I have a character who speaks very "precisely" (enunciates every syllable, doesn't use contractions, and uses very accurate words). The first mention of him in the story is from his POV.
Is it OK to describe his way of speaking without it being a POV violation? (I know that I wouldn't mention his facial expressions or things that he wouldn't see for himself).
"People call me a brainiac and pedant, but I just beleive in concision. Without it we'd still be living it trees."
"I like to say what I mean. Exactly, excrutiatingly what I portend."
Just don't have him looking in a mirror and telling us what he sees like all those chick stories. :-)
If I understand your question correctly, I would say no. However, be careful of telling instead of showing, and if you need to explain your characters speaking it may come off as redundant.
Do you have an example for us?
You have a character who speaks. You have a voice telling the story, which may or may not be the same voice as your character. You have other characters who speak.
Those elements are enough to get across anything you want to say, regardless of that person you are using for your story.
If he is referring to himself, you can set an idea in italics with present tense, and let it be read as a thought or soliloquy
"Way to go genius, just because you have an IQ of 170..."
is a way in which he could describing himself without violating POV
whereas
'Dang, dog. You ain't nottin but some stupid bookreadin fool"
This doesn't reflect his true characteristics.
I am not sure if that offers any help. I am loopy from IV pain medicine at the moment.
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Do you have an example for us?
Reading your post, I may have done exactly what you said I shouldn't do, but I'll post the example anyway...(edited for the board)...
“What the f--- happened back there?”
Greg Hansen, the man whom his subordinates addressed only as “sir” or “Panther Six” sat in the front passenger’s seat of the black armored sports utility vehicle that had served as his command center during the operation. He clenched his jaw as he awaited an answer from the two members of his strike team who were seated in the back.
He spoke again to neither one in particular, enunciating every word with precision, “It is not a rhetorical question, gentlemen. I said, what the f--- happened back there?”
“Yes, sir. I… I heard you,” Steve Keglor stammered.
“Then how about answering me!” Panther Six spun the chamber of his nickel-plated .44 magnum handgun and slammed it into the
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 06, 2008).]
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Is it OK to describe his way of speaking without it being a POV violation? (I know that I wouldn't mention his facial expressions or things that he wouldn't see for himself).
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I don't know why you'd bother to, honestly. It's clear you've taken efforts to make his manner clear in his dialogue; why beat the reader over the head with it by pointing it out?
Because I wasn't sure it would be evident. When I read, I usually don't notice the difference in "we will" or "we'll", etc. I didn't know if the general population would either.
Perhaps it even isn't that important. I'm just in the stage now where I'm going over the draft and trying to make sure that each character sounds like him/herself and not like "me".
[This message has been edited by KPKilburn (edited December 06, 2008).]
You see that done. It's significant, but not evident from naked dialog.
Since you didn't ask, let me suggest that you not worry about the point of view so much as the raw exposition. Working raw setup into sentences like the ones about where this guy's sitting and who he is and everything smacks of the amateurish.
Here's the thing. They're reading your story. They have patience regarding the setup. Frontloading it is kind of like no foreplay or something.
I personally don't much care for immediate full name introductions, and multi-namers make it all the more awkward.
Greg Hansen, the man whom his subordinates addressed only as “sir” or “Panther Six” sat in the front passenger’s seat of the black armored sports utility vehicle that had served as his command center during the operation. He clenched his jaw as he awaited an answer from the two members of his strike team who were seated in the back.
There is so much than can merely be suggested by a word, or hooked in with other references.
Both junior members of the strike team were starting to sweat. And not just because the sun was bearing down on the black SUV. Six had a case of the ass and was taking his time about it. But they didn't have any answers for him.
In the front seat Hansen, "Panther Six" his own bad self, was clenching his jaw. He spoke with the careful enunciation that meant he was a hair from going off. He stared out the thick bulletproof windows and wondered how many ways he could word the question, What The F....?
What I'm saying is that you bring things in without spelling them out. You say Hansen is in the front seat, we know the others guys are in the back. Etc. People are being moved along without being shoved, you could say.
I mention this because (apart from my now-revealed mission to destroy and spread ego-havoc) this sort of thing is EXACTLY the kind of first paragraph that leads to the subsequent paragraphs not getting read.
You can actually impart just as much information and also be telling the story and sketching things in.
Good luck
And as I said, POV is not a factor in this. It's third person omniscient, the easiet thing to do.
Which means you can effortlessly see things through the eyes of the backseat guys as well as Mr. Six.
You asked simply if this were a POV violation. The short answer is 'no'. The opening makes it unclear.
quote:
“What the f--- happened back there?”
We don't know who is saying this so this raises flags for a lot of us. I do think you could deal with it with a slight rearrangement.
quote:
Greg Hansen, the man whom his subordinates addressed only as “sir” or “Panther Six” sat in the front passenger’s seat of the black armored sports utility vehicle that had served as his command center during the operation.
“What the f--- happened back there?”
He clenched his jaw as he awaited an answer from the two members of his strike team who were seated in the back.
As far as the rest goes, if you like to post it F & F I would be happy to look at it. But as it is I see no other POV issues
[This message has been edited by snapper (edited December 06, 2008).]
Since you're writing in 3rd person, the description of his speech was not jarring, and for me, at least, achieved what I understand you were trying to achieve.
In other words, a POV violation is what makes the reader ask, "how did he know that?"
Edited to add as an example: when a 1st person POV character describes the way her eyes flash without having access to a mirror, that could be considered a POV violation.
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 06, 2008).]
Or unless another character mentions it. As I said, and don't mind repeating.
No matter what person you use, you have the narration and all characters (plus signs, radio commentary and suchlike props) to input this stuff and a good writer uses them in a way that's not jarring.
"Jarringness" is not a feature of POV, it's a feature of how well one writes.
[This message has been edited by LintonRobinson (edited December 07, 2008).]
Show some respectification for the bestsellerality! (Otherwise he'll repeat himself.)
Sorry. I just couldn't resist. It's the clown coming out again.
I'm currently at the point in my writing where I'm cleaning up "POV issues" (which plagued my first drafts of several stories -- I unknowingly wrote them in 3rd person omniscient and with things that could only be "seen" - kind of like a movie script).
I appreciate the feedback on the other issues as well, but it will take me a while to resolve those. I'm just now learning the importance of POV since I bought Nancy Kress' Characters, Emotion, & Viewpoint (if anyone knows of other good references, please send a list my way).
Next, it's learning to "show vs tell" (Ron Rozelle's Description and Setting) is on the shelf.
Transitioning from "technical" writing to "creative" writing is quite difficult for me.
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As far as the rest goes, if you like to post it F & F I would be happy to look at it.
F & F?
Edited to say: Duh! Fragments and Feedback... This part is actually in the middle of the story. The First 13 need considerable work.
Further edited to say: I just remembered that I posted them a while back... haven't don't much else with the First 13.
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum11/HTML/002788.html
[This message has been edited by KPKilburn (edited December 07, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by KPKilburn (edited December 07, 2008).]
quote:
No matter what person you use, you have the narration and all characters (plus signs, radio commentary and suchlike props) to input this stuff and a good writer uses them in a way that's not jarring."Jarringness" is not a feature of POV, it's a feature of how well one writes.
Wow, my style of writing much have really gotten under your skin, huh? Perhaps I can send you some of my technical documents for critique. You'd love those. :-)
[This message has been edited by KPKilburn (edited December 07, 2008).]