"I don't really think about meaning of life stuff anymore"

And for some reason it stuck. I couldnt' shake what she said out of my head. So I sat down and started typing.

What came out surprised me, because I had no idea what was going to happen the entire time I was writing until it was on the page.

The end result was something that I felt was unique and wanted to continue as a serial. (Hince the #1)

I've structured it almost like a one hour television show. Chapter 1 is the teaser and Chapters 2-4 are Acts 1, 2, and 3.

This first one is set up like a pilot also, in the way it deals with characters and info about the universe. I've started working on "Episode 2" already and I'm hoping to get some more editing done on "Episode 1".

Episode 1 is called "The Curly Variable" and if read alone, can stand on its own, but enough was left for me to continue it as a series.

It is rated "R" (Not the 13 lines) for language and 1 sex scene (not too terribly graphic) that is proving integral to the series.

Also, I found out AFTER I started writing about a similarly named character in a story by Ishmael Reed. There is no connection, and I do not want to change my character's name unless anyone thinks it will present a problem.

Sorry for the LONG intro, here's the first 13 lines from The Chronically Surreal Adventures of Loop Garoo Episode 1: The Curly Variable (7500 Words) --

_____________________________________________

Most people spend a lot of time contemplating the meaning of life.

Not me.

That doesn’t mean I’m not “intellectual” or that I don’t think about things. No, not at all. It just means that I have a better grasp on the universe than most people. I’m not trying to sound conceited, it’s just that everyone else is so ignorant.

You know, that sounded worse than I meant it.

Let me explain, it’s a way of looking at things. I’ve had experiences that give me a “unique” view of the world. Most people want to know what “the answer” is. And to these people, the answer is what I refer to as “The Curly Variable”. I call it “The Curly Variable” because of what most people think the answer should be. You see, the Curly Variable is equal to n where n is equal to “that one thing”. You know, “that one thing” that makes your life worth living, “that one thing” that unifies everything, “that one thing” that helps it all make sense, the one and only secret to life that when you hear it, it all just clicks. If you’ve ever seen City Slickers you’d know exactly what I was talking about.

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This reads to me like what I write when an idea strikes but it doesn't have form so I just start typing until it does begin to take form. It read slike a brainstorming session.

It sounds to me like you're trying to put the moral of the story up front. It's great that your stoy has a moral, a philosophy, or theme, or whaever you want to call it, but reveal it slowly, over time, and begin with something that compells the reader to keep reading, something personal that they can relate to, like conflict or pain.

On the positive side, you have a friendly writing style and voice that made this very easy to read.
 

1. It's almost supposed to saound like brainstorming, the style ends up being a bit stream of conscious because of the first person perspective. So the bit at the beginning is what's going on in the main characters head while something is happening to him. It's kind of...character insight, it shows how he thinks and kind of what his bias is on certain issues that are to come.

2. It's not the moral. It's kind of a run on theme/joke that comes up every once in awhile.

Even though I did it on purpose, if it's not a good hook then I deffinitely need to work it out in my head.

Thanks!
-Andy

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But in the mean time I'll reread and reflect and see if it is the best way that I wanted it to happen.

It has a "So why am I thinking about all this? Because..." then the action, thing going for it.

But the action doesn't happen until page 2.

But I'll only make notes, I' wait to see what I hear from others before I do anything drastic :-)

Thanks again,
Andy
 

World that operates on our rules that happens to also have sorcerers, vampires,giants, and other creatures like that.

I know a lot of fiction does that, but I'm trying to explore it from a different angle...
I hope :-)

After the fact (because it wasn't on purpose) , my influences seem to be Buffy/Coupling(british)/Dead Like Me/with maybe a hint of pratchett.....
That's just off the top of my head after rereading it....whoever reads it may come up with different ones.
-Andy

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Thanks :-)
 

Just my opinion.
 

If it's a flaw in the structure that makes people bored at the begenning, then I end up restructuring everything, all 7500 words.

Nothing really happens for the first page and a half as is in Word, but the monologue at the beginning i find important and...well...It doesn't really work anywhere else.

I might be biased though. I might not be able to see better options because I'm too close to it.

I'll ask the people around me who've read it, give them the specific complaint and see what they say.

But I definitely don't want someone to read the first page, say "boring" and put it down.

One more question though, how important is it that the hook be one page long?
Because as I stated earlier (and maybe this was a bad idea) it's structured basically like an hour television show. Teaser and three acts. On TV, the teaser is the hook, and that's sort of how it works here. The teaser is just under 3 pages and I treated it as a whole as the hook.

Is that a bad way of doing it?
-me

ps...thanks for the comments

[This message has been edited by Speaker (edited June 22, 2004).]
 

I don't know what this means for your story, but that's the harsh truth of the publishing world. Now, if you only want this story for yourself and you're happy with it, then it doesn't matter at all.
 

The first thirteen lines can be less than stellar and still pass muster.

But frankly, this does look like slushpile material. Yes, yes, you're doing it on purpose and all that, but the editor has no way of knowing that. The kicker is that "The Curly Variable" turns out to be a reference to City Slickers.

I would read more anyway, but your advisory that the language is R rated and you'll have a sex scene that you consider integral to the series is a severe barrier. Yeah, sure, I've read a fair amount of R rated language (and I've heard far more). And I know that sometimes really quite graphic material is essential to telling certain stories. Usually I just don't bother telling that story.

I would guess that the sex scene isn't really all that essential (by the way, the error where the author thinks that a crucial sex scene isn't important to the story is just as irritating--but it is rarer).
 

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Note: I don't think the monologue is necesarrily bad. Anything can work if you do it right. Every story requires its own structure/style/whatever. Just trying to throw you an idea or two.
 

For instance(from your para.#5): Let me explain, it's a way of looking at things. Just the other day I was talking to Bob Ranchburger, you know Bob. Bob, I said...

I don't want to put words on your paper, but I couldn't think of another way to describe it. Then you could have some back and forth with "Bob" to describe "The Curly Variable". That way it isn't just a bunch of information, and you could show Bob's emotion/reaction to the whole thing. Would something like that work? Of course I haven't seen anything past what you've got here, so maybe it doesn't. Eh, (*shrug*).
 

Not being defensive, just explaining they whys. I'm going to seriously think this over and see if I can't figure out how to make it move from the beginning.

I think the problem is is that when I write, I see it all play out in my head like a TV show......
I hear a voice over and see accompanying images and music that go along with it that really doesn't work in prose.
Like when he's talking about people, having footage of people milling about on a busy street at double speed (cliched, but it's just off the top of my head...)
This happens a lot in the show "dead like me", it usually starts with a voice over and shots of things that aren't the main characters or the main plot.

The thing here is he rambles on about this curly variable, theorizes on it to the point where you get a real idea of how scatter brained he is. He also explains that he disagrees with Curly in there being 1 thing, that life is made up of multiple experiences that define your life and if you only have one then what kind of life is that.
Then he says (paraphrased) "You might be wondering why i'm thinking about all this. Well my life just flashed before my eyes and i realized my curly variable is a big fat zero)
That's when the reveal is made that he's in the middle of a life or death struggle with a half giant.

I understand the people who mentioned City Slickers either dating it...or missing the refference.....but that's the reason why I didn't go into a long explanation about the specific scene in it. It basically just serves as the name of the variable at the beginning.

Yes, I probably could cut out that entire bit and start straight with the action but it ruins the rythm in my opinion. The story also ends on a sentence that refers back to this at the beginning.

Also, a publisher and a reader are often two different audiences. Robert Jordan's series "Wheel of Time" has made TONS of money...but nothing EVER happens in the first thirteen lines...his prologues are the most boring part and if you do 13 lines from chapter 1 it's always "The wheel of time turns and ages come and pass"....etc . . . no action

A lot of the stuff I watch or read is that way also. A book like the DaVinci Code has action right away. A man on the run from someone evil, but it's not what I'm doing.

I would love to say "i decided that blah" but I didn't decide, it came out that way in a certain rythm and when i finished and revised I liked how it was nonchalantly talking about (supposedly) meaningless drivel and then all of a sudden it's revealed that he's thinking this, while in the middle of a fight for his life.

But I'm no professional, i'm just some guy who enjoys writing and who enjoys discussion and imagination. If it doesn't work the way it is, then it doesn't work.

I certainly don't want to risk it being ignored just on the first 13 that are posted here.

But all writing is a work in progress is it not?

Thanks again for the advice. I'm going to mull over who I want to write this for. If it's for me, it stays, if it's for the publisher it goes, if it's for someone else....
I'm in trouble.

ps....on the R rated bit..... I understand about the "not writing" that story. And i've written before using that philosophy, to have a wider audience. This time I just decided to write it naturally, even if it limits the audience. And it came much easier, i felt more free in creating it, because to ignore sex and swearing is to ignore some very real character traits that exist in most people.

TruHero-
Just read your post...and your moniker is accurate! you are a true hero! I don't know if it'll work or not, but I'll try. I do just that a LOT in the story past this point, I just didn't at this point because ...I don't know. I'll try it and see how it makes it work. thanks :-)

But more important thatn number one, FAR more important, is that I think I see a deeper flaw in your logic. It goest to discussions we've had around here from time to time, although not explicitly in a while....movies and books are two different mediums. (Please insert TV and short stories where appropraite.)

Movies/TV have advantages. They can show you the action. They can draw vivid pictures and give it to you in real time. Books cannot do this. But books have a different advantage over TV and movies....that it can show true character emotions and thoughts, give us a real picture of what is going on inside a person to motivate him;her. It can also tell a much longer and deeper story.

That's not to say that a movie and a book don't have story elements in common. They both require a hook, and I've seen movies that break the "show don't tell" rule as well. (I always find it amusing when they do. )

Anyway, I don't know any other reason to suppose you've done badly with this except that you've now mentioned more than one time that you're modeling this after a TV show, but it's a concern that popped up so I thought I'd mention it.

i suggest you read "Characters and Viewpoint" by OSC if you have not already.
 

Maybe you're right, maybe it just can not work that way.

But I want to make it work that way :-)

You know, do it differently than the usual.

Went to look for characters and viewpoints and came across this:

http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/lesson19.shtml

Might this apply here?

Going to go look for characters and viewpoints now.

I'm not suggesting that you get things moving. I am suggesting that you find some way to get us emotionaly connected. Throw a charcter in there, have him in a meanginful predicament. Peter was in a meaningful predicament, thinking about the things going on in his life that we understood and (sort of) empathized with.

you've got an unnamed guy rambling about philosophy with no context. That is not action either, I'm afraid.
 

how about this:

Marla and I were in the kitchen making dinner one night. Well, I was making dinner, she was on the phone talking to her father. I wasn't paying too much attention because their topics were usually the same, but then I heard her say:

"I don't really think about 'meaning of life stuff' anymore"

And for some reason it stuck. A week later I couldnt' shake what she said out of my head. So I pulled out my laptop, sat down and started typing.

What came out surprised me. I had never really been one to write theses on philosophy or things like that, but the paper that came out of my brainstorming actually seemed to make some sort of sense.

Let me summarize. It revolves around a way of looking at things, a different paradigm if you will. (I’ve had experiences that give me a “unique” view of the world) I wrote in length about how most people want to know what “the answer” is. And to these people, the answer is what I refered to as “The Curly Variable”. I called it “The Curly Variable” because of what most people think the answer should be. You see, the Curly Variable is equal to n where n is equal to “that one thing”. You know, “that one thing” that makes your life worth living, “that one thing” that unifies everything, “that one thing” that helps it all make sense, the one and only secret to life that when you hear it, it all just clicks. (if you’ve ever seen City Slickers you’d know exactly what I was talking about)

(longer than 13 lines, i know, but it's a brainstorming thing real quick...not nearly final)

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That last paragraph is tough to understand, though. Perhaps because you drop into it too quickly and don't give us a breather. And it seems utterly disconnected from what was happening before.

Maybe if you split it half way and give us something tangible to think about it wouldn't be so bad.

A specific suggestion: You see, the Curly Variable is equal to n where n is equal to “that one thing”. This sentence is the most problematic. Even to somebody like me who is used to thinking mathematically, it isn't easy to follow. It can be substantialy simplified without affecting the meaning to: You see, the Curly Variable is equal to “that one thing”. I think that would be better.

 

"the paper[change this to idea--the paper itself didn't make any sense whatsoever] that came out of my brainstorming actually seemed to make some sort of sense."

At this point, you are essentially promising to say something that makes sense. Therefore, if you do not, the reader will not continue reading. Nor will most editors.

We've all encountered the story written "by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." We've read the kind where the author is doing it on purpose to portray the first person narrator a certain way and we've read the ones where (so far as we can tell) it is the author rather than the character that is an idiot.

And I can tell that you're trying to write the first kind. But one thing that reading a lot of those stories teaches, they are pretty much the same. You can only tell the difference by knowing the author.

The only way it works is when you have the idiot not be an idiot...that is, when the story signifies something. And it should be clear very early that while the "idiot" isn't what we would call clever, there is wisdom in the story.
 

This is why the first one works better, as far as the whole story goes. The part in the kitchen has nothing to do with the action that happens on page 2, I was just throwing it in there to "break it up" as some people suggested.
The action that comes on page 2 is sort of a reveal, it works (in my opinion) because you've been reading this train of thought and all of a sudden your thrown into a life or death situation.
Also, the reason I made it N is because there's more...just a bit more that uses N and explains it just a bit better before dropping you into the action.

Survivor:
it doesn't make sense because it's only a part of the explanation. Well, I hope that's only why.
This is another reason why I like the first one better. The second does break up with action and has something happen, but I personally like it better as an internal rant leading up to the punchline that begins the action than i do having it be something he feels impressed with.
The people I have had read the entire story, thought it worked great for the story, and tell me not to mess with it......
the problem is...as many have pointed out....if you read the first page and drop it, then you'll go "What the heck is this crap?"
I knew the first page by itself was confusing, but sometimes confusion is enough to grab interest, to get someone to read on at least until it's cleared up.
But I'm not an editor.

Sorry if I'm sounding defensive, I'm not trying to. If someone read the whole thing (which I don't expect since it's rated "R") and said the beginning was crap, I'd take it, but by itself, it's way out of context.

I DO completely agree with what's been said about it not being interesting enough on the first page for just anyone, though.

But I also think if someone read it all the way through, both versions, they would pick the first intro, because it is what goes with the flow of the story, which isn't exactly linear, it's in a line, just not a very straight one and the overly long rant at the beginning is brought full circle by the last line of dialogue.

Anyway, I'm going to shut up before I stick my foot in my mouth. I really do appreciate all the comments and it gives me an idea of what to expect if I do send it out.

Now I just have to decide how I want to use the many opposing opinions I've gotten :-)
-me
 

Brilliantly said! I agree!

The problem is, figuring out whether the advice is actually pointing out a flaw that needs to be dealt with, or if it's just a difference of opinnion.

My story feels right to me, but after watching the WB Superstar USA, those people felt like they were singing great....

So there's the dilemna. . . am I to stubborn and unwilling to let go, or am I on the right track and have the perefect opening for what the story is as a whole?

decissions decissions :-)
 

If your opening has nothing to do with the story, then cut it. It is one of the most basic and easily avoided common errors in fiction writing to start with an opening that is designed only to get the reader to the next page and has nothing to do with the rest of the story.

But I will also say that if you can't write a promising opening that actually has something to do with the rest of your story, then you probably don't have a very good overall story. If the story is any good, then there are several interesting places to enter it. Not being able to find any of them is a bad sign.
 

You're right, there are several places. But this one feels the most right to me when taking into account character, perception, and the overall arc that happens in the course of hte story.

You may hate it, then again maybe not. Let me know either way :-)

wetwilly - agreed
Also let me know if you still think I'm wrong...if you think that still once you have the context...cool :-)

[This message has been edited by Speaker (edited June 24, 2004).]
 

Do you want the readers to see the story you have envisioned? If you're only ever writing for you, then it doesn't matter how you apply the words to the page. Since you posted for feedback, I'm going to assume that was not the answer, however.

If you want readers to see your story, then they need to experience it in a way that they can understand and relate to. Don't get me wrong, the so-called "rules of writing" can be broken, but if you do, you must accept the consequences of your action. The consequence of a boring beginning is severe: No one will read your story.

Perhaps it "feels right" to you to begin with philosophizing, but it does not "feel right" to many readers to begin that way. Speaker, I know you've mentioned people at home who say they like it, but are you sure they have been honest with you? Sometimes, especially if you know and like someone (and you see quite likeable) you don't want to hurt their feelings. Especially in this case, they may not even be lying. They may have just determined to look for the good (and they probably got to read further than we did) and so they just ignored the fact that they did not really get into the story for a little while. (You say it starts pretty soon after this, that's not hard to believe.)

But think about it...every single stranger on this board has given you the same impression: Your introduction did not work. You talk about audience as a way to dismiss these comments. In fact, when you kindly gave me feedback you told me to go ahead and not worry about what you had said because you were not in my audience. But realise that the tastes on this board run the gamet. I've debated with many of these fine aliases over books and other people's introductions. I have hardly ever seen such a sweeping agreement before. It should tell you something.

There are two times to take critique seriously:
1. When several people mentio the same thing.
2. When it feels right to you.

I almost hesitate to mention the second part, however, because it only works if you are open to the feedback and if you pay attention to the first part.

There is a tiny truth that some people simply won't be in your audience for a story. I've run into them before. My mom doesn't like scifi and only tolerates fantasy. But she can tell me if a character is sympathetic and if an ending came as a surprise to her.

I like my stories to appeal to a wide audience. I do try to balance that with the wise tenant "you can't please everyone" but on the other hand if you want to get published, you have to please someone.

I defend and question to get reactions and answers to help me figure out the nature of the criticism. If I defend my choices and then people still go..."No..still doesn't work" then they did understand.

The people at home could be just being nice,as you say, but I'm not simply asking what they think. One guy I know, Brian, his exact words were "F***ing awesome".
Brian is blunt. I've given him stuff he's called "S**t" before. He writes, he's done the classes, he reads a lot. I went back to him with the comments on this board about the intro and he flat out told me not to touch it. It wasn't, "I like it ..but try something else" it was, "no don't mess with it"
Out of everything I've written, that's the first time he's been that excited when liking something.
My wife I could see being nice, but she when I asked her, her favorite part was the opening, she liked it better than the story. She also is a prolific reader. Not a writer though.
When I talk about audience, I'm not meaning to dismiss the comments, more to question them, or my audience.
This experience is awesome, I now know that a LOT of people won't respond to my intro, which makes me question either my format, or medium. Would it work better as a script? Or does it just need to be overhauled as a short story.

Also, I've said before, I don't like shows like friends. But a LOT of people do. Check out a show called "Wonderfalls". I absolutely LOVED that show. Found it hilarious and wonderfully written, Fox cancelled it after 4 episodes. Poor ratings and the execs didn't "get it"
Funny thing is, the show starts off with a voice over, telling a story of something that has nothing to do with the over all story of that episode. It might be used later on but as of episode 4, it hadn't been. Also it's structure was interesting, it was linear, but even moreso than a lot of shows. It was basically dominos. Things happened and everythign just went straight, hardly any turns, until the conclusion. If you check the internet you'll find it had a TON of fans, but compared to friends...drop in the bucket.

That's another reason why i brought audience up that way.

I guess I'm searching for...is it BAD or does it just risk boring people. The Wheel of Time bored me for 6 chapters before it picked up, but there wasn't any reason for the first 6 chapters to be exciting.

If it's just a boredom risk....i'll work with it, if it's just plain bad, i'll cut it.

BTW, I'm sorry if I came across as dismissing, believe me I take every comment to heart, just exploring every possible angle ya know :-)

-andy
 

You've got the seed of an interesting story in there, but all this "I gotta be edgy and experimental" crap is ruining it.

That includes the opening.

As Brian would say if he were a bit more intelligent "Shit smeared on a canvas is edgy and experimental every time, that doesn't make it anything other than shit on a canvas." As he is, I think he's probably at least half the reason that you've ruined what could easily be a pretty interesting and fairly original story.

I can see why your wife liked the opening more than the story. As it stands, the story is not...appropriate for gentle readers. The opening is at least innocuous.

Right now, the story is bad and it is boring. It fully justified my initial decision not to bother...but there is an interesting story in there, if you can avoid killing it.

I'll reiterate this, if Brian thought the story was perfect, then you need to stop taking his advice. When someone tells you not to touch your own writing, it means that you have a reason to touch it and probably should listen to that reason.
 

I get what you're saying but i'm not thinking "i gotta be edgey and experimental"
it just hit the page like that and I liked it.

Now, that doens't mean it's not ruining the story, it certainly does for you. Like I said, I'm going to do another revision and see what happens with it. Keeping in mind what everyone has said.

2 quick points though.
1. My wife isn't a gentle reader. You would find that she's quite the opposite if you browsed her book collection. But she is a Chemist and enjoys thinking of things in forms of equations sometimes.

2. I overgeneralized Brians comments. He didn't say not to touch the work, he said he really liked the intro and structure and to keep those two things.