Also, I think it might be good to talk about WOTF stategies. I know Kathy W posted some ideas on how to place in the contest a few months back on the WOTF blog. Let's post those suggestions here and talk about them.

If anyone here has already placed--or even if you haven't--any thoughts, ideas, stategies? Were you part of a writing group? Who read your story before submission? What improvements, changes, etc. did you make before submission?

Also, if you have submitted and didn't win, why do you think your story (ies) didn't place higher? What have you learned from past submissions? What are you doing differently now?

I'm determined to place in the contest. I know some of you are to. Let's help each other out.

NOTE: If you don't want to share certain things here, maybe you'd be more willing to share them with the, just started, WOTF Group. Once the group gets going, ideas can be shared within the group via e-mail.
 

Go down and look at July 2nd.

http://wotfblog.galaxypress.com/2007_07_01_archive.html

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited September 09, 2007).]
 

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited September 09, 2007).]
 

2. No sign that this is a science fiction or fantasy story by the end of
the first page

What would you say quaifies as a "sign that this is fantasy?"

This will be the last quarter that I expect to qualify since I have a couple of things being published toward the end of the year. But the story I'm thinking of submitting has no magic in it. Would it be disqualified because of that?

Anyone have any thoughts on exactly what that means?

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited September 10, 2007).]
 

That said, in Volume 22, in Games On A Children's Ward, the speculative element didn't seem to enter immediatly(going by memory). Therefore, as has been said, amazing writing might be carry you further. Perhaps the story title can help. Perhaps a past-like setting hints at fantasy.

[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited September 10, 2007).]
 

Beside the point really. I don't know whether to try with this story or not because of the lack of magic. I mean it's clearly not in this reality which makes it speculative in my mind.

I'm just not sure that is how the judges would look at it.

I posted the first 13 lines in the Short Story section which I don't usually, but I'm curious if it looks speculative to anyone who cares to look at it. I have it up for crit at Critters Workshop, but they won't look at it with the same end in view. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited September 10, 2007).]
 

Both light fantasy and alternate reality would both qualify in my mind.
 

I mean where this "Hatrack Groups" and "WOTF Group" are.
 

Also, I wanted to make you aware that publication alone doesn't necessarily disqualify you from the contest. It is three professionally published stories, or one novelette, or one novel. There are lots of people who enter who have published numerous stories in semipro mags, like Strange Horizons or [Apex[/i] that don't count. That's another reason why the competition is so fierce. Some of the entrants are experienced writers, just not strictly professionally published by WOTF rules.

You really should check out the rules again to make sure you're not eligible anymore. I'd hate to see you miss out on the opportunity to win.
 

I am eligible at the moment, but I have doubts about after this quarter. (good doubts that is) *smiles*

Edit: Thanks for bringing that up though. I will double check the rules to be sure.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited September 10, 2007).]
 

quote:

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The G-Bus Man
I mean where this "Hatrack Groups" and "WOTF Group" are.

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http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum2/HTML/000062.html

 

quote:

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www.writersofthefuture.com

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I can't get on this website, is there something wrong with the link? I want to know if I am eligable to enter, of if you have to live in the US.
 

Edited to say: Computers. Niether will display the page. I guess they don't want me to enter!

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited September 11, 2007).]
 

The deadline isn't until Dec 31, near as I can figure, and it happens four times a year. All this activity made me think the deadline was just around the corner! Maybe I'm the only one who likes to wait until the last minute? At any rate, for those of you interested in submitting, there's still plenty of time!
 

The deadline for the quarter after than is Dec. I wish I had decided that far in advance that I would enter so I would have something more suitable than I do.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited September 11, 2007).]
 

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Well, annepin, the next deadline is Sept 30, so it is right around the corner.

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Really? I think I might entire this time. It should be interesting, but I think I'll take a fire-and-forget approach. I'm glad you mentioned that.
 

Ok, no comments.
 

When I got the email saying my story was entered in the fourth quarter, it also said the results would be released in mid-December. I wondered if that was for everyone, or for the finalists and semi-finalists? Are the ones that are knocked out earlier sent rejections so they can start subbing the story or everyone finds out all at once, or what? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 11, 2007).]
 

It varies. For instance, for my Q1 story that I sent last December, I didn't find out I was a semifinalist until the last week of April. For my Q2 story that I sent in the last week of March, I got the honorable mention notice in late June--but since they posted the names of the finalists and semifinalists on the blog in early June, I knew I wasn't among them.
 

Be aware, that even though the last two quarters have had the results come back within this time frame, there have been many more when it took much longer. Sometimes, the deadline for the next quarter will come and go before anyone finds out anything about the previous quarter.

Good luck to everyone in the latest quarter!
 

I'm not sure I'd agree. It seems to me that you should only submit to markets that are okay with simultaneous submissions because part of winning the contest is publication in the anthology. And then it's even sketchy because who says the contest is okay with them?
 

I'm not sure what SWMBO is in this context, however. Baen's accepts simsubs. That doesn't mean it's all right with WotF though.

And I don't know that Baen would be all right with a story they published being in an anthology. It depends on what rights they normally buy, which I don't recall. If you do a simsub and it is accepted, you are expected to withdraw it from other markets.

If anyone has anything showing that simsubs are ok with WotF, that would be nice to know.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 12, 2007).]
 

quote:

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1. No entry fee is required, and all rights in the story remain the property of the author. All types of science fiction, fantasy and dark fantasy are welcome.

2. All entries must be original works, in English. Plagiarism, which includes the use of third-party poetry, song lyrics, characters or another person's universe, without written permission will result in disqualification. Excessive violence or sex, determined by the judges, will result in disqualification. Entries may not have been previously published in professional media.

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The first rule makes it clear that all rights remain with the author. Therefor, you could win the contest, and then have the story published elsewhere, but not the reverse. It has happened where a winner in the contest has done that, but by doing so you would be robbing yourself of being published in the yearly WOTF anthology, and no market pays as well for a short story than WOTF.

The second rule makes it clear that if you had simultaneous submissions, and it was accepted by a market other than WOTF and sold to them, then you would automatically make yourself ineligible to win with that story, since it would become a previously published work.

So, while you could do simultaneous submissions, if the other market accepted the story and wanted to buy it, you would have to make a decision which market to sell it to. You can't win in WOTF with the same story published elsewhere.

[This message has been edited by luapc (edited October 13, 2007).]
 

If Kathleen has ever made a post regarding WotF rules, I've never seen it and, much as I respect her, I don't consider her the ultimate authority on them. However, I do think she would be careful before she posted anything on the subject.

I believe that luapc is correct on the rules of the contest. I will not be subbing the story until I know the results. Generally speaking, when I sub a story somewhere that doesn't mention simsubs, I make the assumption that means you shouldn't do them. Since they aren't mentioned in the rules, I assume they aren't a good idea. I think luapc's explanation of the rules is probably spot on.

Edit: While I freely admit my chances of winning are so small as to be miniscule, I don't want to reduce that to nil.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 13, 2007).]
 

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IB, I am aware what SWMBO stands for, just had no idea who meg was talking about in the context of WotF. I thought she was talking about a WotF judge or official.

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Sheesh. I was just trying to help.

KDW informed someone--in an earlier thread--that you can submit elsewhere. I tried hunting it down for you, but I can't remember what the name of the thread was.

PS - as to SWMBO, I haven't seen any other description fitting this acronym. Anywhere.
 

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I apologize.

If she has discussed this, I haven't seen it. It looks as though a simsub wouldn't exactly be against the rules, but might be a problem if it is accepted elsewhere. I won't take the chance on it on the extraordinarily slim chance that Mr. Card would like my female protag. *falls down laughing*

Actually, I have no idea how the judging works (and whether all the judges have to like the winner) except that he is one of the judge.

Edit: I've never seen another meaning of the acronym either. I don't know how widely it's used, but I have seen it occacionally.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 13, 2007).]
 

He also told me that there had been a few winners who had sold their stories to a magazine after submitting to WotF, and that they had still published the stories in the anthology, except for the one winner who had decided not to be published in the WRITERS OF THE FUTURE anthology, but that was the only one.

I wondered about that at the time, because they purchased First World Serial Rights to my story (instead of First World Anthology Rights as I would have expected), and those are the rights usually purchased by magazines, so they would have had to purchase second serial rights from the authors who had sold their stories elsewhere.

I don't know if they changed the policy now that K. D. Wentworth is the first judge and anthology editor, but they haven't changed the official rules. I can ask her, if you like.

PS--if I have any say in the matter, I'd prefer SHE to SWMBO. <shrug>
 

If you could check on that, I'd sure appreciate it. If you sold something after submitting it, my experience is that there is a good chance it wouldn't actually appear until after the winners were declared anyway, but the subject of rights seems to be a problem.

Edit: And thanks very much for offering to check on it. And for the clarification on your own preference, although I think I'll probably stick with calling you by name if you don't mind.

I would have assumed WotF would buy anthology rights, but some magazines and ezines want those rights for anthologies too, so I'm really hesitant on the whole thing.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 14, 2007).]
 

By the way, "She Who Must Be Obeyed" is the full title/name of the title character in H. Rider Haggard's old novel, SHE. So it all goes together.

I'm fine with people addressing me by my real name. I was just saying that I prefer SHE to SWMBO (for those who want to abbreviate She Who Must Be Obeyed).
 

Thanks again for checking on the contest situation.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 17, 2007).]
 

quote:

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The simultaneous submission issue has not come up since I took over Coordinating Judge, but I think they would not be okay with it. It's very important to them that the stories appear in print for the first time in the anthology.

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So I was wrong, and I apologize.
 

BTW, it hasn't sunk in yet. Of course, there's only a 37% chance that my story will place, but at least, I've met one of my writing goals: getting past the first reader!
 

I almost forgot to add, I only let two people see this. My wife and Paul(luapc). Without his feedback the story wouldn't have gotten as far as it did.
 

Edit: Needless to say I feel very sorry for myself not making it that far, but I'm sure your story is great. Way to go.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 14, 2007).]
 

I think that if I can get this far after 4 years, anyone can if they make it thier primary writing goal. The story took a lot of effort. I fussed over it like a mother fussing over a child's first day in school. And, of course, it hasn't placed yet. Now I worry what sort of grade my child will come home with...

 

I've been writing for about four years, since '03. I floundered around on a rough novel, got halfway through a revision, and then decided to heed the advice that it's best to learn how to craft a short story/novelette first. If I couldn't do that, how could I hope to write a publishable novel?

Thus, I've been entering for two years. In '05, I entered for the first time. It was more of a try-it-and-see. The story came back a quarterfinalist. I tried again six months later and that came back a quarterfinalist.

This past year I've entered 3 times. In the first quarter, my story was a semifinalist. The second time an honorable mention(aka quarterfinalist).

So as a goal, it grew on me, and--I haven't won yet. The jury is still out on that. So I can't talk as though I'm coming down from the Mount with the ten writing commandments. But I've fulfilled the goal in being a finalist and getting through the first reader. If it doesn't win, my next goal should be to not only be a finalist, but win first, second, or third place.

I've read Volume 22 & 23 all the way through, and a handful of stories from Volume 21. But to be honest, when I have a book in my hands, I'm not in analyze mode. I'm in enjoyment mode. I haven't learned to condition myself to study the text as a writer. As a reader, of course, I've all sorts of opinions. I can only take away a lesson in the places where my inner reader and inner writer intersect.

[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited November 14, 2007).]
 

quote:

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then decided to heed the advice that it's best to learn how to craft a short story/novelette first. If I couldn't do that, how could I hope to write a publishable novel?

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Edit: Hey, out of curiosity, do they bother notifying the losers in any way?

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 14, 2007).]
 

Of course, the post office is not always reliable. Neither rain nor snow--but mistakes are made. Of course, even emails from Grandma get lost in the junk folder.

The Semifinalists were just announced:
http://wotfblog.galaxypress.com/2007/11/semi-finalists-announced.html

[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited November 14, 2007).]
 

For quite a while, I haven't been able to write a true short story (that is where 250*manuscript_pagecount <= 7500). No matter how hard I try, I end up with a novelette.

To be sure, there is a gulf between short stories and novels, however, in a shorter work, the fundamentals of storytelling/writing are all there, it just has to be lean and mean. Fewer characters. Few subplots--if any. No Jordan-like density of setting. One day, I hope the bridge the gap. Of course, I've a lot to learn in order to do so.
 

But this time, I really think my MS got lost in the INBOUND mail because I never heard confirmation on receipt of MS (which I received the last time I entered, about 17 days after I had sent the MS.) Sniff sniff. I could have been a contender.

That's OK. Anyone from Hatrack in the semi-finalist list? If so, congrats!! It's a great contest. I'm excited about my next quarter entry. Once Nano is done, it's my primary project for December. I'm counting on all the other writers out there being too busy with holiday stuff to submit, so my story will naturally rise to the top. Right?