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Posted by AstroStewart (Member # 2597) on :
 
I've been toying with an idea for the next book in a series I'm writing, but I wanted to test believability/cliche alert of what I'm tinkering with.

In the last book, one of the characters was put in a situation to half/half by accident/by coersion murder someone he cared deeply for, essentially a love interest he had taken to protecting. He did so in order to save thousands of people, but still, he ended up killing someone he cared about. At the end of the book he spirals into depression and apathy, and goes off on his own to live in misery and guilt.

Given that background, would you as a reader believe it if he started having hallucinations of the woman he murdered? Both as a combination of guilt and loneliness as he isolates himself, to have someone to talk to, and also as a way of "beating himself up" but having a vision of this woman tormenting him basically all the time?

Or would real, interactive, waking hallucinations like this be hard to swallow? or seem cliche? etc?
 


Posted by Doctor (Member # 7736) on :
 
I say do it! I think that sounds like it could be an awesome read!
 
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
I see things like that somewhat often. I'm not sure if it's cliche or not...the term is so subjective. What's really important is the story. This is just one part of it and if you do it well, it would work for me (as it has in the past). The only thing I would caution against would be to focus too much of the story on this one element. I would expect other things to be happening.

The first part sounds very interesting. The second part could be interesting as well, depending upon how it plays out.
 


Posted by smncameron (Member # 7392) on :
 
I'm assuming your target audience is sane. No? If so, you can prescribe whatever you want to his derangement. Everybody's brain works differently, and it's almost impossible to imagine not having full control of your wits. (try it) Theres a grand literay tradition of delightfully insane characters - eg. "A Rose for Emily"
 
Posted by AstroStewart (Member # 2597) on :
 
No, the hallucinations will not be the driving force of the novel. By this point, there are roughly 3 "main" POV characters we follow in the series, and for starters this is just 1 of the characters. More than anything, the hallucinations will be just something to prod this character into actions of one kind or another, be they good or bad, instead of letting him sit on his butt and commiserate in his guilt all by his lonesome.

In short, it's a subplot, not the main one.
 


Posted by wrenbird (Member # 3245) on :
 
Go for it. I like the idea. Sounds creepy and tragic all at once.
 
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
 
Depression can deepen until it becomes a psychotic depression. Psychosis can include delusions (believing things that aren't true) hallucinations (seeing things that aren't there)> A person experiencing depression on this level would normally need hospitalization, often against their will (in the UK it is called sectioning). They may even require ect (electro-convulsive therapy).
 
Posted by AstroStewart (Member # 2597) on :
 
Ooh, very interesting information skadder. Do you have any idea how a condition like this would be treated in a pre-industry worlds though? My series is a fantasy series with medievil-ish technology, so there really aren't hospitals/psych wards like we think of them today...

Also, is it possible under these psychological depression hallucinations to not, say, hallucinate about all sorts of stuff, but have this single focused hallucination in the form of a person, but to be completely "normal" in your other perceptions?

Think of the movie "A Beautiful Mind" where the MC realizes that 3 people in his life don't exist, and gets past his disease by simply accepting that fact and ignoring those hallucinations. I suppose that illustration just answered my question actually. I certainly "bought it" in that movie, I accepted the premise... so I think I'll feel free to toy with this idea in my novel.


 


Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
 
I would imagine that in your story he may actually be seeing the a real ghost(?)...it may not be an actual hallucination--you just require plausibility. So yes, it is plausible that a depressed person may hallucinate. A person suffering from psychosis may have a very specific delusion (or hallucination) and so may operate otherwise on a day-to-day level quite well.

For example when I worked my psychaitric ward as a student I remember talking to a guy who seemed completely sane and reasonable. I spoke to the nurse in charge and made the same point. She suggested i question him on a particular topic (What color his skin was--he was white) and it became obvious the guy had this fixed, immovable (well, immovable without some hefty anti-psychotic meds, anyway) delusion that he was a black guy.

As regards treatments in the middle-ages; Tre-panning (boring holes in the skull to let out the spirits; treated using extracts like valerian, perhaps to calm people, St. John's Wort etc.(I am no herbalist so you will have to check that stuff--I am guessing); hanging or burning them as they are possessed by evil forces (death--quite an effective treatment!); dunking in water; beating (You may think twice about telling people about your hallucinations if they do that to you when you do); kicking them out of village to fend for themselves (Darwinism).

All pretty basic stuff--but off the top of my head--you'd probably want to confirm some of those ideas with a bit of research.

Adam


[This message has been edited by skadder (edited January 30, 2008).]
 


Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
I could see the second part working for me...I've always been drawn to the "what happens after" and my files are littered with ideas dealing with characters dealing with what they've done.

But the first part...isn't that the plot from that Joan Collins episode of Star Trek?
 


Posted by NoTimeToThink (Member # 5174) on :
 
As far as believability goes, another good example is TV's Monk. It isn't treated as a hallucination, but Adrian has conversations with his dead wife Trudy all the time, and it works. Trudy is supportive and helpful, like she was in life, and will actually help/push Adrian in directions that he is resisting when he needs to.

How will your "hallucination" treat your MC? Will the hallucination be his attempt to pretend/wish she hadn't died (and be loving like she was), or will she be his way of punishing himself (angry at him - maybe she "makes" him step in front of cars or something)? Perhaps she could start out angry and eventually forgive him (as he learns to forgive himself).

Go for it!
 


Posted by AstroStewart (Member # 2597) on :
 
I'm still toying with the idea in my head, so I'm not entirely sure how the hallucination will treat him. I think the hallucination will know what happened though, and essentially blame him, and make him feel guilty. At the same time, I think the hallucination (maybe he'll think it really IS a ghost...) will give him tasks to do to make up for it, like going out and trying to help people in need at the risk of his own life, even though he feels like isolating himself and just wallowing in guilt.
 
Posted by Sara Genge (Member # 3468) on :
 
I can only answer from a Medical view-point, which of course is different than what an average reader will take.

Basically, visual hallucinations post-trauma kind of suck.

Unless he were on drugs, in which case I'd expect him to see stuff that wasn't there. But then, why would the guy take drugs that make you hallucinate (cannabis, LDS), if they bring back painful flashbacks? Unless he's punishing himself for what he's done, in which case you've got a powerful self-destructive psychological tool there.

Normal psychotic hallucinations are usually heard, rather than seen (ie: voices, not ghosts). But hey, if he's depressed and drinks a lot then yes, visual hallucinations could come about, both as a result of repeat pathological intoxication or deprivation. It would still be very weird, but the Medical bone in me won't be screaming for mercy.

Another possibility is PTSD: he wouldn't see things, per se, but he'd have constant flash-backs of the episode, nightmares etc. He'd be aware that this stuff wasn't real, but he wouldn't be able to stop it.

Yet another way of doing this: he's seeing her actual ghost. He puts it down to hallucination, until someone tells him that that is really really weird and that, hmmm, maybe if you see a ghost, it is a freaking ghost.

Hope that helped.
 


Posted by Sara Genge (Member # 3468) on :
 
Oh, I just went back and saw Skadders post. That's right, psychotic depression can happen. However, I recomend against chosing it because once you get to that point, the guy is so down and out there's no way he's going to carry a plot. If he manages to move (severe motor inhibition or agitation goes hand in hand with this severe kind of depression), it's going to be to try and kill himself.

Treatments for depression: if you don't take the meds and you don't comit suicide, waiting it out usually brings about an end to a depressive episode (a typical one lasts 6-12 mo). However, untreated depression tends to come back more and more frequently as years go by and at the end your MC will be in some serious caca. However, if the book doesn't last years and years...
 


Posted by AstroStewart (Member # 2597) on :
 
Sara Genge you seem very medically knowledgeable. Let me pose the following. He gets depressed, begins to drink very heavily, then circumstances abruptly cut off his ability to acquire alcohol.

Could some kind of combination of severe depression coupled with like withdrawl symptoms of lack of alcohol or something like that possibly cause hallucinations? Coupled with PTSD?

Obviously, since this is a fantasy story in non-modern times, none of these terms are going to make their way into the story itself, but I do want to try to show the circumstances in a realistic way.

Then again, at the end of the day, given previous circumstanes in the series that I won't get in to, I can always chalk up the hallucination to a magic curse / a real ghost not a hallucination, etc. =P
 




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