Hatrack River Writers Workshop: My First 13

This is topic My First 13 in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

I'm nervous as I type this. . . . I'd like to post 13 lines from a short story (2606 words) and ask for a few readers. If you are interested, thanks, and let me know what format I should send it in. My current teacher feels like it is/could be part of some longer story - I had not intended it that way, so would be curious to hear your view if you read it. Thanks in advance! -Lee

"Onion Man"

Cleatis Murdock was peeling an onion in his lab when he heard voices rise in the outer office. More grower reps insisting on bringing their samples in person, he thought. His assistant would take care of them. Susan Browder had not been chosen for her office skills alone; her intimidating height, stout physique, and vocal tones could stifle the loudest complaint. He turned back to the onion. He sniffed appreciatively at the strong odor as a few tears leaked down his wrinkled cheeks.

The voices lowered, but Cleatis heard a snort as a male voice said his name. He smiled. He used his middle name on purpose; it gave him an edge - people made assumptions that didn’t include his having a doctorate. His boss respected him, having known enough twelve years back to hire the best onion grader he could find.

Posted by ccwbass (Member # 1850) on :

Well, I don't know where it's going, but I'm definitely curious. This is a nice little bit of writing. Congrats! I'm not just returning a courtesy, BTW. The mistakes that usually show up in this forum (and I have been guilty of them) - too much writerly-ness in the form of tortured sentence structure or an overabundance of adjectives or unfortunate simile - just aren't to be found here. We get an unusual scene - unusual in that our prospective protagonist is an onion sniffer - and, frankly, that's danged interesting.

Dude.

[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited March 06, 2004).]

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Why thank you! I'm blushing... and I know what you are saying - people who post here are generally honest in critique, both positive and negative, which is valuable. I appreciate what you said, for what you said.

Fer shure, like gag me with an ellipsis! Kolona has branded you Valley Guy - I think it's gonna stick

And actually, I should have been more specific in my initial post - if anyone would be willing to have me e-mail the whole story to them for critique, I'd appreciate it! (no pressure though)

Posted by ccwbass (Member # 1850) on :

You know, it's funny: I haven't walked on an actual beach, with sand and everything, in ten years (that's about 85 pounds ago, in Taco Bell units), and I'm only a twenty-minute drive away. But I have recently been to the mall. It was RAD! I totally bought a pretzel!

Unfortunately my ValSpeak is a tad out of date.

Feel free to e-mail your story. I've finally turned my stuff in to my group and I'm waiting on pins and needles and need something not my own to think about in the meantime.

[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited March 06, 2004).]

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Very nice, Punahougirl. I was hooked with the title.

Do send it.

What kind of teacher?

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Thank you both! Cameron - you don't need the beach - you live in a valley, right? So...

Kolona - I'm taking the Writing in Depth classes that EricJamesStone has mentioned (currently in WiD III, with IV starting Monday). So I would say Caleb Warnock is a creative writing teacher. Or a writing teacher. We have lessons, exercises, and writing group critiques of our current work, and teacher feedback every week. His site is www.writingindepth.com.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I have to concur with the above opinions. Solid POV, excellent use of the premise to create plausible but still interesting inconcruity, even some development of the characters in context.

And it even starts with an eccentric scientist in a laboratory, always a plus from my point of view. I'd love to see the rest.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Oh my gosh - I hope the rest of the story lives up to the first two paragraphs... thank you Richard (ok, maybe I should stick with Survivor, but I like your name-name), and thank you for being willing to read it. I'll send it. -Lee

Posted by yanos (Member # 1831) on :

Seems like a good solid start, and as I have a fetish for onions please email me the story. You can even call me Ian if it makes you feel any better or just Sir will do...

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Thank you Ian! BTW, I had a good friend from Sri Lanka, whose father was also a teacher - her name was Mareeni Amirithanayagam. No, not asking if you knew her, just looked at your location and it brought back fond memories! If you've a knighthood via SCA I'll gladly use "Sir" as well, but then you'll have to refer to me as "Lady" (never did become a dame, though I killed a king once)

Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :

I would also like to throw my offer into the ring. Although, I am definately not Pro-Onion, much to my Sister's dismay. (they have a large onion operation in Northern Utah). This is very different from the stuff I usually see posted here. So send it my way if you'd like, I'll give it a look-see. -BA-

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

A lady who killed a king? Please elaborate. But keep it in a writing context so it's pertinent to the thread.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Thanks TruHero - you are my...! I can understand your sister's feelings, but then she probably doesn't grow sweet onions (fall/winter storage onions, right?). Utah ranks 10th in the U.S. for onion production (crop volume). Have you ever had Maui onions? Very sweet and yummy.

Sharon(!) - You know how they say it helps if you can use personal experiences in your writing? I was once a part of a group that does medieval recreation. At one point I decided to learn to fight - even built part of my plate armor. I hosted an event back home which the King and Queen of our kingdom attended (flew in from California!). Anyway, there was fighting, and I got a chance to fight the king. I think he threw the first fight, and I begged for another chance. We started, and some noise came from my left, his right. I saw his eyes shift for a split second - so I hit him on the head! He said something like "Wow, good shot!" and fell to the ground. Someone even got a picture of it. My current story has nothing to do with this, but when I take a stab at fantasy I believe I will have some great personal experiences to use as I write. Maybe not worthy of the "Chicks in Chainmail" series, but who knows?

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

Master Caleb has taught you well, Punahougirl.

I'm interested enough to want to see the whole thing.

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Actually, Puna, you didn't kill a king. You crowned him.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Kolona - big chuckles from this side of the country!

Eric - thank you - yes, I think he has! The positive comments I'm getting are on prose. The big warning is that something got pointed out, and I now realize the story is not done, and still needs work (but that is why we ask for readers, yes?). I reversed something in it, and the point got, ah, well, don't want to prejudice you in anyway, so I'll just send it.

I really appreciate all the people who have volunteered to read what I have. It's amazing, going through this process - I did not realize the nerves involved in putting your work out there for others to read and critique (especially after you find out all the things you thought were done are not done!). I've done it with other things but not fiction like this. My hands and feet have been swollen with hives all day!

Posted by Marianne (Member # 1546) on :

Is it too late for a read?

Posted by Eljay (Member # 1941) on :

Me, too, if it's not too late. I'm allergic to onions, but that's ok.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Marianne, Eljay - Thank You!

It is so kind of you to read back to older posts and offer to go over my story. As I am revising (have revised, but am waiting for some critiques so I can clean and tighten) I will need new readers. If you don't mind waiting a few days, I would love to send it to you. I will admit that in changing the story based on the critiques I received (which actually showed me how my story had gotten away from my original idea and helped me get back on track), the story is now longer - about 4700 words. If that is an issue and you change your mind, I will understand.

Some of the others who offered to read are waiting for the revision. Survivor, Kolona, Yanos, and ccwbass have already read it and basically submitted the same critique (had the same praise and the same issues!) - so I have made significant changes - their comments were invaluable. They gave great critiques - if they ever offer to do any of yours, accept

So I will send it along, with heartfelt gratitude.

Interesting side note - originally I thought I was going to submit to Asimov's to start, but two stories in a recent Analog made me change my mind - I'm thinking the story is a better fit for Analog instead.

Posted by Eljay (Member # 1941) on :

Longer is not an issue. Just send it along when you're ready.

Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :

Everyone has already covered any thoughts I might of had- onions, great for a multi layered story. I actually do find it very intriguing.
Also I want to thank you all. I just was in a very disappointing class online and have been searching for a new teacher. I have signed up for InDepth and am very excited about it. Thank you, thank you - The lesson I learned was that there are some very fine writers that are not so great teachers .

[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited March 18, 2004).]

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Kickle said:

quote:
there are some very fine writers that are not so great teachers.

Ooh! I'm really tempted to get on a soapbox here.

Ah, what the heck!

Writing is certainly one field where I think the cynical saying about "those who can, do; those who can't, teach" is particularly wrong.

Because it is a creative process, a lot of writing can be done on an instinctive or subconscious level, without the writer having any conscious control or ideas about what is actually going on in that process.

I personally believe that the more you know about the process, the better control you can have over it, but there are those who are convinced that understanding their own creative process will ruin the instinctive aspects of it and that those instinctive aspects are what makes it most creative. So they shy away from any real understanding of what happens when they create.

For this reason, there are writers out there who are absolutely wonderful at writing, but positively stink when it comes to trying to teach others how to do what they do. (They don't know what it is they are doing, so how can they teach it?)

Teaching writing is an art all its own, and those who do it well may not even be good writers themselves. They should be good editors, though. And you all should know that editing and writing require very different skills and mindsets.

Okay, end of soapbox.

I really try to restrain myself, but sometimes, I just can't resist.

Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :

Sorry to extend the Hijacking, but I too have signed up for the In-Depth class. Eric should start getting comission from Caleb on this. Anyway, I am anxious to get started.

Posted by mogservant (Member # 1739) on :

Punahougirl you've really written a compelling opening for what I would not, under normal circumstances, find very interesting. What really struck me was that you have a wonderful knack for describing movement and character in a subtle and engaging way. Sadly I am greatly lacking in this talent and would greatly appreciate reading more of your story to learn how you do it (and to see where this goes!). I'm really impressed.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Hi Mogservant, and thank you! I appreciate you asking to read the story - I don't know that I am the model to read from, but maybe I absorbed knowledge from all the reading I do/have done. I'm also learning quite a bit from my current teacher (no problem TruHero, and how do we know Eric is NOT getting a commission??? Haha, just kidding - you'll find the class quite helpful I believe) - but after his latest critique I'm not sure the story should go anywhere (I'm having real 'ending' issues, and while I agree with the critiques I fear I may not be clever enough to come up with the right ending - but I plan to keep trying). However, when my edit of the current incarnation is complete I will happily send it to you - with hopes that you get something from it, and have a helpful critique for me.

Apparently I can manage prose, and the story has promise - I think I'm developing a deep fear that I'm not a story-teller.

I'm going to go bang my head on the 'self-esteem' wall now - the wall that says 'look at all these incredible people who have offered to read your story based on your thirteen lines - you must have something - so go work on the story!'

My twins turned 2 today, so hopefully people will forgive how long it is taking to get out the story they offered to read (we've been busy AWAY from the computer!) - it just never seems ready!

P.S. - Kathleen - it is so true that there are people who are very talented in their field, be it writing or something else, who cannot and should not teach. Teaching itself takes a different set of skills and understanding of a subject. I honestly believe that you must be ABLE to do in order to teach, but you must be able to TEACH in order to teach - does that make sense? I had a chem teacher who knew her chemistry, but could not bring her students to the point that they would 'get it' in any way. It was not just me, and she lost her job the next year (on dept tests, her classes always scored lowest, and the earlier in the day the class was taught, the lower the scores - I was in her early morning class - very embarrassing as two of my grandparents were chemists - my grandfather worked for Dupont - can you say 'nylon'?) Anyway, your soapbox speech is justified - I'm not surprised this applies to writers as well as others. It is great to find out you can learn from people like OSC who apparently CAN DO both write, and teach!

[This message has been edited by punahougirl84 (edited March 21, 2004).]

Posted by Eljay (Member # 1941) on :

Be careful about judging whether someone can teach based on only one set of circumstances - I've seen teachers do poorly in one setting and be outstanding in another. (And it's not necessarily about improving - I've seen one in particular do a really terriffic job in one school, and later do badly in a different one.) A lot depends on the fit between the teacher and the school, if you're talking about institutional teaching, or the teacher and the student(s) if you're talking about other settings. Not everyone learns the same way.

Two-year-old twins?!?! Oh, my! I understand EXACTLY why it takes a while to get things done - my two are 18 months and two-and-a-half. There are days I fear I will never get my novel written, the days when I say, "Give that train back!" and "Don't snatch!" and "Wait your turn!" like a broken record. (Now there's a cliche that will soon be useless!)

Don't hurry on my account - just send it when you're ready.

Posted by Nexus Capacitor (Member # 1694) on :

I'm not really sure why Dr. Cleatis, Sniffer of Onions, is so appealing, but I feel compelled to read more.

Maybe you've hit upon some aspect of writing that I don't quite understand yet.

I'd love to read the rest, please send it along if you wish.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Greg, I certainly wish, I'm grateful that you find him appealing and that he compels you... and I shall, as soon as I'm finished with the current edit. I'm in a quandry, with two different versions - one that my class likes, but Hatrack readers had issues with (well, mostly just the ending, not to scare you off), and a new version that I will be sending to Hatrack readers (who are waiting patiently), that my class is not as enthused with... they like it, but liked the first version better. AUGH!

I know I mentioned somewhere that I thought I'd be sending to Asimov's, but after reading a couple of stories in the Dec 2003 Analog realized it fit there much better. I know you said in your blog you submitted there - is there something in their submission guidelines that is different from what they have posted on their site? I love that you sent it on to Asimov's next (why shouldn't we shoot for the stars???).

My husband hooked me on MST3K when we met - our first Thanksgiving together (before we married) consisted of a meal eaten off his footlocker (we have tables now) while watching the MST3K marathon! So you know Manos, Hand of Fate, and 'sampo' right?

Thanks Eljay for your patience - heck, yours are close enough in age that I know you 'feel my pain' or at least my insanity

Posted by Nexus Capacitor (Member # 1694) on :

I was a bit confused over the double issue of Asimov's also. Looking over the submission guidelines, I found this line, "Borderline fantasy is fine, but no sword and sorcery, please."

Apparently their definition of "sword and sorcery" doesn't include stories about demon kingdoms or fortune-telling dragon gods.

The submission guidlines Analog sent (as my rejection letter) did have more info than the website. Inexplicably, the letter has gone missing. Once I find it, I'll scan it and put it on my website for you. Once it's there, this link should take you there: www.zoominternet.net/~amenophis/rejection.htm

From memory, the difference was additional info on what type of stories they wanted. There was something about wanting heroic characters that never give up, regardless of the situation.

Torgo, sampo and hi-keebas, oh my! I'm about as big an MST3K junkie as you could hope to find. I built a Satellite of Love for my wedding reception. www.zoominternet.net/~amenophis/sol.jpg Luckily, I married a fine woman that's as rabid a sci-fi fan as myself.

If you want to download copies of the MST3K's that aren't available for sale, you can find info about them at www.dapcentral.org

Posted by Nexus Capacitor (Member # 1694) on :

The rejection letter/Analog submission guidelines link is working now.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Thanks Greg, for the additional important info (like you said, about characters), and sharing the photo. Very cool! I had many signs that Jon was the right one for me - like when he let me sew him into a cotehardie with the needle right at his throat... I am re-energized to edit my story - ok, I've been rewriting, but have some additional ideas and research to use, and, well, hum - I need more time. Not like I was doing anything useful between 2-4am anyway... THANKS!!!

Posted by Hendrik Boom (Member # 1991) on :

quote:
He sniffed appreciatively at the strong odor as a few tears leaked down his wrinkled cheeks.

This is my favourite line in the bit you posted. Tears of joy, I imagine. I'd like to read the thing, before or after revision, whatever you think will do the most good.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

Thanks! I'll send it to you - I just finished the newest version (the line you like is untouched) and would appreciate your comments/critique. I am a bit confused - your profile says 'housewife' but pooq.com refers to Dr. Hendrik Boom as a male... so I'll apologize in advance if I address you incorrectly

Lee