I think at this point I need to have a professional editor take a look at my book. Do you have any you can recommend? Any idea how much I'm going to dump out of my wallet for that service?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I've been thinking of the same thing so I collected a couple of names. How much it ends up being depends on the error rate and length I believe. But they give you an idea of what the basic cost would be. And it depends on what you want.
[ March 31, 2012, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Light copyeditting starts at $0.35 a page.
Medium editing: some developmental editing, some copyediting, and some fact checking starts around $2.00 a page.
Heavy editing: mostly developmental editing, runs up to $0.50 a word.
Developmental editing, generally speaking, examines and recommends solutions for craft and voice shortcomings. Copyediting examines mechanical style and recommends revisions accordingly. Copyediting should come after developmental editing. Why comment on a few style concerns per page when a plot is weak or narrative distance is unsettled and substantive rewrites are in order.
Editors who hold themselves out as full-service providers may not be all that. A good editor will comment on what's working in equal or more proportion to what's not working, and why. A good editor will first determine if a creative vision is working and accessible and will tuirn down more editing projects than accept because any given project might not be ready for full-service editing.
[ March 31, 2012, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Thanks. I appreciate the tips and info.
Posted by Foste (Member # 8892) on :
Cat Rambo. I took her editing classes. That lady knows her stuff.
Posted by MAP (Member # 8631) on :
I honestly don't know if this group is any good, but I've read a few of her blog posts, and she seems to really know her stuff.
Worth looking in to.
I think you can ask for her to edit a few pages to see if she is any good for free or for a small fee. I don't think I'd hire an editor to edit my entire novel without a trial run. You need someone who understands what kind of story you are trying to tell, IMO.
Good Luck.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
I do have an editor, several in fact. The first and most intensive one: C'est moi. But I'm not prospecting for work anytime soon. The one greatest piece of advice I can offer to all writers is to go ahead and write a complete raw draft, whether planned to the nth detail or wriiten inuitively, before addressing voice, craft, and style, and in that order.
Voice first because an unsettled voice can point up craft concerns. Craft is settings, plot, ideas, characters, and events. Diagnosing and addressing craft concerns is far simpler with a structural plan.
One way I evaluate a msnuscript is to divide the word count into parts. Two-part, three-part, four-part, five-part, and nine-part or more up to sixteen parts. Two parts for the first half rising toward a main major dramatic pivot or turn and then a second half falling toward a new equilibrium. Three parts for a beginning quarter part which fully introduces a main dramatic complication, a middle half part which escalates the complication and pivots midway, and an ending quarter part which restores equilibrium. And so on.
Another method I use approaches four areas for evaluation: expression, organization, content, and style, again, in that order.
I'm currently carefully scrutinizing a renowned author's short story, which is the first I've ever read that's expressed entirely in fifth person. Fifth person? Yeah, first and third persons are difficult enough, let alone second person. But there's a fourth and fifth person? Uh-huh. Fourth person promotes persons and objects in animacy. Fifth person demotes. Animacy is the comparative standing of persons and objects to an observer. The fifth person story demotes the narrator-protagonist to the point the persona has no id and no ego. Wicked intriguing.
Posted by angel011 (Member # 9765) on :
Can you give a few sample sentences written in fifth person?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
The links are great. I've been kicking around the idea of taking my 15 years of professional copy editing experience and transitioning it into a freelance biz for self-publishing writers. This gives me an idea of what's being offered and at what price.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Sample fifth person sentences:
This person was left behind when this person's friends went to the beach. This person means nothing to them.
One doesn't know how to act in polite company, does one?
Some people don't know their place.
"It rubs the lotion on itself." From Thomas Harris' Silence of the Lambs.
Posted by GreatNovus (Member # 9671) on :
You could make bank Jen, hopefully you'll be kind to your hatrack friends and give us a discount though. ;-)
Posted by Foste (Member # 8892) on :
...can a good foot rub earn me a coupon? I give awesome foot rubs.
Posted by GreatNovus (Member # 9671) on :
Foste shall appear in all of my stories as the token foot rubbing penny pincher.
I think getting a good netowrk of other writers the best way to edit. A lot cheaper that way too. It's important to find someone that understands what you want out of your book if you are to obtain that.
Posted by Foste (Member # 8892) on :
quote:Originally posted by GreatNovus: Foste shall appear in all of my stories as the token foot rubbing penny pincher.
I'd so read that! Posted by angel011 (Member # 9765) on :
Thanks, extrinsic!
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Once again, I appreciate the advice. I will admit that much of what extrinsic said in this comment:
quote:One way I evaluate a msnuscript is to divide the word count into parts. Two-part, three-part, four-part, five-part, and nine-part or more up to sixteen parts. Two parts for the first half rising toward a main major dramatic pivot or turn and then a second half falling toward a new equilibrium. Three parts for a beginning quarter part which fully introduces a main dramatic complication, a middle half part which escalates the complication and pivots midway, and an ending quarter part which restores equilibrium. And so on.
left me in the dust. I'll need some time to fully comprehend what is meant here.
Actually, I've done some copy editing myself, and am pretty good at it. My problems are mostly going to be with logical consistencies in my story, and whether the plot (and various sub-plots), and premise works or not. I can sense problems there, but have no idea how to fix them at this point.
[ April 04, 2012, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Smaug ]
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
An edge for getting a thumb under the concept of an ideal dramatic structure is the three-act drama form: a beginning, a middle, and an end. Word count-wise, a beginning is one quarter of a word count, a middle is half with a peak of tension midway, and an ending is a quarter of the word count.
A bridge between introductions of a beginning and a rising action scene of a middle act is an inciting crisis. An inciting crisis compels a protagonist to act to address a main dramatic complication introduced in a first act.
A bridging crisis spans the midway point of a climax and one spans a middle act into an ending act as well.
A five-act drama has five crisis bridges spanning each act's transition gaps. Some writers label the crises plot points; others name them turns or twists, others, dramatic pivots.
Check during rewriting and revisions if the crises are present to begin with and whether they fall close to their allotted spans. If missing or occurring out of proportion word count-wise, that's a useful way to determine something's off the mark or missing altogether. Also, check that each crisis suits its position and seguence: rising action (escalating tension), climax (peak tension), and falling action (declining tension), beginning, middle, and ending, respectively.
[ April 05, 2012, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Thanks for the clarification, Ex. I appreciate it.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Lucky Bat Books is a set of author's services for those seeking independent publishing or even just prettying up their books before submitting traditionally. I haven't personally used them, but they are in a network of authors I respect (most are writers themselves, they created this service because they found a need in the market for it)
quote:Lucky Bat Books is a set of author's services for those seeking independent publishing or even just prettying up their books before submitting traditionally.
I have nothing to say about their quality of service because I've never used them, but their rates are abnormally high. $30 to $35 per hour is the standard for freelance copy editing.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Based on what @JenniferHicks? Is that for freelance fiction editors? I imagine the market is different for non-fiction, as the book markets are quite different, too.
I think it depends on the kinds of services. This site shows a range of 30-80/hr depending on whether it's light copyediting (all the way through developmental editing.) http://www.the-efa.org/res/rates.php
But honestly, people who go into business for themselves have to set rates that are fair, that the market will bear, and that enable them to pursue their craft however they choose to do it. Presumably all of those are the case with LuckyBat as well as any other services out there.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I was refering to standard Editorial Freelancers Association rates. Search their directory and you'll find a few editors who used to work for publishing houses and the like. The ones who post their rates on their websites are charging about $30 to $40 per hour for fiction editing, among other things. I've seen none as high as $50 per hour. And yes, developmental editing rates are higher, but it's also a much deeper, time-consuming edit.
Edited to add: Obviously KayTi is right that freelancers will charge what they think people will pay. And if Lucky Bat Books can get clients at what I would consider too-high rates, then more power to them.
[ April 05, 2012, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: JenniferHicks ]
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
Josh Essoe is a fellow writer and a professional editor. Plus he is reasonably priced. He edited David Farland's Nightingale book recently. http://www.joshuaessoe.com/ Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Thanks. I'll check those all out. As for now, I'm thinking I'll do another rewrite before then.
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