Hatrack River Writers Workshop: An editor re-wrote me!

This is topic An editor re-wrote me! in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Gardener (Member # 7948) on :

I submitted a flash to an online magazine (is it ok to name it?) and was accepted. BUT... I just saw the edited version and it's horrible. And my sister-the-English-teacher agrees. Yikes. Misplaced modifiers, run-on sentences, comma splice... She changed words and added words. Is this normal?

She said my prose was choppy. Ok. Something to work on. But is it reasonable for her REWRITE the whole piece? (At 660 words, no less)

I don't like the edited version. I think it is inferior to my original. It will be posted June 1st and I am now hesitant to have my name on it.

Please don't think I am ranting against criticism. When she asked if I was ok with her editing it, I said YES. I'm glad for feedback. I just don't think she did a very good job. Ugh.

So far, in stories I've submitted it's yes or no, simple. Never run across this before.

Any advice? Comments?

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Sounds very odd. Almost like their editor wants to be a writer, but can't come up with ideas so she has taken your idea and written it herself. If you are not happy I would ask her to not run the re-editted version, not sure about all the legal issues, but it has to still be your work. Of course you have to weigh up what is worse: having it published under your name, or annoying the editor.

Good luck,

Grant John

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Gardener, I think you should withdraw it.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Just to add more information:

I had a short story that I'd submitted to an anthology a friend was editing. She wanted me to have the protagonist do some things that I felt were totally out of character, and it became what is known as a "deal-breaker" (meaning I had to withdraw the story because I wasn't willing to go along with the changes she wanted).

I later sold the story to Kathy Ice who edited two Magic:The Gathering anthologies, TAPESTRIES and DISTANT PLANES, and the changes she asked for were much more in keeping with my perception of the story. It was published, with her suggested changes (which I, not the editor, made) as "A Monstrous Duty" in MAGIC:THE GATHERING, DISTANT PLANES.

Don't let an editor do things that are not true to your story, unless they pay you enough money for it that you can shrug your shoulders and smile all the way to the bank (as in when you sell the movie rights).

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

Yeah, pull it. Its not a credit you can use if it is no credit to your good name. I presume we aren't talking about pro-rates or SFWA level publishing.

Tell them you are withdrawing and send back the money.

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

Yes. That is most definitely bullcrap. If it were me, I would withdraw the story and tell off the editor...but sometimes I don't act very wisely.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

You are the author. It's your choice as to whether you want the story to go the way it was edited/rewritten to be. If it doesn't suit you or reflect your writing style, withdraw it. It's not likely to cause a crisis, most magazines have a slush pile a mile deep. But that's not your problem anyway. You're the author and if you don't like the changes made, then take it back.

Posted by IcedFalcon (Member # 7956) on :

Last year I did several articles for a site who posted the edited version without my contracted review. The changes were so bad I could hardly tell it was my work.
I didnt accept payment and had to go so far as to send a C&D. Your work reflects on you. Its up to you as to the ammount of distortion you will accept.

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

DO IT! Ok, I'm just joking, but it seemed this was getting far too one sided.

Speaking honestly, as a realist not an overly altruistic idealist, money is nice to have, especially when you don't have much. A published story is also nice to have.

Now back to my overly altruistic idealistic side. I'm with all of them. You be you.

Posted by nitewriter (Member # 3214) on :

I've never run into that situation. Sometimes an editor will suggest changes to me - tell me what he wants or doesn't want - and then leaves it to me to accept or reject the suggestions. If I accept, I do tne rewrite - and from their he can accept or reject. But an editor that mutilates your work? I would withdraw the piece and that would be the last time I would work with such an editor.

[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited May 27, 2008).]

Posted by Merlion-Emrys (Member # 7912) on :

quote:
Don't let an editor do things that are not true to your story, unless they pay you enough money for it that you can shrug your shoulders and smile all the way to the bank (as in when you sell the movie rights).

I wouldnt be especially inclined to do it then either.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

quote:
I wouldnt be especially inclined to do it then either.

Well, that's what happens to stories when they make movies out of them. You either don't sell the movie rights, or you sell them and let it go. It isn't just the money you get for the movie rights, though. Having a movie made of your story can help sell copies of the story to people who want to read the Real Version. <shrug>

Gardener's editor, however, does not sound professional, and I really doubt that the sale could be worth the heartache.

Only let an editor change your work contingent upon your approval, and make sure that is clearly stated in every contract.

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

If someone offered me big bucks for a story to turn into a movie and my space opera became Driving Miss Daisy, I would still take the money!

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Ursula Le Guin let someone make a telemovie of her Earthsea Quartet and she was very unimpressed with what she got, as would I have been. If someone did that to me I would be horrified, George R. R. Martin (here I go again) refused to let people make a movie of his books BUT now has an agreement for a tv series and has a lot of say over what they do with it, so you can sell movie/tv rights without giving up control of your story, though you might have to be George R. R. Martin to do it.

Grant John

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Withdraw it. You don't like the resulting edit. If you don't want your name on something you don't like, pull it.

On the other hand, you can't be afraid of the blue pencil of an editor (or the electronic-computer equivalent).

(I'm taking it that no money has changed hands here...am I mistaken? Purchase still doesn't convey the right to change one's submission.)

Posted by Gardener (Member # 7948) on :

Thanks for all your support!

My first instinct was to withdraw it. The payment is $5, so no big deal. And it hasn't been paid. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making a major faux pas. It seemed really out of the ordinary. Thanks for letting me know my gut was right.

Whew!

Robert Nowall, you're right. I might flinch at an editor's suggestions, but I welcome them. Corrections, omissions, recommendations - fine.

I went back and compared my story to her version, line by line, and she literally altered or reworded EVERY sentence! That's a little over the top in my mind. (If it needed that much work, don't you think it should have been rejected?)

I emailed her to withdraw it. I'll let you know what she says.

[This message has been edited by Gardener (edited May 27, 2008).]

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Back in the olden days, they say the editing of Horace Gold of Galaxy, on the manuscript and off it, got so bad that nearly all the big and not-so-big names in science fiction wouldn't submit anything to him anymore.

Over the years, I've read, oh, I guess three stories in both writer's versions and Gold versions---and not one of them improved in the editing.

It's one thing to rewrite to an editor's instructions---one does the rewriting, one agrees with the changes or one doesn't make them. Unless the money really makes it worthwhile, it'd be better for one's peace of mind to not put oneself through it.

Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :

Yeesh.

I don't want to pretend that I have a lot of experience here, but when I created the contract for Flash Fiction Online, I took a lot of the language directly from the SFWA sample contract. You can get a copy of our contract at the bottom of this page. Here's the pertinent section:

quote:
Changes in Text or Title.
7. The Publisher will make no major alterations to the Work’s text or title without the Author’s written approval. The Publisher reserves the right to make minor copy-editing changes to conform the style of the text to its customary form and usage. To ensure that no such changes are made without the Author’s approval, the Publisher will furnish the Author with electronic proofs or word processing files of the Work in advance of publication. Author agrees to return such proofs with corrections in not more than ten (10) days from receipt thereof.

This originally said thirty days rather than ten, but thirty seemed excessive for a thousand-word story. I don't think I modified it in any other way. Although the SFWA contract is, naturally, nice to authors, it's not unreasonable. You have a lot of control, and shouldn't put up with anyone presumptively overriding it.

Don't let anyone bulldoze you with "Copy-editing changes", either. Those should be limited to "customary form and usage": things like the use of the serial comma, single quotes (English style) vs. double quotes (American style), punctuation taken from outside a final quotation mark to inside it, "colour" to "color", etc.

And even those should be (and can be, based on my contract wording) overridden by the author. Imagine someone trying to "put right" Joyce Carol Oates's prose (sample here), putting in the commas she leaves out and breaking her comma splices into full sentences. She'd rightfully have a cow.

I very closely edit the stories we publish, sometimes working over a story more extensively than I expected when I first selected it. During my first reading, I'm really hoping that this story is going to blow me away, so I'm pretty forgiving; as I get closer to publication, I nitpick the hell out of them. That's okay, I think. We've only published one story that needed no nitpicking. Lots of little suggestions don't necessarily indicate a problem.

The issue, for me, is attitude: are they suggestions, or not? The more I do this (we're about to turn seven months old), the more I think that a good editor needs some amount of hubris. Too little and you let through stuff that could clearly be better. I personally have sufficient hubris to think that my changes are good. (To be fair to myself, I have some outside validation, such as feedback from a few well - known authors. It's stuff like that that gives you the hubris in the first place.) But you're the author. If the editor wants to work with you, making suggestions and requesting changes, great: your story might improve considerably in the process. If the editor wants a different story from the one you wrote, or from one that you want your name attached to, let her select it from the slush pile.

That was way too many words. Sorry about that. I guess my dander's up. But so is my time...

Regards,
Oliver

[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited May 27, 2008).]

Posted by Gardener (Member # 7948) on :

Here's the end of the saga. She honored my request to withdraw and sent a bit of a smiling, polite poke.

"Alice,

Sorry to hear it. I hope you'll consider submitting in the future. Meanwhile, best of luck placing your story elsewhere.

If line edit corrections are an issue for you, may I recommend careful proofreading before submitting to publishers. You won't have to suffer as many corrections, and editors appreciate not having to spend their valuable time doing so.

Kind regards,
L--- L----"

Makes me look rather the amateur. But I do feel a lot better.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Oh, come on. If it needed a line edit in every sentence, why did she buy it?

Editors don't change your copy without your permission. End of story. And you have every right to say no.

Posted by Tiergan (Member # 7852) on :

Gardner you did the right thing.

Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :

Yeah, you may have irritated her, but you probably did the right thing. Changing sentences from short and choppy to long and smooth (or from short and grammatically correct to long and run-on) doesn't come from proofreading, as if short sentences are errors: it comes from a discussion between the author and editor about style. Different things entirely.

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

I don't think her "poke" was smiling and polite...I think it was snotty. Forget her and don't send anything to her again, that's what I say.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Well, five dollars for 660 words comes out to be barely over 3/4 cent per word. That's small press territory, Gardener, and the editor's behavior shows that very small press is where she's going to stay.

There are other flash fiction markets out there.

Posted by Doctor (Member # 7736) on :

I would take their acceptance of your story as a compliment, and proceed to withdraw the entry--since, clearly, you are above that deal.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

You could send a nasty note about editors who change every sentence---but it would just get messier from there.

Probably the best solution is to file it and forget it---and forget the market, too. Don't bother submitting anything to them again. What Kathleen said.

(I don't think I'd take that sort of editing for what Analog and Asimov's pay, but I've grown a number of pecularities-of-thought-about-my-work over the years, which I've outlined at length in other posts. Besides, I doubt they would do it that way.)