Hatrack River Writers Workshop: What do you think of this?

This is topic What do you think of this? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I have an elf in a short story I'm doing... I may actually finish this one. But I refer to him as a faeling. How would that--resonate?

Posted by Heresy (Member # 1629) on :

I have to say that I like Faeling better! It sounds really exotic.

Posted by gobi13x (Member # 6837) on :

It seems like a good idea, as long as your readers know that is what you intend.

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

Resonating an elf might hurt its faelings.

Posted by Tara (Member # 4638) on :

Great word. Much better than "elf", which has always made me think of Santa, despite prolonged exposure to LOTR.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Thanks! I liked it when I thought of it. I *think* I thought of it and haven't seen it anywhere. *ponders*

Anyway, I also like it better than elf but wanted to get some other opinions. But if anyone would like to use it, feel free.

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

I think it sounds cool. And certainly more fresh than "elf," which is a word that now bores me just to read it.

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

I am fairly certain that...

faelings are fairly well known among certain gamers as half elf and half faerie creatures.

http://www.magicinthegarden.com/html/faelings_0.html

What about Eaflings..all the same letters just mussed up a little.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Once More, With Faeling...

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Addressing Skadder: What "certain" gamers out of curiousity? What game is it in?

It's not used except in any game I've played. I'm rather out of gaming these days, but I suspect I would have heard it was used in any of the major games out there. Yeah, I used to be rather big into gaming and still have many gaming contacts in my old guilds.

Elfs are well-known as well--to put it mildly. So the name having been used somewhere won't necessarily keep me from using it although I would hesitate if it were in WoW. Actually, it is in WoW as a ferret-like summoned creature. I had forgotten that but it's not important enough to be an issue.

I don't want to use just some random mix of letters. Obviously, faeling is based on the word fae. Eafling is just kind of a random mix of letters with no resonance which isn't what I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggest though.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 16, 2007).]

Posted by Alye (Member # 5017) on :

Elf's are members of the Fae. (Fey, Fay, Faerie, Farie you choose a spelling) So, yes they are Faelings. It isn't a common name to describe the occupents of the world of Fae. It has been used before but I belive it's a recent term.

I think Changling by whitewolf (tabeltop RPG) used the term, and I have heard EQ2 players refer to the Faerie races as Faelings, but I dont play either game.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Ah EQ2 might be the game that they're referring to. It's not one I've played. It is good to know, so thanks to people who brought it to my attention.

I did decide to go with Faeling as what the elfs are called in my short story. Now if I can just get the thing polished enough to be worth sending to publishers.

I think some people are trying to save being able to include the race of elves (elfs? I'm never sure which is better. I see both. Elves sounds like the ones with Santa) and lose the Tolkien and Santa image that goes along. I'm not sure that a change in name will do it but it can't hurt. And I really like how Faeling sounds.

Posted by First Assistant (Member # 3458) on :

JeanneT, I am aware of the penchant for conflict between mfreivald and you. However, if his link seemed condescending, the search results adressed a genuine concern for your question of originality. His comment reflected that.

However, rest assured that I will be keeping an eye out for intentional dissension.

As formerly stated, many of us are passionate, and that also can lead to easy affronts.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Kathleen said that we were not to post addressing each other for any reason. I intend to abide by her instructions whether he does or not.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 17, 2007).]

Posted by First Assistant (Member # 3458) on :

Kathleen and I did discuss this, and I believe that I have acted in accordance with her wishes. No harm, no foul. You are welcome to email a complaint to her, if you are unsatisfied. Should you choose to avoid responding to him for any reason, so be it, and that will probably be for the best.

However, you did respond to his post, whether you addressed him or not. And if I am forced to begin deleting posts to keep from going down that road, I will be indiscriminate on the matter.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I was not complaining about your actions. You will, I am sure, follow Kathleens instructions as you consider best. I did not feel anything I posted addressed him, but if you feel that it did or if you feel any post of mine is inappropriate for any reason, I would certainly expect you to delete it. I have not and will not complain about the actions of the moderators.

Edit: And if the tone of my posts sounds harsh it is because there is too much history of dissention and his post in this thread was too condescending for me to do anything but bite my tongue and try my best to keep my mouth shut. I told Kathleen and I absolutely mean it that I will not feed into this dispute further.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 17, 2007).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

I can see what Robert was saying:

quote:

Once More, With Faeling...

If you heard the word, and didn't know the spelling, it could resonate with "failing".

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Yes, it might. The pronunciation is close. Of course it would be FA-ling with a long a sound so not an exact homonym.

Interesting point. Of course, many words are homonyms, but it is something to take into consideration.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 17, 2007).]

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I suppose that if you wanted to be sure it wasn't mispronounced as "feeling" you could spell it "fayling" but I do prefer "faeling" and the pronunciation is the same for either.

Edit: Bleh. You were saying it was close to fail. Yes. That is a true homonym.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 17, 2007).]

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

Why not stick an 'r' in so it becomes Faerling?

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

You know, although it isn't original either, I haven't seen much written about the Faething.

(That eliminates the possible connection to "fail".)

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 17, 2007).]

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

faething - A thing which is fae? I can't image anyone calling my fae "things."

I'm fine with faeling myself. How many words have never ever been used? But those are some alternatives for anyone who's bothered by it being close to fail.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 17, 2007).]

Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :

I vote for Faeling, of course I'd be disappointed if this faeling was just an elf with a fancy name. If it looks like a rabbit and smells like a rabit why don't we call it a turfilang?

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

On the other hand if it looks like a rabbit and smells like a rabbit but I call it a hareling, I might can get away with it. Fae has always been another word for elves--one that I prefer.

As far as how different these are than Tolkienesque, quite actually. But I don't know that you see it on a superficial level.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Well, interestingly enough after debating this so much, I'm now workshopping the story I asked this question for. I've gotten about 10 critiques between Baen's Slush Bar and Critter's Workshop and not one person has even mentioned the "faeling" issue. I'm assuming from that that the name works.

Anyone who's curious, it is currently on the slush bar which is someplace I like posting my (few) short stories. There is always that slight possibility of the editors actually deciding to buy it. *snorts*

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

After posting that, I wondered if everyone is acquainted with Baen's Slush Bar. It is well worth getting acquainted with. I'm going to include some information from the Baen's Universe submission page about it for anyone who hasn't found it.

Even if you don't happen to want to submit to Baen (I suppose there are people who wouldn't want to submit there) it's a good place for hanging out or getting critiques. People from Baen do give comments on posted stories quite regularly.

quote:
At least two slots in each issue will be reserved to introduce new writers. Submissions wanting consideration for the "Introducing" new writers slot in each issue must be submitted via the Universe Slush conference on Baen's Bar. http://bar.baen.com There are no exceptions. A writer can only be introduced once.
New writers may submit directly to the "regular" slush pile through the submissions form, if they choose. However, those stories will not be considered for the "Introducing" slot and are competing against everything else in slush. We strongly recommend that new writers submit their stories through the Baen's Universe Slush conference in Baen's Bar. You can reach that conference by going to http://www.baen.com/, then selecting "Baen's Bar" from the menu at the top. You will need to filll out a very short registration form the first time you go there. Once into the Bar, select the conferences titled "Baens Universe Facts," "Baen's Universe Slush," and "Baens Universe Slush Comments." The first conference is for general discussion about the magazine. The "Baen's Universe Slush" conference is where you should post your story. After having posted your story, please put up a short announcement that you've done so in "Baen's Universe Slush Comments." All discussion of the stories should take place in that conference....
Furthermore, while only new writers -- as defined above -- will be eligible for the "Introducing" slot in the magazine, the Baen's Universe Slush conference is not restricted to them. Any writer who wants to, regardless of publication history, can use the Universe Slush conference as an alternate way of submitting a story. Your story will not qualify for the "Introducing" slot, to be sure, but we will be using the Slush conference to select other stories as well. Our advice is that even writers who are already established should consider doing so, although it's entirely your decision. We will simply point out that, in the nature of things, the Slush conference is a less harsh environment than the regular slush pile -- which, of necessity, operates along principles of ruthless Darwinian selection.

I suppose they're kind of competitors with Hatrack in a way so if anyone minds this being posted, I'll delete it. But they work quite differently than Hatrack and knowing and using both are a good idea in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited January 19, 2008).]

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

I've seen Baen's Bar. I guess what concerns me about it are publication rights. True, you have to register for access, but there are no limitations on the registration, so essentially it's a publicly accessible site. And you're posting your entire story, if I understand correctly.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

It is not considered public access as long as it is a passworded site, annepin. This is a spurious issue in my opinion. The same can be said for Critter's Workshop. Critters is run, by the way, by Andrew Bert who is the VP of SFWA. (He is controversial but surely no one would say he doesn't know these issues.) He would hardly put publication rights in jeopardy. Hundreds of stories are sold after being critted on these sites.

Every short story I have ever sold has been workshopped and publications generally encourage rather than discourage the practice. While there may be a publication out there somewhere that would object, I have yet to see one.

Edit: Here is Andrew Bert's response on Critters to the question and although he addresses Critters in particular the same is true of any password protected critique site. And I am more than willing to take Mr. Bert's word on it.

quote:
Is sending through the group considered publication?
In a word: No. Editors recognize the utility of critique groups and that many authors belong to them. Being seen by a restricted set of other authors is not publication ("publication" means available to anyone, i.e., "the public"). Besides, you'll almost certainly change the story after workshoppers see it, so what you submit to an editor is different than the group saw. Lastly, consider that Critters was recommended in Asimov's, and the venerable old Omni, one of the highest paying F&SF markets of its time, had workshops listed on their page of links, and the fiction editor, Ellen Datlow invited this very group to be an "official Omni workshop", so I think it's safe to conclude that at least one influential editor has no problems with critique groups.
If you're really concerned about it, mention in a cover letter that the story was sent through Critters. Chances are that will do more to enhance Critters reputation than anything else, but I doubt it hurts anyone.

Yes, on Critters, Forward Motion, Baen's and the other critique sites I know, you post the entire story. A story can't be judged except in its entirety. The story I have posted on Baen's and Critters had a weak ending as was immediately pointed out. Only by having the entire story critiqued would that have been seen.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited January 19, 2008).]

Posted by smncameron (Member # 7392) on :

The problem I have with the -ling suffix is that it seems to imply something small. If your elves are full size this may cause problems.

Incidently have you considered having your elves think of themselves as faelings, but having the world around them address them as elves? Could be interesting.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

They call themselves something quite different in their own language. Faeling is what humans, with whom they have been at war, call them

But I found it amusing that of all the things I struggled over in this story, that is something that no one has commented on at all. It hasn't caused any problems and with the number of critiques I've received, I feel quite comfortable in saying that.

-ling has an interesting history, by the way, and doesn't mean a diminutive necessarily as in earthling.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited January 19, 2008).]

Posted by smncameron (Member # 7392) on :

You're asking how faeling resonates. That's how it resonates with me.

[This message has been edited by smncameron (edited January 20, 2008).]