OK I'm not sure which of these is the proper convention.
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said biting into his pizza, "if you're an idiot."
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said biting into his pizza, "If you're an idiot."
I'm talking about the capitalization of the new dialog after the tag. I automatically assume that it shouldn't be capitalized, since it's part of the same sentence, but then again it is new dialog. So now I'm second guessing myself.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Too much second guessing. You were right. If it's not a new sentence, it isn't capitalized. Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
Yeah, the lower-case if is correct, but the entire sentence isn't especially good style.
A 'said' in the middle of sentence is a very effective device to tell the reader there is a pause in the speech. Without the pizza bit, no problem.
Here, your character is also taking an action. Taking a bite of pizza takes longer than a pause, so this action should be separated into sentences.
quote:"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said biting into his pizza, "If you're an idiot."
becomes
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question." Joe took a bite of his pizza as he continued. "If you;re an idiot."
or
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said. He bit into his pizza and forced the rest of his thoughts past the gnashed dough and cheese, and sprinkling the words with bits of sausage. "If you're an idiot."
Both imply some chewing occurs as Joe reduces the mouthful to something he can talk around.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Well, I disagree on the "as he continued" which implies that he continues simulateous to taking a bite. While that may be possible, it would be messy and he'd spray bits of pizza all over me. Yuck.
I would prefer something along the lines of:
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question..." Joe took a bite of his pizza and chewed it as he looked at me thoughtfully. "If you're an idiot."
Since the original thought is left unfinished, I think the elipsis is important. And I do like action to replace dialogue tags. But of course, none of those answer the original question. LOL
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 16, 2007).]
Posted by 'Graff (Member # 2648) on :
Even stripping this fragment of its pizza-related material, I'm a big fan of splitting it into two sentences.
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said biting into his pizza, "If you're an idiot."
Would become:
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said. "If you're an idiot."
All of the extraneous bits add emphasis to the latter part of the sentence, but are not crucial to Joe's point.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I generally prefer short and factual sentences, with the verb as close to the action as you can get---except in dialog, where I figure anything goes. " 'Yeah, that's a good grammar question,' Joe said. He bit into his pizza. 'If you're an idiot.' "
(Of course what I write here isn't what I tolerate when I'm writing fiction.)
Other than that...if " 'if you're an idiot' " is a complete sentence, yes it has to be capitalized---and yes, you have to change the comma after "pizza" to a period.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
I think "if you're an idiot" is a sentence fragment. But in dialogue I frequently do use sentence fragments so I see nothing wrong with that. Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
I think the pizza statement is a bad example, because it is ambiguous, hence all the posts.
If you have speech, you can insert the speech tag anywhere within the speech. e.g.
1)He grabbed me and said, "John, where's the fire extinguisher? We need it right now."
or
2)"John," he said and grabbed me, "where's the fire extinguisher? We need it right now."
or
3)"John, where's the fire extinguisher? " he said and grabbed me, "We need it right now."
or
4)"John, where's the fire extinguisher? We need it right now," he said and grabbed me.
I think? In option 3 you could replace the comma after me with a full stop if you wanted to.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
I believe in 3) you should replace the comma with a period.
However, I don't see the point in including a dialogue tag when there is a description of action in the paragraph. In each of those examples, it would be clear that John was the speaker since action by the speaker should be the only action in a paragraph with dialogue.
Heh. I love how we can endlessly debate these minutia.
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
John isn't the speaker. He is the the speakee.
Posted by Balthasar (Member # 5399) on :
Strange, no one pointed out that it's almost impossible to say anything while biting into a piece of pizza.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Well, the previous line was "...Harry said, looking to Joe, who was exceptionally talented at speaking while eating." Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Sure you can, but your companion will get a face full of pizza.
Posted by halogen (Member # 6494) on :
"Yeah, that's a good." Joe said biting into his pizza. "Grammar, question if you're an idiot."
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
If it's a sentence fragment, then it needs three dots as an indicator. " '...if you're an idiot.' "
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
I've never heard of putting an elipsis before something. It normally marks something that trails off when you leave a sentence incomplete.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Or if something else was there but was omitted.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
If you want to put action in the middle of a complete sentence of dialog, you've got to figure out some way of indicating it that doesn't confuse the reader.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
I don't find it confusing, but I think it's easier to see if we skip the pizza.
"Yeah, that's a good grammar question," Joe said rolling his eyes, "if you're an idiot."
But I'm not fond of combining action with a tag. That's just me.
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
I think it works if you don't overdo it. You have to try to find the natural pause.
It can be very effective at some points in a story.
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
It's a pretty decent way to place a pause in the action. I prefer to do it (put the pause in) different ways but it's still valid. Like every other technique the trick is in using it effectively.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
quote:Well, I disagree on the "as he continued" which
The content of the sentence wasn't my point. The point was the use of a tag mid-sentence is a good device to indicate a pause. Also, that in the exact context of teh sentence under discussion, there was more than just a pause. That point seems not to be disputed.
