Vatar in The Shaman's Curse, Valeriah in Blood Will Tell, and the male MC in Dreamer's Rose gets an honorific Va' added to the front of his name towards the end of the book.
What is my thing about the letter V? I'm going to have to think about changing the honorific in Dreamer's Rose, just for variety.
[This message has been edited by Meredith (edited November 18, 2009).]
It's a conspiracy!
Or, if anyone notices, you could just say that since there's a 1 in 17,576 chance of your three main characters starting with V... it's just coincidence!
I just have a thing for A names. I named my daughter one, and love most others. <shrug> it's kind of silly, but once I noticed that I had been doing it, I decided to keep it up because there are plenty of A names I like. Anya, Annika, Amelia, Annie, Ali, ... forgetting some.
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Have you seen the tv series (or did you watch the original when it came out)?
I haven't been watching the new series. I actually have the original one on DVD
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just have a thing for A names. I named my daughter one, and love most others. <shrug> it's kind of silly, but once I noticed that I had been doing it, I decided to keep it up because there are plenty of A names I like. Anya, Annika, Amelia, Annie, Ali, ... forgetting some.
Me too. Both of my daughters have "A" names.
Then theres the convention in one of my fantasy worlds wherein mages have an additional name or title that relates to teir magic, though it doesn't always follow the same structure (Theres Stromael, the Stormcaller for instance, who you've already met, Meredith, but then theres Lightmaster Aronos as well.)
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Or, if anyone notices, you could just say that since there's a 1 in 17,576 chance of your three main characters starting with V
I did do a dramatis personae for the one novel I completed, let's see if I can dig it out...
Angelaki Kalimankou Narrator, barmaid in the Black Bear, Polevitsa; former soldier in Enver’s first rebellion
Enver Jovanke Exiled Prince of Stara Gradejska, claimant to the throne of Vlakhia
Julietta Jovanke Enver’s wife
Giolaban Tsezar of Vlakhia, called (by some) the Tyrant
Yvane Kosomila Tsigani fortune-teller, old friend of Angelaki
Bletzie Samovadja Ban of Sveti Stefan, supporter of Giolaban
Filip Koronyev Ban of ?, general in Enver’s army
Rupkina Banovic Bana of Veliko Tarnat
Donaslaw Ban of ?
Zubraw Borocevska Commander in Enver’s army
Draha Uldenkou Former Ban of Radomir, executed after the Enver’s first rebellion
Janos Pansokje Owner of the Black Bear, a tavern in Polevitsa
Anatoli Panoskje Janos’s elder son
Tibor Panoskje Janos’s younger son, soldier in Enver’s army
Martika Barmaid at the Black Bear
Aleksa Villager in Polevitsa
Petar Villager in Polevitsa
Vestjen Villager in Polevitsa
Georgieva Villager in Polevitsa
Dejan Captain in Radomir militia
Pavel Soldier in Radomir militia
Jertzy Villager in Polevitsa
Stoian Villager in Polevitsa
Vasili Soldier in Radomir militia
Ferents Soldier in Enver’s army
Dimer Soldier in Enver’s army
Istvan Soldier in Enver’s army
Mariela Soldier in Enver’s army
Doike Soldier in Enver’s army
Mihaly Soldier in Enver’s army
Nikola Pamic Soldier in Enver’s army
Kalinka Messetschinko Owner of Begvad’s tavern, Sveti Simeo
Petar Soldier in Enver’s army
Karoly Soldier in Enver’s army
Martyen Soldier in Enver’s army
Yvan (Little Vannie) Soldier in Enver’s army
Yvan (Big Yvan) Soldier in Enver’s army
Mir Captain in Enver’s army
Goran Commander in Enver’s army
Mladen Ban of ?
Savo Soldier in Enver’s army
Jovili Matsurenka Ban of Blavinje, supporter of Giolaban
Stefan Dusvara Ban of Radomir
Karoly Divicenko Farmer’s son, soldier in Enver’s army
Waldje Commander of Giolaban’s navy
Gavor Morosovic General in Enver’s army, formerly in Giolaban’s service
Mihaly Prince of Sveta Marya
Mannheim Mercenary captain, leader of the Red Eagles, a company in Giolaban’s service in Enver’s first rebellion
Avoletto Mercenary captain in Giolaban’s service
I don't even think that's a full list, I can immediately think of two who aren't on there (Ukas, a miller, and Surghey, a captain), so clearly I must review it at some point! But anyway; lots of named characters, but the main ones should all be thoroughly distinct. Be interested in any comments...
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/names_files.html
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Many of them tend to have a Celtic or Brythonic feel
With my own name, Donavan, being Celtic (Dark Warrior) I tend to use Celtic names for characters too, from any name meaning, or Celtic mythology websites.
Being ex-Navy, I tend to use names of previous USS naval vessels for my spacecraft names; Houston, Roosevelt, Escape, and match them up to the function of the spacecraft...staying away from the USS Enterprise of course...and as someone recently pointed out with Houston (Houston, we have a problem...) I will probably throw that one away too.
Some people would be named for land features, others for their jobs, some for plants and animals common nicknames. If you have many races, you might have
Oak, the elf, handed his pack to Wolf, the gnome, so he could set it with the rest of the luggage they would not take into battle. Riverbridge the dwarf bent over, stretching his legs while Porter, the human sharpened his blade. The blorgen caravan snaked up the trail to the ambush the team had set up.
I tend to have my made up female names being soft while my male made up names as being harder.
Coming up with naming conventions really helps a lot for characters. It would be part of your world creation process.
Edited to replace early morning drivel
[This message has been edited by rstegman (edited November 11, 2009).]
One is to write out something terse describing the character and fiddle with that. For example- "I rule" morphed into Irulian. I liked it so much I named my first born daughter that. She loves it.
The other method is similar. I have oodles of weird dictionaries (Farsi to Latin dictionary, anyone?), some left to me by my father, a linguist and expert himself on names.
I pick a language and use only that one for morphing names for a race so that there is some "feel" of similarity to the names by the repetition of letters. For example - Ennismahi, Aggaharn, and Hensitaryo-gnihe are all lysiscan names.
- V for Vendetta
(be sure to check out the name mapper and the name voyager)
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited November 11, 2009).]
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I remember---and this was years ago, so don't ask me to remember when and where I saw it---a writeup where somebody was trying to deduce George Lucas's middle name from the names and patterns used in "Star Wars."
Won't work. My middle name is very short. And there's no V anywhere in my name or the names of any of my immediate family. In fact, off hand, I can't think of anyone in my extended family that has a name with a V in it, let alone one that starts with V.
As for coming up with names..well...I tend to stick to boring names and use a last name or a title to describe their profession, attributes or what they're famous for. Calia Strongarm, Aaron Peacemaker, Thomas Farseer, Maria Goldenhair, Sarah Mender...ect. I only get more creative with names when I'm looking for a name that means something. A name that is different and therefore important. I google 'English to ??? translator'. I plug in whatever language I think would be appropriate for the character. Once I find a translator I just start searching words that would describe my character.
I used this method to come up with a name for a sword with a soul in my WIP. I used this English to Latin translator: http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookdown.pl
To find the meanings I was looking for I had to think about the story behind the sword. The sword was the embodiment of a dead paladin. He asked that his soul be preserved in the sword so that he could protect and watch over his posterity. Time passed, bad guys got a hold of the sword and twisted it/him. So I typed in 'fallen' into the translator and found: ancile -is n. [a sacred shield , supposed to have fallen from heaven].
Then I typed in 'sword' and found: ensis -is m. [sword].
So there was the name I needed....Ancilensis. To me it means a sword that was once a protector that has fallen. In this case, I didn't think tweaking was needed after I mashed the two words together. In other cases I do tweak a little.
Edit: Late night speeling and gud gramerz >.<
[This message has been edited by RillSoji (edited November 12, 2009).]
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I remember---and this was years ago, so don't ask me to remember when and where I saw it---a writeup where somebody was trying to deduce George Lucas's middle name from the names and patterns used in "Star Wars." ("Walton," if memory serves me right.)
Robert, I wrote up something like that for a SW fan publication called LANDSPEEDER. I may have mentioned it a few other places as well. The middle name for Lucas that I guessed in my article was William, so I was pretty pleased at how close I was to his real middle name, Walton.
On another note, I tend to like real words for names in my fantasy writing. Some names I've played with are Quick, Finder, Story, and Latch. Sometimes the names fit the people (Quick is easily angered and fast on the draw, Story lies a lot, etc) but other times I just liked the sound (as in Latch or Slew).
And don't get me started on Super Hero fiction names.
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Robert, I wrote up something like that for a SW fan publication called LANDSPEEDER. I may have mentioned it a few other places as well. The middle name for Lucas that I guessed in my article was William, so I was pretty pleased at how close I was to his real middle name, Walton.
Yup, wherever I got it, it had to have originated with Kathleen, though I'm sure I didn't see it in "Landspeeder."
(How can I be sure? I remembered, but didn't mention, Kathleen's guess at "William.")
Annepin - thanks for the website link, it's very cool
As for Sauron and Saruman, part of the depth of Tolkien is his use of multiple created languages. The names came out of that. (Also both characters, along with most of the others, had multiple names in different languages. Saruman was called Curunir, the White Hand, and Sharkey, and maybe others I can't recall.)
I forget where I read this... a link off something someplace sometime. Hopefully not a link already posted in this thread. Though that would be hilarious, and I get 'meta' points for preemptively making fun of myself.
But yeah its mostly the language thing that causes that. His character names arent, in the typical sense, just invented out of nothing. They come from the entire fabric of his fully crafted fictional languages.
Most people I know are completely confused by everything in LOTR anyway to be honest. Most "regular" people, non genre fans that is.
Get from point A to Point B in order to save the world from an incredibly evil power who, like most fantasy villains, is evil for no apparent reason. Other than the typical "lust for power".
At one point during the ROTK movie my partner's mother asked, refering to Gandalf "He's the good king, right?"
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Get from point A to Point B in order to save the world from an incredibly evil power who, like most fantasy villains, is evil for no apparent reason. Other than the typical "lust for power".
That seems like a very good, very apparent reason for being evil to me. And its typical mostly because in the end, most evil boils down to a lust for power and/or total selfishness. Now I know a lot of people insist no one sees themselves as a villain, but I personally don't buy it. First off, some basically do...I don't think Ted Bundy really tried to justify his acts even to himself. He may have tried to blame pornography or whatever but he fully realized he was commiting heinous acts. And even those who do try to "justify" their actions...it doesn't mean they don't realize they are evil. It just means they are trying to justify it or make themselves feel better about it. (this is putting aside genuinely ambigious figures, like say Magneto who isn't really an evil person even if he does morally unacceptable things. He actually does have some valid reasons for them, not just excuses.)
Now I accept that's empirical evidence, always of limited value, but I've seen that defence used by rapists (and wife-beaters) many a time. Serial rapists and murders MAY be different (I don't, thankfully, know any of them), but it's commonly a convience to put certain types of criminal in a separate box and pretend they are nothing like the rest of us, when reality tends to indicate they are just like us, but pulled further in particular behavioural directions.
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Get from point A to Point B in order to save the world from an incredibly evil power who, like most fantasy villains, is evil for no apparent reason. Other than the typical "lust for power".
In myth, motivation is not an issue. Myth utilises archetypes, and Sauron is evil because the myth demands someone personifies evil (in LOTR, we do not - and do not need - to see his fall; we can infer it, if we wsh, from the parallelism of Saruman).
Most of the post-Tolkein fantasy novelists were not writing myth, they were writing fiction. In fiction, motivations are much more important if the fiction is to be coherent. They may, of course, have been attempting to write myth, but I can't think of successful examples. Terry Brooks' early work is probably the best post-Tolkein example of what I'm talking about here (the obvious mash-up of Tolkein - the Ohmsfords as hobbits and Allanon as Gandalf - with Star Wars - Panamon Creel as Han Solo).
(I'm not sure that Sauron himself would have said he was evil incarnate---there's a late essay on the subject by Tolkien in one of the History of Middle Earth volumes. Appparently, Tolkien came to see Sauron as a figure who wanted to run his own show and rule his domain without interference from the outside. Tolkien compared him to his former master Morgoth (of the Silmarillion stories), who would tear down what others raised up and destroy all---Sauron was not that kind of evil. (Whether Tolkien thought that while writing about Sauron in "LOTR," I can't be sure.))
Isn't that wonderful?
Edited to add:
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 18, 2009).]
So, how many people here learned to read by memorizing the words (ideograms), and how many learned by sounding out the words?
If by ideograms you mean that when I see the set of lines and curves that spell out 'cat' I imagine a cat and for 'catalog' I imagine a cat and a log and associate that with the concept catalog, then no, I'm not one of those people. I don't even see the image of a Sears catalog, or a card catalog (dating myself). That said, certain words aren't at all what I imagined when I had to look them up, so I must have some preconceived ideas associated with words that I don't know. I suppose the same must apply to unfamiliar character names as well.
[This message has been edited by posulliv (edited November 21, 2009).]
Whole language focuses more on comphrension and the entire reading experience while phonics focuses on the mechanics of reading and tends to be more structured.
My sister was taught just phonics and could read but struggled her whole life with understanding and comprehension.
Children are also taught rhyming patterns around this time. Recognizing and especially making rhymes is a developmental skill most children do not fully have or grasp until around 6 years old. That is why nursury rhymes play such an important role in a child's developing brain. The familiarity helps things click.
Phonetic awareness must make use of rhyming skills to be fully effective. Therefore most school systems focus on sight recognition and word families (words that rhyme but have different first consonants, such as bat, cat, fat, ect.) during the initial year of instruction. In late first and second grade, after the brain has reached a more analytical state of development, most schools begin focusing on phonics and word origens to assist children in decoding words.
Depending on the progress of the individual child, they may also begin focusing on grouping (phrases and clauses) and fluency.
I believe this is what is recommended by most of the national education associoations. There are obviously many schools that deviate from this in one way or another, but this is the method of most public schools. Also, it all largely depends on the individual child. For example, I developed a very early ability to phonetically read words, but it took me a long time to become fluent and comprehend phrases or clauses. My son appears to be the exact opposite - he is very fluent and has good comprehension, but has difficulty sometimes decyphering long unfamiliar words.
And bringing this back to character names, how readers learn to read, and to approach long, unfamiliar words may determine how receptive they are to strange names.
I recall the name of the "antagonist" in Patricia McKillip's Riddle of Stars trilogy, and how my approach to that name reflects my determination to apply "sounding it out" to give me something I could think whenever that name came up in the story. As I recall, I "pronounced" that name as something like Gist-es-slo-cum, even though that wasn't quite how it was spelled.
So I submit that if you create a name for a character that readers can manage to "pronounce" in one way or another, they will be more willing and able to think about that character at all.
Sometimes the naming systems some writers use seem to go out of the way to give trouble in pronunciation...I recall the names in Katharine Kerr's "Deverry" series (a pretty good series, but I lost touch around the eighth or ninth book), which seemed to kinda derive from Welsh. Now, the pronunciation of of Welsh names gets really odd...as if the choice of letters to symbolize certain sounds was deliberately chosen to confuse and annoy their English overlords. (Gaelic, too---which, come to think of it, might be another source for Kerr's nomenclature system.)
Should a writer avoid annoying the reader by using an unusual scheme for pronunciation?
Sorry, Kathleen.
Edited to add:
I realize I wasn't the first, but I try very hard not hijack threads. I'm a recovering hijackaholic.
[This message has been edited by philocinemas (edited November 21, 2009).]
All from too many characters with names starting with V. 
I think it's okay for topics to grow out of their original purpose, (1) as long as the original purpose was served, and (2) as long as they don't grow toward flame war potential.
Edited to add:
I think I would define "hijacking" as being along the lines of taking a topic off on a tangent for the purpose of lecturing or complaining about something or other and generating discussion that really doesn't add any new insights or serve as any help to writers.
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 23, 2009).]
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I think I would define "hijacking" as being along the lines of taking a topic off on a tangent for the purpose of lecturing or complaining about something or other and generating discussion that really doesn't add any new insights or serve as any help to writers.
You speak as if that has happened before lol
As far as character names: I no longer subscribe, as the addiction nearly ruined my life (not joking, almost lost a six figure job over it), but if you subscribe to World of Warcraft, they have a name generator for new characters that randomly creates some pretty good fantasy names.
Yesterday, I got into a conversation that veered from our union business (it was after the union meeting), crossword puzzle words (two of us were doing one), where were you when Kennedy was shot (it was the anniversary date), earliest memories and how early they could be in one's life (eleven months in my case), and the earlies memories themselves. (All off-topic here, of course.)
(I don't use accents 'cause it's kinda hard to get at them through my keyboard. Just the other day, I was wondering how much effort I'd have to put into typing out some lyrics in French, with assorted accents.)
"Beware the Piecemaker!"
"The Peacemaker? What are you talking about?"
Now, is the above correct or should both characters have the name of the Piecemaker spelled correctly?
Happy Turkey Day, by the way!
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Now, is the above correct or should both characters have the name of the Piecemaker spelled correctly?
I would think that a change in spelling would only be necessary if the difference in spelling & meaning was actually part of what was confusing the person. Is there a person named Peacemaker in the story? If not then the second shouldn't be capitalized as it's not a proper noun and becomes merely noun.
Stuff like this reminds me of a NaNoWriMo word-padding exercise.
"Hi, my name is Don."
"Dawn?"
"No, Don. You know, Don, not Dawn."
"Ah, I see now. Nice to meet you Don."
This particular bit of confusion wouldn't actually happen in real like as orally the words Don & Dawn are interchangeable and have the same meaning - a person's first name. Now, some sort of confusion like this...
"I gots one bit of advice for you Sallie. Beware the dawn."
"Corleone? Where?!?"
"No, dawn, not Don you lunk-head!"
...makes perfect sense, since the meanings are different. Now, I'm going to suggest that peacemaker be uncapitalized in your story, unless there actually is a character called The Peacemaker. Whoever is saying "Beware the Piecemaker" is probably going to have to explain the difference too, otherwise it won't make sense except as a clever internal joke to yourself that no one else will get.
Only you can answer which suits your story best.
[This message has been edited by Wolfe_boy (edited November 26, 2009).]
If explained by the Piecemaker or the other character, it could be a character development opportunity.
In a dynamic context it could possess dramatic irony, where its unconventional spelling and therefore meaning would be known to an audience, the Piecemaker, naturally, and some characters, but not to other characters. Delaying or not revealing its import to the other characters is dramatic irony. The audience is in on the inside information, but the oblivious characters are not.
Of course, dramatic irony might also be used to keep an audience in the dark, too, which would work if the information is not immediately pertinent early on, but is vital later on and revealed in a dramatic way and not annoyingly untimely. Oedipus at Colonus by Sophocles, 406 BCE, is perhaps one of the best known examples of the use of dramatic irony.
"Beware the Piecemaker!"
"The Peacemaker? What are you talking about?"
I don't see sufficient context there for the second speaker to ask the questions. Actually, there's a seemingly likely possibility that the second speaker has knowledge of the Piecemaker but is feigning ignorance.
Also, opportunities to play Piecemaker off of piecemeal pose possiblities.
[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited November 26, 2009).]
At least that way, it's clear to the reader what the confusion is, even if it isn't clear to the characters.
On the phonics versus pattern matching when reading, I've always been fascinated by the observation that it's possible to "read" something like:
"Olny the fsirt and lsat ltetres need be in odrer for the biran to amesslbe the wrod."
I think that came out of some research from Princeton. I've fooled around with making up names using that premise, a silly example being a character with an underlying happiness to their persona being named "Jufyol".
Maybe it's because I learned to read phonetically, then studied Spanish later (spelling/pronunciation always consistent), but if I see a fictional name that I can't form a mental pronunciation of (even if it's not what the author intended), it will prickle at me every time I come across it.
"...newspapers said/ say what'you doin' in bed/ I said, "We're only tryin' to get us some peace."
...which can be taken several different ways. Be sure of which way, or ways, you intend it to be taken.
OSC's advice is not to give characters names that start with the same letter. Evidently, she didn't read OSC's advice.
The main character is Ista. Her dead husband was Ias. Her daughter is Iselle and her granddaughter is Isara. Ista's new love interest is Illvin. Granted, only Ista and Illvin play any real part in the story. The others only appear by reference. But still, that's a lot of names that start with I.
Kind of makes my having one name that starts with V in each book pale by comparison.
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babooherI have a conundrum with a character name. The idea is that there is a character called the Piecemaker (a play on the term peacemaker). Now, one character knows of the Piecemaker and is telling another who only knows the normal term. It goes something like this:
"Beware the Piecemaker!"
"The Peacemaker? What are you talking about?"
To me, Piecemaker is someone known for cutting up, slashing things, He might be someone who is trying to break up the union.
Peacemaker is someone who tries to end war. They could well be the same person, once all opposition is gone, one has peace...
I do like the name you are using. He might make agreements and treaties that end up pitting one ally against the other. He is using tactics of peace to break unions into pieces.
When it comes to names, I do like to work phonetically, using spellings of names that the spell check says is wrong.
I read about and follow the suggestion, that one should be able to sound out the name and find it pleasing or at least can be pronounced.