How about y'all?
Good luck!
Jayson Merryfield
In the meantime, here is a list of topics in which OSC's Literary Boot Camp and its benefits are discussed.
I've been planning it for a year (because I heard it bounced alternately from coast to coast), and was very disheartened to discover it was in San Diego.
Sooner or later, I may go. I do know three others that have gone in the past and have said that OSC is a great teacher, and they learned a lot. I met them at Dave Farland's Novel Writing Workshop.
Not a personal endorsement, but I think it'd be well worth the money. At least these three people thought it was worth it.
http://www.jamieford.com/bittersweet-blog/2006/6/12/uncle-orsons-literary-boot-campsunday.html
I can't recommend it enough.
Doctor, I don't really get the self-important part of your post. Do you mean is it self-important on OSC's part to invite other authors to learn from him? Maybe. But if you think he has something to teach, sure it's worthwhile. If you don't care for his work and don't think he has much to teach (or that you learned it all from his writing books) then this wouldn't be the workshop for you.
Or are you saying it's self-important of the writers to go to a weeklong workshop to hone their craft? If so, I don't agree. I am one of many here who does not have a background in writing. I don't have a degree in journalism or creative writing or any of that sort of thing, so everything I know about writing I've either learned from high school composition classes, or I've self-taught in the last 18 months since I started writing as a serious hobby. A formal workshop where I can learn more would be a godsend. Sadly for me, I can't spare a week nor the cost at this point in my life. Maybe in the next couple years. Hopefully by then I'll have outgrown the need.
-secretly glad that less Hatrackers=less competition-
I've heard nothing but good reviews of the workshop, so I'd be eager to attend.
We'll just agree to disagree then. I haven't ever attended anything with OSC, but I would welcome the opportunity. I'm a lifelong learner. I think everyone out there has something to teach me, even if it's just some arcane rules about Chess that I am not familiar with.
Would you feel differently if it were a different author/group of authors? I hear Neil Gaiman is doing one of the Clarion's this year (I'm too lazy to look it up, LOL) and I understand people are flocking to apply.
Have you ever been insulting someone behind their back and your listener gets this look on their face and you suddenly realize he’s standing right behind you? That can really happen when you ridicule your host whilst sipping his champagne.
So you find his work bizarre and distasteful, well that’s nice… and what a perfect place to bring up the fact that you proudly sport an opinion that pretty much flies in the face of the entire Sci-Fi community. I for one have a whole new regard for this student from Beverly Hills who has the courage (is that the word I’m looking for?) to insult OSC on his own, free, writing workshop; a one in a million place where you can freely mingle with successful, published, writers and receive some of the best advice that money can’t buy.
Success, age, and generosity buy you two things: respect and freedom of speech in your arena of success. Is that really regarding yourself as unreasonably self-important? Would you rather see yet another reclusive, suicidal artist whose only message seems to be, that the more brilliant you are, the more annoying other lesser beings and ultimately, living itself becomes.
Well, you’re a self-proclaimed doctor; you should know how to surgically remove your own foot from your mouth.
You’ll have to excuse me; I have a tendency to meet rudeness with greater rudeness.
For your information, the boot camp has a legacy of breeding successful, PUBLISHABLE writers. Point in case. Our own Eric James Stone attended the Boot camp and was subsequently published in the Writers of the Future anthology – TWICE. That’s one example of dozens.
Tracy
Note: When I use the word breeding, I'm not referring to what some of you were doing in the hotel rooms in the evenings.
[This message has been edited by tnwilz (edited May 12, 2008).]
Actually, at the beginning of the week Scott states that style is personal and that he'll be focusing solely on craft.
Another aspect of Bootcamp is just fellowshipping with other writers. I met some amazing people and two years later we're still swapping stories and offering critiques.
Given that you're getting a good semester or two worth of (presumably better than college level) writing lessons crammed into a week, I'd say that it's well worth the expense. And he has to sacrifice, too. Schlepping 3000 miles from his home and family, paying for a hotel room, then flying back, all the while taking away from time that could be spent on Alvin Maker VII or something. Not to mention reading through a bunch of submissions, putting together his lessons, yada yada. Being a teacher is a lot more than standing up in front of a class and talking, you know.
I think the ability to write is rare, to write and get published even more rare; all that and the ability to develop aspiring authors, very rare indeed.
I learned much from Characters and Viewpoints--it's one of the few books on writing that actually helped me get off my ass and start writing after decades of promising myself that one day, I would.
I would not expect OSC to even attempt to teach his style of writing. He's quite a bit brighter than that. I'd expect his workshops to help me develop my style of writing and improve it technically, and I see no reason to believe he'd do otherwise.
When are y'all bringing the workshops to Olde Englande? There's a big ole pond and a long, long drive between me and San Diego.
Cheers,
Pat
Not only his manners, but also his actions show the type of person he is. Ender's Game is my favorite book, and the idea that the man who wrote that would teach me! It blows my mind...
Now if I could only get Thoreau back...We would build a cabin together.
On a side note, it is kind of cool to know that someone on this website doesn't really care for OSC's writing. Another testament to OSC's character and class. No petty stuff for him.
(If doctor mysteriously dissapears in a few days/weeks/month....I didn't do it! I swear!)
Much Love,
Justin Armstrong
quote:
Would you feel differently if it were a different author/group of authors? I hear Neil Gaiman is doing one of the Clarion's this year (I'm too lazy to look it up, LOL) and I understand people are flocking to apply.
quote:
Doctor, doctor… your bedside manner is atrocious – even for Beverly Hills.
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So you find his work bizarre and distasteful, well that’s nice…
quote:
and what a perfect place to bring up the fact that you proudly sport an opinion that pretty much flies in the face of the entire Sci-Fi community.
quote:
I for one have a whole new regard for this student from Beverly Hills who has the courage (is that the word I’m looking for?)
quote:
to insult OSC on his own, free, writing workshop; a one in a million place where you can freely mingle with successful, published, writers and receive some of the best advice that money can’t buy.
quote:
Success, age, and generosity buy you two things: respect and freedom of speech in your arena of success. Is that really regarding yourself as unreasonably self-important?
quote:
Well, you’re a self-proclaimed doctor; you should know how to surgically remove your own foot from your mouth.
quote:
You’ll have to excuse me; I have a tendency to meet rudeness with greater rudeness.
quote:
Actually, at the beginning of the week Scott states that style is personal and that he'll be focusing solely on craft.
quote:
Another aspect of Bootcamp is just fellowshipping with other writers. I met some amazing people and two years later we're still swapping stories and offering critiques.
quote:
And he has to sacrifice, too. Schlepping 3000 miles from his home and family, paying for a hotel room, then flying back, all the while taking away from time that could be spent on Alvin Maker VII or something.
But going on vacation to a beautiful city, earning a bunch of cash, and spending time with other artists who share your trade, and who worship the very ground you walk on - that isn't any kind of sacrifice in my book. He may work hard there, maybe, but I would guess he enjoys the experience and looks forward to it. And he's well-compensated for his time. That's probably why he does it. Which doesn't really qualify as a meaningful sacrifice to me. I don't see this bootcamp as philanthropic at all, sorry. With respect, I'm not going to buy that particular item.
quote:
I agree that it's not right to attack OSC's sincerity and teaching ability in the forum he hosts for free. Indeed, the existence of this forum and its high quality and value is testament itself to OSC's commitment to developing authors.
But that aside, I think you overestimate his "generosity" in providing this forum. It's not like he personally coded this site by hand, frequents it regularly to provide meaningful assistance, and pays hundreds of dollars a day to keep it in business. This site was slapped together by a web designer, this forum was attached for free (it's UBB for crying out lout) and the bandwidth cost (for just this forum) is less than $10 a month. Hardly a sacrifice.
Though I do appreciate the usefulness of this forum, don't get me wrong. But all of the meaningful content comes from the users, such as yourself. Card just happens to host the site, but truthfully it could be done anywhere.
quote:
I would not expect OSC to even attempt to teach his style of writing. He's quite a bit brighter than that. I'd expect his workshops to help me develop my style of writing and improve it technically, and I see no reason to believe he'd do otherwise.
quote:
Not only his manners, but also his actions show the type of person he is. Ender's Game is my favorite book, and the idea that the man who wrote that would teach me! It blows my mind...
quote:
Now if I could only get Thoreau back...We would build a cabin together.
quote:
On a side note, it is kind of cool to know that someone on this website doesn't really care for OSC's writing. Another testament to OSC's character and class. No petty stuff for him.
Part of the appeal of this particular community is the sense that it isn't just another batch of fanboys and wannabes, the people here are full-fledged opinionated individuals and writers to boot! Or so I thought.
Also, I'm not sure how my existence is at all attributed to his sense of class. OSC isn't here. I hate to break it to you, but he's not a member of this community who somehow finds it within himself to tolerate my presence. I come here by choice and my opinions are my own, and OSC and his "class" have nothing to do with them. Especially since he's never read/heard them in his life. And I am not directly criticizing him to his face.
quote:
(If doctor mysteriously dissapears in a few days/weeks/month....I didn't do it! I swear!)
Doctor
[This message has been edited by Doctor (edited May 13, 2008).]
I will say Doctor, that I didn’t find most of what you said offensive. I did find this passage as rude though.
quote:
He may work hard there, maybe, but I would guess he enjoys the experience and looks forward to it.
The need of placing “maybe” only shows your cynical feelings towards OSC and I am assuming towards any author whom does a workshop, and gets paid for it.
I personally feel any author who gives his/her time for one of these workshops is doing just that. In fact, I often wonder why they do, as I don’t believe the money offered would be worth the hassle to any known author. I live in New Hampshire and have looked into the Odyssey workshop and saw the authors who have contributed there, George R. R. Martin, and Terry Brooks, just to name 2 that I know, household names, who have made their share of money. Why I am sure they get paid, I don’t believe it so significant that they doing just for the money.
I am guessing the last bit of your quote above has if right. He and the others who do it, does enjoy the experience and lookes forward to it. I am assuming they enjoy teaching others their craft.
As far as whether or not the price is worth it. Only those who have gone can tell you that. But I would assume it is, as it has been going on for years and the graduates speak volumes of what they have learned.
quote:
The need of placing “maybe” only shows your cynical feelings towards OSC and I am assuming towards any author whom does a workshop, and gets paid for it.
The maybe is meant to indicate possibility, not suggest a bias one way or the other.
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The fact of the matter is that I don't know how the workshop is structured.
An indisputable fact. So, the rest of your considerable verbiage is biased conjecture--what we call talking out your @$$ around these parts. Did you even follow Jamie's link? There was another link to an interview with OSC (which I haven't finished listening to, but have every intention of) that says he'd advise against the "write what you know" advice, and advise to "know what you write" instead. It seems, however inadvertantly, you have not only proven his point for him, but also that his advice has merit.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited May 13, 2008).]
In response to what seemed the two points of debate in my post, I would like to clarify. The first, about his actions showing the type of person he is and so on, it wasn't directed towards this forum. He lives a life of a writer, but also helps others (or so it seems). I hadn't meant for this to be looked at so closely, so I didn't bother giving the support, and I am sorry. That was my fault. I was more expressing how I believed him to be a good person, beyond being a good writer. Also, as the teaching me goes, (even though I do have to qualify and PAY) I still thank him for that. Meeting and learning from someone who you personally idolize (I don't mean golden calf style) is a rare experience in life.
I live in Wisconsin and when I was about 9 years old I went to a Green Bay Packers football camp. I had been playing football for several years already, and went on to play many more, but the camp for me was one of the best parts. It was the Dorsey Leven's football camp. I got to play flag football WITH him, talk about the game, and goof around in the greenbay stadium. It was an amazing experience. I relate that to the bookcamp and would hope it is all that and more.
The second point, that of you not caring much for OSC, I was actually stating more of what you argued back to me. It's good to know we all aren't groupies here. Its refreshing to know that I didn't join a forum of people who read one author over and over again and do nothing but try and write like he does. It was more of a compliment (although mine always seem to need explaining :P)
Either way, no matter what any of us are argueing, I think we can all agree that Hatrack is a one in million forum, and I am personally very thankful for that. (Where is the turkey dinner I was promised when I bring people together in thanks!?)
Cheers to KDW!
[This message has been edited by JustInProse (edited May 13, 2008).]
quote:
...the rest of your considerable verbiage is biased conjecture--what we call talking out your @$$ around these parts.
It is sometimes said that someone who reacts the way you just did to a simple question is often displaying a sign of insecurity. Since the question wasn't even directly addressed to you, I'm not sure what the big deal is.
quote:
That was my fault. I was more expressing how I believed him to be a good person, beyond being a good writer.
It's the same idea with the San Diego workshop. I'll admit that I was skeptical from the onset, but that isn't the same thing as making the concrete judgement that the workshop is a complete waste. I won't conclude that because I don't have that information. Some of you seem to be inferring that this is my stance, it is not. I was only suggesting the possibility (because from the objective point of view, with so little data both outcomes are possible) and probing what kind of response it would get.
But I'm more interested in the reviews of those who've attended, and not as much in the belligerent attempts at defending Card's pride. (I'm looking at you Babbler.)
quote:
I live in Wisconsin and when I was about 9 years old I went to a Green Bay Packers football camp. I had been playing football for several years already, and went on to play many more, but the camp for me was one of the best parts. It was the Dorsey Leven's football camp. I got to play flag football WITH him, talk about the game, and goof around in the greenbay stadium. It was an amazing experience. I relate that to the bookcamp and would hope it is all that and more.
quote:
Either way, no matter what any of us are argueing, I think we can all agree that Hatrack is a one in million forum, and I am personally very thank for that.
Jayson Merryfield
So I'll restate it in the form of several more specific questions.
To those who have attended this workshop.
1. Was it worth it?
2. Would you do it again?
3. What was best about it?
4. What could have been better?
5. What was the atmosphere like with Card taking the lead? (ex: pleasant, condescending, polite, short...)
6. Did you find moments where you disagreed with Card, or didn't understand him?
And yes Jason, who I publically don't get along with, these questions do pertain to writing.
Perhaps it would be best if we followed Kathleens advice to people here who don't get along and simply ignored each other. If you don't like my posts then ignore them.
[This message has been edited by Doctor (edited May 13, 2008).]
Please find a less inflammatory way of asking your questions. Someone said it's the responsibility of writers to write so as not to be misunderstood. You've started a flame war and derailed the thread.
And, please keep your cynical attitude towards Mr Card, and be polite.
I for one would like for this thread not to be closed as a result of your lack of respect.
There are links above to material on the workshops that you can read, which answer several of your questions--have you done that?
Pat
So, with respect, I don't think your criticism is valid.
Please find a less inflammatory way of asking your questions. As you admit, at last, your questions were poorly worded. Someone said it's the responsibility of writers to write so as not to be misunderstood. By not doing so you've started a flame war and derailed the thread.
Please keep your cynical attitude towards Mr Card to yourself, and be polite.
I for one would like for this thread not to be closed as a result of your lack of respect for OSC and the rest of us.
I do not take kindly to being picked apart in the manner above. I'm here to discuss and learn. I do not want this kind of unpleasantness and Kathleen's moderation makes that minimal, a characteristic of this--OSC's--forum that I value highly.
There are links above to material on the workshops that you can read, that answer several of your questions.
Pat
Sorry for the duplicated post. I'm angry.
[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited May 13, 2008).]
Pat
This got me thinking,
quote:
I for one would like for this thread not to be closed as a result of your lack of respect.
But going over the posts here, and re-reading all of the comments. The only thing that stands out to me isn't, in fact, a "lack of respect," but rather a lack of agreeing with the community's opinion.
I brought into question something that the community here is uncomfortable exploring. Namely: Is this worth it? Or is Card being a bit pompous? All the evidence given seems to indicate that the former is correct and the latter is not. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
But I don't think asking the question is wrong. Unless this is a community where questions must be extinguished.
Pat, you said: "I for one would like for this thread not to be closed..."
And four minutes later you said: "Can we close the thread please?"
Just mildly interesting.
[This message has been edited by Doctor (edited May 13, 2008).]
While I have never been to the bootcamp, I just read JamieFord's blog on it. It sounds great. If you have the time, the money, and drive, go for it. It sounds like OSC goes to the trenches with you. Furthermore, it sounds like they only accept the writers that they feel are truly ready to take it to the next level, taking them from good writers to great writers, and maybe publishable. I admire that. So many places don't limit their fields, and end up taking money from people who are no where near ready.
Good luck on acceptance.
quote:
Pat, you said: "I for one would like for this thread not to be closed..."And four minutes later you said: "Can we close the thread please?"
Just mildly interesting.
This is lack of respect. Please close the thread.
Pat
But that post was after the fact. What did I say that was disrespectful before you said I was being disrespectful?
I actually would like an answer to this please. Because I really can't find anything.
Here is an author, and a proven one, teaching 15 students for something like 4 days in a row. That sounds pretty good. But he's doing it for what... $2000 a day? My question is does he earn it? Is he really that good?
If you say yes (and have attended) I'll believe you. I'm telling you that straight-up, I will believe you. I just want to see someone say it. Someone who's been there.
Then I'll believe it.
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If you say yes (and have attended) I'll believe you. I'm telling you that straight-up, I will believe you. I just want to see someone say it. Someone who's been there.
I gather you didn't see JamieFord's answer.
quote:
I can't recommend it enough.
According to his blog, which I mentioned 2 maybe 3 posts up, he did attend it and would recommend it.
I now consider my question answered. And yes, I did see Jamie's blog. But I still wanted to hear from others, but if nobody else here has gone then there's nothing more I can expect.
There are a bazillion seminars on a bazillion different topics. OSC's fees for boot camp are not out of line, given the big picture. The bottom line is: would you get what you wanted out of the workshop? Whether or not you like the content of OSC's books, he is masterful at his craft - writing easy-flowing dialog, swift moving plot, seamless presentation between character and setting. Not everything is perfect, but he has earned the right to be considered "good enough" to teach. And from what I've heard back from reports of those who have attended boot camp, he is an excellent teacher.
If you really want to know what others think, why don't you do a search on the topic of "Boot Camp" and see for yourself?
quote:
I agree with you that the last message displayed a lack of respect. I apologize. (But I'm still human enough to find it funny)
The parenthetical remark nullifies the apology.
quote:
But that post was after the fact. What did I say that was disrespectful before you said I was being disrespectful?
I actually would like an answer to this please. Because I really can't find anything.
Prevously mentioned parenthetical remark and, for example:
quote:
Well, I am glad nobody was overly offended, but I did
find your responses both interesting and entertaining.
Respect: Due regard for the feelings [..] of others. (OED)
I really have neither the interest or time to debate "respect". I'm just pleased that, mostly, Hatrack expects and gets it. And very annoyed when it's absent.
Pat
????
If there were a way to capitalize a question mark, I would do it.
Because many of the comments, particularly Jamie Ford's were insightful and interesting, and some of the comments were entertaining, particularly JustlnProse's comment about building a cabin with Thoreau, and tnwilz quip about surgically removing my foot from my mouth. Those were funny! Hence entertaining.
What is the problem?
[This message has been edited by Doctor (edited May 13, 2008).]
Please let the thread resume its original topic.
Pat
I really do want to build a cabin with Thoreau 
I wish some of those zombie/undead books would happen...he may not be the same, but Zombie Thoreau is better than Dead Thoreau!
I just billetted a couple of the BYU Young Ambassadors.
Maybe, I could billet a contingent for Bootcamp Australia.
Edit: sp
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited May 13, 2008).]
I know when I make a purchase, I usually go on-line to see some customer reviews, so for those who are thinking about going, here is my customer review of my experience at Boot Camp:
It was worth every penny. I highly recommend it to anyone who is serious about writing – in any genre or style. To answer any questions about how much Scott is personally involved, I have to say that he definitely earns his money there. For the first two days he is in front of the Uncle Orson’s writing class portion lecturing and answering questions. He talked about developing ideas, what makes a compelling story, M.I.C.E. Quotient, POV, etc. The lecture portion is primarily based on materials from his book Characters and Viewpoint, but not all of it. I had read the book multiple times before I went to the class, but hearing him explain the concepts in more detail and seeing how he applied it in the exercises we did was extremely valuable. He even stayed after on the second day of the lecture to do an informal Q&A with anyone who wanted to stay there, for as long as they wanted to keep talking. He was there until past 11:00 that night.
In the workshop portion, we all had to write a story and turn it in for critique. Scott was completely involved in the entire critiquing process, acting as a facilitator for when the Boot Campers were critiquing, and then offering his own opinions and insights into the stories as well. Simply listening to his critiques and hearing how he analyzes and picks apart a story to find its flaws and strengths was absolutely amazing. Most of us could help point out places where something in the story didn’t work, but Scott was able to articulate not only what didn’t work, but WHY it didn’t work. Not only that, but he generally suggested several possibilities for fixing the story.
In our class we had wildly different styles and genres represented. Scott really focused on the universal aspects of what makes for a compelling story and engaging characters in his critiques. Each time he found something that either worked very well or didn’t work in the story, he would use that time to teach us the concept behind the issue and how it applied more broadly. The result was a class that was completely tailored to our needs as writers.
Scott really doesn’t do this for the money. He has to rent out the venue, pay for his own travel expenses, he bought ENORMOUS quantities of very expensive snacks, and took all of us out to dinner, twice. By the time you add up his costs for this, he makes some money, but it is not a get-rich business model. I’m sure he could make a lot more using that time for writing other books. When I was an external training consultant, I charged $2500/day plus expenses to do stand up training and facilitation, and I am fairly young and cheap. $3000-$5000 a day plus travel and expenses is not uncommon in the business world, so the idea of someone with his knowledge, skills, and experiences making $2000 a day AND paying for all his expenses, seems under priced to me. (Not that I am encouraging him to raise his rates )
Honestly, Scott does this because he loves to teach. He loves helping new writers learn and to share the craft of writing with others. You can see that when he lectures, and you really get to see it during the critiquing portion of the Boot Camp.
So, for what it’s worth, that’s my customer evaluation of the Boot Camp experience.
WobblyG
Talespinner, you confuse me.
Doctor:
Some accounts
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000609.html
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001820.html
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000946.html
http://megstout.com/articles/Sweat.htm
There's probabpy a ton more but I'm not going to do your homework for you.
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited May 13, 2008).]
quote:
I'm not going to do your homework for you.
quote:
Wondering if I should prepare for a flame war over this.
In the meantime, here is a list of topics in which OSC's Literary Boot Camp and its benefits are discussed.
I knew that you had a crystal ball, KDW
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Point being that writing (in my opinion) is somewhat like painting, on the advanced level he can only teach you his style, because it's the only one he knows. Just like Van Gogh can't to Picasso, or Andy Warhol, and Polluck can only splash paint on canvas.
A very quick glance in How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy & Characters and Viewpoint will reveal many instances where he cites the styles and technique of other authors. Here he teaches craft. One cannot be an artist if one does not know the craft.
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Are you suggesting that the entire sci-fi community rallies around OSC's work like it's old glory?
Perhaps I am speculating, but i think she was suggesting that OSC is a widely respected member of the SF (well even wider than the SF) writing community.
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IB, you seem to have inarticulately babbled your way into a confrontation you were better off avoiding.
I am sure most of the members of this forum do not appreciate your admitted confrontationalism.
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But I'm more interested in the reviews of those who've attended, and not as much in the belligerent attempts at defending Card's pride
If this were the case you might have looked at the link that Jamie Ford provided in an attempt to be helpful. The blog has a daily diary of his experience at the workshop.
quote:
This isn't venom. This isn't anti-card propoganda or hatemongering.
No, this isn't accute enough to be venom, well-thought enough to be propaganda, nor taken seriously enough to be hatemongering. Perhaps a more adequate description would be rabble-rousing.
I for one, would attend if I could afford it or if it were somewhere closer to home. This is based soley on the fact that I have found his books on writing beneficial, and I have heard positive feedback not only on the bootcamp, but the shorter workshops he offers. I also am the type of person that is humble enough to find lessons, even in everyday life, so being immersed in an environment with other dedicated writers and an award-winning, highly published author would no doubt be a learning experience.
But to answer the doctors question. Is it worth it? I will go out on a limb and say absolutely not. If you already feel your artistic abilities surpass the Instructor, then there is not much to gain from the experience, even if it were free.
[This message has been edited by Bent Tree to correct his inferior coding (edited May 13, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by Bent Tree (edited May 13, 2008).]
But, (second), I do feel a need to explain why I wasn't here to head this off. My daughter, whose first baby only lived for ten hours, went to see the doctor on Monday because she was concerned about her baby (her fourth pregnancy--the two in between are doing fine, by the way), and was told that she was right to be concerned and was put in the hospital immediately (this is passive voice, also by the way). I was watching her two kids while she went and ended up having them sleep here over night (without diapers for the one, pajamas for either, or toothbrushes, or their favorite stuffed toys to sleep with). Her baby boy was born just before midnight on Monday night, but he was only five pounds 13 ounces, and they are monitoring him closely.
On that note, I refer you back to my "single" link even though I clearly stated that it was a LIST of topics discussing OSC's Boot Camp, and I close (this topic) with a final referral to Bent Tree's last word in the previous post.
quote:
I profusely apologize. My e-mail to you, and my final post, were both the result of a hot flash of anger. I wasn't thinking clearly, and I said things I didn't mean. I never meant to disrupt the hatrack community, and I for months have enjoyed my stay there. As you can tell by reading the majority of my posts. There has been a recent tragedy in my personal life, the details of which I don't think are appropriate to talk about. But these circumstances have been affecting my judgement, yesterday was especially hard. And I admit to abusing hatrack by letting it become an outlet, while in truth I was only thinking about the very distressing situation here. Hopefully I am a bit better composed today.
Sorry for everything.
Sincerely,
Doctor
I accept, Doctor, and I am leaving this topic open so that any others who wish to apologize for contributing to this unhappy situation may do so as well.
Otherwise, since the original purpose of this topic has been opened in another topic, and since the deadline for applying to attend this year has passed, any posts other than apologies will be deleted.
I also wish to convey my sincere best wishes to Doctor. I hope whatever negative circumstances that you face are resolved in the best way possible.
Todd
Card is one of those people who chooses to make himself controversial. It's no secret that he uses other portions of this website to espouse his politics which is always an invitation to controversy. However, that doesn't mean that he isn't a great teacher. He is one of the pre-eminent writing teachers in the country in my opinion.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited May 26, 2008).]
JeanneT, my daughter and grandson are doing very well, and I appreciate the good wishes and prayers and other expressions of concern offered to me and them here and in email.
EP Kaplan, you couldn't have known, when you opened the can, that people were going to find (or put) worms in it. It was a perfectly fine can when you opened it.