Thanks
SS
Read a Jane Austen and then Think Pink.
It works every time for me. :*
And if the end result doesn't work for your readers, get them to tell you why - learning is half the fun, after all ;)
It can be a stretch to write as the opposite sex, but enlightening at the same time. And it can then lead into more round, complete characters all around.
I have a WIP that is going to come only from an ultra-independent woman's voice (who, in contrast to the character above, hides the weakness and vulnerability of her character). To prepare, I've been trying to lay hands on as many novels as I can of the genre (fantasy) written in a woman's POV. So far, I've found that the men go for the sassy and witty to portray their women, and female authors go for the introspective (and--surprise--they seem more credible). But that's from a short list, so far.
It's a good exercise, so I recommend you do the same.
In the meantime, this might help.
[This message has been edited by mfreivald (edited October 05, 2010).]
quote:
To prepare, I've been trying to lay hands on as many novels as I can of the genre (fantasy) written in a woman's POV. So far, I've found that the men go for the sassy and witty to portray their women, and female authors go for the introspective (and--surprise--they seem more credible). But that's from a short list, so far.
Not a bad plan. Women (like me) trying to write male characters have probably been thoroughly indoctrinated by all the male MCs out there.
If you haven't already, look up some Lois McMaster Bujold. PALLADIN OF SOULS is from a female POV. THE SHARING KNIFE series (four books, BEQUILED, LEGACY, PASSAGE, and HORIZON) are about 50/50, half from Fawn's POV, half from Dag's.
I've wondered about that also but I went ahead and wrote in a female MC when I thought it should be. I have tried to modal some of female MC's characteristics from the characters of other writers. So far no complaints, about that, from those who have critiqued my stories.
I decided to just go for it and worry about after someone said "She's a man in drag". As I said so far no one has said that.
Really women are all so different. Some do behave very much like men. Just make her a three dimensional character, and I think she should work.
The only time I think that a male writer doesn't get women is when all the female characters act the exact same (Wheel of Time).
quote:
Writing male POV and mentality is just easier for me, being male and all. I feel like I can't fully be inside a woman's mind for dilemmas and the sorts.
Verbatim, that was my own thoughts two years ago. I think every male author thinks that way until he tries to create a female protagonist. You might surprise yourself.
Just keep something in mind: we might be male or female, but above that we're all human. Women don't think that much differently.
PS: the books of the Twilight series are mostly done from a female protagonist's perspective. I read all four books and I must say I didn't regret the time I spent on them. Right up until the movies came out...
quote:
In the meantime, this might help.
I sure hope that guy is a comedian, not a scientist. And even if he is a comedian, he does a poor job, because I didn't laugh once.
quote:Puh-leeze! We're not all like that
you might try putting on a dress and painting your fingernails. ... Read a Jane Austen and then Think Pink.
(I agree with MAP about the Wheel of Time comment--most annoying series I ever read.)
I know you can't get into the MC's head watching movies or TV, but if you want a strong female MC, try watching the original Star Wars movies. Princess Leah is an excellent example of a strong female lead. So are the old Buck Rogers series (Colonel Wilma Deering) and Xena series (Don't forget to check out Gabriel).
I actually think it's easier for a woman to write from a male POV than a man to write from a female POV. When I was a kid and play act with my friends, I almost always ended up playing a male roll... usually the father of our make-believe family. At that time in my life, I hated being a girl and dreamed of being a boy. All that changed when I got into Junior High School (what is call Middle School today) and took an interest in boys.
But at heart, all through my life, I'm very much a tomboy. I don't use make-up, do my nails, go to have my hair styled, or have 20 pairs of shoes in my closet. I hate high heels shoes and can't remember the last time I wore a dress. Maybe back in the '80's? (big shrug). I wear jeans and T-shirts most of the time (jeans and sweatshirts in winter, jean-style shorts and tank tops in the summer). I'd rather be working outside when weather permits than in the house and love the challenge of the great outdoors.
As many of you know, I'm a horsewoman, and most of my friends are of this mold too. Some enjoy getting their hair styled or dressing up, but most prefer the jeans/T-shirt lifestyle much like me. Of course I'm not trying to impress a man anymore either. After 30+ years of marriage, if he doesn't like me now, he never will. LOL
One last note: Have you ever noticed in the TV shows and movies from the '80's & '90's how all the female leads wore spiked high-heels? Even Lynda Carter did in Wonder Woman. These women fought evil villians, and ran over all kinds of terrain in these shoes. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you'd think they'd wear something more practical for what they knew was coming.
Anyway, I hope you folks get my point. Women can be just as tough as men, and sometimes even more conniving than men when it comes to the circumstances. Nothing is more vicious than a p***ed off female, believe me.
Actually, you guys on here might consider brainstorming with some of us female Hatrackers if you run into problems figuring out what a woman might do in any given situation. I'm sure we could help you out 
.
quote:
Actually, you guys on here might consider brainstorming with some of us female Hatrackers if you run into problems figuring out what a woman might do in any given situation.
That is an excellent idea, much more proactive (or, preemptive) than the approach I was planning on taking. In my mainstream WIP, I tell a number of scenes from my leading lady's POV. I was looking forward to my female proofers getting to those scenes because I wanted their unique opinions on how I have her acting and reacting in given circumstances. But, if I were to ask ahead of time, I would already have a good idea of what she should do and say instead of setting myself up for potential rewrites because I guessed wrong.
Ladies...here's your opportunity to change your email addresses!
S!
S!
quote:
Man-Up Solomon. As you write, you might try putting on a dress and painting your fingernails. I wouldn't go so far as to pluck your eyebrows.
Read a Jane Austen and then Think Pink.
quote:
look up some Lois McMaster Bujold.
quote:
But at heart, all through my life, I'm very much a tomboy. I don't use make-up, do my nails, go to have my hair styled, or have 20 pairs of shoes in my closet. I hate high heels shoes and can't remember the last time I wore a dress.
And beyond just responding to what others have said, keep in mind that women are very good at working around their limitations. For example: If something's too heavy we're likely find another way to move it or ask for help rather than risk hurting ourselves or damaging the item.
But yeah, feel free to consult the ladies of Hatrack anytime. I'm sure we'll have plenty of input for you and probably a wide range of it.
It's probably best not to worry about it, much. It takes remarkably few hints to recognize a female form from a silhouette. I don't think it takes many hints in a story to make a believable female character, either. Readers read between the lines, and fill in blank spaces with their own biases. Maybe only when you don't want them to fill in their biases that you become a bit more heavy handed.
On the other hand, there are the Janet Evanovich-type writers who very successfully celebrate viva la difference. Might not want to go there without going to a spa, first.
[This message has been edited by WouldBe (edited October 06, 2010).]
quote:
Don't forget 'Shard of Honor'. Cordelia Neismith rocks.
Absolutely. SHARDS OF HONOR and BARRAYAR are great. I haven't gotten to any of the other Vorkosigan Saga books, yet, but I have some in my to-read stack.
I didn't include those because he specified fantasy and they're science fiction.
He had another story that sounded like a teenage boy's girl-on-girl porn fantasy. But the characaters acted much more like men that he stuck in women's clothes.
In both cases, they were very shallow characters. So I agree that if you simply make them well-rounded people you'll probably hit most of the notes right.
All men are not the same; all women are not the same; there is significant overlap between the sexes just as there are differences.
I write more female than male MCs and I don't think any single critique or review comment has ever been made regarding my characters of either sex as being implausible. Make them seem like real people and they'll be believed even if they aren't "typical" (which too often means "stereotypical")..
There may also be a problem in that men and women mature differently and at different times. I suspect many men become confused at various times, from adolescence on, when women seem to lead in the maturity arena. Men spend much of their early lives "catching up". I suspect this is also cause for their confusion.
Relationships, whether close friendships or adult commitments, are in my mind the best way to clear up this lack of understanding. However, I still believe we often approach situations differently. I understand how my wife views things, but wouldn't always approach the situation the same way. Sometimes, my first reaction to her is not always the right one.
Whatever! Most of the stories I've sold have female protagonists. Yeah, I've asked for details if I couldn't figure it out (like how does it feel to sprout breasts?) but for the most part, I've never worried much about it. I know my characters like I know my friends. If I can figure out what D___ will most likely feel about something, I should be able to figure out what my character Vaya will think too.
And so I wind up writing about girls, from their point of view. (I would have thought this sort of thing would've cooled down as I approach fifty, but so far, only a little.)
I asked my husband what motivates men so he quoted Scarface to me ..first you get the money...then you get power...and then you get the women.
My retort was that women's motivations are the same, just in reverse order...first you get the man, then you get the power, then you get the money.
All tongue-in-cheek of course!
[This message has been edited by redux (edited October 08, 2010).]
[This message has been edited by philocinemas (edited October 08, 2010).]
The story, "A Questionable Client" by Ilona Andrews is in "A Dark and Stormy Knight" edited by P.N. Elrod. While reading it I knew the MC was female even though I missed her name in the opening. Maybe my subconscious picked up on it but just the way she talked about how her boots were ruined and how someone suggested how to clean them which started a chorus of other ways, made me think the MC was female. It's first person by the way.
What I'm getting at is how she spoke and thought about the situation, her boots and keeping a sword as her main weapon, made me think female even though a rough and tough one. Could be it was written that way because the writer is female but I think its an example of how a female MC would think.
Of course I don't think you have to write it out in a certain way but this is one way.
One is the anthology is Knights not Knight. Second: I really love that title I want to use it or something very similar
I think that part of the problem men may have with writing female POV is that unlike women who are encouraged and in older days forced to appreciate works of fiction written from a male POV (esp. for us fantasy and SF lovers) for lack of alternatives, men have not been encouraged by society and culture to do the opposite.
Bad example, but how many guys have you spotted on the train with a copy of "Twilight" in their lap? Wheras a woman reading the lastest John Grisham or Tom Clancy or a classic Asimov novel would not be reproached.
He said it was a good experience and that it was more enjoyable than expected. I haven't read it myself so I can't comment.
On a related note I heard a radio broadcast recently about how exposing oneself to opinions/viewpoints different from one's own will increase creativity in areas completely unrelated to the dissenting opinion. Here's a link to the episode of the Spark for anyone interested. It's the segment "Twitter Strangers", specifically the part about Charlan Nemeth's research.
[This message has been edited by Ethereon (edited October 27, 2010).]
She's orphaned at fourteen and apprentices herself to a blacksmith and then goes into the King's army and becomes an expert swordswoman. So rather than just have her become a swishy man, I'm planning on installing a character arc where she is finding her femininity after a mid-novel crisis and the desire to find a balance where she feels she needs to be an action character and still feel like a woman. That gets resolved by a male she meets that helps her though the final conflict.
Hey you girls out there, does this feel like the right path? (She's not into breast comparison and its doubtful that she'll ever reach that stage.)
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited October 27, 2010).]
It sounds like you have a pretty good arc. One thing you'll need to keep in mind is the status of women in the society. Even if they're considered equals, do they regularly become swordswomen and join the army? Or is she the only one doing it? Or maybe she's one of few. Then you could have some other female warriors for her to discuss these things with. My point being that if it's a man's world, she will have to deal with proving herself and she'll have to be better than any of the 'equal' men to do it. That is, unless it's a society where this is common.
One of the conflicts you could consider for her is wanting to be more feminine but not losing her edge in battle. Maybe she doesn't know how to do that. I remember as a kid, my grandmother would advise that I 'let the boys win sometimes'. I never did because that sounded stupid to me. They would at some things, I would win at others, but I would never throw the game. In that, I got their respect and friendship. It didn''t hurt the dating potential (a little later on as I was referring to elementary school) and any boy who would have been intimidated by that wouldn't have been the right fit and would not have appealed anyway. The man that wins your MC's heart at the end needs to respect her abilities, and even challenge them a little.
Hope this helps.
quote:
Hey you girls out there, does this feel like the right path? (She's not into breast comparison and its doubtful that she'll ever reach that stage.)
Fourteen's old enough to have started "thinking like a girl" in some ways, so you need to figure that in, too. It's old enough to have started having her period every month.
Maybe her life hasn't given her any opportunities and she has pushed those thoughts aside in favor of survival. Maybe it would even have been dangerous for her to reveal that she was a girl in some of the circumstances. I think you'll have to deal a little with why she hasn't already discovered her own feminity, though, at least a little.
Did she pass herself off as a boy when she apprenticed to the blacksmith? I'm guessing from her choices, this girl was probably something of a tom boy to start with--and justifiably may be a late bloomer about some girly things, because of that.
It won't be exactly like Katsa in GRACELING, because your MC presumably had a normal life before she was orphaned. You'll have to show at least a little, how that normal development was derailed and delayed, I think. Obviously, an arc pretty much like what you described can work very well, however.
What do I mean by this? Take Ursula K. Le Guin's Tombs of Atuan. The gist of the story is that Tenar is consecrated to dark nameless gods, is trapped into their service, and spends most of the story wandering a dark labyrithine tomb. Eventually she gains her freedom and is able to live in the greater world. The protagonist, Tenar, is female. The author could have easily made her male - there is nothing specific about the way she talks or reacts to other women that make me think "what a girl!" To me she is just Tenar. However, her gender is relevant because I believe the story is making a cultural commentary on gender roles and cultural expectations. Because Tenar is female, then the tomb can be seen as a symbol for a womb, the fact that it's also a labyrinth and dark can be read as women being kept in the dark, subjugated, lost, and so on. If Tenar were male, then the story would be rather Freudian, I suppose. But because Tenar is female, the author can use a lot of symbols associated with feminity to give the story greater depth.
On the other side of the spectrum, take Robert E. Howard's Conan stories. While I love Conan's adventures, there really isn't not much depth to this character. But the stories work because it's the quintessential male fantasy of a manly man doing tons of manly things.
Anyway, to me there is nothing worse than actually feeling like the author put in this big bright arrow pointing at their character's private parts just to say "see how manly man or girly girl my character is." It really is sort of a crutch for lack of characterization. So, make gender references only if it's relevant to the story, but please don't throw in vapid stereotypes just to point a finger at your character's gender.
[This message has been edited by redux (edited October 27, 2010).]
quote:
Anyway, to me there is nothing worse than actually feeling like the author put in this big bright arrow pointing at their character's private parts just to say "see how manly man or girly girl my character is." It really is sort of a crutch for lack of characterization. So, make gender references only if it's relevant to the story, but please don't throw in vapid stereotypes just to point a finger at your character's gender.
Hear! Hear! Absolutely the character comes first.
At the same time, if your character arc has some particular change for the character, something she strives to balance, there may need to be a reason it was out of balance in the first place. Just sayin'.
And I think GRACELING is a pretty good example to follow (broadly). The reason for the imbalance will be different, is all.
quote:
I'm currently converting a heroic fantasy from male MC to female YA MC. My first step has been to change gender in the original manuscript. (he said to she said). Having thought about it, I realize that I have to put in a second round of conversion and that is sprinkling feminine clues about the place. Oddly enough, I find myself putting more vanity into her character. She thinks about her hair. She looks at other women and wonders why she isn't wearing a dress and why she doesn't want to wear a dress.
To understand how women and men differ, I start with neuropsychology. It has been proven that the communication center of the human brain develops far earlier in girls than in boys. Both boys and girls develop neurological pathways through action AND communication, but the female brain relies much more on communication (i.e. words), while the male brain relies much more on action and shared activity.
Neurologically, it's all about what prompts the development of pathways and connections in the brain, and men and women are distinctly different. women connect to their external world more through talking, describing, making comparisons, etc., while men connect to their external world more by doing, ranking, etc. I used the word *more* because there are no absolutes. Women bond with other people more through communicating, while men bond with others more by doing things together.
Internally, men tend to reflect more on what happened (i.e. the action), while women reflect more on what it meant (i.e. what the event communicates to her and others). A girl/woman is much more likely to consciously think about her feelings (which are a form of self-communication), while a boy/man is more likely to think about what he should do next, or his status. I'm not saying men don't have feelings, I'm just saying that, neurologically, men are more likely to not think consciously about their feelings. I say *more likely* because there are no hard and fast rules.
Just the fact that your character wonders why she's not wearing a dress does not make her female to me. On the other hand, if she loses a swordfight against someone she doesn't respect, and then her thoughts are preoccupied with how that made her feel, I will buy it. If she's a tough chick, she will then pull herself together, make a decision, and move forward.
- Katie
This is a YA novel and the biggest part of the market is female, so I'm going to give the readers someone who, as she is nudged along by a god, seeks to find her own identity.
That's why I need to give her a feminine voice. The MC in Graceling is an equivalent character, but she still is dealing with these issues.
Ursula LeGuin has a different audience and has a body of work that gives her the ability to write a neutral character.
Heck, I just want to get a book sold.
quote:
I honestly don't believe that a male or female point of view exists, only a character's PoV. Gender really is ancillary. It's only relevant if the story is trying to make a commentary on cultural differences between men and women.
I don't think the story has to be making it a point to be a commentary for those differences to arise though. While it can be overdone, the place a character fits within their culture certainly informs their choices and their pov. It changes their challenges and how they have to respond to them. This goes for gender, race, class, size, intelligence, etc.
So if the MC's challenge is finding her femininity while still being a strong warrior, then that's a valid challenge. The trick is that she needs to respond to it in a way that is appropriate to the culture she's been brought up in, and what's true to her character. So yes, character first, but I don't think that's necessarily putting a big arrow on it. I also trust Owasm not to do that. He knows what he's doing.
To flip it though. How would this story go differently if the MC were a boy who was never very good at the 'boy stuff'. He always liked art and music and flowers but fighting never interested him. First, would he ever feel that he had to 'find his masculinity'? If the answer is no, then you have a gender informed difference right there. If the answer is yes, I'd like to hear more because it's not a story you hear too often, is it?
But let's take that boy and give him a reason to want to learn to fight. Maybe his family is killed and he wants to get revenge. How is his journey different from the girl who wants to find her femininity? They are both trying to change something about themselves. How are their internal struggles different? How are they the same? What about the external struggles?
See, now you've got me going. These are just questions for thought though. What do you think?
quote:
(She's not into breast comparison and its doubtful that she'll ever reach that stage.)
Most women are *never* into this, never reach this stage.
Fourteen year-old girls are notoriously self-conscious about their bodies (though for most 14 year olds, they are starting or through puberty, so whatever body changes have happened already and they're starting to grow comfortable in their skin, some to flaunt their new figures. Exception rather than the rule, though.)
My suggestion is to leave her body out of the narrative, as in the fantasy setting you describe she has much more going on than to worry about whether that tunic and jerkin make her look fat. And digressing into opinions about her looks is one common mistake men writing women make, IMHO.
You're right about leaving the body out of it. But on breast comparison, Owasm was making a joke about an earlier post in the thread where I talked about a male friend of mine who liked to do that when writing his female characters. Maybe he just forgot to put one of these next to it.
Is your character vain? Don't make your MC vain just because she's a girl. Don't make her preoccupied with clothing just because she's a girl. These are gender biases.
Now, if her vanity is a result of her environment and upbringing, by all means work it into the plot. For instance, if in the fantasy world you create beauty is a preferred quality in women over brawn, then it's believable if she becomes concerned with her looks and fears getting scarred in a sword fight.
Or perhaps the social expectations is that she is told time and again that the only way she will ever win the heart of her love interest is by wearing dresses and being prim and proper. So she starts wondering about fashion, comparing herself to the other girls. So while she is an amazing warrior and has the admiration of men, socially she might feel uncouth and an outcast.
This is perfect fodder for YA books - the constant battle between who the character feels they are and what society expects them to be.
So, if you want to write a female MC just make a list of what you want your fictional society to expect from women, then make a list of what your female MC really wants, and then have her rail against the machine.
Edited:
I found this interesting article online about gender imbalance among Middle Grade/YA writers: http://charlotteslibrary.blogspot.com/2010/06/gender-and-writers-of-middle-grade.html
[This message has been edited by redux (edited October 27, 2010).]
Write a real person, and then see if anything rings false because of gender. (She shouldn't be scratching her balls. ;-) )
This is just an opinion -
Of course, time, place, culture, and religion will effect the status of how a female and male is expected to act on a whole. Especially if the government or society is oppressive and enforces a certain standard of living. Are there emotional differences between the sexes - yes, but that line has grown a lot thinner as women have become bosses and men have stayed home to care for the kids. The days of only men being sexiest pigs and only women the down-trodden are slowly ending,(Excluding third world countries) and I'm not trying to say this in a bad way but as example. Women don't handle the shackles power any better or worse than men, and men don't do any better or worse at caring for the family. Each person, whether male or female has to be measured individually of how they will stand the test of dealing with power and family.
That being said - body, hair, clothing, and physical ability for both genders should be measured by functionality to environment or attracting a mate.
Two classic examples: One gal I use to date said she hated dresses and lingerie, especially thongs, but wore them for sexual encounters. She was a jeans and t-shirt gal. Made perfect sense to me. A guy friend use to always go out clubbing only in suits, even hip-hop clubs. I asked him why when he barely wore one to the office. He said it made him look serious and professional which helped him stand out from the herd. Again it made sense to me. No one cares that much about their looks when they're doing their own thing or just trying to survive, but when the hormones start going, and rutting seasons here, every member of the tribe is going to clean up and pull out their best ceremonial wears, and take part in the mating dance. It's just nature 101.
and before I get yelled at: There are other reason to dress up: work, religion(Church, etc), weddings, funerals, family gathering, and holiday's.
My point being the closer in equality a society shares all its responsibilities between the genders, the more similar in trait they will be. Each individual then equal in environment has to be measured by individual accomplishment, whether in war, work, or family.
Lastly, the slight physical difference in physical strength ratio, and that one gender is an (in) the other an (out) causes a slight difference in how each handles persuasion and threats.
I do feel as a male beginning writer that I have been both fortunate and unfortunate to have known extreme tomboy gals, high society glamor gals, and many in between. All of which were never shy about telling me about everything I was getting wrong about their gender. So I do consider myself an expert at always getting it wrong.
But this is just my 2 cents. Feel free to laugh and discard.
W.
[This message has been edited by walexander (edited October 27, 2010).]
I do believe that the suggestion that I write out the cultural ranges is highly useful. This is probably an equivalent to a 17th/18th century environment, so there are women in dresses and women in an environment where more tomboyish behavior is accepted.
However, as I stated, she's been a tomboy (two older brothers) and remains in the tomboy environment for most of her adolescence. I don't have any problems with females in short stories, but this discussion has shown that the 'discovery arc' is an important one when crafting such changes in a YA novel.
My next novel (outlined but not written) has a female MC that will confront the opposite problem. She goes from finishing school to having to escape for her life. She has to figure out how to harden up rather than how to soften up. I'll have to sketch the same kind of thing. However in that world, women are expected to be much less independent.
Thanks for enlightening me, Hatrackers.
[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited October 27, 2010).]
quote:
Women bond with other people more through communicating, while men bond with others more by doing things together.
Also, on a side note, I was curious - When a woman is "dumped" for another woman, are self-comparison's more likely?
No. 1 reasons women felt they were dumped - the other gal was younger, prettier and/or more of a sl*t.
No. 1 reasons men felt they were dumped - they were not athletic enough and/or rich enough.
These tend to be common comparison issues I've noticed.
W.
quote:I would argue that narration vs. dialogue does not equal action vs. communication. You can narrate communication, thoughts, etc. You can show action through dialogue.
Among male and female readers, is there a preference as to the ratio of narration vs. dialogue when reading stories?
Look at sports commentating shows, like Sports Center. Those are grown men, sitting around doing nothing but talking. But they aren't communicating any meaning to one another. It's all about the action. They are bonding through shared recollection of the actions of the game.
My personal preference as a reader is for minimal description (I don't care what color his eyes are, unless it's a plot point!) and a good balance between forward motion (action), and communication and reflection. Male characters who do nothing but grunt and act without any reflection bore me. Female characters who do nothing but emote without getting off their butts and doing anything disgust me.
For reference, I'm a woman who is a rough and tumble tomboy, but I also watch my weight, wear makeup, do my hair, and have a very sharp sense of style if I do say so myself. I like to shop, I like shoes. I also like martial arts and getting scruffy and muddy on the hiking trail. Go figure. Human beings are complex.
quote:YES! I have been both the girl dumped and the girl who caused the dumping, and in both cases there is *extensive* comparison going on. Some of it is about physical characteristics, but not all. Was she more supportive? Was she less of a nag than me? Or was I too much of a pushover, while she stuck her ground? Is she more fun? Did she put out more? Was I too much of a workaholic? Or did I give up too much of my own life? And the most obsessive line of self-questioning of all: Let's think of every possible thing I could hypothetically have done or been differently! When I've been the cause of the dumping, it's more comparing how I was superior to the original girl, but the same sorts of topics. Fortunately, neither of these situations have happened in years.
Also, on a side note, I was curious - When a woman is "dumped" for another woman, are self-comparison's more likely?
[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited October 27, 2010).]
quote:
I don't really buy the interchangeability of genders. Women think differently than men and in the vast majority of cultures, identify significantly as women.
This is a YA novel and the biggest part of the market is female, so I'm going to give the readers someone who, as she is nudged along by a god, seeks to find her own identity.That's why I need to give her a feminine voice. The MC in Graceling is an equivalent character, but she still is dealing with these issues.
Ursula LeGuin has a different audience and has a body of work that gives her the ability to write a neutral character.
Heck, I just want to get a book sold.
I can relate to that last comment. And I also pretty much agree with the rest of it. I can't think of any specifics in literature but on TV there was the mechanic on Firefly, who seemed to fit what you are trying to do. Hmm, maybe a little bit in a series by Mike Reynolds(?) Anyway what I'm trying to say is that there are stories were the tough female warrior learns to dress like a woman and to act more feminine- in whatever culture she is living in. So there is precedent.
Women are attracted to power while men are attracted to looks.
Of course this is over simplification there are over things in play, such as not every guy chooses the prettiest girl he can get, and not every girl chooses the most powerful. Also power can mean many things to women, money, muscles, good looks, intelligence, fame, stature, ect.
quote:
Oddly enough, I find myself putting more vanity into her character. She thinks about her hair. She looks at other women and wonders why she isn't wearing a dress and why she doesn't want to wear a dress.
LOL, don't pretend you guys weren't a little vain in high school. Come on, once you hit puberty you started showering without your mom telling you to. You worried about smelling bad, having nice clothes, and fussed with your hair even though you pretended that you didn't care. I know I had brothers.
Maybe most girls do a little more of this than boys, but this isn't just a female thing. It is a teenager thing.
By the way, your character arc sounds good to me. It sounds like a coming of age story. Just get some female beta readers to see if you nailed the POV. Good luck.
[This message has been edited by MAP (edited October 29, 2010).]
It depends on the woman.
There. Done.
Not enough to be helpfull? OK, is she smart or dumb? Young or old? Gay orNot enough to be helpful? OK, is she smart or dumb? Young or old? Gay or straight? Pretty or ugly? Short or tall? Good childhood or rough time? Faith-holder or rationalist? Educated or ignorant?
I would tend to suggest that once you have established the purpose of the character in the story and know her background/life, then most of the problems of writing from her point of view will disappear.
I wrote from the POV of two women in Prison Of Power (it’s free from smashwords) and I have been told by women that they ring true, but what did I do? I wrote about two people, different people. One is a consort (bit on the side with some status) and the other a general who has (and does) lead men into battle. After deciding that they were women I pretty much forgot about it and wrote about what they thought and felt as the situation demanded. People. Different.
Now I am done, because I’m not longer sure what my point is. Women are different from men in their heads – they are (in some respects) but some are more different than others.
Times up.
[This message has been edited by Chris Northern (edited October 29, 2010).]
W.
A story by Rachel Caine, "Even A Rabbit Will Bite".
I strongly suspected the MC was female even though it didn't say for a couple of pages. Maybe it was the writer, or that the MC "shuffled to the kitchen table". I can't really put my finger on the reason but I think it was the whole first two pages. How the MC thought, how she moved etc.. It's first person and that helped I think.