Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Need a distraction...help with titles?

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Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I need a distraction from my novel for a bit, I'm sort of up to my neck in it. I know, I'm not done yet so it's not necessarily the time to start thinking about a title, but I can't help it. The working title is "Signs" which is the same as the short story it was based on. But for a novel, I don't like it. It's been used a hundred times, including recently for a very bad movie.

But the main character does see signs of the future, so it is apt. Using Eric's 10 suggestions on the title thread, http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001093.html I've come up with a few other ideas:

1. The Seer
2. Place : not really relavent
3. The Book of Prophecy
4. Seer's Demise
5. When Futures End
6. The Seer's Book
7. Seen and Unseen
8. Prophecy in Control
9. Prophecy's Failure
10. So it Must Be

Any takers?

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited April 30, 2004).]

Posted by Gen (Member # 1868) on :

The three that popped out at me were "When Futures End," "Seen and Unseen," and "So It Must Be." I feel like I've seen "The Book of Prophecy" somewhere. The "Seer" and "Prophecy" titles felt a bit general, as well, not really something *new* in the area.

What sort of book? What kind of mood are you going for?

edit: eck. mood, not mod.

[This message has been edited by Gen (edited April 30, 2004).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

It's actually a murder mystery in which the amateur sleuth can see signs of the future (within certain rules that I won't go into here). Actually, the victim had the same power, and she saw her own death coming before it happened. It's a little dark because of that, but dark would not be the primary descriptor. It's actually going to come to a happy conclusion, with, among other things, a successful romantic element. Mystical might be a good descriptor...strange and parnormal

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited April 30, 2004).]

Posted by GZ (Member # 1374) on :

I like When Futures End and So It Must Be best for off the shelf appeal.

Is the short story basis the one with the woman in the house with her book, and the disfigured, but nefarious, brother I read some time back? Sounds like it would be, with some significant changes in converting to a novel. I think either of those titles would work, but I don't know if any really sing to the tone I remember from that story.

Not that I have much help to offer there. I suck a titles.

[This message has been edited by GZ (edited April 30, 2004).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I forgot that a couple of people around here were kind enough to read that short for me...but actually, this isn't a novel version of the short story. It's based on the short in another way. It's set two years later, Marianne has left her cheating husband and moved cross country to get away, has lost some weight and made some strives toward improving her life, and she gets involved in the murder of a woman she meets who has the same power as she does.

Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :

From your list, I like: When Futures End the best.

I am just throwing this out there, so if it is stupid just disregard it. How about something that ties the two women, or their power together. I am not saying to use these as is, but just fuel for the fire.

"Prophecy's Twin" or some other word to tie them together, Kindred, Sisters, Souls etc...

I also thought of "Line of Sight" to do with lineage of their gift, or something they shared. Which brought me to parallel.
"Prophecy's Parallel" or "Seer's Parallel". Then I thought of intersection or cross like their lives have crossed or intersected, or they have a connection through their power.
Ok this is probably not what you wanted, but that is how I figure out titles, by chaining words or thoughts from my stories. Sometimes they have double meanings, which I think is kinda cool. Anyway I hope I didn't add to your confusion, or muddle your choices, but you asked for suggestions

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

I think "When Futures End" is my favorite too. But it somehow just doesn't get me where I want to be with the title. It lacks the sort of rhythm I like in a title. Maybe "Future's End," or something. I liked TruHero's suggestion of stringing words together. I have my own title to come up with, I think I'll try that myself.

Posted by yanos (Member # 1831) on :

I liked Seer's Demise best, although it may nto truly fit your description of the story. When Future's End is good also.

Posted by kagome (Member # 2001) on :

I'd go with "When Future's End", too

Posted by JBShearer (Member # 9434) on :

Or "Place not Relavent"

(you see, I did a little creative editing. It's fun.)

Posted by Eric Sherman (Member # 2007) on :

"When Futures End" is the one I liek the best.

Posted by jpwriter (Member # 1987) on :

When Futures End. I do think dakota is right. It is just the best on the list. I am also with dakota in thinking Futures End is better. If it fits the story, it might be the one.
Jerry

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

I like When Futures End best of the proposed titles, although I think it might be wrong for your novel. That title seems more appropriate to a novel about the far future than a contemporary fantasy/mystery.

Are you looking for suggestions, or just comments on the list?

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

Suggestions would be good. And I think I agree with all of you. When Futures End, or the even less appropriate Futures End, would make me pick the book up fastest. Unfortunatley, they are misleading and inappropriate for the novel. They make me think of a story about the end of the world, not a story that's a murder mystery involving women who can see the future.

In fact, I think I'm going to try this again with a different list:

1. The Woman Who Knew She Would Die
1a. The Woman Who Felt Her Own Death
2. Place : Still not relevant
3. Death Signs
3a. Sign of Death
4. Surrounded by Death Signs
5. When Signs Point to Death
5a. When Death Knocks
6. The Death Signs
7. Signs and Portents
8. Feelings of Death
9. Death's Knock
10. Death Will Come

Obviously, I'm coming from a different angle with this list, but I think most of these are truer to the story. Any that look decent? Or even variations on the above?

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

Having death in the title tends to add a little tension.

I kind of like The Woman Who Knew She Would Die. Or perhaps a variation on 1a: The Woman Who Saw Her Own Death. I think "saw" works better than "felt." I think The Woman Who Saw Her Own Death is a very intriguing title.

A few more ideas:

Forseen
A Death Foreseen
A Murder Foreseen
A Foreseen Death
A Death Foretold
A Murder Foretold
Premonition of Death
Premonition of Murder
Forseen Circumstances
Visions Ill Foreseen (Quote from Milton's Paradise Lost; a fuller quote is "O Visions ill foreseen! Better had I Lived ignorant of future...")
The Rude Bird of Hate (Quote from Milton's Sonnet to the Nightengale; fuller quote is "...ere the rude bird of hate Foretell my hopeless doom...")

Posted by Silver6 (Member # 1415) on :

I liked Signs of Death, but it's perhaps a tad too generic.

Posted by rjzeller (Member # 1906) on :

Okay, first of all, I happened to love the movie "Signs".

Very bad...sigh. Okay, so I'm easily entertained....

Personally, I liked the original list: When Futures End. Or, more preferrably, just "Future's End".

But given the premise of your story, I'd like to offer a few suggestions (probably all crap but what the hey...):

1. Fighting Destiny
2. Glimpse of Tomorrow
3. A Break in Time
4. Memories of Tomorrow
5. A Future's History
6. FlashForward
7. Timeline

Okay...I hereby apologize for ever suggesting number six. But that's why it's somebody else's story and not mine! As for your original suggestions, I still like "When Futures End" the best.

My 2 pennies.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

Actually, I have a new working title that may end up working for me:

"Certain Death"

Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :

I am having a similar problem, cleck this out:

1. Person. Evander (?) - That’s no good. Title? Well, there’s “Night Watcher” I suppose ...
2. Place. Second Earth, Civilization ... The Complex? -No that sucks ...
3. (?) Um ... no, how about–Blade of Truth (sorry but I can’t get past how that sounds melodramatic ...)
4. The Fall of Second Earth ... sounds like an old, bad, OSC book ... The Coming of Order ... I don't know that i care for that either ...

5. 7893 - actually that may not be so bad, in its own very weird way

6. The Childrens' Place ... doesn't exactly coincide with the writing we have done ... illfitting, if you will ... how about The Fugitives' Earth

7. Dawn and Dusk ... maybe not, War and Peace ... well, Tolstoy's got me beat to that one ... how about, "Dark and darker" (seems melodramatic AGAIN!!!!)

8. Unfamiliar Dawn

9. Evander's Truth, or Childrens' Hope (these aren't so good)

10. The ... (verb) (beyondish-type-word) (article) (noun)

um, no ideas here.

Anyway, osrry to change the flow of discussion away from your topic Christine. It's just that I had the same problem/solution and wanted to share.

As far as your own titles go, I have a leaning toward The Seer even though its a bit plane, HOWEVER, why don't you change When to Where and create, "Where Futures End" which I think is stronger.

Well, that's my two-bits

Posted by UnheardOf (Member # 2022) on :

Alias--

It might help if you told us what this book is about. It's difficult to make suggestions based on what you've given us here. Perhaps you have more info about your work in another post?

Christine--

I like "Seen and Unseen." I'm not what you would call a fan of mystery, but I would not pick up a book titled "Certain Death." Too depressing for me. However, now that this thread's been refreshed, you may get other reactions.

Good luck (to all of us).

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

How about:

I Died Tomorrow
The Seer's End
The Reaper Knocks
Deathsign

I really can't say I'm too taken with your second list. To me the word 'death' (ironic, since one of my suggestions uses it) smacks of a cheesy murder mystery. And "The Woman Who..." reminds me of a B Horror film. Keep at it. Hope I helped.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

First of all, I was completely wrong with most of the titles I've presented so far. The word "see" or anything like it cannot be in the titel...for the simple reason that the people who predict the future do not "see" the future....they feel it. I explain in the book, and actually, I spent about a page explaining why they don't see anything, just so the reader is clear, because it's such a common poitn of confusion. I definitely don't wan to add to the confusion by putting "see" in the title.

It is a murder mystery. Plain and simple. I'd like to think it's not cheesy, but the point is, these horror and fantasy sounding titles just arne't it. They are the wrong genre altogether for the book. The trouble with opening up this thread again is that I screwed up so bad the first time I tried with tht titles, that any suggestions anyone gives will probably be wrong. I'm not using any of the aforementioned titles, and I might not have hit the nail on the head with "certain Death", but it's the best working title I've come up with so far in that it actually has a great deal to dow ith the plot.

"Certain Death" is depressing, but so is the book to a certain extent. I would like to leave room for hope, both in the title and in the book itself, so maybe I should take some of the steam off. I just haven't see the title yet. I think in this case that the title is out there somewhere. There already is a "right" title for the book and as soon as I see it I'll know. I haven't *known* anything yet, so I must not have seen it.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited May 18, 2004).]

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

Maybe you should try to feel the right title, rather than see it.

Seriously though, if you want someone to toss out title ideas to help you narrow down your ideal title parameters, I'd be happy to read the first chapter or so to get a sense of tone.

[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited May 18, 2004).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

That's very nice of you.

I think I'll go ahead and do that....finishing with a brief description of what else happens in the book (because the murder mystery doesn't even start until chapter 2...I wanted it to be established as a character story first, murder mystery a close second.)

Just keep in mind, as you read chapter 1 (which is very short, under 2000 words....all my chapters are short and punchy in this novel.) that i've only written to ch apter 5 at this point and it's all a rough draft. :-)

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

Well, that was a rough draft that clipped along nicely.

Here are my annotated title suggestion du jour. I'm giving you all the ones that my brain offered, even the bad ones, hoping that it will help you narrow your search down.

Expiration Date (okay, this is just goofy)
Dead Reckoning (Certain Death is better)
The Termination Point (Actually I like this one, because it references death, divorce, and journeys)
Death and the Matron (This is my favorite. I think the slight playfulness offsets the depression but at the same time says what the basic conflict is. I'm assuming, of course, that people are familiar with Death and the Maiden)
Nor How Hard You Try (Taken from your main character's mother's poem. I liked the line, and thought that it represented the futility that she feels, not only with the prophesies but with her own relationship with her daughter.)

Finally, I think that Certain Death works, though it might not have quite the "music" that I like in a title. This may be a stupid technique, but I'll share anyway. When you go see a movie and listen to the previews, there are basically only two guys that do the voice overs. One does all the dark movies and one does all the light movies. When I think I've got a title that I like, I imagine the appropriate voice over artist saying it - in this case, the dark one - if it makes me laugh, it's a dud.

[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited May 19, 2004).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I didn't think about using a line from the poem. For those who are having trouble understanding that, I'll just post the poem:

"No matter what you do, nor how hard you try, the signs will come. We don't always know when, we don't always know why, but futures can't be changed by you or I." --Marianne's GRANDmother, actually....I think it got confusing because Marianne's daughter called her great-grandmother and it required the reader to do some math.

Nor How Hard You Try....it's not singing to me, but it's tripping over my tongue like a warm possibility.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Ooh, I liked all of MR's suggestions. And I like her admittedly subjective selection criterion.

quote:

"If we're going to fight the world's greatest war, we're going to need the world's greatest warrior."
BRAD PITT

Yeah, OSC gave it about five thumbs up, but I still can't get over the laugh out loud (and fall down on the floor, slapping my head and so forth, still laughing before getting back to my feet to breathlessly recount what we had all just seen to everyone in the room) funny effect of that first promo.

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

Playing on the 'Certain Death' idea:

Death Ordained
The Knife of Atropos [a symbol from Greek mythology -- Atropos was one of the three Fates, and is associated with death, which happens when Atropos cuts your "life thread"]

I think both of those sound more intriguing.

[Edit: I've found a link that suggests that Atropos would cut the life thread with "shears", which doesn't sound quite as good as a knife, but never mind]

[This message has been edited by Jules (edited May 22, 2004).]

Posted by cvgurau (Member # 1345) on :

I like the Knife of Atropos. It appeals to me. But I don't think it'd work here, as it implies a greek edge to Christine's story. Like Atropos (or her knife) were directly involved.

Just my thoughts.

CVG

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

quote:
The word "see" or anything like it cannot be in the titel...for the simple reason that the people who predict the future do not "see" the future....they feel it.

In keeping with this, my daughter suggested The Touch of Fate.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I kinda like The Touch of Fate....intriguing....anyone else think they'd pick up that book?

Thanks for the thought, Jules, but even if Atropos used a knife, no one in my story does (except maybe for cooking.) and it's set in modern, very non greek times. It is a cool title, I would read a book by that title, just not mine.

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

Yeah. Touch of Fate rocks.

I was also going to toss Cassandra's Legacy into the mix, but figure its out for the same Greek theme reasons.

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

The Touch of Fate is good, as are the variations A Touch of Fate and Touch of Fate. Each has a slightly different feel to it, and I don't know which fits your novel better.

Touching Fate might also work.

[This message has been edited by EricJamesStone (edited May 24, 2004).]

Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :

I think Touching Fate is better, personally, because in general titles like Touch of Fate seem to connote a flare of melodrama ... or perhaps it's better put to say it is cliche reminiscent.

For whatever reason, I like Touching Fate better, but I would advise against using the word "fate" in your title.