Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Book Translations

This is topic Book Translations in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

Does anyone have any experience in reading/writing the same story in different languages?

Meanings often get lost in translation, so I was wondering how it's done (properly). For example, in America a "thumbs up" sign means OK or "it's good". Apparently, in other cultures it could be either offensive or misunderstood. Do you leave that type of gesture in the story or do you "translate" (or omit) it to something that means the same thing?

Also, what about idioms? How do you translate those? Do you just pick a phrase in the other language that has the same effect? (e.g., American English: kick the bucket = to die).

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

In Brasil a thumbs up means the same thing, in fact, it is more frequently given/used than it is here.

Posted by KPKilburn (Member # 6876) on :

From Wikipedia...

"'Thumbs up' traditionally translates as the foulest of gesticular insults in some Middle Eastern countries — the most straightforward interpretation is 'Up yours, pal!' The sign has a similarly pejorative meaning in parts of West Africa, South America (except Brazil), Iran, Greece, and Sardinia, according to Roger E. Axtell's book Gestures: The Do's and Taboos of Body Language Around the World."

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

There's a Mark Twain compilation of his story, "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County," translanted into French, then clawed back from that into English.

A while ago, Frederik Pohl also published a translation of his story, "The Wizard of Pung's Corner," back from Chinese into English.

More mundanely, there are lengthy lists of ocean life in Jules Verne's "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea," that are usually translated in a literal sense, but nearly all of them have precise and specific English equivalents that are rarely in the translated versions.

*****

Alas, I'm kinda blind as far as foreign languages go---six years of French classes left me without the ability to speak the language, and attempts to study this and that on my own gave me little more than a few scattered words.

But because I'm aware of the situation, I try to avoid slang and such, being aware that any word or gesture might (and probably will) mutate in the future.

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

I knew a man from Czechoslovakia who spoke -- in addition to his native Czech -- Russian, English, German and French. He said to me once that he liked to read stories in their original language -- because, as you observe, the nuances won't translate.

Douglas R Hofstadter ("Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid") wrote somewhere that he had one English and one French parent and grew up utterly bilingual, and that he found it easier to think -- let alone communicate -- certain things in one language or the other, depending on the nature of the thing.

I understand the Eskimos have several different words for "snow" which presumably describe different kinds of snow.

And then there are the differences between American and British English which still confuse me from time to time. Here's a guide to the diffs between HP books published in Britain and America:

http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/potter.html

If one is English, the American versions sometimes just don't sound quite right, because of the nuances. Yet, they decided to "translate" the British English into American English, quite rightly in my view, to avoid misunderstandings.

Nuances must be a nuisance to translators.
Pat

[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited November 20, 2007).]

Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :

"For example, in America a "thumbs up" sign means OK or "it's good". Apparently, in other cultures it could be either offensive or misunderstood."

that can get us shot at here in the land of sand and moutains.

anyway.. try translating a book into another that only 5 other people know how to read just for fun.

Rommel Fenrir Wolf II

Posted by SaucyJim (Member # 7110) on :

I actually translated a story I wrote from English into French. Surprisingly things translate over pretty well, though that might have just been this story in particular.

I do know that we call people "chicken" in the USA to say they're cowards; in French, it's not so much different, "poule mouille" (wet hen).

Other languages than that, though, I don't know.

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

Regionally, it's interesting to note differences. In my father's hometown, they say Pop for Soda, and you's ones for y'all. On the other hand, my wife, from update NY, says garbage instead of trash, phrases like 'look it!' instead of 'look!'.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

quote:

In my father's hometown, they say Pop for Soda, and you's ones for y'all.

Interesting combination. I've seen Pop, Soda, and Soda Pop--in Nashville, everything was Coke. I laughed the first time I heard someone ask "What kind of Coke do you want?" To which the reply was "Pepsi."

In New Jersey, it was "You's" or "Yous Guys". But, in my travels, I've also heard "Y'uns" and "You all".

quote:

my wife, from update NY, says garbage instead of trash, phrases like 'look it!' instead of 'look!'.

Recently having been schooled on the subject, I learned that trash is an ambiguous term, rubbish and garbage are not.

Garabage is specifically "discarded animal or vegetable matter".

Rubbish is "worthless, unwanted material that is rejected or thrown out; debris; litter. (The term was based on non-organic substances).

Trash is:

anything worthless, useless, or discarded; rubbish.
foolish or pointless ideas, talk, or writing; nonsense.
a worthless or disreputable person.
such persons collectively.
literary or artistic material of poor or inferior quality.
broken or torn bits, as twigs, splinters, rags, or the like.
something that is broken or lopped off from anything in preparing it for use.
the refuse of sugar cane after the juice has been expressed.
Computers. an icon of a trash can that is used to delete files dragged onto it.
–verb (used with object)
Slang. to destroy, damage, or vandalize, as in anger or protest: The slovenly renters had trashed the house.
to condemn, dismiss, or criticize as worthless: The article trashed several recent best-sellers.
to remove the outer leaves of (a growing sugar cane plant).
to free from superfluous twigs or branches

And "Lookit" was once "Look at" . Can you guess which two words form the cabby-slang "Yassle"? As in "Hey, watch where yer goin', Yassle!"

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited November 20, 2007).]

Posted by Hariolor (Member # 7048) on :

My wife and I are both bi-lingual (Mandarin and English) and have done some freelance translation work, both technical writing and some short non-fiction as well. Some of the biggest, most heated debates we have ended up in have been over whether a translation should strive to be more readable (changing idioms, taking liberties with language-specific grammatical tendencies, etc), or more true to the original language.

It seems that most academics and professional translators have a strong preference for painful accuracy, even when it produces nearly unreadable results.

Personally, I think the best bet is to find a bi-lingual translator with whom you can discuss your work. I've been amazed in studying both Asian and Romance languages at how much across many languages is easily translatable once both sides are clear on what is actually being said!

[This message has been edited by Hariolor (edited November 20, 2007).]

Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :

The most awful misunderstandings can arise horribly easily; my wife's first language is Krio, which is an English-based patois spoken in Sierra Leone. One of our problems in the first year after we married was that we were continually using the same word to mean different things. 'Plenty', for instance, meant 'enough' to me, and 'far too much' to her. We worked it all out in the end, and we're now both comfortably bilingual, but it took time.

[This message has been edited by RobertB (edited November 21, 2007).]

Posted by Igwiz (Member # 6867) on :

I guess, according to one post above, that I would be one of the five that could read it in Krio. Too bad that an actual alphabet hasn't been developed for it like Mende and Limba.

It would be great to read it in Krio. Something like...

Salone, Enti!!

Sierra Leone? Really!!

Mi, ah bin de 1992 te 1994 wi di Pis Co. Usai yu wef commot? Us tribe?

Me, I was there from 1992 to 1994 with the Peace Corps. Where is your wife from? Which tribe is she from?

Ah hope se e appy de na di UK, but wi di war we dun com, ah go tink se e tell God tenki e no de now.

I hope that she is happy there in the UK, but with the war that came, I'm thinking that she tells God thank you that she isn't there now.

Would be happy to talk with you off-line as well. SL is such an amazing country. Hope that all is well there where you are. I have some friends that are still in SL, or have family, and they say its still pretty rough.

BTW, I would love to know if she has found an alternative ingredient to make Tola plasas. I miss it so!

Take care,

Thane

[This message has been edited by Igwiz (edited November 21, 2007).]

Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :

She gets an intermittent supply of tola from various sources; you can buy it in London, at a price, or relatives sometimes smuggle stuff in. Namissa came here in 1995 as a refugee and we met over here; the kids followed abruptly after the ARFC coup in 1997. A neighbour of ours here in Birmingham was heavily involved in plotting the coup.