Hatrack River Writers Workshop: To Write, or just Sell?

This is topic To Write, or just Sell? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by The G-Bus Man (Member # 6019) on :

I've been trying to work on my first novella, but I've just been getting to much of life's interferences, and well I'm starting to question whether or not my heart's really into it anymore. I really want to see some of these ideas come to fruition, but I'm wondering if I have the ability anymore.

I've been thinking about selling my ideas to someone who would write them for "a piece of the action" as they say. Is this really an option or not?

Posted by Matt Lust (Member # 3031) on :

Robert Sawyer says it best on his website Sawyer to beginning writers

quote:

I will not collaborate with you; writing fiction is a solitary profession, and, frankly, if you're a beginner, you've got nothing to bring to the table, anyway. Ideas are a dime a dozen; if I stopped having ideas today, I'd still have enough not-yet-used ones to continue writing for the rest of my life. The same thing is true for all professional writers.

[This message has been edited by Matt Lust (edited August 11, 2007).]

Posted by HauntedShirley (Member # 5974) on :

Without knowing what form your ideas would take, my spontaneous response to this is, I doubt that this is a realistic option.

In my experience, writers (and other creative types)have truckloads of ideas, new ones stacking up every day. The part you (very occasionally) get paid for is the finished product.

Do you mean that you have an outline, a full first draft or just a "pitch"?

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

I think you're hitting what James Scott Bell calls "The Wall." It can happen in any lengthy work, usually about 25% through a novel, sometimes further into a novella. It's more rare in short stories, of course. For me, I feel like what I'm writing is junk, it's not that good, not original, clunky, awkward, or just plain retarded.

The best cure I've found is to just push through it. I force myself to take a bit of a break, if I feel I need it. Maybe a day or two, and I don't think about writing. Then (usually on a Saturday), I make myself sit down and write a few thousand words. Usually, I feel better. If not--I start taking a critical look at my WiP and see if I'm writing the wrong thing.

As for selling ideas, it'll never happen. I wouldn't even pay a dime for a dozen ideas. As Matt said, I'll never write enough to use up all my own ideas.

Now, if Steven King wanted to sell me a notebook full of unused ideas, that would be a different matter. I'd pay quite a bit just for the enjoyment of flipping through it, honestly.

Posted by Matt Lust (Member # 3031) on :

Those weren't my words. I'm brutally honest but I'm not mean and I'm not an established professional writer.

Those words are actually Sawyer's words. I'm editing the post to show the words in quotes.

[This message has been edited by Matt Lust (edited August 11, 2007).]

Posted by Alethea Kontis (Member # 3748) on :

Well, Matt, with a name like mine I can't help but be honest...and sometimes you have to be mean.

It IS tough. Suck it up. Buckle down. And as my handy-dandy post-it here informs me daily: Shut Up and Write!

And I mean that with all the love in the world.
Alethea

Posted by Lynda (Member # 3574) on :

Breaking through that wall can be tough, but the rewards are great once you get there. Something that works for me at times (I write novels, not novellas) is to write a scene that I've already worked out fairly well in my head, that's farther ahead than the place where I'm stuck. Once I have that scene in place, then I go back to the "stuck" place and write my way to the finished scene that's farther ahead. Try it, it might work for you too.

Lynda

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

Well said, Lynda. And good idea.

Posted by The G-Bus Man (Member # 6019) on :

quote:
The best cure I've found is to just push through it. I force myself to take a bit of a break, if I feel I need it. Maybe a day or two, and I don't think about writing. Then (usually on a Saturday), I make myself sit down and write a few thousand words. Usually, I feel better. If not--I start taking a critical look at my WiP and see if I'm writing the wrong thing.

That's good advice, but what I'm talking about is external factors which are actively working against me (all the various life's pressures and such).

Oh, and I should add, that this is more than just a "pitch" or even an outline, but not a finished full draft - right now I'm at about 6,000 words and, according to MS Word, 20 "novel"-sized pages.

[This message has been edited by The G-Bus Man (edited August 11, 2007).]

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

Some people find that having a per day word goal helps them reach some kind of writing goals. I don't do that myself, I write in spurts, but that works for me, and I'm not yet selling professionally - I will put more rigor around my writing when I'm selling on a regular basis.

(I'm also busy w/life and the rest of it, stay at home mom to two.)

But others find that helps. If life is tricky, maybe just scheduling some writing times on Monday, Wedsnesday, and Fridays for 1 hr (some people do by blocks of time instead of word goals) or something small, like 100 words/day. Heck, I could write 100 words in a post. (I type 80 WPM...it wouldn't take me very long. LOL)

Anyway, just some ideas.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

I write because I can't not. I can go so long without actually putting things on paper, but then it starts to bust out in other ways, which can end up being really embarrassing - like the making my own furniture phase, which still makes me cringe everytime a look at the log shelfing unit in the living room. I don't do a word count, and i don't try to force it, it just comes pretty regular, and the more I do it, the more I do it. Weird?

Posted by The G-Bus Man (Member # 6019) on :

[quote]I type 80 WPM...it wouldn't take me very long. LOL[/qupte]

Actually (and I don't mean to brag) but so do I

But I guess to get to what I was trying to get:

How do you deal with "life's interferences?" Especially a less-than-supportive family who tends to demand a lot of other things from you?

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

quote:
How do you deal with "life's interferences?" Especially a less-than-supportive family who tends to demand a lot of other things from you?

I won't pretend to know about your family life. That's a decision you have to make, taking their feelings into consideration.

I don't think I'm familiar with your writing off the top of my head, but I think it would be a shame to see someone forced to give up a dream. You do sound like you enjoy the craft. And if you are good, so much the worse.

Can you even slip in an hour a day, or a couple hours on weekends to write? At the speed you type, that could still be 1,000 words per day--which many writers consider a good pace.

How much do you love writing? Do you love it enough to get up 30 or 60 minutes early every day and write? Or maybe 2 or 3 hours early on a weekend or two to write?

Currently, I work full time, I attend school full time, I have a family and I have to care for elderly parents--getting up early and staying up late are all I can do. Yet, I do know the difference is I have supportive friends and family, and that makes a big difference.

Like I said, it's your life so it's your call. These are actually many of the thoughts I applied to myself when I had to make a similar decision, so I thought I would share them.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

I have those too ("life's interferences") - they're almost 6 and 3 and a half.

I hope you didn't take the typing speed to mean anything. There are plenty of people who type 80 WPM or more (many writers, I'm sure) - my point was just that with a fast speed and ideas flowing, you can get a LOT of writing done in a short period of time. It doesn't have to be this big long thing.

I have a feeling that you're stuck because you're stuck. I find that when I'm less inspired by the piece I'm working on, I find all kinds of excuses for not working on it. Your mileage may vary, but if I really am intrigued by something, there are scraps of paper littering my purse and car with notes about it, ideas bubbling in my head at all times, and 5 and 10 minutes stolen at the computer, sometimes standing up, leaning over the keyboard, just trying to get the ideas down. Heck, the idea even shows up in my dreams! (notepad + pen by the bed helps.)

FWIW, my husband thinks this is just a charming phase I'm going through. He nods and feigns attention when I tell him about a project, a funny twist to a story, or ask his help in naming something. Mostly he can't be bothered. It's a little annoying, to be honest, but the more I write, the more he at least TOLERATES it. Make any sense? He sees that its important to me, that I'm taking it seriously (and not just writing, but reading a ton of books about the craft. Today he found his old college copy of Strunk and White and tossed it to me. That was nice, I had misplaced mine!)

When do I write? Mostly when he's not around. I am a night owl. It all comes together for me at night, though truthfully, I would also like to be able to write in the morning, as that's when I feel most relaxed and less sleepy. Maybe when the kids are both in school. <shrug>

Are you sure you're not just burned out on your current project? Why not try giving it a rest and trying out some of the writing exercises here at Hatrack or writing a short (2000 words is a nice length) story about a subject that interests you? I find all kinds of ideas in the "science and technology" blurbs in newsmagazines and on cnn.com.

And, in case no one has mentioned it before, if you like to write, you should make time for reading too. Reading helps me find ideas, learn about the craft (reading novels, not just books about writing) and fills the hopper in my brain full of words...

Posted by HauntedShirley (Member # 5974) on :

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/strategies.html

Maybe some of these strategies could help. Every one has some time management issues. Good luck on mastering yours!

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

Why would anyone want to buy your ideas for a piece of your action if they can use their own ideas and have all the action?

As for life's challenges, if anybody has an excuse to quit writing, it's me. I won't go into the details, but a lot of life events occurred since December 06. It involves 3 pre-teen kids that constantly fight, an 88-year-old woman who can't walk or dress herself or clean herself after using the facilities. It involves same woman breaking hip. It involves 5 surgeries in the 8 months, and on 5 different family members, including me. It involves a great deal of paperwork with state and federal agencies. It involves an incredibly stressful problem at work that won't go away and has me working some 12-hour days salaried (ie, no overtime pay). It involves helping with honors homework for more than one child for as much as three hours in a single evening. It involves entire evenings lost to volunteer work.

During all that, I also wrote a 115,000-word novel, 5 short stories, and a screenplay outline. I'm not happy with the output. It's under half what it should be. I spent far too much time dealing with other people's problems and had only minimal time to write, usually after everyone else was in bed (and I get up at 5:00am).

If you really want to write, you'll make time. If you don't really want to write, you'll make excuses.

Posted by wrenbird (Member # 3245) on :

I sure know how you feel. In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find one writer who doesn't. Life gets in the way and the story drags, and one begins to wonder if it's worth the effort required to carve out time to write. I say, just take it slow. Write as much or as little as you like. Just let yourself have fun with it.

Also, as a minor sidenote, KayTi, I think you are my writer-twin. Your post made me chuckle. I too write mainly at night, after the kids go down and when my DH is not around. And I know EXACTLY what you mean about your husband, BTW.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

KayTi, the love of my life is a roofer (well, until his heart started acting up). He thinks I am completely crazy, but humors me. And I think Chuck and his life, and his friends really help keep me grounded. If it wasn't for him, i'd live on tuna sandwiches and thrift store books, and know nothing about all the little details of life that give fiction so much more heft and vigor. Besides, if he was a writer too, he might try to steal my ideas. LOL

And for all you other guys, speaking as an OLD woman, those interferences are often what life is all about. Take notes, you may need em later!

[This message has been edited by debhoag (edited August 12, 2007).]

Posted by HauntedShirley (Member # 5974) on :

That is so true. Every part of a person's life can feed the "writer" in some way.

For what it's worth, a friend of mine began her writing career at age 59 after a lifetime of caring for others.

My mother started painting in her sixties and produced quite a large body of work. As long as you live and breathe, it ain't too late.

Also for what it's worth, I got no respect or support for my "dream" until I sat the husband down and made it clear what writing meant to me. He still doesn't really get it, but he gives it a sort of grudging respect, which is enough.

Posted by Alethea Kontis (Member # 3748) on :

Och, never wish that you love of your life was a writer too.
You have to take turns being the Diva.

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

I just wish she was a reader.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

Hear, hear, Spaceman.

Mine read one (my most awful work) after much pestering, and is now refusing to read another blinking thing I wrote. Frustrating.

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

yeah, chuck too, but I haven't had to change a tire or check my oil or lift a piece of furniture since i met him. i would much rather write than lift furniture. And I have you guys to read! Unless you'd like to check my oil

Life's a trade-off.

[This message has been edited by debhoag (edited August 12, 2007).]

Posted by Balthasar (Member # 5399) on :

There's a lot of good stuff here, but let me add this.

I've found that I work best when I work by a timer, not by a daily quota. I set a kitchen timer for an hour and work until it goes off, then I'm done. This has been valuable for me because it completely frees me for any kind of goal that seems insurmountable. I can always find a free hour during the day. It might mean I have to cut out the movie I was planning to watch, or the extra reading I was hoping to get done, but I can always find that hour. Even when I sit down at 10 at night, I know that I'll be finished at 11, regardless of how much I write.

Another thing that keeps me motivated is that every day I write I put a capital W on a calendar. If I write for 10, I find that I want to write just so I can put a W on the day. W's make me happy; blank spaces make me sad. It's a good mental trick.

But most of all, what Spaceman said is true: IF YOU WANT TO WRITE, YOU WILL FIND TIME TO DO IT.

Try writing in a notebook. Take it with you wherever you go. Make a point to write at least a page a day. You might be surprised at how much you produce.

Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :

This is just an echo but, I have found in my life that a person finds time for the things they love. Unfortunately sometimes that doesn't include the things one should love. Don't you know a person that will stop everything for the NBA finals but is too busy to attend their child's game. I know one family that couldn't afford to get their son glasses but bought a big-screen with the full cable package and went to Hawaii once a year. I'm not saying drop your family, that wouldn't help. Your problem is a writing problem and no other kind of solution will work. Anybody who would buy your ideas is an idiot and would probably do a far worse job than you should.
This reminds me of Emma Watson on why she decided to do the last two Harry Potter films. She just realized that it would kill her to see someone else delivering her lines.
You still have the ability, it will be there when you reach for it again.