I have an amazing idea for two solid stories, as well as a strong synopsis for both. The only problem is that I have not written the actual draft of the story yet. I have a feeling that it is preferred to have the actual novel written before presenting it to an agent or publisher, but is it also possible to propose the idea without the actual novel being finished yet? I keep hearing about proposals and such, but does the actual novel need to be completed before telling your publisher/agent about it?
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
I have read everywhere that a novel must be in hand in order to get any traction from an agent or editor. The exceptions to that rule seem to be if you are a relative of the agent/editor, if you are a movie star or an industrial mogul or if you are a very successful novelist therefore a known quantity.
If you are successful getting a response, the first thing an elusive agent or editor does is ask for the manuscript. If you don't have one, it's bye-bye.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Once you have a publishing track record (so that they know you can complete a novel that will sell), you can sometimes sell a proposal.
First time authors rarely ever sell proposals, though.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Publishers and agents will consider a book proposal from established successful authors, extremely rarely for first time authors with no celebrity status. Charles Frazier's Thirteen Moons earned an $8.5 million advance based on a proposal, before he'd written it. It only sold half of the first print run of 750,000 copies though. Estimates are that it lost the publisher $5.5 million on the advance. It didn't perform up to publisher expectations compared to Cold Mountain Frazier's debut hit novel that sold three million copies and film rights that possibly ran into several million dollars. The film earned $173 million on a budget of $86 million and numerous awards.
Other books gone bust over high author advances in a New York Times article; "Have We Reached the End of Book Publishing as We Know It." http://nymag.com/news/media/50279/index7.html
Posted by ChaosPaladin (Member # 8583) on :
So as a first timer, what would be the best approach to proposing a book to someone?
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
An independent writer proposing publication for payment would be writing the novel and submitting a completed manuscript's portions, synposis, and pitch to publishers and/or agents according to their submission guidelines.
Proposing for payment to write a manuscript is an in-house practice for a publisher's stable of staff writers or accomplished authors they have under contract.
Posted by Nick T (Member # 8052) on :
Hi,
As everyone else has stated, everything I've read indicates that it's only the writer with a solid track record who's going to get very far doing this. I know at least one writer (personally) who can sell proposals, but he wouldn't be in the position without a track record.
Ideas are a dime a dozen and every story idea has already been written in one way or another. If you can combine a fresh idea with solid execution, then you'll get agents biting. To do that, you'll need to have a finished novel. Those with a track record have demonstrated that they have the execution.
Nick
Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
I was at a writer's conference a month or so ago. There were four agents there, and all agreed that you needed to have a complete novel ready before you sent in a proposal (for fiction, that is).
One of the reasons they gave was that if an agent often does judge a book for its sellability (is that a word?) Something that would sell great now might not twelve months from now.
Also, if an agent likes your proposal, they will often ask for a partial or complete manuscript. If they have to wait a long time to receive that, there is a risk that they will lose interest in the project.
Hope that's helpful.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Another reason you have to have a finished product in hand, if you're a newbie, is agents/editors usually have to read the full novel before they can answer such questions as: is the author capable of bringing the book to a satisfying conclusion? I've read on agent blogs that many books fall apart around the 100-150 page mark - something that is completely unpredictable based on a query or partial.
If you're so enthusiastic about your project that you have to talk about it with someone then you've come to the right place. At this stage, what you probably should be doing is getting in with a community of writers and working on turning your fabulous idea into a fabulous book.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
The way I've always heard it is that, if you haven't published a novel before, you have to have one in hand and finished (other than editing and polishing), just to prove to everybody that you can turn in a completed novel.
After that first novel gets published, it gets more complicated...
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
A few years back, I submitted a novel pitch to six publishers and agents, more detailed than a query but not as lengthy as a proposal. I had no expectations of anything beyond testing the waters to see if anyone would reply back favorably. I wanted to see if my concept had legs on it. Two SASE never came back, two came back empty, one came back with a publisher's book catalog and postage due, and one came back with a personal letter. That latter was from a reputable agent. The agent said that the theme was one the agency represented, that they would be interested in reading a completed manuscript, but that they wouldn't, and no other agency or publisher would, make any kind of commitment to an unfinished work or a work in progress by an unknown author.
Miscellanea;
Shortest writing time for a bestselling novel: Three weeks, Jack Kerouac's On the Road.
Average length of time present-day (post wordproccesor introduction) established authors spend writing a novel: 500 hours, but three months or ten years are not uncommon.
Average number of novels written by accomplished authors and published per year: 1.
Average author annual gross income for roughly 8,000 full-time independent English language novel authors: $30,000.
Number of book-length manuscripts in circulation at any given moment: six million.
Number of novels published in a recent year: 18,000
[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited May 19, 2009).]
Posted by ChaosPaladin (Member # 8583) on :
I think I got it down now. Thanks a ton everyone.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I once wrote a fifty-thousand-word novel in a week, but it didn't sell, thank God. Now it takes me somewhat longer.
Aside from that personal experience...well, I think there are some bestselling novels out there that beat Kerouac's time. Unfortunately I can't remember any names. (I know of several SF novels written in long weekends, but they wouldn't qualify as bestsellers.)
Posted by ChaosPaladin (Member # 8583) on :
I do have one more question actually. I have a 10 book series that I plan on doing. Could I submit a completed manuscript of 1 of the books, or it's better to complete all 10 books and send them all at once?
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
I would only write the first book and have outlines or something for the others. If the first book doesn't sell then the other nine probably won't either.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
Hopefully the agent you find will be making a commitment to work with you for your entire career, so you won't need to query with your other novels the way you did with the first (unless you decide to switch agents.) As part of an agent's stable, you will probably just submit an outline/idea to your agent before beginning to write, so that your agent can give you suggestions and advice from the get-go.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I would think you'd want one completed novel of a series, then outlines for whatever you intend to complete...I wouldn't accept an advance for something not at least partially finished, mostly 'cause I don't know when I'll finish things...