing from outside yourself) and that definately applies here.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

I might make mention of a useful tool, since we are on the topic of learning from what's been posted. It never occurred to me until I'd been on this board for a long time to take advantage of the "SEARCH" feature of the board.

What a great resource! There are bajillions of posts about topics like "show don't tell" and "POV"... not to mention research goodies like: how long does it take maggots to appear in a dead corpse?

I benefit from using the search feature frequently.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

You can also research on the topic of redundant words... like using "dead" to describe the word "corpse."

Posted by keldon02 (Member # 2398) on :

"He was heir to the most powerful man in the world, the Emperor, President and Dictator of the Japanese Empire."

On the other hand this is rather poetic, in an epic style. You could almost imagine this being said by the royal herald.

Wondering about the concept of reducing the population and then leaving, I had to think about it for a while but I realized that this could be entirely possible in a future iteration of imperialistic Japanese culture blended with post-hippie 'green' culture. Had to really ponder it however as it is alien to the classic American culture.

[This message has been edited by keldon02 (edited November 16, 2005).]

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

Well we don't really have classical culture here since Australia is only about 280 years young. Ironically enough though, I think we may be the only country in the world that would gain anything from a larger population. We have the lowest person per square kilometer ratio in the world apparently.

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

hey Rasta,
Try 220 years.

What do you want here? Comments? Readers? How long is it?
I like the ideas presented in this piece.
And the last line was a great hook, although it has since been removed.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 16, 2005).]

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

I think this needs a lot of work. At this point, I don't see any kind of hook at all.

The busines about Japan's population being small is totally confusing to me. The population today is huge, so what happened to all the people? Why does the population need to be low to go to Mars? How is one both an emperor and a president?

Basically, I think you are starting the story at a totally inappropriate point. Nothing here is intriguing to me, only confusing.

All this business about low population and being emperor is necessary, but to me, just not more necessary that giving me something to care about. Right now, I don't care about the main character because I only know that he's the adopted son of an empire not explained sufficiently for me to have yet suspended disbelief.

I don't really have any suggestions at this point because I don't know where this is going.

Can you explain the premise of the story?

[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited November 17, 2005).]

Posted by lerxster (Member # 2827) on :

I got the picture of Takuma Hori looking over Japan from high up in a skyscraper.

I don't buy the isolation in 'Do they even ...'. Then we're into a descriptive paragraph. It feels abrubpt.

The descriptive paragraph confused me. I still don't know why they have to lower the world population. In order to go to Mars, why do they have to lower earth's population? Is mars the sacred planet (it sounds like Earth is, to me)? If they want to get the majority of the population away from earth, then why not just go to mars. It sounds like a chicken and the egg problem. To get to mars, they have to lower the population on earth. And, to lower the population on earth, they have to go to mars?

Hope that helps.

lerxster

Posted by Jakare (Member # 2960) on :

I just wanted to add my two cents.

I understand how everyone is talking about the "show, don't tell", but I also see that there is a little bit of a problem with that here. The son seems to at least view himself as unnoticeable, or of little or no consequence, in the shadow of his father. You can easily show that the father is powerful, and strong, but is that necessary in this part of the story?

I am interested in knowing if he is just eclipsed by his father's power, or if his identity is being hidden for some reason. If so, showing how he is hidden (by his father's influence, or his majesty) might be more appropriate in this situation.

I don't know if I made any sense, but I hoped it helped in some way.

[This message has been edited by Jakare (edited November 20, 2005).]

Posted by Ezuma (Member # 2646) on :

The very first paragraph confuses me, as it has a lot of others who have commented.

When is this Era of Energy? Why do they have to lower the population of Earth to get to Mars? How would they go about doing this?

If young Takuma feels unnoticed by everyone, including his adoptive father, why was he adopted in the first place?

-- Just my two cents.

[This message has been edited by Ezuma (edited November 22, 2005).]

Posted by samhaine3 (Member # 3023) on :

I like it. Though I might change "The men, women and children of Japan were few in number. But in the Era of Energy large populations were useless. More than anything, they wanted " to "These people, men, women and children of Japan, were so few in number and yet that didn't matter to any of them. After all, in the Era of Energy, large populations were useless anyway. What mattered was that they wanted..." Or something like that. Bring both paragraphs together and so the second isn't so preachy. But I would read your story. cya, Sam
Ps. From your story's POV, or what I had gathered from it, our political views differ, but still I would read it.

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

Thanks Sam. I'ma go finish the first chapter just for you right now. I don't know why, but praise get's me motivated soooo much!

Posted by samhaine3 (Member # 3023) on :

edited, neva mind.

[This message has been edited by samhaine3 (edited November 30, 2005).]

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

In my opinion, you don't need to answer the question of why the earth's population needed to be lowered in the first 13. It's cerainly a valid question, and one a reader would expect answered early. Come up with a strong answer, and you'll have a strong story in the works. (It could just be efficiancy. The world leaders knew they had to keep costs down moving to mars and decided they could cut the world's population by 80% in as little as a single generation....)

I do wonder very strongly about a man being both president and emperor. Don't drop it though, find an interesting way for that to work, somehow. In modern Japan, I've always understood the Emperor to be something of a figurehead. Perhaps they could have a president, too, the way England has a King/Queen and a Prime Minister. However, this man managed to secure both, which emphasises his power and overall coolness, etc.

I also wonder about the son of the presidential emperor feeling unnoticed. Certainly, he may feel that way, but I think he'd have his share of cameras in his face whenever in public. Does he feel seen, yet misunderstood to the point that no one understands who he really is?

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

Yeah he is pretty cool. But he's an evil evil b******! I don't know about cameras in his face, or a member of the Paparazzi (spelling?) game enough to mess with the son of the ruler of the world.

I don't know if I'm not supposed to just tell you guys what this is all about or try to show it in my 13 lines, but I guess I have to know.

Firstly, I'd like to clear this up:

quote:
The busines about Japan's population being small is totally confusing to me. The population today is huge, so what happened to all the people?

i killed them with a giant fork! But seriously, we're in an age of technology where many countries have now designed jets that fly themselves from a command station back in the homeland. AND this story is set a few more decades from now. So they had a war (no WMD's involved, sorry) and didn't see logic in mass breeding for once. It would just be illogical.

And Japan is in the middle of this war, so why, when they have their entire population concentrated in an area that could be wiped out in TOW MORE WMD's, would they bother to encouraging having a bunch more babies to feed unneccessarily, when the newborns lives would be most in danger? Also, we all know poverty causes over-population and vice-versa, so is it really so hard to believe the future will not have a recession after this already huge world population boost we've been having?

Toshiro Hori is the champion of Japan from the war who was honourable enough to be made Emperor of Japan, and also smart enough to be granted dictatorial powers in what the important age of going to Mars under Japanese leadership. You're all right about the "Emperor, President and Dictator of the Japanese Empire" bit. I suppose he could just as easily be the dictatorial Emperor, with no need for a President in Japan at the time.

I hope that clarifies things a bit. Anyone else who wants to read the first chapter, say so.

Edit: I think I'll do what JK Rowling does with the Harry Potter books, and just show an interesting bit on the back of the book when it's published. And the first thirteen lines might need to be changed to a different lcation, too. I originally didn't plan for it to seem like a giant skyscraper scene, and when it was pointed out I liked it at first, but now realise I need a more active and/or suspenseful scene.

[This message has been edited by rustafarianblackpolarbear (edited December 01, 2005).]

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

quote:
I think I'll do what JK Rowling does with the Harry Potter books, and just show an interesting bit on the back of the book when it's published.

Don't fool yourself into thinking you'll have this sort of control. Once the publisher has paid you for your product, it becomes theirs to do with as they like, and that includes the marketing... which means the back cover blurb. Successful authors with a track record may have a lot of say in who does the art and writes the book jacket copy. First time authors may not get that lucky. You can't plan on the book jacket to give the reader crucial information.

Posted by sojoyful (Member # 2997) on :

Really? I always assumed I would get to write the back-cover blurb.

And pick my own cover art... I don't want any big-chested warrior women in metal bustiers and short leather skirts! Contrary to what fantasy cover artists seem to think, most women are NOT that well-endowed, and that is NOT appropriate fighting attire.

Posted by rustafarianblackpolarbear (Member # 2638) on :

Actually we could. My friends and I own a fiction magazine here in Perth. Every year we publish an anthology, though only on a local scale, which manages to sell rather well. So I don't see why a novel written by me culdn't be successfully published the same way.