Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Antiquity of words

This is topic Antiquity of words in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Tiergan (Member # 7852) on :

Every time a write a fantasy novel I get hung up on these 2 areas in general.

children or kids? Sometimes children seems so formal, and kids too modern for me.

What does a child sya 10 yrs old, call her parents, does she/he call out "Mother, Father, Ma, Pa, Mom, Dad." Mother, Father seems again so formal to me, and Ma, Pa I cant help but think of half-pint in Little House on the Prairie.

Any opinions?

edited: to add the first line to clarify the question.

[This message has been edited by Tiergan (edited April 10, 2008).]

Posted by mommiller (Member # 3285) on :

My kids call me Ma, or Mom, their father, Dad.

Occasionally I hear them and friends say Mother or Father when they are talking about their parents, such as in needing to ask their permission before doing something, but when in their parents presence use Mom and Dad.

Mommy and Daddy seems to fade by about the second grade.

I wonder what region has to play in all this, if at all?

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

"Mom" and "Dad" seem from age ten on indefinitely. "Ma" and "Pa" seem acceptable, but more, er, "'Beverly Hillbillies' rural," I guess.

Perhaps you should take note that children, age ten to infinity, will sometimes refer to their parents by their first names when said parents are not physically present...

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

This is an opportunity for characterization, in my opinion. How you choose what your young MCs call their parents says a lot about who they are.

A young child that says "mother" and "father" might be precocious, for instance, or raised in a distant, formal environment.

Personally, I called my parents "Mama" and "Papa" for years, if not in person (I was a little embarrassed to do so by my teens, though I still did in tender moments) at least in my head. I still think of them that way though they've both passed on.

And yes, Ma and Pa has a pretty rural hint to it.

Kids is definitely modern. "Children" isn't formal to me, but that's just me, maybe. There are other terms. "Little ones" comes to mind. It could also be "spawn", "offspring", "scions", etc. Again, all of it depends on who's speaking and what the context and setting are.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited April 10, 2008).]

Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :

antiquity of words -- I thought you were going to talk about how deep some roots go. The one I always liked was thallocracy (can't recall the exact spelling and it isn't in my dictionary. It comes to us from the Greek where, according to this authority from long ago, the "thall" part came to the Greeks from the Minoans.

I love hearing about the ancient roots of our words.

Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :

I too logged on thinking we would discuss etymology.
My favorite word from the mythology of Greece is "Sphincter". The root is sphinx, which (who?) in the story of Oedipus is a gate keeper.--Isaac Asimov wrote a book called 'words from the Myths' or something like that. cool book get it

On the real subject: My kids, both under 8, call me daddy and my wife mommy. My three year old calls me father in a snooty accent when she is being funny and has taken to calling her mother momma. We don't know where she got that.
I can remember the summer (my ninth) that my sister and I experimented with calling my father Dad instead of Daddy.

Ma and Pa have Little House written all over them. If that is an era you are emulating then use them.

Children predates Kids by about 200 years having come into English before 950 ce. compared to 1150-1200 ce. for kids.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

Papa (French) is circa 1681. The greek root is Pappa. Dad/Daddy is circa 1500. (Tad (Welsh), Tata (Latin and Czech), Daid (Irish), Tete (Greek) and Tatah all have the same meaning.) Da and Sire are safe bets, too.

Mamma (Persian, and Latin for "breast") is circa 1579 (Ma, the root is a universal root of unknown origin). (Mama (Russian), Muhme--meaning "mother's sister"-- (German), Mamen (French), Mam (Welsh)) Mum (British) circa 1823, Mummy 1839, Momma 1884, Mom 1894, and Mommy 1902.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

IB, I don't know if your dating came from the OED or where since you don't say, but I seriously doubt some of your dates. I would bet a good deal that Mamma was used well before 1579 since the word "ma" in some permutation is almost universal among Indo-European languages for mother.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited April 10, 2008).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

JeanneT, I'm using an etyomology search engine. Wether or not you believe that the word "Mamma" was used before 1579 or not, is irrelevant for, depending on the setting, it could prove an appropriate term on that date alone.

So, no, my dating did not come from OCD. ( )

*And I know you mean the Old English Dictionary.*

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Your OCD must have gone into remission since I meant the Oxford English Dictionary.