Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Writing a romance

This is topic Writing a romance in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

My plot calls for a (gasp) romance. This character is one of my ensemble main characters and falls rather madly in love with a woman who should, of course, be totally unavailable except she is in love with him too. Or appears to be. It isn't clear how deep her affection for him is. But is (or soon will be) really in love with her. So I wrote the scene where he sees her and is immediately attracted to her. It's so important that I, against my usual policy, even had some people read it. It seems to work.

But now I have to write "mushy stuff." I NEVER write mushy stuff--I am THE anti-mushy stuff. I'm not sure I CAN write romantic scenes. I have been procrastinating writing this for days.

Ack.

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

What's an "ensemble main character"?

As for mushy stuff... I, too, hate mushy stuff and avoid it at all cost. I think you can write a romantic scene without it.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

I'd recommend that you try just describing what they do and say(as if you were letting your readers watch a scene in a movie) and let the readers put the emotion into it.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Thanks, Kathleen. I'll give it a try. Maybe if I don't put in any mushy stuff it won't be so bad. I usually write in very close 3rd. Maybe if I make it not quite so close 3rd for those scenes I'll be more comfortable with them. *shudders*

Annepin, I'm glad I'm not the only woman who feels that way. People are always going on about how much women like romances and I just look blank.

The ensemble thing, this novel has several main characters, not just one. An ensemble is the description I've seen put to that and seems to be as good as any. There are three main characters who will probably end up more or less equal PoV characters. That's the plan anyway as much as I plan my novels--which isn't much. The characters are rarely in the same place at the same time.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited March 26, 2008).]

Posted by SchamMan89 (Member # 5562) on :

Depending on what kind of a book it is, readers probably don't want mushy stuff either. Look at Star Wars: people loved Han Solo and Leia's relationship because it was obvious, but also on the run-- there weren't entire scenes dedicated to it. However, the prequels dedicated lots of time to Anikan and Amidala's love sequences. Lo and behold, I'd say the vast majority of people who watched all of the Star Wars movies enjoyed watching Solo and Leia's relationship more than Anikan and Amidala's. If you don't want to write mushy stuff, its probably a good thing that you don't.

Just my two cents
~Chris

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

This can't be an "on the run" romance, unfortunately. I've done that kind before and am quite comfortable with it. Lovers who never see each other are easy. LOL

These have to like (ewwww) kiss and stuff. Fortunately not very long before disaster strikes though. *wipes brow*

Posted by Rhaythe (Member # 7857) on :

My recommendation would be to heavily hint at the possibility, and then do nothing. Tease the reader for as long as possible, but never give them an actual hook to bite down on. Think about your first crushes... you would eyeball them, try to make eye contact, only to look away quickly at the first hint of a connection. Then you would avoid them during the day for fear that they would confront you. Then... *sniff*... you'd cry to... to sleep and... and... excuse me for a second...

In seriousness, I think the subtleness of romance is lost nowadays. It seems like nearly every book has some sort of love triangle that the reader KNOWS will end up with the two main characters shacking together. Give the reader reason to doubt this, or to not even realize it's happening unless they analyze the details. Just a thought.

Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

The other option is to identify a meaningful point of intimacy that isn't physical, but that is representative of a character change that allows the reader to understand that one of them has willingly bent themselves to accomodate some hope or expectation of the other. Any old married (or not-so-old, but married for a while) couple will tell you that sex is great, but that the REAL aspects of romantic intimacy have little to do with the body and much more to do with the mind. Sounds cliche, I know, but if it's done well, I think it's better at demonstrating the actual foundation of a romance than just having to work with a physical... "consumation" of a romance.

Just an idea...

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

The thing is that what I would consider true intimacy never develops. Have you ever met someone and you have this immediate chemistry thing? And you know it's a reeeallly bad idea.

But you do it anyway--because at that point maybe you're not quite sane.

Posted by Rhaythe (Member # 7857) on :

quote:
Have you ever met someone and you have this immediate chemistry thing?

Not for me personally, though I've been able to see it in other people. My best friend and his fiancée were predicted after they first met, and everyone BUT them knew it. Might be another avenue to chase in a romance work, though I suppose it's kind of cliché as well.

Posted by sholar (Member # 3280) on :

I am a female and not a big fan of romance either. I would suggest innuendo, rather then outright saying anything. Right now, i am struggling with a scene for the opposite problem- I want a scene to be extremely platonic but I keep feeling like the reader is going to add romance. I have two characters who view each other as brother and sister, but the man's wife believes that they are having an affair. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the reader thinks the wife is right.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I think this is one of those times when feedback will be invaluable. Two years ago I exchanged novels with someone who had a romance thread in there. I'll just be honest -- it wasn't pretty. We ended up having a fairly open critiquing style with one another, which worked out great, because a couple of times I remember writing in-line comments along the liens of, "No, it didn't happen that way. Take it back! :=)" I can't/won't be more specific about the errors I saw, but I will say that we did another round of critiques a year ago with different novels and I was surprised -- and proud -- to discover that he had done a *much* better job with the romance. I put a bunch of smiley faces in-line.

Sometimes you just have to do it and see if it's working. If you can find someone you're comfortable with, who you feel will be honest with you, and whose honesty you will listen to, then a bit of trial and error is probably the best way to work through this. Good luck!

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I suppose my problem is that this is a situation where innuendo won't work. So far it isn't a question of whether or not it works since I haven't been able to force myself to write it. Instead, I'm posting while I procrastinate. *grins*

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

My suggestion is that you should just go ahead and write it, Jeanne. Forget how you feel--you're only the narrator. Focus on how your characters feel. And then find a nice Macallan--or maybe, start with the Macallan.

Pat

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Oh, now there's a good idea. Start with the Macallen.

Posted by rstegman (Member # 3233) on :

I have read about a dozen romances, a couple thousand or so action adventures.
I have also tried to write a romance once or twice. It isn't easy if that is not your bent.

There are fantasy romances and science fiction romances. What you have to decide is whether your story is more romance or more action adventure.

Badly written love scenes are not pretty. It is hard to write them right and not read like porn, and still not look silly.

In your scene, they don't have to disrobe to be hot. Just the reactions to each other, how they touch, look into each other's eyes. how they picture the world around them at that moment.
One of the hottest videos I have ever seen was a country duet filmed in Paris. They movements had them close, almost touching, then pulling away. The way they looked, the expressions, the promise of the kiss made it really effective.
Doing a scene with the promise of something is so much more difficult than manhood and heaven scenes.

Also consider your audience. What do they normally expect to see in their stories? Some will expect ship explosions and full tilt running from hungry beasts. Others will want fully developed characters who show emotion.

Good luck, if anything I said sticks, I can explore it more.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I see that the title of my thread was deceptive. I am writing a romanctic relationship within a novel--not writing a "romance novel" of any sort. LOL

Sorry, that was my poor woring of the title.

As far as whether fantasy readers expect full characterizations, I suggest reading A Song of Ice and Fire if you can't answer that question.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited March 27, 2008).]

Posted by smncameron (Member # 7392) on :

If you don't think you can write a romance, and don't enjoy reading them, my advice would be to not write a romance. I believe that writing books you wouldn't enjoy reading only leads to shoddy work.

But that's just me.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Non-romance novels sometimes have romantic relationships within them.

If you say, "my characters will never be attracted to each other or have a non-platonic relationship" you've limited yourself more than I care to. But that's your choice. In my NON-ROMANCE novel, two of the characters are going to fall in love--and pay a lot for doing so.

Bad Yeressa! Bad Ricart! No mushy stuff. *gives them squinty-eyed looks* You got to kiss. Now you get to SUFFER! Mwahahahaha

That's the fun part. (God, in spite of the days, weeks or even months when it's hard, I love writing. Now who kills the prince. And what happens then?)

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited March 27, 2008).]

Posted by smncameron (Member # 7392) on :

My reply was a little unclear, so I guess you've misinterpreted it.

Even if the novel is primarily non-romantic, if you don't enjoy reading mushiness, don't include it. There are a hundred ways to get around it.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I don't think I do know any way around it. Oh I could say they fell madly in love and not show it--but that wouldn't satisfy me.

A lot of the plot revolves around the repercussions of what they do. This novel is just not coming easy. I'm sure I'll spend a time here whining about how hard it is. Fortunately I'm writing another easier novel and editing a third one at the same time. Gives me an excuse to only slog out a thousand words or so a day on this one.

But not coming easy is good, I think. It means I'm using writing muscles I haven't used before and trying something larger and more complex than I've ever dared. It scares me to tell the truth.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited March 27, 2008).]

Posted by Oblomova (Member # 7846) on :

This may sound like a weird suggestion, but since you already feel overwhelmed, maybe it would be good to start, not by writing, but by brainstorming a two-columned cause-effect chart for each character.

I'm imagining a romantic impulse or overture on one side, the recipient's probable reaction in the center, and a long-term consequence on the far right. Then you could do the reverse, but from the love interest's point of view.

I think you might start with cliches, but then as you add more and more little interactions and feelings, I'm guessing that you'll start creating actions that really come from your characters and not from one of the stereotyped melodramas that make us go "eeew" when we think of romance. You probably won't actually use any of these ideas, but it'll get you past that desperate, trapped feeling to get it all out. Then you can decide that "she would never say that," or "he wouldn't be trying that just after the castle burned down."

This might just be silliness, but it sounded good at the time

p.s. edited to fix redundant "and" and a run-on sentence

[This message has been edited by Oblomova (edited March 27, 2008).]

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

See, I don't think things have to get mushy, just because two people are in love. Obviously, I don't know your characters or how they would react--maybe they would get mushy, in which case, yeah, you don't have a lot of choice but to role up your sleeves and mush on in. Though, again, I think a little can go a long way. Most people get love. Most (dare I say all?) people have been in love at least once.

One of the most poignant love stories that i've read recently is William Barton's When We Were Real. Not a lick of mush in there, and yet its complete believable.

My WIP hinges on two love stories, actually. One is all thumbs and elbows, so that's easier to write (so close to my own experiences, lol!). The other is a bit more intense... and I'm struggling with it too, esp since one character is quite the romantic. The first round I just wrote stuff as mushy as could be, if only to get it out of my system. Then I went through and edited out stuff. I think I ended up cutting more than 3/4 of it. The rest I rewrote, deciding to put only what's salient and interesting. It helped that I'd read a friend's piece that was just full of gushing "I love you" this and "I love you" that. It helped solidify for me how I didn't want mine to read. Because I could see how when he was writing it it seemed so important, but as a reader it's boring. We don't necessarily need to hear every confession of love. In fact, a look, a touch might be all we need.

Just some more thoughts to throw out there. The Macallan's sounding real good now to me, too!

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited March 28, 2008).]

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

Just have them sleep together. If there's anything I've learned from Sci-Fi (aside from "Never fly into a wormhole" and "The person closest to you is very likely an android"), it's that having sex once with someone you have just met and have only talked to long enough to trade a couple clever insults is the definition of true love.

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

I once met a man who directed stage fights. He said that, in addition to the action, he tried to make the fights tell us something about the characters.

I wonder if you could use this idea in the love scenes, telling us something about their characters through the way they treat each other. For example, you could show a man who's normally aggressive to be capable of consideration and tenderness. Or maybe the woman could be less submissive than he expects.

Perhaps we've seen them as self-controlled characters and a love scene could establish that they can be passionate and uncontrolled too; maybe the scene could foreshadow a powerful unleashing of violent passion later when they finally get the bad guy.

Just a thought, and enjoy the Macallan,
Pat

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

*chuckles* You should know me better than that, Talespinner. My women are aggressive and the men submissive. Well, not always.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

"wetwilly"'s life-lesson-from-SciFi is wrong. If I got some action everytime I insulted someone, I wouldn't even have time to post this...

Posted by tigertinite (Member # 4803) on :

Have you read Flaubert? Madame Boviary is a novel that has the 'mushy stuff' that you seem to be wanting to place, but he does it in a way that is far less obtrusive than modern books tend to. For the best descriptions of this kind of thing that will leave the reader with no questions, but still not completely scare them off you could possibly do something like that. Read some of the classics where immorality play a role in the plot and see how they did it, they were far more creative than our 'tell it, don't hint' writers that I have read so often, sometimes the imagination is worse than the best thing you could have written in that situation.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I have read Madame Bovary but not since college so I must admit I'll have to re-read it. I don't remember the details of how that was handled. You picked up on exactly my concern. I need to show that they will behave in a way they themselves consider immoral because of their passion. Thanks for the suggestion.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

What POV are you going to be telling from? Man's or woman's? I think that affects the outcome considerably. Sounds like it's the man's point of view since he's in your ensemble.

Like someone said, when the dizzying lust/infatuation comes along, it's kind of like being insane. Decisions that might normally be measured, considered, thought about, dithered, go out the window along with articles of clothing. Hearts race. Being near the other quickens pulse, clouds thinking. You're dimly aware that you're not in your right head but you sort of don't care. Your friends and those around you notice and complain that you're insane, but again you don't quite care. You make REALLY REALLY REALLY bad decisions. Life-alteringly bad ones. And some just stupid dumb idiotic ones.

If it's mutual, that removes some of the idiotic decisions that come from a numb tongue and clumsy feet. But then you have the two together making dumb decisions that may negatively impact those around them.

One way if you haven't already considered is to have them drawn to each other, a perilous situation perhaps, but build up - because that's what is enticing for the reader is the tension and the build up. Hold off on the consummation (even if it's just a kiss) for as long as you can. Afterwards, have her reveal some damage, some internal conflict he had no idea about (a child by a previous relationship, a horror from her past, a secret pact with the devil, whatever), and destroy him with her turning away. He (your MC) should bear the brunt of the devastation, but if they were truly in love, she's hurting too.

Good luck with this! Brought back a set of powerful (stupid) memories for me, LOL.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Yes, it is from his PoV. I am normally quite comfortable writing from a male PoV but that may be adding to my discomfort.

You described the emotions quite well. To give a rough background she is betrothed to a member of the royal family--a betrothal that she agreed to and considers important--but not only does she not care for him, she has realized he is not at all nice. Then along comes my PoV character. He is smitten with her--beyond insane and he's handsome as well as nicer than her fiance. There are many complications such as that the realm has been invaded by a strong enemy (more than one but they don't know that yet).

And then there is a supposed friend who will betray them. I don't think that it will have gone beyond a kiss--but I'm still dithering on that. Either way, they all consider it a betrayal of important oaths--especially when he...

Well, I don't want to tell the whole thing which takes away the fun of writing it. *grins*

Thanks for all the suggestions. I write a bit on it then go write other scenes and edit another novel. But I am slowly (very slowly) making progress.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited March 31, 2008).]