Hopefully this last one is the keeper.

[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited September 14, 2005).]
 

Second, there's no reason why you can't make 3rd person just as deep inside the character's heads as first person; for me it is easier to do 3rd deep than 1st, because the 1st person narrator tends to grate on me. In my stuff; maybe you can pull it off. I'm not very good at 1st. But it's not true that 1st person inherently puts you deeper in the character's head; it's a lot of work to do it right.

Third, I'm just surprised and amused to see you with such a potty mouth! Go Autumn!

[This message has been edited by Beth (edited September 13, 2005).]
 

When he steals them, he knows nothing about them beyond their value, yet now he knows they were used to treat an illness he had as a child. That didn't work for me. I think the exposition about why Starbursts are valuable can probably wait. It isn't germane to this stage of the story.

I often read stories that have a coda at the end, and they annoy me. That's just me, mind. I think keep it in the same tense for the protagonist's death--I don't see it being a problem.

There's a nice irony in someone who stole Starbursts being sentenced to gathering them. Made me wonder if he was going to escape with a shipment of them after all...but not when he's dead, I guess!
 

The other thing to consider with the language is that ideally I would like to sell this to OSC, and he already told me the zine would probably not be rated R.

So I guess I have to tone it down again.

I'm just so torn as to what's appropriate for this story.

Normally, I don't write about shit too much, so the language isn't an issue. After this story, I probably won't write another one like it for that reason. It really does bother me. But I want to be true to the character in this instance.
 

So, what to do? If this word is a regular part of your character's lexicon, then it really shouldn't be watered it down; but if it's not true to the story, or hinders your creativity in any way, then don't use it.

The only thing that broke the narrative for me was the last two lines, where it felt that info might've been revealed too soon. (But that's just my take.)

Other than that, I thought this was a very effective opening.

[This message has been edited by Varishta (edited September 13, 2005).]
 

Here, hand those concerns over to me. I'll be your designated worrier if you want. I shall begin fretting immediately.

But not having read it yet...

Actually, I'd be delighted to read your next go-round with this one, so put me on your short list, if you would.

As far as the tense change right at the end, I think I'd be thrown a bit. I could ALMOST handle a POV shift instead, but I have yet to read a story that shifts from 1st to 3rd that I liked. Gosh. I don't know. Maybe I should just wait to read it first?

Make absolutely sure, right from the outset, that you can hear your story's voice. I've said this elsewhere, but I believe that the biggest reason for busted stories is because the writer didn't, or couldn't, hear the voice of their story.

So be certain that you're comfortable with the way that you're choosing to tell this story. If so, if you feel confident about it, then great. If not, then don't jump in: you'll only cheap the story if you do and end up wasting your time whilst doing it.

But I know you can do it. You've done it before and you'll do it again. Best way to know if it's going right is if you're having fun writing it. The process of writing should be giddy and mischievous - hey, I'm making stuff up out of whole-cloth here; ain't this a gas?! If it doesn't feel that way, if you're simply plowing ahead and it feels like a job that needs doing then that's when you know you've gone awry somewhere and have to rethink what it is you're presently trying to write.

So, anyway, get back to work soldier! I want you to run 20 kilometers, puke up your guts and then field-strip a tank!! And make sure you have fun while yer doin' it -that's an order!!! Over and out.
 

An entire story in 1st person present does not bother me, much, in theory--I consider it stream of consciousness--but I generally dislike the experience of reading it.

I'd vote for a return to 3rd person, and second Beth's comments.
 

It can work though. I think if you build the story to a climax in the past tense, and then switch to the present tense right afterwards -- like when he is left for dead -- the transition would be fine. Basically, he was reviewing his past up to this point, and now he is facing the consequences of his actions.

If you are more comfortable writing in the 3rd person, and would rather stay out of the character's mind, I think you can still make it work that way as well. It's a great story line -- you just need to find the right way to tell it.
 

Here are the revised revised revised first thirteen, back in 3rd POV:

quote:

---

The thing on the stalagmite looked vaguely like frosting flowers squirted from a pastry tube. Though frosting didn’t emanate a sickly greenish glow, nor smell like . . .
“Shit,” Merk said.
“Valuable, alien shit,” said Davchek.
“If I’d known that’s what starbursts were made of, I never would’ve tried to steal that shipment up top.”
“But then we would’ve been deprived of your presence.” Davchek’s tone was even and mild, but Merk wanted to punch him already. He hated being made fun of. This was only the first day of his life sentence, Jann’s too, in the hideous bowels of the planet named after its most valuable commodity. But as soon as Merk figured out a bit of the ropes around here he’d take Davchek down a peg.

---

Hopefully this works better!

[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited September 14, 2005).]
 

I read somewhere that "vaguely" can water down a simile, but feel free to disregard that vague recollection.

This was definitely the best version thus far.
 

// I don’t think hiding the identity of the “thing” adds complexity or mystery to the story, but I’m guessing, because I haven’t read any further than this. My strongest clue is that you very quickly, in these first lines identify it explicitly as “alien shit”, which is a very strong and memorable image. I am also intrigued by the stalagmite, and the eerie glow. Does it glow in the dark? without light? What sort of creature leaves this defecation behind? These are all excellent questions to raise in my mind, as they encourage me to read further to discover their answers. I would replace “thing” and “looked vaguely like” with verbiage which explicitly describes it. I also think “squirted from a pastry tube” is an excellent descriptive, though a tighter descriptive might be “a squirted pastry tube flower pulsing intermittently with a sickly greenish glow.”

// “frosting” is used twice, but in the original text only serves as the opposite of what it is, not a direct description of what it actually is.

// Perhaps, “The stalagmite was covered with squirted pastry-tube flowers pulsing with an intermittent sickly-green glow. The smell was unmistakably...”

“Shit,” Merk said.
“Valuable, alien shit,” said Davchek.

// I love these two lines. They introduce the two main characters. I assume they are main because they are identified in the first paragraphs. I might be disenchanted if at least one of them is not. There is strong characterization, introduction of the commodity, and the SFF element. That they do so briefly (tightly) is a bonus. I also like the names. They are 1-2 syllables, and easy to recognize and pronounce, while uniquely not contemporary.

“If I’d known that’s what starbursts were made of, I never would’ve tried to steal that shipment up top.”

// I’m not convinced I would buy this statement. I assume his motivation for “stealing” it was because it is valuable. I somehow doubt the revelation of what it is would have changed his original motivation, especially given he could not smell or have to handle it - or he would have noticed it before now. Had he known it then, he would have shrugged it off as safely contained and still valuable. I do appreciate that this is where you introduce the term “Starburst” but it should not be difficult to reintroduce it elsewhere, should you desire.

// The name “starbursts” seems particularly appropriate, given its defecation results in something which resembles a pastry flower. “burst” makes me think it is somehow violently, or at least with great energy expelled, while “star” becomes more interesting given the result has a “greenish glow”. I have this image of some luminary being drifting through the caverns leaving behind its calling card. “luminary” on account of “star” and “glow”, “drifting” because of “star” which has an orbit.

“But then we would’ve been deprived of your presence.” Davchek’s tone was even and mild, but Merk wanted to punch him already. He hated being made fun of. This was only the first day of his life sentence, Jann’s too, in the hideous bowels of the planet named after its most valuable commodity. But as soon as Merk figured out a bit of the ropes around here he’d take Davchek down a peg.

// cut “He hated being made fun of” as it’s already been very well shown by the prior sentence. These six words could be used to further clinch your opening hook with additional information.

// Too many characters, I think. You need Merk and Davchek, protagonist and foil. Jann is not introduced, and so is not really necessary here. Keep the focus tight. I think of the starburst, and its alien source, as characters, as well.

// cut “in the hideous bowels of the planet named after its most valuable commodity.” It’s stark repetition, as you’ve already told me “stalagmite”, which invokes caverns, which implies some planetary body; and, I already know its valuable from the prior introductory dialog.

// The one question that does not seem to have been raised is, What is the challenge? The setting is an underground prison. The primary characters are Merk and Davchek. The intriguing SFF element is the alien starburst, which implies much more than it explicitly states (that’s a good thing, because it engages my interest and curiousity). And, I know this is a prison confinement resulting from an unsuccessful theft. But, what is the challenge which Merk and/or Davchek will be facing and come to some denouement with? I assume it is Merk, given that Davchek sounds to me the foil against which Mark tests himself.

 

I DON'T like the way you introduced Jann because I thought (for a second, and only because I hadn't remembered from the previous 13 that Jann is Merk's wife--I think) that Jann might be Davchek's first name. I had an 'evil multiple tags' moment.
 

My thought on the starbursts is that they aren't mere solid waste defecation, they are a type of marker recognized among the creatures that leave them. The size, solidity, and luminosity of the starburst would be an excellent indicator of the health and strength of the specimen that left it.

Or it could just be their diet of luminous fungus, doesn't matter to me at this point in the story.
 

The above is the first time I read it.
Had no problems with difference with Merk, Davchek and Jann. Had no idea who Jann is. However, that is for the rest of the story, isn't it?

I liked the 'green glowing lumps'. Iit was, as with the reader, the first time Merk had seen them.

The name Merk does have some fecal overtones:

Meconium n : thick dark green mucoid material that is the first feces of a newborn child.

It is named after the thick green juice of the opium poppy, perhaps Starbursts are drugs.

Also Merde. (French for yoghurt I seem to recall )

But more than that, Merk conjures up images of Mercenaries.

Jann on the other hand reminds me of Jannissary a loyal solider or underling.

Davchek is clearly a slavic name, and choosing that sort of name, and the 'salt-mines' setting, conjures up stereotypes which may or may not be subverted by the subsequent story. I hope they are, that would be cool and interesting.

Do svidaniya!
 

You really really hit it on the head. Merk is a nasty jerk who gets his come-uppance at the end, and is referred to as a piece of shit.

The starbursts are used to make narcotics and prescription drugs.

Oh, and Survivor, you are right about the size, color and intensity having significance. The green ones are after the aliens eat a rodent-type creature. But after they eat a human they are bright white and larger. They are also more valuable and higher quality.

Jann is Merk's wife, very meek and abused by Merk.

I'm not sure what stereotypes you mean with the slavic overtones, though I did choose the name to have slavic roots. Davchek is the leader of the motley crew of prisoners. He keeps them alive and rules fairly, but he is also incredibly skilled in martial arts and well able to defend himself from scumbags like Merk.

Thanks for your comments, all. I have submitted this story to OSC, so we'll see what happens.

 

I guess that it's an interesting commentary on the cycle of life and all that crap, how Merk, despite being such a complete failure of protoplasm otherwise, will in the end give something back
 

Some of the elements of the slavic stereotype as portrayed in american popular culture and that might apply to this scenario would include:

1: an involvement in labour unrest (ie labour unions or worker's federations)
2: moodiness, swinging from furious almost manic activity through to lethargy and despair
3: hard drinking
4: physically strong but intellectually weak (ie easily duped)
5: tendency toward thievery and/or organised crime
6: tendency toward anti-semitism

Please note, this is a stereotype as portrayed primarily in hollywood. Not my personal views.

Subverting it could be fun and interesting.

Good luck!
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[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited September 19, 2005).]