Hatrack River Writers Workshop: M249 SAW song

This is topic M249 SAW song in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :

as i said stay tuned well here it is. i had to go to my room and get my hard drive but here you go.

The Devil Went to Kansas
By Tzar Rommel Fenrir Wolf II
A CO 70TH ENG BN 2ND PLT

The Devil went to Kansas looking for a soul to steel.
He was in a bind, way behind looking to cut a deal.
When he came across a SAW gunner firing a SAW and shooting it hot.
He slid down the firing line and said “Boy let me tell you what.
I guess you didn’t know it but I am a SAW gunner too, and if you
Care to take a dare I’ll make a bet with you. You have a pretty good shot boy
But give the Devil his due. I got a SAW of gold against your soul too say I am better than you.”

The boy said “My name is Proctor and it might
be a sin but I’ll take your bet for I am the best there has ever been.”

tango mike.

RFW2nd

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited February 19, 2008).]

Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :

Bravo!

Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

quote:
Shooting up the mountain
Run Hajj Run.
The devil is in the barn with the rising sun.
Bullets are flying watch for hot brass.
Hajji face met the grass.

"Hajji" is pretty much the equivalent to the "N" word the way it's used - in other words, only bigots use it.

Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :

will i dont know what bigots means but how elts are we sopost to seporate inicent civilans which we call Local Nationals from the Tailaban which we call Hajji.

RFW2nd

Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :

How about "Taliban". It marks them as politically different from the civilians without resorting to bigotted labels.

Bigot:PROFESSIONAL HIPPY EXTERMINATOR

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

Although I would like to say that the use of the word 'Hajji' may offend us and we may call it bigotted, yet it has always been the case in conflicts for soldiers to call the enemy by such names. If I wrote a book set during the second world war, I would probably have to use these terms for authenticity sake, as many people used them.

e.g.

Boche
Hun
Nips
Japs
Charlie
Gooks

It helps to group an enemy together and give them common traits. It dehumanizes them, and makes killing them easier for a young soldier to cope with. Killing is a burden you may carry lightly as a young man but it often weighs heavier as you age.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Well what concerns me is that the Hatrack River Writers Workshop has now published RFW2's poem.

Sorry, but it can't stay.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

This is gonna keep me up at night. It's just gotta leave a mark.

Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

quote:
Although I would like to say that the use of the word 'Hajji' may offend us and we may call it bigotted, yet it has always been the case in conflicts for soldiers to call the enemy by such names.

Not sure what you're saying - are you condoning the use of these terms by US Soldiers or just stating a fact that they're used?

Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :

ok the PROFESSIONAL HIPPY EXTERMINATOR only refirs to US hippies.

to put this into perspective our terps when they talk to the Local Nationals (civilans) and they tell us of enemy movements they say Haji.

so if locals say it and the terps say it, how is it wrong for i a combat soldger in AFG wrong?
and what differents dose it make if we say it or not.
the thought of it being any thing demorilzing to our enemy or to the locals never crosed my mind. it is used by the locals as well. i see it as like skadder said for other wars. how many war movies have you seen when the enemy was realy called by their true name (other than the higher ups during brefs)

RFW2nd

[This message has been edited by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (edited February 22, 2008).]

Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :

RFW2nd-
While I have nothing but respect for the soldiers of our countries serving in Afghanistan, I think that your use of bigoted or racist, military terms may offend some who read them here.
I don't deny the need of such terms in the arena of war, where dehumanizing the enemy is often necessary for some to perform their duties. The problem some may have with the term used in your song was that it was posted on a purely civilian forum.

Many Hatrackers are not U.S. citizens or even white and if Hatrackers don't police their own, someone may feel that your song reflects the whole of the membership.

The use of racist epithets can be acceptable coming from the mouth of a narrator or character, and one could argue that your song was narrative but one should be careful. I am not suggesting that you censor your own writing only that what is acceptable there may not be suitable for posting here.

Others may disagree with me as I can only speak for myself.

Otherwise I am glad that you have let ME off the hook.
A professional "Canadian" Hippy

[This message has been edited by Cheyne (edited February 22, 2008).]

Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :

i have but only one problom with Canada, and that is its free health care. and it makes me invy them.

RFW2nd

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

quote:
Not sure what you're saying - are you condoning the use of these terms by US Soldiers or just stating a fact that they're used?

I will clarify what I said so you can decide whether to have a go at me or not.

I wasn't condoning it it I was just pointing it out as a fact.

I was also pointing out that it may offend US sitting in our homes in front of our computers. However if it is your job to get up in the morning and machine gun to death a number of armed Taliban soldiers, the rights and wrongs of calling them Hajji will seem rather irrelevant--killing them would seem to be a greater offense than any name-calling.
Again I am not condoning it; it is one of the by-products of war and one of the reasons why when people come back from war they have difficulty adjusting to peace-time civilian life--their values have been altered. In some areas, for the better and in other areas for the worse.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited February 23, 2008).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

I believe this is--to quote Shakespeare--much ado about nothing. The argument is that is valid in a narrative, yet has arisen out of narrative. It was an obvious mock-up of a song. And the "N" word is used prolifically in songs (particularly by the very same group who takes offense from the word). Should we go back and change the cartoon Johnny Quest's sidekick from Haji to Osama for the sake of political correctness?? Blechh!

To equate "haji" with the "N" words is ridiculous. They have the term "Sand-N-----" for that. However, it would equate with "Toby", "Kunta Kinte", "Sambo", "Chin", "Fu Manchu", "Mick", "Mack", "Ivan", "Juan", or "Klaus".

And as far as WWII, Skadder left off more incendiary nicknames than he listed--including ones that portrayed allies in a slightly derogatory manor.

When I walked into a convenience store in Florida, and the arabic man behind the counter said "How can I help you, Cowboy," I did not get insulted, though it is a derisive term for Americans in other countries. I figured it was his way of failing to sound cool.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

IB, your last paragraph made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Debating whether or not to discuss the meaning and various implications of the word in question here. Haven't decided yet.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

Your welcome, Kathleen. I was hoping my humor didn't get me in trouble, again. <mock bow>

Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

quote:
To equate "haji" with the "N" words is ridiculous.

Wrong answer. Try again.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

The Hadji in Johnny Quest was from India, not Iraq.

Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :

if i would have known that my twisted parody of the devil wht to gorga would bring so much contirvirsy on the use of a word that appers twice in the song i would have blanked it out.
india is less than a days travil from here in AFG. on one occation on a rige on a demo missian my GPS said i was 10m in india. but the actial india was 200m down the other side. we go by the old borders before the war for the borders are always changing.

RFW2nd

Posted by Inkwell (Member # 1944) on :

It's just a word...and words only have as much power as you are prepared to give them. The meaning of the word is lent weight by the context you provide it. I've been called some pretty horrible things over the years, and most of it I let slide right off my back because getting up in arms about it simply wasn't worth the effort.

It seems to me that in this case--where RFW2 clearly did not intend to insult or humiliate anyone, but simply portray reality from his own experience--allowing one's temper to flare is irrational at best. After all, the focus of the poem wasn't the word in question. Neither was the title "I hate Indians," or some other such garbage. He was simply recreating the world in which he is currently (or was recently) submerged.

It is better, IMHO, to examine the context and intent behind a word, rather than make blind assumptions based on emotion and
sociopsychological knee-jerk reactions.

Just my two cents.

Inkwell
------------------
"The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp."
-Anonymous

Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

quote:
It is better, IMHO, to examine the context and intent behind a word, rather than make blind assumptions based on emotion and sociopsychological knee-jerk reactions.

Did someone here make a blind assumption on emotion and sociopsychological knee-jerk reactions?