I had a rejection today, my fifth. I sent it somewhere where you get some feedback within a week or so-- a place for flash fiction only.
One of the editors said it had some 'segments that were over-written."
What is over-writing?
Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :
in my mind few things are "over written" ex JANE AIR or however it is spelled.
dont get down just keep your head strate if you still have one and try again. or do as i and prent it out and pass it out. evencily it will cetch someones eye.
RFW2nd
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
If this isn't too personal a question...how long is it?
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
It was about 847 words. So under the 1000 word limit they set...not over-written in that sense.
Another pervasive problem editors cited was too many words. Many suggested that new writers learn to cut their stories by 10 to 50 percent. "The most obvious error we encounter in fiction is overwriting," say Anthony Brown and Darrin English of Stickman Review. "Young writers, full of energy, throw everything and the kitchen sink into their work to impress editors."
Excess verbiage can result from several fundamental writing errors.
* Too many adjectives and adverbs. "When the yellow, round orb of the sun stealthily and smoothly creeps into the azure blue early morning sky, one may wonder why the sun didn't simply rise; it would have saved a good deal of trouble for all concerned," says Max Keele of Fiction Inferno. If you feel the need to modify every verb with an adverb (or two), or every noun with an adjective, chances are you're not picking the right words. Look for strong nouns and stand alone verbs that convey your meaning without modification.
* Using "big" words when simple ones would do. "To me, 'ascended' sounds inappropriate to describe a man walking up a few steps," says Adam Golaski of New Genre. Seeking alternatives to "said" is another common error; too often, characters "expostulate" or "riposte."
* Too much detail or backstory. Many writers fall into the trap of adding too much detail or description. "Describing the color and length of a protagonist's hair is great if it's relevant; otherwise it's fluff you can cut," says Don Muchow of Would That It Were. Diane Walton of ON SPEC deplores "long exposition 'lumps' that stop the action dead in its tracks, so one character can explain to another that their society has been operating in a certain way for centuries, or the long speech where the bad guy explains why he has to kill the good guy
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I can't imagine how one can "overwrite" in that short a story. I think one could use the wrong words, but not too many. (I usually get complaints about my stuff being "thin"---either I'm too coy with what I know about the story, or I'm just not developing it right---both, actually.)
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Although I would consider rewriting for editorial comment, I have at times got such divergent comments from editors about the SAME story, I tend much less to do so than I used to. I have had different editors on the same story turn it down because they didn't like the story arc, because it moved to slowly, because they didn't like the characterization AND *snorts* because it had no soul. I re-read the story. I gave it very serious thought in view of what I'd heard from editors. Then I followed another of Heinlein's rules and sent it out again. Then I sold it. And I'm not even good at short stories.
Five rejections on one story isn't that many, ya know.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 09, 2007).]
Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :
I think excessive verbiage is what most editors mean by over-writing. For your story, y8ou could post a first thirteen in F&F and ask if it looks over-written.
Halogen, great find. I like that.
Another example of excess words, is "Period of time" where "time" would work just as well. I think it's a matter of looking at each word and cutting out any that don't need to be in the story.
Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :
Without having read the piece, another possibility is that there are redundancies.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
My advise would be to re-read the story very carefully. Think about if there is anyplace that it is wordy. If it is, then fix it. If you don't think it is, remind yourself that editors are fallible just like the rest of us and that the next editor may not agree. And send the story out again.
Just a few days ago I got an email from an editor about how much he loves one of my stories--this is another one that several editors have hated. While editorial comments are nice and can be helpful, honestly they can vary even more than regular reader comments. I'm not saying that you shouldn't give it serious consideration. But I have YET to get the same editorial comment twice on the same story, which gives me pause before I re-write because of one.
You have to decide if YOU think she (or he) is right or not.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 09, 2007).]
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
quote:Five rejections on one story isn't that many, ya know.
Sorry, no. I have had five rejections in total for stuff I have submitted. I have only been submitting stuff for last couple of months! This story has been submitted only once, but was read by six editors. They said:
EDITOR 1: No. While there were some interesting ideas, I found that the combination of genres, and the double twist, stretched credulity a little too much.
EDITOR 2: Maybe. Interestingly told tale that was different enough to perk my attentions.
EDITOR 3: No. The writing is rocky, and the viewpoint character's voice is shaky. I also felt like the last twist was poorly handled.
EDITOR 4: No. It's hard to make standard monsters like vampires unique enough to hold my interest, and this one didn't work for me.
EDITOR 5: Maybe. This held my interest and I liked the twist at the end.
EDITOR 6: No. This piece is filled with too many cliches and segments of overwritten narrative.
They seem to contradict each other. I am taking it as the piece probably needs refining.
I thought cross genre was 'in'. Anyway they weren't vampires--just vampire-like aliens, i.e. they had fangs and munched people.
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited December 09, 2007).]
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I would consider what editor 3 said with great care. This editor could be completely wrong, but then again, this editor could be completely right.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
"Overwritten narrative" suggests to me that you're telling more than that editor likes.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Getting multiple comments for one submission is interesting. I'd take a good hard look at whether the plot works. You seemed to get more comments on that than on the over-writing aspect. But of course you want to make SURE you don't have any cliches in it. One suggestion (a good one I think) that I've run into is that if you have ever heard a phrase before think two or three times before you use it.
It's great that you are submitting! Keep going.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
I see in that group of 6 editors a lot of personal taste. That's absolutely one of the reasons stories are accepted/rejected at publications. It's just important to note because not all stories that are rejected are in need of work. However, as Spaceman said, sit up and listen to what Editor 3 said. I also see in here an overarching theme of plot issues/believability issues, reflected in editor 1, 3, 4, and 6's comments. It could be that you need to set the stage for the story a bit better, that you need to do more thinking about character motivations, or tone down the writing (overwritten as ed 6 says seems indicative of the link/quote Halogen provided.)
It also could just be that this wasn't a fit for this magazine/this group of editors. <shrug>
But keep it up - either polish or put this one on a back burner while you work on something else. Sometimes a little distance after what feels like crushing feedback can help. I'm going through a little of that with one of my stories right now. We'll see if I can still stomach it after a few more days.
Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :
Why not post it in F&F for critique?
Pat
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
...because now I think it is rubbish! I just checked how much fits in the posting box and I couldn't find a hook in the first 13. It definitely needs a re-think.
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
I think it's kind of nice that editors gives feedback like that on your rejection, but I don't think it is all that useful most of the time. Only a real critique can point out specifically where things were "rocky" or "overwritten." And if you don't understand, only in a real critique can you ask for clarification.
Since you asked, when I think of "overwritten" I think of a narrative that tries too hard. This can involve using too many words to describe something, or words that are too big for the application, or it could indicate a certain amount of redundancy. I've seen writing that relies so heavily on metaphor and simile that I could call it overwritten. I don't usually use the word "overwritten," though. I try to be more specific.
I don't see any reason why flash can't be overwritten.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
I definitely think that flash can be over-written. Too many adverbs or adjectives, for instance. Anything can be overwritten.
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
Following some judicious editing by JeanneT the intro is ready on Shorts & Fragments.
Thanks JeanneT.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Well, not really editing--more some suggestions and some examples of what I was trying to say. The work was all yours. I think you have it tightened up a lot.
I like it by the way. And you're very welcome.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 09, 2007).]
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
And I got a rejection today that was so intentially cruel (my first that I would ever say that about) that were I a sensitive person, I'd be out slitting my wrists. I've gotten some that made me whimper or whine a bit before--good thing I really do believe in myself or I think I'd give up writing.
Try this comment of for size:
"Stories like this are the main reason I stopped reading most fantasy novels by todays current crop of authors."
And a bah-humbug to you too. *tries desperately to locate her missing sense of humor*
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 21, 2007).]
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Ouch! I say, pin it up on the wall and throw spit balls at it. I mean, what kind of person goes out of their way to be all nasty? Maybe they have the form "nasty letter". (sorry, this is my pathetic attempt at humor.)
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
Believe me, any attempt at humor is appreciated. That makes me long for form rejections. I am trying to put it down to an editor having a really bad day.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 21, 2007).]
Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :
Christine said:
quote:when I think of "overwritten" I think of a narrative that tries too hard.
Yeah. I think of writing that's trying to be poetic, and not quite making it. This doesn't have to be too many words in general, or too many adjectives and adverbs in particular, or extended metaphors, though it's often one or more of those. Sometimes it's just the wrong words (like the "ascended" example given, although that's a pretty mild example), or the wrong metaphor. Usually it's that passage that you really sweated over, and that you really love. That's the one that makes other people blink and say, "Whoa! Where did that come from?"
It's what they mean when they say, "Kill your babies."
However, more to the point is that it was only mentioned by one of the editors (unless that's what the one who complained of "rocky writing" was talking about, which is certainly possible--even nicely poetical passages will seem like over-writing if the surrounding prose is more . . . prosaic). Consider most closely what you hear most often.
And JeanneT: Take heart. Sounds like you're right up there with "today's current crop of authors." Rather than a back-handed compliment, you got a fore-handed insult! (Or something.)
[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited December 21, 2007).]
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
LOL That's one way of looking at it, rickfisher. Thanks. You made me chuckle, and I needed it.
We'll see if I can still stomach it after a few more days.
